Tavern on the Meta

Gimby

... you're on Candid Camera! RIP Dom DeLuise.

Lovely, right? ;)

@Hitodama I think you might be more into that show than I am... :)

@Journeyman @Tink are you allowing the usage of the term "Sack Exchange" referring to the "Getting Shogged" meme? (aka what you think of this edit war?) I'll accept any decision.

Andras Deak

2:04 PM

heh

After all, being "Sacked" is dry fact.

So it fits just that meme.

Andras Deak

[humor] is only allowed when it's in a blog title. You know, the good kind of top-down humor.

hehe

@GeorgeStocker this probably holds for SO. Not so much for smaller SE communities

@ShadowTheBurningWizard I'd ask @Glorfindel. It's his post, after all. I'd do whatever he prefers.

Hitodama

2:07 PM

@terdon in this case is not even about the ponies. Just the song.

@terdon he started it...

Hitodama

Alan's Vision from The Amazing World of Gumball also comes to mind...

@ShadowTheBurningWizard no particular mood to deal with it for now

@ShadowTheBurningWizard Yes, but it might have been a typo

@terdon no, no way it's a typo.

@JourneymanGeek fair enough. waiting for parrot

2:14 PM

@ShadowTheBurningWizard That's why I'd ask him. If it isn't, it should stay. If it is, he can choose to keep it.

@terdon but people keep removing it.

That's the problem, and the reason I pinged mods.

@Anton hey, welcome back to Tavern! :)

oh, I just saw what happened in the last day.

This looks pretty bad.

@bjb568 which part?

@ShadowTheBurningWizard yes

Firing Shog and Robert Carataino.

Anton Menshov

2:17 PM

@ShadowTheBurningWizard good morning :) if you can call it "good" ...and "morning"

@ShadowTheBurningWizard Here is the reference:

New York Sack Exchange

The New York Sack Exchange were the front four defensive line of the American football team New York Jets of the National Football League during the early 1980s. The line consisted of Mark Gastineau, Joe Klecko, Marty Lyons and Abdul Salaam. == Origins == In 1981, a fan by the name of Dan O'Connor submitted the "New York Sack Exchange" name to a pre-season contest held by The Jet Report, a team magazine. Jets public relations director Frank Ramos used the nickname in a press release and it was soon picked up by the media. All four members of the Sack Exchange were drafted by the Jets in the 1970s...

@AntonMenshov yeah, neither is correct. :/

Glorfindel

@terdon thanks for the ping. I'd prefer to keep the 'joke' (as in 'getting sacked', never heard of the NY Sack Exchange) and explained so in a comment, but at this point I don't think I even care anymore.

@Rob I.... don't think so.

Oh, and I was right. lol

@Glorfindel news seems to be hitting everyone hard it seems

2:21 PM

Apparently not. 🐴👅

@bjb568 yes, this is bad

rene

Dutch humor is under appreciated nowadays ...

@Glorfindel Fair enough. Although it means that Shadow was right. Again. This is getting annoying...

;)

LOL

When Shadow is right, it means things go wrong.

That. Or that the sun is on your left.

2:22 PM

No, you're on my left

Oh, now on the right

Anton Menshov

@ShadowTheBurningWizard when SE lawyers get involved – it means things went, go, and will continue going wrong. Shadow being right is not a certain prediction.

it's bad enough that it's not even clear if we should complain or not

it doesn't look like complaining changes anything. We had half a thousand posts about monica and the only thing that got them to grudgingly relent was when we put up 20 grand too

Clearly the sun is out of the screen, because rene points at it.

user316129

In an ironic twist of fate, SE has managed to unite the community

On this, we don't really have grounds to complain, anyway. It's a private company, they can do what they like with their employees. We, on the other hand, are free to draw our conclusions about that company based on how they treat their employees.

2:26 PM

Sack Exchange

@Rob are they all in the line to the restrooms?

user316129

@terdon well said.

World record pillow fight.

I found Danny in there!

@terdon I do think we have grounds to complain. We're not just their customers, we're also their volunteers

We deserve a voice as real stakeholders. And stakeholders can complain when a company frantically stabs itself in the chest

2:31 PM

@ShadowTheBurningWizard That's nothing, I found Wally!

@Magisch meh

I don't care that they can legally do this. They don't get a moral pass from me because "duh corporations are profit focused". No.

Personally, I never really bought that argument. We dont' "deserve" it, we were promised it and mislead into believing they felt we were stakeholders. They clearly don't.

But either way, when it comes to such internal matters, we don't get a say. All we can do is be more disgusted by the company and vote with our feet.

Aren't they making a mistake even from a purely profit-centric perspective?

Fans launch masses of toilet roll at football pitch

@ShadowTheBurningWizard If you need to use the restroom you have two hands, and no paper:

►

Alienating the people who give your site value seems clearly negative in the long term.

2:34 PM

@terdon we can also vote with our voice. word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool but that blade cuts both ways.

Hitodama

certainly nobody who cares about my opinion will give them another cent

@Magisch indeed.

@terdon no no, it's Clippy!

That's that silly microsoft thing, right?

I remember it.

2:36 PM

@Rob or maybe they all brought the paper from home?

@terdon "that silly microsoft thing"..... ROFL.... hehehe... haha.... dies laughing

:-D

Sorry, I haven't been a Windows user since around 1998.

No, 99.

Clippy hasn't aged a bit

Neither a byte.

argh!

OK, that was actually good. Awful. But good.

PM 2Ring

@bjb568 In the long run. But how long is that? There's a lot of great info on the network. Sure, it's getting diluted by the endless flood of rubbish questions and poor quality answers. But that could take several years before it has a noticeable impact on the network's overall reputation for quality.

@PM2Ring you're underestimating the work and coordination it takes to keep SO going

Gimby

2:40 PM

I'm not so sure really, I have never really gotten an idea of how many people use the site in complete silence and will likely be completely oblivious to and uncaring about any of this.

For now, they hqve quite a large database of Q&A to rely on without putting too much work towards new content, and get tons of ad revenue

internet places can fade quickly. If a viable competitor springs up, it just now became a lot more likely it'll reach critical mass. Then they only need to import legacy content and offer a better community policy (even none would be better right about now) and SE goes the way of myspace in the span of a couple months

We can hope so.

@Gimby most people, that's why SE can allow itself such actions

2:41 PM

The competitor would have to scrape the current DB, in order to be at the very least a competitor.

Also hi

@Elcan there's a data dump

@Elcan Which is quite possible.

@Elcan hey

and the content is CC licensed

user316129

@Magisch I know I sound like a broaken record... "Tech Republic"

2:42 PM

Nobody and nothing stops a competitor from taking all of SOs relevant content right now.

@Rob why the duck sits on Andrew?

user316129

@Magisch which is why they're trying to retrofit licencing

Makes me wonder if they will someday try to un-CC the content, as illegal as it is

user316129

apply retroactively, I mean

Cuz he's an egg

2:43 PM

It seems that Joel and Jeff were wiser then they thought when they agreed on that fundamental design principle. Even though it will be their undoing, it is the best for people.

user316129

@Elcan I'm sure they will try

@Magisch wouldn't even need legacy content

They illegally relicensed to 4.0 without any legal consequence

So I doubt un-CCing will have any legal consequence

@MetaAndrewT. how dare you not being pingable? I see where you went! point upwards :D

all the silent users care about 1) answers to their questions and 2) nothing else. If a mass exodus of experts means {newplace} is now the easiest way to do that, they all go that way

2:44 PM

Just need to gank a few good devs, community team and funding. And grow slower

platforms keep deluding themselves into thinking they're irreplaceable.

The real problems will arise once the site is big, and needs money. It may just follow SE's path

Worst case, ask for donations, like Wikipedia does.

I'm sure many people will give money.

George Stocker

@Elcan you can only enforce civil laws by suing. That's how you enforce it. So software licensing isn't as much "this is illegal or that is legal", its "what are you willing to go to court over." If you aren't willing to go to court to enforce licensing, then anything they do is legal.

If asked nicely. But too late for that to SE, these days nobody will give them a cent, probably. I'd sure not give.

George Stocker

2:47 PM

and as they say, a law is only as good as its enforcement.

Wikipedia is following a path similar to SE, not sure if it should be an example

eh, wikipedia somewhat listens

JAD

@Elcan I think that depends. Once/if they were to start trying to enforce that "illegal" new license they might start to run into trouble.

@GeorgeStocker I doubt most people would go to court over messages on a website

Sadly

the community sanctioned them and took away their partial ban powers recently

JAD

2:48 PM

The reason they got away with it right now is that nobody cares enough to sue them.

PM 2Ring

@Magisch Perhaps. I don't know all of SO. Just the Python tag, which is a fairly popular tag. I know the quality there is dropping, and many of the old-time experts no longer contribute answers, or do so only rarely. I used to enjoy assisting the new answerers. But these days, I don't have much motivation for that.

Merely reading a random sample of the new Python Q&As can be depressing. But the helpdesk-oriented newbies are oblivious to that stuff. And the smart people with reasonable search skills are mostly able to find existing answers, despite the rubbish.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowTheBurningWizard IMO, it's not so much fun... it reminds a bit of how children would change your name slightly to mean something mean and then call you that...

@PM2Ring eh - I often find solutions to prickly problems in old SU posts