Tavern on the Meta

try not to throw any more fuel on if you don't have to

that is not to say you should self censor, just a consideration

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

we really don't need twenty links to that post in the transcript

We all read meta.

PM 2Ring

Ok, so it's not all rainbows & unicorns. But it's a big step in the right direction. I just wish people could be responding a little more positively, rather than reinforcing Sara's view that MSE is a toxic hellhole. :(

@PM2Ring it is all legal stuff if you ask me.

PM 2Ring

@rene Sure. But it's a favorable outcome. If it went to court, it could've dragged on for ages, cost Monica more money than she could raise or afford, and there was definitely no certainty that she'd win. So I'm reasonably ok with this. However, SI Inc should give her back her diamonds, no strings attached. And they really should make some prominent public announcements (off the SE network) to counteract the negative stuff that happened on The Register.

7:15 PM

yeah, reinstatement is still a thing.

The only thing Monica wouldn't be able to pay off the court is because SE is actively and successfully censoring every link to the fund

In an ideal world they'd give her her diamonds back, follow up with a second, more personal apology and discuss changes in management and process with specifics and firm commitments to avoid a repeat

And I mean give back as in "We messed up, and we'll be correcting that by actually undoing our messed up action. No process since the removal was out of process also"

> No further donations are needed. Thank you everybody for your support!

To me it reads "I've had enough threats from SE. I can't go on, and I'm not even allowed to say it's a loss for me"

user400654

meh

there's not enough information to really say it's x or y

and agreement was reached, and now we move forward

7:22 PM

@JohnDvorak In their defense, they've clearly not been doing that. Only a few links have been removed. They haven't been actively searching for them.

This mess was started by not following due process in removal. They're not now going to bypass the process for reinstatement at this point.

Well, considering the the "process" is quite literally asking the same people to look at the same data and come to a different conclusion, calling it a process might be a bit too generous.

but that process presumes that process was followed to cause the situation it seeks to remedy, which it was in this case not.

I don't blame Monica for not wanting to legitimize that by submitting to it.

Well... not necessarily the same people.

But yeah.

7:24 PM

the new process does read like a star chamber

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Schrödinger process?

no protection against railroading et al, but that was pointed out by 80+ answers in the feedback post and nothing was changed on the process front

Also that. The process per se has .. many flaws.

Ṁűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ

Is StackOverflow sabotaging itself?

@rene Einstein. He's the one who defined madness as doing the same thing and expecting different results.

7:25 PM

Ha!

@Tinkeringbell hi, the comments on that new post are getting really bad, attacking Sara as a scapegoat—might want to delete some? Thanks

Mad Scientist

@terdon-stopharmingMonica Submitting to the reinstatement process and then failing it would undo some of the benefit of the public statement. It would essentially be a backdoor to SE implying "still a bigot" by not allowing the reinstatement

What is wrong with a post that indicates the company is attempting to fix things? People who downvote this clearly don’t want to ever have a solution. — Stormblessed 1 min ago

@Stormblessed *cough* <insert Null message here> *cough*

Ṁűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩ ᛗ

she is sendinger her diamond to dev/null

7:27 PM

The reinstatement process makes sense for mods who chose to step down. But if you've had your diamond removed by "employees" and then will have these same, unspecified employees look at the very same data they had originally when they decided to demod you, I don't see why anyone would bother.

@Mithical huh? I’m confused sorry

@MadScientist that too

@Stormblessed it's a statement by their lawyers. I'm not that cynical (yet) but you could credibly see this as them being dragged by their lawyers to post it.

@Ṁűỻịgǻṇạcểơửṩᛗ What’s dev/null?

in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jul 25 at 19:38, by Null

@Stormblessed Is there something wrong with your flag button?

7:28 PM

Oh sorry mobile is glitchy :-/

I understand either reaction to this tbh

Disagreed. If you stepped down voluntarily, you should be able to rejoin at any time without approval, IMO

PM 2Ring

For Monica to submit to the reinstatement process is basically admitting that the removal of her diamonds in the 1st place was legitimate. But I suppose the mod agreement does say that SE reserves the right to de-mod someone if they believe it's necessary. OTOH, if she did apply for reinstatement, I can't imagine any sane person blocking the reinstatement.

As is current mods can hard veto any reinstatement

that has been used 3 times already iirc