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Rob
Rob
1:14 AM
@PM2Ring I yam what I yam
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
1:48 AM
@Rob :) Popeye cartoons on TV were still popular when I was a kid. I was never a big fan, but I do like spinach.
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
2:32 AM
downvote-pls needs -3 score to allow 20k+ users to vote to delete: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/339220/…
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
2:47 AM
oops
missed that one
Sorry, was distracted with other things
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
3:35 AM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog meta.stackexchange.com/questions/125268/…
inference from here + observation
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
@JourneymanGeek I was the one who wrote that bullet (which is also quoted in the question), and I didn't have all the information, so I wrote it so it could be interpreted both ways.
I'd like to know which interpretation is correct, so I can clarify that bullet.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
So - the suspension applied to the new account is the remaining time from the old account
That much I can confirm off the top of my head
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
@JourneymanGeek Still - there are two ways to interpret that; see my edits to the question
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog lets say...
I suspend my evil twin stayingman nerd for a month
he deletes his account after a week
waits a week
then comes back as "No, I am not a cat in a dog mask'
The suspension on the account will be a month - 2 weeks
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Okay, I guess you're saying the second interpretation is correct. Could you please confirm this with evidence?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
3:40 AM
so if he comes back after the suspension on the dead account expires, he shoould be fine
I'm not suspending aibobot to test
So no
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Isn't there a "remainder of unserved suspension applied" raised when such a thing happens? Can't you look to that for a past case, rather than making a new case?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
errrrr
I'd have to remember a specific user who did that
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
I guess the main ambiguity is whether or not the user is considered "serving" the suspension while their account is deleted
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
They are
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Well, in any case, I've gone ahead and edited the FAQ bullet to state that this is the case.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
3:55 AM
I got my amusement. Trying to decide between being helpful and the peer pressure badge ;p
k, no peer pressure badge after that edit
 
 
1 hour later…
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
5:23 AM
Speaking of GoFundMe campaigns, Yvette Colomb is running another one to raise funds to keep her horses healthy.
2
 
 
2 hours later…
rene
rene
7:04 AM
They could just suspend users who put in such links. As suspension reduces a user's rep to 1, and 10 rep is required for any links to render, this has the side effect of removing (formatted) links. — Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog yesterday
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog with that ^ comment you made my day. Thanks for that.
I find that incredibly funny.
 
Shadow The Princess Wizard
Shadow The Princess Wizard
7:44 AM
Wolf don't eat the parrot!
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
7:56 AM
Language!
 
mag
mag
@motosubatsu :/ really?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@motosubatsu so... I saw that post
here's the thing. No matter how mad we are at specific staff members, this is literally the reaction folks who don't want us want
LOOK! META IS TOXIC!
It dosen't help
I'm mad too. Dosen't mean we need to sink to that level.
 
Shadow The Princess Wizard
Shadow The Princess Wizard
didn't see :/
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
8:19 AM
@JourneymanGeek except I have no personal beef with any specific staff member, and I said nothing in the way of a personal nature against any staff member, sure I called them out by name but all my criticism was directed at their professional actions
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@motosubatsu and that's not how folks will spin it
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
I didn't say 'x is a doodoo head' or 'I don't like x' I said x produced this in their role, I think it is bad because of x y and z
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Focus on the actions, and how its hurting the community. I got you. But calling them out by name crosses the line. Just cause some folks forget how we do things in the proper SE community doesn't mean we should.
And getting mad at a fellow mod isn't cool either
Certainly not ... like that
I empathise, but seriously man
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
If the name was the issue and I don't really agree that it should be when you are referring to something that is published under their name then an edit or redaction would have been the appropriate choice
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@motosubatsu It was incredibly difficult to do that.
I was trying to figure out how to do it
and people would have yelled at me too.
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
8:25 AM
And a minor nitpick. I have no "fellow mods" for I am not a mod, and yes i got mad, and I don't feel that was entirely unwarranted, my post goes from one dissenting comment and multiple up votes to gone, with a dismissive comment
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@motosubatsu I'm a MSE mod
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
Ahh of course sorry I misunderstood that
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
And I'm not happy at how things are going either
But stuff like this makes me feel like we're getting played for fools. :/
and I do mean we. I've spent a good chunk of the past year working with folks and trying to keep meta relevant
 
Magisch
Magisch
I'm not sure if any of this matters but picture what happens when someone from staff reads your post
Will they engage with the arguments you made or dismiss it as harassment?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch more precisely - it gets shown as an example of how meta is toxic
 
Magisch
Magisch
8:29 AM
That ship has already sailed, circumnavigated the globe and returned to port laden with exotic spices
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
It dosen't matter if you're actually even right.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
Oct 13 at 17:17, by PM 2Ring
@Magisch If I were even more cynical than I am, I'd suggest that it's the ancient strategy of Divide & Conquer at work... But I'm too good-hearted & optimistic to suggest that. ;)
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Yes
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
Sorry to dash In the middle of a conversation but I have to head to work, will return I promisr
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
So, in a sense - its as much gone cause it hurts the community as much as it being a personal attack
 
Magisch
Magisch
8:30 AM
meh
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch There's still a few staff members who clearly care + I figure if their latest plans fail at least there's meta
 
Magisch
Magisch
I'm not convinced it matters at this point. Meta is already regarded as toxic, is already not being listened to and dismissed, and is already slated to be repealed and replaced, nothing we do will change their mind on that. The only reason we have not to engage in that way is personal moral resolve not to stoop to that level
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch and that feeds itself.
I mean the outrage
As someone who believes in the value of meta for us...
 
Magisch
Magisch
so? Do you think anything you or tink or even every single user who ever visited this room can do to stop that? SE is clearly not going to, they've just announced they're canceling meta
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I'm kinda tired of folks fighting each other, almost for its own sake
Nope.
But doing nothing sucks
And I actually care about what people other than me think.
 
Magisch
Magisch
8:35 AM
we've been fighting against windmills on MSE ever since this all started, fighting a war that SE never had any interest helping us even though it is theirs, and now they've decided to just cancel the entire platform. Besides not wanting to stoop to that level, what convincing argument is there for continuing to be civil on there? I agree we should but at this point only because it's the wrong thing to do not to be, not because it has any utility
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch well - thats about it - and its still a platform for running the stuff we need to run
 
Magisch
Magisch
I'm semi convinced they'll put it into read-only before Q2 2020
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
naw
 
CptEric
CptEric
just had my first coffee and am still waking up, what is today's issue?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I kinda think they'll just ignore it
 
Shadow The Princess Wizard
Shadow The Princess Wizard
8:37 AM
Huh? @Mag you're back to your full self! What about the cactus? Will it return too? ;)
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
And the rest of the network
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
@Magisch I don't think they'll actually obliterate meta(s). They'll possibly leave them as places for the community to discuss stuff among themselves, but there will no longer be a direct official channel of communication from meta to SE staff. OTOH, if the metas become predominantly echo chambers of negativity against SO Inc, then I guess they may pull the plug.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@ShadowThePrincessWizard I'll look for an avatar when I get home
something cactus themed, i'm sure
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Nothing different from the past few years. At least there's no promises things will get better
 
Shadow The Princess Wizard
Shadow The Princess Wizard
@Magisch sad?
@CptEric here's another one then
!!/coffee CptEric
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
8:39 AM
@ShadowThePrincessWizard brews a cup of jQuery for @CptEric
 
CptEric
CptEric
shrinks
atleast it's not ABAP
drinks
danke
 
Shadow The Princess Wizard
Shadow The Princess Wizard
:D
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
As I said here: meta.stackexchange.com/a/338836/334566 I think it's high time for a drastic overhaul of how meta functions. I'd like to say I'm cautiously optimistic about the upcoming changes, but frankly that Loop blog post & the Through The Loop survey don't give me much confidence, especially in the light of what's gone down over the last couple of months.
@CptEric One of the Physics mods works at SAP, and does a lot of stuff with ABAP.
 
CptEric
CptEric
my sincere condolences.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
Is it really that bad?
 
CptEric
CptEric
8:46 AM
the framework that it's built upon, the aged language that predates 1968-esque COBOL and a single window, not quite stable IDE that weights over 60gb made me hide it from my CV as soon as i stopped doing it.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
I admit the concept does seem more than a little hare-brained: create your own in-house language which is essentially a transformed version of Cobol, with added OOP...
 
CptEric
CptEric
not much OOP to it tbh
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
A 60 GB IDE? Ok, that's frankly mental.
 
CptEric
CptEric
it's because you need to run your own instance of the server cluster for local compiling + a local client to see the results
 
Magisch
Magisch
a former vocational school colleague was programming in ABAP
 
CptEric
CptEric
8:49 AM
which are all part of the same IDE interface
and can't be open separately
speaking on my knowledge of SAP 3.5 enterprise, unsure if that's changed since 2015.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
I started coding on mainframes in the early 70s. So I learned to be frugal with RAM. I do take advantage of the RAM on modern systems, but I still like to be relatively frugal, when practical.
 
CptEric
CptEric
if you like old languages sap is a big jump from cobol for sure. but it's ages far from anything post 80's
and it's fast as fuck executing queries given the whole thing is "one".
that's the only positive thing, i could get the whole flight record of one day in seconds.
by selling part of my soul to the language and hanging, clunky IDE.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
@CptEric Makes sense.
 
CptEric
CptEric
that's the data view, where you could create the models. then you had to create views, which filled the models or served as interfaces for stuff like servlets, etc
had to close one to open the others.
that editor is newer btw, mine was still the eggnog and cyan colored UI
ooh the new one is no longer 60gb, apparently yuo can set up a cloud instance for IDE's. that easens the pain a bit.
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
All that uppercase code is giving me Cobol & Fortran flashbacks. ;)
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
9:01 AM
@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi in Advent Children Marlene does indeed visit the church at some point, but I don't think the specific visual of Barret holding Marlene on the shoulder happens at any point in the movie. Nor does it happen in FF7.
If I recall correctly, that scene was just a "promo" wallpaper for the original game (and maybe it was used in the PC version during the installation process).
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
There are actually 2 regulars in The h Bar (Physics chat) who work for SAP, but I think only one of them (A Curious Mind) does ABAP stuff.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@CptEric from what I hear though it's extremely well paid
if soul crushing
 
PM 2Ring
PM 2Ring
A Finnish coder has created a site dedicated to giving practical advice about XML: xml.fi ;)
 
CptEric
CptEric
9:17 AM
@Magisch it is, because i know very little people that have gotten in contact with it and actually liked getting anywhere close anymore
so it's quite demanded due to scarcity
 
Magisch
Magisch
@CptEric I actually thought about learning it and working in that field, as it has quite a few similarities to microsoft access which I'm comfortable maintenance coding in, but people doing it are largely consulting
and I need my regular routine and consulting isn't for me
 
CptEric
CptEric
yup it's mostly consulting work
there's also a lot of dirty finntech work when banks go from cobol to sap as framework upgrade
but i think most of that already happened in the mid 2010's
 
Magisch
Magisch
I'm personally more of a fixed permanent employment type person
nobody could pay me enough to go into consulting. That is intensely stressful for me, it'd have to be enough that I could retire after like 5 years of doing it which will never happen
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
Looking at the transcript since yesterday - I do notice that no one seems to have mentioned that question about the new "Microsoft Competitor". Just wondering - is just random event, explicit choice, mandatory policy...?
 
Magisch
Magisch
which question?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
9:25 AM
oh, the OSQA based one?
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@Magisch Here
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
> SO Enterprise would have been a great solution, if it supported all the requirements that we had. However, it doesn't. SO has been prioritizing SO Teams development and SO Enterprise intranet scenarios. They have different priorities and those didn't align well with the needs we have, including but not limited to support for a localized experience and broad support for a large number of languages and character sets.
gee
 
CptEric
CptEric
@Magisch then the only SAP work i know there is trough SAP partners, but most are telecom companies paying peanuts
Indra, T-Systems, the_french_one_i_always_forget, Telefonica...
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@JourneymanGeek yep, SE as a whole served them a good opportunity on a silver plate - and this is the nice version
 
Magisch
Magisch
@JourneymanGeek I mean, if microsoft were to adopt this further and side-grade into a SE style site model, this could easily just supplant SE
especially since microsoft has no need to make direct profit from a Q/A site - they'll be using this as a customer acquisition tool
 
CptEric
CptEric
9:33 AM
> We love Stack Overflow. We will continue supporting our customers who ask questions there. In the future, we will introduce a feature that points askers on Microsoft Q&A to relevant answers from Stack Overflow.

However, Stack Overflow has specific criteria about what questions are appropriate for the community and Microsoft Q&A will have a more open policy regarding this. More importantly, via Microsoft Q&A we can create unique experiences that allow us to provide the highest level of support for our customers. It is hard to get a full picture of the customer who is asking a question on …
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@Magisch there is a very interesting quote there too.... precisely this passage.
> But on Microsoft Q&A it will be possible to connect the asker to their actual product usage and support contract. This will enable new opportunities to offer the highest quality support.
This could mean that they plan to provide a way to "get answers" from the actual product teams
meaning that a question about SharePoint could actually be answered... by those who worked on the feature.
This alone has the potential to be a game breaker if done decently.
 
JAD
JAD
well, nothing is stopping that from happening right now is it?
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
I have far to many question on SharePoint that basically only Microsoft could answer.
@JAD Now: a Microsoft employee should create an account here and answer in their free time. Depending on how "foolish" their work contract is, they may have a non-disclosure agreement that don't allow them to provide inner implementation details.
 
JAD
JAD
hmm true
I wonder if that might open the door to private answers based on license
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
Microsoft owned Q&A site? Probably paid to engage with the community
 
JAD
JAD
9:41 AM
(back on MSQ&A)
 
CptEric
CptEric
with their QA platform, they can have DevRels do that
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@JAD I don't think they will provide private answers... but private support to fix a problem is totally an option
 
Magisch
Magisch
well one thing isn't for sure
regardless of how big it gets, the Q/A site itself will not need to make a profit for MS
since it's a community outreach & customer relations thing
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
> "I have this problem with product XYZ, seems like a bug"
"Oh, you are a gold Microsoft Partner, let us get you a private fix until we get this sorted for public release"
 
CptEric
CptEric
that's how most support works though
which is what made SO great - there was no paywall behind solutions
 
Magisch
Magisch
9:45 AM
seems like such a model didn't work out too well with VC money
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Hitodama actually msft employees do do that. And I see a lot of <username> msft
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@JourneymanGeek Yes I know, I saw them too. Still, I think having the "company" on your back could provide a boost in that field. Meaning that I could see them more easily posting info on a Microsoft owned Q&A site.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Hitodama sure
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@CptEric My example would not be a paywall - just a way to get companies to use benefits they already have (like getting hot-fix before public release) in an easier way. But I get what you mean.
Anyway, I will keep an eye on that site. Could be interesting, depending on how it evolves.
 
CptEric
CptEric
yeah i got you, we once payed for a certain bitbucket addon that didn't work for us and we had a hotfix deployed and access to the source to find our way trough it. a non-paying user would have gotten an ETA for the release at most
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
9:54 AM
@Magisch if staff choose to engage in falsely equating criticism as "harassment" I can't control that - but the notion of implicitly validating that false equivalence by preemptively decreeing it so doesn't sit right with me personally
 
CptEric
CptEric
what post?
 
Magisch
Magisch
@motosubatsu surely you admit your post is quite caustic
what would you think if someone wrote that about you? Would you be in the frame of mind to engage constructively with the arguments?
 
CÅ“ur
CÅ“ur
Hello. I'm reading today that Joel left (Joel left, and SE as we know it is dead), but I'd like to know where was it announced/discovered that Joel left?
 
Bart
Bart
Announcing Stack Overflow’s New CEO, Prashanth Chandrasekar!
Joel Spolsky on September 24, 2019

Last March, I shared that we were starting to look for a new CEO for Stack Overflow. We were looking for that rare combination of someone who could foster the community while accelerating the growth of our businesses, especially Teams, where we are starting to close many huge deals and becoming a hyper-growth enterprise software company very quickly. This is not something I’m particularly good at, and I thought it was time to bring on more experienced leadership.

The Board of Directors nominated a search committee and we went through almost 200 candidates. It speaks to how well respected  a com …

 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Magisch no I don't.. it was relatively mild IMO
 
CÅ“ur
CÅ“ur
9:57 AM
@Bart Oh, so it was 2 months ago?
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Magisch I'd engage - and have done so elsewhere with far more "caustic" criticism (to use your word)
and I've engaged with people who attacked me personally, something I did not do here
 
Magisch
Magisch
ok different angle
as you view the recipient of your criticism, do you think they would read that and not just think of you as another toxic meta-user
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@motosubatsu You used someone's name to label their work a bullshit bingo. That's a personal attack whether you like it or not. And we can discuss this ad infinitum, but it's not going to get your post undeleted.
 
Magisch
Magisch
and if you agree they would, who is that post for? Just screaming into the void? It's cartharthic, I'll grant you that, but I've been doing it on notepad and then not posting the result :p
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Tinkeringbell I disagree, for reasons I've already stated. You say yourself I attacked the work not the person. And kindly would you not accuse me of directly using the expletive, I self-censored that word in accordance with SO/SE policy.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:02 AM
@motosubatsu Well, for disagreeing there's Contact Us. Not chat.
I do hope they hurry up with that part of The Loop.
 
Magisch
Magisch
chat is perfectly fine to discuss such things, just not very likely to get the answer undeleted
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Actually...
Twitter
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch If you disagree with a moderator action and think they're abusing their power, that's contact us. Not chat ;)
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Seriously
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell mhm. Moderators are also accountable to public opinion
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
10:03 AM
If you want to complain about staff. Twitter.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I'm not staff ;)
 
Magisch
Magisch
discussing the validity of a moderator action in chat is perfectly fine as long as it remains respectful. it's not likely to get it overturned but discussing it isn't off topic
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Yeah well as this didn't start out respectful, it's not one we're having as far as I'm concerned :)
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
@Hitodama ohhh you may be right. I vaguely remember that scene, but I'm fairly sure I've never seen it happen in my 4+ playthrough of the game (that was quite some time ago, anyway)
 
Magisch
Magisch
yeah the starting message has been deleted. What remains was respectful from what I see
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:05 AM
@Magisch The starting message getting deleted should've been the end of it.
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Tinkeringbell for my initial comment - I do apologise, sincerely. It's no excuse but I had just woken up and was ill-disposed. I have done my best to engage in cordial behavior since
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Instead, people chose to engage with that anyways.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell there's no if you started it wrong you have to drop it rule
we engaged with the respectfully raised points of the discussion. I dont see the problem with that
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch There's one where it's not advised to engage after people do... but sure, feel free to have the convo, go in circles...
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
I will fess up to my "bad" with the initial comment - but I respectfully disagree that means I should forever more hold my peace
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
10:06 AM
I had the same experience. Staff labelled my criticism as "trolling" or "harassment", and eventually even various -isms - while at the same time refusing to address my original point.@motosubatsu
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Waste energy on that post...
It's what makes MSE so good lately. All the energy goes to the bad stuff, instead of people encouraging the good things.
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi oh, don't worry. I am just taking notices of the various anomalies surrounding the FF7 remake.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell now you're in a bad mood instead of me :p
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch No, just being realistic and pointing out stuff I've been noticing for weeks already :)
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
They suggested to use the Contact form for any grievances... which of course, sits ignored after 3+ weeks now.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:08 AM
If I'm in a bad mood, that sentence would've had expletives.
 
Magisch
Magisch
you've never used expletives on SE
@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi iirc you don't get notified when they close a ticket as no action needed
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
I never was.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch Have. Just not where/when you saw it, or it got deleted.
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Perhaps the backlog is really that long. Who knows.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@motosubatsu no one's telling you to shut up
but critique can be more... tactical
 
JAD
JAD
10:12 AM
@JourneymanGeek not explicitly, but this did suggest it
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Oh, ok
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Magisch in good faith I can't say I've never used an expletive on SE - but I try not to, I'm only human and occasionally get things wrong but I explicitly censored the "bad" word in my now deleted post - not in an edit but at time of writing.
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi Oh, it really works well. NOT.
May 2 '18 at 14:05, by Derpy
there you go, @user5389107 . Flagged multiple times. Used the "contact us" link and sent a custom mail asking for its removal or an explanation of why it should stay. Got NO ANSWER.
The parrot or the dog may actually remember what this was about since probably they were the ones who had to pick up the trash that day.
Contacting SE didn't work, nor contacting a community manger.
And yep, there were offensive pictures, mockery, calling users "mentally ill" and such.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Hitodama Not really, we were only instated Nov '18.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
\o/ I have a few emails contact us I never got a response for either
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
10:17 AM
@Tinkeringbell so, whoever was mod before you.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Hitodama there were none
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
ruining my jokes huh..
 
Magisch
Magisch
I've never recieved a response to any of my contact us requests except one where I inquired about deleting all of my accounts at once in 2018
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Tinkeringbell those - at least SE sends rejections
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Magisch I do think there's a more than fair chance that the named author of the blog may have viewed my comments as harassment yes, but a) they were far from the only intended audience of my post and b) just because someone may choose to unfavorably twist something I say doesn't mean I am going to refrain from saying it
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:19 AM
@JourneymanGeek Oh, they weren't for SE.
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@JourneymanGeek Then either a room owner, or Shog passing by.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@motosubatsu who was the intended audience then?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
and I'm pretty certain they aren't hiring for the role I want any time soon
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
In both cases it sadly demonstrates that you are better to try to get people noticing bad content in chat that trying to report those privately.
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
@motosubatsu Indeed. Just because someone is offended by something I say that doesn't automatically means that it's bad - if it's written without insulting, it expresses a valid point, doesn't use rude words, etc.
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
10:20 AM
@Magisch all those who were interested in seeing, as the question title indicated what those in the community felt regarding the loop and the accompanying blog post
 
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Emanuele-reinsMonica-Ciriachi
Mods seem to think otherwise.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@JourneymanGeek I want my apartment done and finances settled, and then I'll probably go look at the possibility of just returning to retail.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Hitodama even better, tweet about it and see if you can find a progressive angle on it
@Tinkeringbell not feeling the whole software dev thing?
 
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch Oh, the software dev thing is essentially nice. It's the cruff on the sides...
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog gone :)
 
Magisch
Magisch
10:22 AM
@Tinkeringbell Isn't it ironic that you may get scared off by the very thing the industry is attempting to increase the amount of women in the profession
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I miss having a bunch of people to hang out with just for the sake of hanging out, instead of being someone's pet project to their next promotion, and in retail no one is going to treat you differently based on gender.
 
Magisch
Magisch
somewhere alanis morrisette is having a field day
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch Probably, yeah.
 
Magisch
Magisch
try going for a small company's software department first, someone who does their own in house systems but is small. corporate culture hasn't seeped through that deep yet
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch Meh. Retail probably also means I can work close to home...
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
10:24 AM
@Magisch it must be raining at that location
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
Anyway, about the deleted post, can I humbly suggest an attempt at a pacific midway agreement by at changing that line to "Corporate Buzword Bingo?"
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Which would be extraordinarily nice, to get off at 5 and be home at 5:15
 
Magisch
Magisch
I can relate. I work 10 mins by bike away from my apartment
end at 4:30. Home at 4:45 unless I have to go grocery shopping, then I'm home at 5:10-15
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Yeah, I'd like about the same.
Even if I get a car, I'm still travelling 45 minutes one way each day.
Time better spent doing other stuff.
 
Magisch
Magisch
but yeah, I'd never work with a big firm, as that would require disclosing my condition at pre-employment and that either means open discrimination or the type of help that really feels like discrimination even if it's well meaning
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:27 AM
@Magisch Yeah, it's never perfect, is it? :P
 
Magisch
Magisch
the only winning move is not to play, e.g. never mention it and develop your own coping strategies
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Oh, I thought that would mean never take any job ;)
 
Magisch
Magisch
people either view and treat you as inferior or a charity case which is both insulting, except I find the charity case treatment even more insulting because at least the real discriminators sometimes have a nagging conscience that causes them to stop on occasion
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Yep.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Tinkeringbell its probably the company as much as anything else
not everywhere is like anywhere else
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:34 AM
Oh true... but retail would have several other benefits too, like I said it would be close to home..
There's also never overtime, or the pressure that 'you can't be a consultant with only 40 hours'.
(I was a software dev, that's what was on the portals too as my job description, now I'm suddenly a consultant. Didn't sign up for that).
 
Magisch
Magisch
if you ride the wave long enough you could probably be a manager with less egregious hours
but I get what you mean
 
CptEric
CptEric
@Tinkeringbell i know it seems like a fair obvious question but: maybe another country's tech culture fits you more?
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Hitodama Not a bad suggestion - I've re-worded it to "The blog post hits many of the talking points that have become de rigour in recent times, and to my ears they are sounding increasingly hollow"
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@CptEric I'm buying an apartment here... and most are worse, trust me. If I have to fill out an application that states more about what I am than what I can do... that's not good.
 
Magisch
Magisch
you wouldn't find respite here either, i'm afraid
 
CptEric
CptEric
10:38 AM
ugh. didn't have that experience in germany, but yeah if you're settling down, find somewhere where you are happy is the best.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@CptEric Oh, I can be happy here... with a different job, I guess ;)
 
Magisch
Magisch
the entire software industry in most countries and pretty much everywhere in europe is interested in getting more women into the job, there's even talk of a legislative-level 40% female mandatory quota for all middle management
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
I worked retail for several years before, it's not as horrible as the stories may make it seem.
 
Magisch
Magisch
software is nowhere near that, so people are scrambling to find anyone they can get to that level
 
CptEric
CptEric
somewhere as job :D
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
10:40 AM
@Magisch Fun huh? So we're pulling on the female dev to go more into managing (yep... that too, why do you think I'm suddenly a consultant?)
Like I'm going to want 60 hour work weeks.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell I mean, you can understand why they're doing it. If that law eventually hits, you have 2 choices: promote more women internally or only women until you fill the quota, or hire externally and start demoting your existing male managers
 
JAD
JAD
@Tinkeringbell consultant and developer are not mutually exclusive. You can develop for your own company, or the company provides developers to other companies. In the latter case, you're a consultant.
Generally, companies that provide developers to others, have that as their core business.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@Magisch The fun thing is when your current 'boss' is saying that he's doing applications for new team managers, and there's two candidates, and one has experience and qualifications, the other has little of those but is female... and you've already had 5 managers in 2.5 years, and you can already guess the next one you're stuck with is going to be not so qualified... sigh
@JAD True, perhaps. But the fact that they changed my job description without clearly notifying me, and that I'm now getting the whole 'yeah well, you can't be a consultant for only 40 hours a week, you need to do company stuff besides client stuff, in your own time'... I did not agree to that change, I was not warned it would come... Together with all the other crap I've been through the last 2 years... retail is looking better, even with the paycut.
 
CptEric
CptEric
that sounds pretty horrible.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Tinkeringbell such is the case when the industry is trying to quickly and artificially correct a historic imbalance
not helped by lawmakers permanently dangling the specter of fines over company's heads
 
CptEric
CptEric
10:48 AM
i've also seen that in some places (nowhere close to me) there's this kind of elevator culture where if you don't want to be C-level or "manager of" you're suddenly conflictive
"go up or go out"
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@CptEric It sounds more like regular work trouble to me. I mean the retail job I worked had a store on the verge of bankruptcy, a drunk boss, too little staff and too much work... Each job has it's downsides, it's just what you're prepared to put up with, I guess.
 
CptEric
CptEric
i just want to code, not bring work home and maybe one day occasionally teach padawans stuff.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Apparently such jobs don't exist ;)
 
CptEric
CptEric
mine for now is 😃
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
That sounds nice :) Mine was at the beginning too ;)
 
Magisch
Magisch
10:55 AM
mine was too but now i'm data protection officer
 
CptEric
CptEric
do you get a badge?
i'd ask for one
 
Bart
Bart
Forget the badge, get a taser.
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@CptEric I felt similarly after my last permanent role (as a Head of Development) - so I became a developer contractor instead, I show up, I code, I go home, I bill the client. And that's all there is to it - not having work take over your home life is so.. liberating
 
CptEric
CptEric
@Bart That personal field in the database wasn't deleted with the last anonimization script. ZZZzzzzaaaaaap
 
Bart
Bart
It would at least make dealing with GDPR more fun
2
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
11:04 AM
@motosubatsu That's not really an option here either, a ZZP-er has to do load of administration... that would still take work home, and also there's a whole bunch of rules around insurances and pensions and stuff... I don't want to deal with that either :P
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Tinkeringbell we have those too - although to be fair I "cheated" partially and hired an assistant. That said the admin overhead of running the company is (for me at least) far smaller than what permanent roles used to put on me
 
CptEric
CptEric
there's usually specialized firms dedicated to handling that for you
in spanish it's gestoría but i have no way of finding a correct translation for what they do
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@CptEric yeah, in the UK you can often work under what they call an "Umbrella" company
 
CptEric
CptEric
i'm speaking more of offices full of people that all they do is administration for companies/individuals/ZZP-ers that don't want / don't need HR/ADM/etc
from payslips to medical leaves to tax
 
Hitodama
Hitodama
@motosubatsu this? ^
oh, I almost forgot.
I was to ruin the parrot day.
here @Tinkeringbell
10
Q: Do Pokemon stay 'super shiny' when they evolve?

EmmaIn SwSh, they added a new shiny visual effect called 'super shiny', which has square sparkles instead of stars. Are the square sparkles kept upon evolution?

pokemon-sword-shield
yep, you will have two types of shiny to collect now.
Aren't you happy?
More farming!
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
11:19 AM
Not really :P
I'll stick with Stardew Valley and crochet for now ;) That, and a visit to a concert, should technically get me through the christmas vacation ;)
 
CptEric
CptEric
themed crochet?
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
Might do, one day
 
CptEric
CptEric
cool
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
That designer makes awesome patterns :) And most of them are free too!
 
CptEric
CptEric
i once gifted a star wars crochet kit for christmas, had all the characters, the wool and the guides.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
11:24 AM
@CptEric I have two of those :D
Different patterns/characters, though mine only came with supplies for two characters and patterns for more of them.
 
motosubatsu
motosubatsu
@Hitodama lol.. I've always thought the same whenever I've heard it discussed
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
 
CptEric
CptEric
must be the same kit. the one i gave had jabba, yoda a stormtrooper and leia
never saw them made tho. life sucks.
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
The yoda is fun to make!
@CptEric Heh. I got gifted some stuff when I left the previous team... it took me two years of working at other projects I also wanted to do before I got to them. It might still happen!
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:41 AM
@CptEric yea sure, the badge will read "GDPR fall guy"
I'm basically unfireable, so there's that
 
rene
rene
11:55 AM
@Tinkeringbell so when you get a crochet kit at work, you know it is time to leave ... noted ...
 
Tinkeringbell
Tinkeringbell
@rene Oh, I knew it was time to leave already, it was a parting gift ;)
 
rene
rene
I'm not that sensitive ...
 
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