Tavern on the Meta

12:05 AM

@DavidA That only matters for dual channel

Even then it might work

12:22 AM

@DavidA Computer mainboards are supposed to be able to adapt, by running the memory at the fastest speed everything supports. Usually, this adaptation even works.

Journeyman Geek

uhm

Oh, I tend to put it as "The speed of the slowest ram" :D

David A

1:36 AM

Looks like the Linux Foundation had its own CoC malfunction.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@JourneymanGeek I recently opened up one of my old laptops that had great specs (not only for the time, but also today) but was running extremely slowly. Replacing the 7200 RPM hard drive with an SSD solved half the problem; could slow RAM be the cause of much of the slowdown too?

Journeyman Geek

eh probably not

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

I began refreshing that machine since it's the only one I've got that has dedicated graphics, specifically Cuda cores

Journeyman Geek

Ram speed matters very little practically except for certain types of semi-modern on-die IGPs

Old but worth a read pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/…

MAY NOT BE TRUE for modern modern systems

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Is 1067 MHz SODIMM considered dog-slow today? That's what that one uses

@JourneymanGeek This one's from 2009

Journeyman Geek

1:42 AM

proooobably dosen't matter

David A

I think there are ways of sampling what the computer is waiting on to determine exactly what the bottleneck is.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

It has a 2.8 GHz dual-core processor (my modern laptop has a 2.5 GHz dual-core with hyperthreading), and 6 GB 1067 MHz SODIMM RAM (my modern one has 8 GB soldered RAM, don't recall the speed).

Yet the modern one runs much, much faster. I'd expect it to be faster, but not that much.

It also uses a SATA SSD (albeit M.2 rather than 2.5-inch)

Journeyman Geek

hmmmm

Is the Sata drive in the correct mode?

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

Ironically, my modern machine is much easier to open, despite a trend away from repairability. Remove six Torx screws allows removing the bottom door, and there's not much risk since it's a metal body, whereas my old one required removing nine screws and carefully prying out the keyboard assembly to make sure no plastic catches are damaged

@JourneymanGeek What do you mean?

I used Clonezilla to make a complete clone of the drive using an external SATA to USB adapter, then switched them out.

Journeyman Geek

oh

so there's 2 modes for sata

legacy ATAPI mode and proper sata mode

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

1:48 AM

I guess it's not in the right mode, since the benchmark results are rather low compared to the modern one (and another desktop on which I had installed the same type of drive, WD Blue 2.5 inch, a different capacity)

Journeyman Geek

might not be ATAPI but some legacy thing

may need to change it in bios if its available

possibly reinstall or repair install if it crashes.

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

2:14 AM

@JourneymanGeek Spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/436600/lobuei40

Journeyman Geek

hm

Didn't turn up on my smokey feed

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@JourneymanGeek An old one

Journeyman Geek

ah oj

when I was on break?

I kept the RSS feed (too much trouble to find it again) but was ignoring it (since I couldn't do anything)

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

@JourneymanGeek December 13, 2018

Journeyman Geek

hm

REALLY old

ok

Mark

2:17 AM

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog RAM speed is largely irrelevant. As a rule of thumb, doubling RAM speed gives you a 5% increase in overall performance.

Journeyman Geek

@Mark apparently AMD CPUs are a bit more sensitivbe

or people keep telling me

I'd rather have cheap ram and lots of it :D

speaking of cheap ram. I got my old desktop set up with a pretty nice setup to run VMs. ZFS (though I am tempted to tweak the pools a bit from what they did) ubuntu 19.04, 32 gb or ram, and a core i7 3770.

I kiiinda am debating dropping a proper/cheap GPU into it again

Stormblessed

3:03 AM

-25

Q: Should the weight of question upvotes be increased back up to +10?

Stack Overflow originally rewarded upvotes on questions with +10 rep, which changed in March of 2010 (Should the weight of question upvotes be reduced?) detailed in this blog post. However, nowadays a lot of the focus has shifted to making sure questions are detailed, on-topic, and not a duplicat...

Why POB

De Novo supports GoFundMonica

3:14 AM

@Stormblessed Mods are frustrated, which is understandable, but yes, that question is explicitly on topic for meta.

I don't think closing out of frustration about the leak is going to help anyone. If that question is on topic next week, it's on topic this week as well. I proposed an edit stating the case for re-opening, following the procedure described in the faq on re-opening questions

Journeyman Geek

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica I'm frustrated, which is why I didn't closehammer it

but that last closevote? I'd throw that.

Likewise with delete votes - if folks want it deleted, they can do it. But stuff like this makes my life monumentally more difficult

the information that was leaked is pretty incomplete

but I can't share the complete information because well, I actually don't betray trust.

Without the leak- its the best reason

with the admission its a veiled attempt to re-bring up the leak...

sigh

@DeNovosupportsGoFundMonica You probably have no idea how frustrated we actually are. And at who. But well, no one ever said it would be easy.

Its also worth noting 2 of those close voters are mods somewhere. The other 3 are not

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek I would have said that until the last few windows updates

Journeyman Geek

@LinkBerest ah...

My dad's laptop died after, about 12 years of service.

I swapped out the drive and... my old laptop of the same model also died

LinkBerest

The move by MS to move everyone to 64-bit only kinda broke a bunch of stuff with older kit

Journeyman Geek

got him a dell desktop, which I intend to upgrade to a cheap chinese SSD ;p

@LinkBerest ah, it supported 64 bit

core2duo has long legs

LinkBerest

3:28 AM

yeah, most things that are at least from 2006 or later support 64-bit but doesn't mean they support it well :)

Journeyman Geek

basically the first generation with 'real' sata support baked in, proper 64 bit (even if it was hardly used) ....

Oh the damned thing was basically a tank

the SSD basically made it run pretty darned fast too

LinkBerest

oh, yeah; if you upgrade the HDD to an SSD that would help a lot

Journeyman Geek

I think the power system eventually gave out and well, I really wanted my dad to upgrade to newer, actually supported gear

So, little dell SFF box, for at least the next half decade.

LinkBerest

RAM shrug; I mostly have issues with AMD chipsets and some of the older graphic cards/integrated chips when upgrading to 10 now

Journeyman Geek

also, theoratically if I were to move out, I'd want something easy to support.

I mostly run intel/nvidia setups

LinkBerest

3:30 AM

well, and licensing. If you have 7 or 8 its easy....before that, well (presuming you don't want to pay full price for Win 10)

Journeyman Geek

Spare PC upgraded from 8 (got a copy from school) to 8.1 to 10

@LinkBerest I hear stories the old update tool still works ;p

never really tested it

LinkBerest

yeah, intel/nvidia & SDD with dual-core wouldn't be too bad for a general purpose PC w/Win 10

Journeyman Geek

but I basically backed up and upgraded any windows 7 box I had

oh, this was just intel

but it was a thinkpad r61

so turn of the changeover, just post lenovo takeover

they were basically the nokia 3110s of laptops

LinkBerest

AMD is the only thing I run into problems with (presuming no other problems)

Journeyman Geek

some models even have 3rd party upgrade kits that let you gut them and replace the internals with modern parts

LinkBerest

3:33 AM

other problems range from "I dropped my coffee on it" to "it bursting into flames cause power supply was full of dust"

Journeyman Geek

....

I had the last happen

actually it exploded

It was an old PIII that I used as a homeserver. Was powered by electricity and spite.

loved that old machine.

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek yeah, my case is a 2010 Lenovo case (with like 2 extra vents cut into it) but all the internals are different now....except the CD-ROM cause I forget I have it alot

Journeyman Geek

lol

Most of my boxen don't have optical drives

got one on my dad's so he won't bother me lol

LinkBerest

@JourneymanGeek I've had that last happen on several different systems (from touchscreens to PCs to Printers too)

Journeyman Geek

actually latest box has no spinning rust drives

all M.2

LinkBerest

3:37 AM

best (or worst?) was back in the 90s when I was working as a technician and we found out that this old compuadd, that someone had brought in for repair, become the home of a mouse....there was smoke when we turned it on & then the fur caught

Stormblessed

@Shog9 will there be any official comment on the upvote-reputation thing?

LinkBerest

^ I bet his answer is "maybe" ;)

Journeyman Geek

... was the mouse alive at the time?

@Stormblessed All things happen in time.

LinkBerest

......not by the time I figured it out (not sure about when I turned it on)

Journeyman Geek

poor mouse.

LinkBerest

3:39 AM

I also take that back: the worst was when we setup these custom touchscreen displays with scanner mounts for a gift registry (this was cutting edge in the 90s so was very proud of it) and actually built proper venting into the stands we custom made for these cause the tube based touchscreens were....very....very...hot

then someone decided to pile all the promotional paperwork and pamplets next to the touchscreens (right in front of the vents)

and learned: "paper + heat = very bad things"

I learned about this when a melted (seriously melted) touchscreen was delivered to me for repair

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

4:43 AM

@JourneymanGeek Left a comment on meta.stackexchange.com/questions/337817/…

rene

7:30 AM

→ 9 messages moved to Chimney

Rob

9:25 AM

Nothing like a computer from the old days ...

Tinkeringbell

@Rob Time to start excavating ;)

Rob

Dust like that is so finely granulated that when you attempt to vacuum it the dust passes through the bag's pores and re-enters the room.

Tinkeringbell

@Rob Ah, so it's going to be real excavation! First, use something glue-y to stick all the brittle parts together :D

Wait until settled, then carefully excavate the entire thing ;)

Rob

10:05 AM

They should have installed a Bulldozer CPU.

Journeyman Geek

10:51 AM

@Rob Oh cigarette smoke

I used to work in a casino. Even with really good filtering the PC's end up like that

mag

@Tinkeringbell spoken like someone with an archaeology degree

Tinkeringbell

Yep!

Now that people are here... At work we have thingies that allow you to just plug a USB cable into your laptop, and then you're connected to both monitors, and the network cable... I want one... what are the thingies called?

Journeyman Geek

A dock. Though...

USB seems a bit weak for that. More likely thunderbolt

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek That cable goes into an USB slot too?

Journeyman Geek

USB C, though there's tons of variation

Tinkeringbell

10:58 AM

Then it's not thunderbolt...

Journeyman Geek

Best is to see if there is a dock for your specific laptop

Unless it's a Mac

Tinkeringbell

Ehhh... Yeah, that'd be the ones we have at work XD

Journeyman Geek

Mac?

Tinkeringbell

Thinkpad

(Lenovo...)

I was kinda thinking that I'm tired of switching a bunch of cables between my desktop PC and laptop each time I work from home...

Journeyman Geek

I think they have a dock

And thinkpad docks are nice

Also no cables. You just slot it in

Ohhhh

USB dosen't really have the bandwidth for video

Tinkeringbell

11:06 AM

So you're saying it's better to just keep the mess of cables?

Journeyman Geek

Vaguely yes

Tinkeringbell

sigh... but that's such a pain when cleaning :(

Journeyman Geek

I use different inputs on my monitor s for different things

Which kinda helps

Tinkeringbell

Yeah. I have that right now too... One monitor connected to desktop and nintento switch, one monitor connects to desktop and has a cable I use to connect to laptop... I could see if I have other inputs that I can use too... but I don't think so.

terdon

12:18 PM

@JourneymanGeek I have one that's a bit annoying. The dock blocks one of the side ventilation vents of my T460p, which makes it heat up a bit. Haven't had major issues, but it's annoying and really bad design.

Tinkeringbell

1:16 PM

I think I've fixed it... I've rolled up some cables and taped them together, and moved the monitors around a bit. It's looking nicer this way (though nowhere near perfect). I also found a few weird cables going nowhere, it helps if you clean those up once in a while.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Get some velcro cable ties

2

they're the bomb

lol. I have a whole PC to shove somewhere at some point

Just as soon as this round of tinkering ends

I'm ordering some janky parts (second hand GPU and a SSD from some chinese company) to upgrade it. Might actually end up being gaming grade ;p

(been fixing up my old PC to be a home server and second windows box with random/cheap components)

Tinkeringbell

1:42 PM

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I like my desktop but I sometimes wish it was smaller. It takes up a lot of storage space...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell my old desktop is huge ;p

Tinkeringbell

Oh, I only have the one.

Journeyman Geek

my new one is a fair bit smaller

Tinkeringbell

It's ... new-ish?

Built it '17

Journeyman Geek

ya, my old desktop is kinda like those folks who keep an old car to tinker.

Its about... 6 years old?

Built a new one this year, though I'm using my old monitors, and the upgraded video card from my old rig

then upgraded the old desktop to as much ram as it'll hold (32 gb, up from 16)

Tinkeringbell

1:44 PM

I let my brothers pick the parts :P

Then put those together (that was easy).

Journeyman Geek

lol

Putting together a PC is relaxing.

actually this one's a fun system

I've replaced the heatsink, increased the ram...

currently dualboots linux and windows

Tinkeringbell

Nice... mine just runs windows but it's not like I'm doing anything fancy with it anyways... I watch Netflix, listen to Spotify, or chat XD

Journeyman Geek

lol

I mess with stuff foe fun

for

also I did build my own router, and it seems oddly robust so far 0_0

I might actually recommend it to folks if I can get the 2020 upgrade to work as planned.

Tinkeringbell

Hmm. I still promised dad I'd try to get him one of those adblocker raspberry pi's...

Journeyman Geek

lol. I have never gotten that to work ._.

Integrating that into my router build is something I'd like to do actually

Running them as lxd containers possibly

I don't like things installed as wget | foo.sh style though

Its lazy. Almost as bad as people who ship everything as docker containers.

(cue angry devs)

Tinkeringbell

1:51 PM

It's weekend... all devs are done being angry for the week ;)

Journeyman Geek

So - basically the nice thing with shipping software in a way the end user installs a package and configures is you can change stuff around

or integrate something into something you are running already.

I don't want my dns server to be a black box ._.

also with DOH I might not be able to really control it anyway, or need to run it differently

Journeyman Geek

2:34 PM

Also I should, in theory be apply for flat in the next few days ;)

waiting for the official opening for ballots.

Should have a good chance - there's a racial quota (yeah, I know) and that tends to work in our favour

Apparently this place has garden plots

Tinkeringbell

Fingers crossed! That sounds really nice :)

Journeyman Geek

Probably going to request a 45 sqm apartment (one bedroom, living room, kitchen, 1x toilet) - there's a 37 sqm option

In theory I can upgrade in 5 years, assuming I need to.

oh

and a bomb shelter

I'm kinda hoping the bomb shelter is big enough to turn into an "office" ;p

Tinkeringbell

Why are you getting a bomb shelter?! o.o

Journeyman Geek

its standard now XD

people use it as a store room

Tinkeringbell

Okay, so what led to bomb shelters becoming 'standard'!

Journeyman Geek

2:44 PM

That's a good question

Just paranoia

a pillar of government policy is to have people prepared for the worst

Tinkeringbell

o.0

Journeyman Geek

So...

I have a friend who I sometimes help out with fixing stuff

she needed to borrow my drill so I popped over with that and some other stuff...

they decided to do a full emergency drill

including a portable full body scanner

which saw my actual drill... so I got asked to step through a metal detector, and x ray my bag...

and I was "uhm, so.. there's a drill in my bag"

hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/…

> During peace time, the fragmentation plate is held in open position by 4 M8 stainless steel screws connected to the ventilation sleeve. In an emergency, the plate is tightened using the 4 screws against the sleeve and compressing the ‘O’ ring rubber gasket to provide an air-tight shelter. Regular checks are necessary to ensure that the ‘O’ ring rubber gasket is intact and the screws are oiled to facilitate easy tightening during an emergency.

..... uhm. Isn't asphyxiation bad?

Tinkeringbell

Ehmmm.

Yeah that sounds strange unless there's some ventilation system but how would that help with poisonous air..

Journeyman Geek

I'll let you know when I move out, if we rememeber ;p

propertyguru.com.sg/property-guides/…

that's the development I'm looking at

Tinkeringbell

That looks pretty!

Journeyman Geek

2:58 PM

I'd rather a slightly larger flat (3 room) but being single, my options are limited

unless my mom's busy on her india trip

which I doubt

Well she is, just not with that. She's attending a wedding :D

I will be quite cross if they open up 3 room flats to singles and I've gotten a 2 room :D

(I'll survive XD)

terdon

@JourneymanGeek ?

Is that controlled by the government? You can only rent/buy a 3-room flat if you're not single?

Journeyman Geek

@terdon so...at the moment, singles can only buy 2 room "flexi" flats or resale flats

@terdon its government housing

99 year lease

terdon

@JourneymanGeek Ah, OK, fair enough then. I thought it was for all housing!

Journeyman Geek

In theory I can buy resale but its significantly more expensive

Though ... that neighbourhood's closer to my old workplace XD

@terdon I doubt I can afford private housing

its $$$$$$$

The apartment I'm looking is cheaper than a mid sized sedan here :D

but I could afford a slightly larger one, and they might change the rules

But lol so much in my life is on hold. Might as well make a move ;)

Will take 2 years to build

(which is short, but its a new, undeveloped neighbourhood...)

Tinkeringbell

3:14 PM

2 years sounds kinda long actually... They haven't started mine yet, but I'm hoping that'll be done next year.

Journeyman Geek

Its more often 3-4

Tinkeringbell

3:27 PM

That's.. pretty long but those buildings are also pretty high. I have no clue how long building a high building takes here to be honest XD

Journeyman Geek

lol

prefab though

giant lego

Tinkeringbell

That's kinda cool, that you can tell people 'I live inside a giant lego'

Journeyman Geek

I have literally seen a crane plop a whole room in place ;p

Rob

Singapore vs. USA Shelter

Journeyman Geek

3:42 PM

Probably pretty true

but all those guns. no ammo?

terdon

@Rob Which is which? Presumably the one with all them gunz is the US?

Journeyman Geek

@terdon guns are beyond illegal here

like super super illegal

so... pretty much ;p

terdon

But that can't be a shelter. What's the point of a "shelter" that's just a steel box full of guns? If you can't shoot out from inside it, there's no point in having any guns at all. And little things like water, food and a toilet might be higher on your list of requirements.

@JourneymanGeek Good.

Journeyman Geek

@terdon he is trying to make a funny ;p

terdon

whooosh then. Again :(

user58

3:50 PM

shelters get cold

Journeyman Geek

@user58 not if you close the air hatch I suspect

I'm still confused over the wisdom of a completely airtight shelter.

user58

Well, the ones here aren't airtight. But they're underground and concrete.

Journeyman Geek

also what if you need to poo

@user58 oh these are in apartments

we have nuclear shelters in train stations too

I mean, no offence. You guys actually have people lobbing missiles at you

I'm not even sure any of our neighbours would last a week if they attacked us

user58

yeah but the shelters are more for long-term stuff, like if there's a Situation(tm) and we need to move in, not for those random-odd missiles now and then

those you just get down, cover your head, and hope for the best

...or just sleep right through them, like I did last time

Journeyman Geek

._.

Rob

4:03 PM

At least the air raid sirens are sensible. I like the winding down sound they make:

Federal Signal 508 Woodbury Minnesota

►

They don't test them anymore, since a decade ago.

rene

4:37 PM

@Rob being tested every first monday of the month at noon here.

Rob

5:08 PM

Apparently they are being shutdown at the end of 2020. I guess the US expects that they can intercept, and if not the shelter won't help unless you're 20 miles away.

They're working on perfecting earthquake early warnings instead, based on the speed difference of p and s waves.

rene

@Rob yeah, we have been asked to signup for NL Alert which sends you an sms if there is something up.

Rob

We have those too, lots of tests because people give feedback that they didn't get the alert.

rene

@Rob based on location the chance on an earthquake (or other severe nature events) seems higher then being hit by a bomb, conventional or nuclear)

Rob

The alerts are SMS-CB (the regular SMS is SMS-PP). The earthquake warning isn't very early because the difference in speed isn't a lot, but at least it's something. Some places (Japan) get quite a few earthquakes, so even a little advanced notice can save a lot of lives and pay for the very simple system in no time.

rene

7:38 PM

@Rob yeah, investments in those systems is money well spend.

M.A.R.

OK, someone update me on the recent rumors and discussions please

I don't pay attention for a couple of days and meta is already all Greek to me

Rubiksmoose

@M.A.R. nothing really new over the last couple of days

Reading through chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/1410/… should give you the gist of it though

M.A.R.

Oh, I forgot about my future

The future

> Yes, I'm aware of discussions, leaks, etc. that have gone on recently regarding potential plans from SE to implement this network-wide.

Now this stuff I'd kill for

Rubiksmoose

@M.A.R. Well most of that you'll find in The Future lol

Certainly that's where basically all discussion of the stuff had been centered at least around here.

M.A.R.

So . . . Not Greek?

I dunno, it's been relatively quietish then.

Next drama in ten, nine, eight

Journeyman Geek

7:48 PM

@M.A.R. Oh its been ongoing

just a simmer rather than a rolling boil

M.A.R.

Meh

Simmers are for the weak. Bring in the frying saturated canola palm olive oil

Rubiksmoose

Probably would be considered drama in a normal time. But these days baseline had been very high.

M.A.R.

Genau

Journeyman Geek

lol

@Rubiksmoose well there's also the multiple attempts to see which normal users took a break

and the questions asking why those ere closed

M.A.R.

It's the quiet-after-the-bar-fight quiet.

Rubiksmoose

7:51 PM

Ah yeah. That's been super fun.

M.A.R.

@JourneymanGeek Why do you stay?

BRB asking it on Chem

Leaving group

In chemistry, a leaving group is a molecular fragment that departs with a pair of electrons in heterolytic bond cleavage. Leaving groups can be anions or neutral molecules, but in either case it is crucial that the leaving group be able to stabilize the additional electron density that results from bond heterolysis. Common anionic leaving groups are halides such as Cl−, Br−, and I−, and sulfonate esters such as tosylate (TsO−). Fluoride (F−) functions as a leaving group in the nerve-agent sarin gas. Common neutral molecule leaving groups are water and ammonia. Leaving groups may also be positively...

Journeyman Geek

@M.A.R. cause I rather not let the bad outweigh the good

user271002

@M.A.R. …

M.A.R.

@Loong You're being such an Me.

Journeyman Geek

I may disagree with the actions of a few within the company

but the best way to mitigate the worst of that and hopefully help my community was to stay

M.A.R.

7:52 PM

I July disagree. Beat that.

@JourneymanGeek 💾

Journeyman Geek

... floppy?

M.A.R.

Just random

I was looking for a flower

I'm reading LOTR. And you remind me of Glorfindel. The elf, not our contemporary encyclopedia.

Journeyman Geek

I think of myself more of the samwise sort. Lover of potatos, and not actually the hero of the story. ;p

M.A.R.

BRB apparently, "nobody ain't giving it to you unless you take it" goes for dinner as well

@JourneymanGeek Actually

No wait not actually.

Don't get 58 started on that

The real hero is Gollum.

user58

Nah, he's the tragic villain.

M.A.R.

7:59 PM

A double negative is a positive

Journeyman Geek

Actually double negative is where I used to work ;p

M.A.R.

A camera shop?

Journeyman Geek

VFX studio

rene

@M.A.R. stop looking ...

M.A.R.

Rock music as rene enters the room

Tinkeringbell

9:07 PM

@M.A.R. rock? I was thinking flower power hippy stuff XD

Rob

9:47 PM

Music: youtube.com/watch?v=UCxgbOBVSfM or youtu.be/oJL-lCzEXgI or youtube.com/watch?v=7wRHBLwpASw nah, it's youtube.com/watch?v=G7b-_YcACuQ

Sonic the Reinstate Monica-hog

11:58 PM

Okay, this is not cool...I just spotted that a user has gone through and close-voted a lot of past posts from staff as "not seeking input and discussion".

When they clearly do.

meta.stackexchange.com/review/close/68687 meta.stackexchange.com/review/close/68688 meta.stackexchange.com/review/close/68689

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