« first day (3377 days earlier)      last day (1687 days later) » 
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

12:04 AM
@TheforestofReinstateMonica You only have a legal right to the GPL'd code if you are a customer of the company and have obtained a copy of the software in binary form from them.
@Mark I understand. From the question, it seems they are selling the binary form.
While neither providing the source code with it or stating the option of a written request.
If the code was merely used internally, as I had first thought (and several people who didn't look into it further seem to have assumed), then I would not have any issues at all.
12:21 AM
@JourneymanGeek hmm? Delete what? O_o
@ShadowThePrincessWizard OT posts without comments 🤣
Oh... Yeah think I once bashed you over that, lol... Well it's more friendly for OP to get that canned comment before the question is nuked. ;)
Anyway now watching Peter Pan doing Ninja... So weird... :P
12:38 AM
^^ fair warning that whole thing was not a fun time (I still disagree with a lot of the policy but see "move to chat" used at least fairly often so I consider this compromise). Though I guess its nice to see compromise reached even after the debated started on such a heated note (cause we still trust our mods :)
@TheforestofReinstateMonica and when that attorney sues the company, and the company goes looking for the person who let on that they were in violation of the GPL and finds the author of that question, and they lose their job over this?
Good ol' Madara
@ArtOfCode No one let on that they were in violation. The company is showing that they are doing it themselves by distributing modified Linux images sans source code.
OMG Shog changed his pic. Things are getting serious.
yeah, Madara's awesome (not the anime character though - sorry, I love anime but I am not a Naruto fan :P )
huh...when I click on Shog9's name it looks like he is switching eyes (the picture seems to mirror)
@ArtOfCode Actually, it'd be far easier for them to just comply with the GPL than fight back.
If they comply, there'd be no need for litigation in the first place.
right = capture from chat; left = the recent users list (free-hand red circles for you to enjoy)
1:26 AM
.....and this is how I realize my kids were messing with one of my image processing programs and it is now running on my screen (still was kinda cool)
@LinkBerest I also left an answer with a proposition to use an actual discussion site format for meta instead of Q&A because it doesn't fit the goal logically
ideally bugs would also be posted on a bug tracker -looking site section
I get that in 2009 resources were sparse and not enough development time, etc but man you can't shoehorn discussions into Q&A for 10 years and not develop some problems
what's the main argument against tree-structured comments? it's harder to moderate? it invites too many comments?
for whom is it better and for whom is it worse?
@user1306322 both
how do we know this
Cause I moderate comments here
The current comment system is fine imho.
But I also come from a channer background where linear comments are the norm.
A tree-structure or nested comment system would not be ideal for comments the way they are used.
1:36 AM
And practically we don't normally have an excessive comment problem
sometimes I wonder if we even have any problems with comments whatsoever :p
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Where's her podcast?
On MSE maybe, but on some other sites, comments are pretty useful.
Srry... [their].
In some cases, even useful for long-term information, despite what is claimed.
@Mazura Isn't Monica female though?
1:41 AM
@TheforestofReinstateMonica That's none of my business.
Other than the fact(?) that the CoC mandates that it becomes your business, I think everyone refers to Monica as "her" and she is female. It's not like you have to dig for that info.
ok let's not do this please
Bigotry, the heading under which you will find "use stated pronouns", means "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices especially". So if you're offended when someone uses singular they, you're a bigot. No?
Lets. ;)
1:43 AM
@Mazura Before or after the latest CoC revision?
meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/387883/… I was re-reading this post and now I don't know if the premise is true enough most of the time, and even today still to be a concern, or if it was a several week long deal which is over now
Well, much of what we discussed on Meta.SO (you can see it in answers and chats within that rabbit hole) was that there were 2 distinct ideas around comments: main vs. meta
I think we should agree to disagree. Meaning nothing changes.
where main = clarification of post or administrative needs (dup pointers, etc) & meta was meant for discussion
1:45 AM
And the chat for meta is for..... talking ;)
for the rest of my answer, see...well my linked answer
@TheforestofReinstateMonica "Prefer gender-neutral language when uncertain." "Use stated pronouns (when known)." - nothing changed
Oh, still compelled speech then?
I thought that was resolved. :/
So did I.
It hidden under bigotry
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I don't think anything is really resolved
Should be under "Be inclusive and respectful."
I miss the "Be Nice" policy. :(
Because it is a demand.
And in giant bold letters
Apparently staff think that being a bigot is nice, and that the Be Nice policy would otherwise not have covered it, necessitating the new CoC and associated changes.
@TheforestofReinstateMonica 'Don't be a jerk' was a lot easier to swallow.
1:50 AM
It also made for less rule-lawyering.
fwiw, when stuff gets to the level it got with the current incidents (there were earlier such incidents, not as bad but on the range) I don't mind when mods say: "Look. They're only so many of us. We are going to be delete heavy for a while.". I just don't think this should be standard policy
@LinkBerest I agree with this approach
however, I've seen instances where comments which were deleted were constructive, on topic, asking for clarifications, which is not the good part of this
When there's one off-the-rails comment thread, you can be delicate; prune it like your bonsai tree, protect it like a crystal sculpture... When there are 40 of 'em, it's time to get the biggest hammer you can and just start swinging.
Standard policy being that falls too much into a "Speak softly but carry a big stick" approach to moderation and I prefer other methods (then again - I haven't moderated anything since the 2000s)
@Shog9 this approach doesn't bode well for >1 bonsai trees in a pot though
which is my problem with this approach
1:54 AM
it does not
if comments were tree-structured (hah) we could just remove the bad tree (or branch)
^ they do that too (as they identify them...assuming branch = spamming/blatantly trolling user)
could. But comments weren't really designed for that.
linear comments
It's still possible... But it's very time-consuming and error-prone
1:56 AM
we have not yet had an experiment where comments were tree-structured on this site
@LinkBerest the irony is I do the pruning approach and end up having to explain individual deletions
Let's just say "screw it" and use a collaborative editing platform for comments. :P
There's no easy way to say "kill this message and all replies"
(and I get that the development time to run this experiment is going to be insanely prohibitive, so it's never going to happen)
Which kinda makes it less worth it
1:57 AM
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I proposed this exact thing years ago...
A: Add possibility to remove comment noise (fancy edition)

Shog9I really can't shake the feeling that this is overly-complex, given the current status of comments on SE. You're adding what amounts to collaborative editing to a document (the set of comments on a post) that has no history, and trying to avoid mistakes by imposing a complicated set of rules on w...

reddit recently added thread locks which only lock selected messages or branches so it cannot be replied to, I don't know how effective that is for them
And I need to decide is this user overwrought, too attached to their comments or a troll and act accordingly
@JourneymanGeek yeah, I know - when its as bad as this has gotten (based on my own non-SE moderating experience) you just have to smash stuff (hate when I have to do that too)
@user1306322 better than it used to, but not as well as we hoped
Trivia: before SO had comments, folks would occasionally try to discuss an answer Wikipedia-style, by editing their comments (and replies) into the answer itself. It... Never caught on.
@LinkBerest we are making progress though
1:59 AM
yeah, it doesn't seem as bad
well, what I've noticed in the last month is that since comments really are very volatile, other users must have noticed this too, and we see a lot more answers now, which people have commented under as "does not answer the question", yet it's the only sure way to preserve a point of view on a discussion
then again, after dealing with my own issues with certain extreme groups on (or at least watching) Meta.SE - I also haven't been checking as much
@user1306322 good, we need more of that behavior.
then maybe we should make that clearer?
I'd love to
2:00 AM
somehow, I don't know how
more deletion?
I also don't notice people calling for R/A flags in chat very often anymore (I also did not agree with that practice)
it's annoying when you get a comment "from review" under such an answer though, maybe ease up on them for meta
2:02 AM
@LinkBerest I'm fine with folks asking others to review posts or comments in chat. Saying, "flag this" isn't cool though.
yeah, those are fine (those were not all of what I was seeing)
i.e., get more eyes on problems until they're solved. But don't implement voting rings.
Of course, it'd be easy to automate truly malicious voting rings yourself anyway.
There's very little that can protect from that.
Slightly easier to detect than most folks assume.
Arguably that's what Smoke Detector is (for spam flags) - but they do it right.
Only for the most trivial vote rings.
2:05 AM
a sufficiently-complex voting ring is indistinguishable from normal behavior
would it be a good idea to show flagged comments to all users with >?k rep, same as in chat for review?
probably not
would encourage pile-on flagging
providing the option to see flags might be ok
but showing them by default is... dodgy
same as review queue though, if you want to - you can go there and wait
@LinkBerest things calmed down a little I guess
@Shog9 How about showing them by default if the number of flags exceeds a threshold?
That way piling-on would only be a risk after it's been heavily flagged.
2:07 AM
the biggest problem with a review for comments is the lack of structure again: sure, you can delete one comment (in exchange for a fairly ridiculous amount of reviewer time) - but now the thread is broken and what's to be done there?
@JourneymanGeek eh, I just happy I can pretty much definitely say the person/people sending my threats referencing my SE posts did not have enough of my PII to be more than an annoyance (a fairly jarring one to be sure but one I'm used to)
I guess I consider that "calmed down" (regardless of actual meta happenings)
Honestly, the #1 worst thing about comments is being unable to see your own deleted comments. My memory is... strange... and I've made the same comment several times in a row, not realizing that it had been deleted and that it wasn't just my memory failing me.
yeah, that can be a problem
@LinkBerest I have actually not had that happen yet. I am surprised
but that's not the #1 worst thing about comments
2:09 AM
I've even gotten mods to talk to me because they thought I was abusing the system. :/
the #1 worst thing about comments is the comments
also the #1 worst thing about questions, answers, blog posts, every newspaper that still allows comments on articles, and, of course, code
Eh, I wouldn't say that. I've learned a lot of valuable information from comments.
I've also posted some valuable information myself.
me too. Super valuable information. Super valuable information that I'll never find again when I need it.
Well it's on you to copy it if you want to keep it. :P
Hell, I've even burnt a 0day in a comment lmao
Wanna know how edit notifications work? Good news! Kevin Montrose documented it years ago. Bad news... It's in a comment. Good luck...
2:12 AM
@Shog9 why?
@Shog9 That's an argument for improving the search system.
I can still find comments from 2011 on many SO posts I made or often refer to, they're still there, still providing useful knowledge
some of them even contain unique combinations of words I can google to get back to a solution
@JourneymanGeek eh, if your online and let people know your Jewish my experience is they tend to make a point of trying to find your information: one way or another
oh you guys must mean on-site search, I don't use that, I just site:stackoverflow.com search query it on google
People find you whether you're a Jew or not.
It's the internet.
2:14 AM
entirely depends on what you post
@LinkBerest Oh I had that happen in the past on SU
@LinkBerest lol a Jewish priest :P
was disappoint. Trolls these days, no imagination
@JourneymanGeek Was that the whole pseudocode "we're gonna find you via your about me section and lock you in our torture dungeon for all eternity trolololo" thing?
that at least has some imagination
The pseudocode one or your situation?
@TheforestofReinstateMonica I used to be a Jewish Saint then they changed the rep system :P :)
2:20 AM
I don't like looking through PerlMonks. I loved the site and the language mind you (so there are fond memories)....Its just I was all of 17-20 and my code looks sssoooo bad to me now
do you think "doge" is pronounced like "dodge" or like the magazine "vogue"?
lol....I still use Powershell, SQL Server, and C#.Net for some work so had the new QA up:
Like vogue.
But that's a dead meme. Don't use it.
^ this made me laugh
why not both?
2:28 AM
@user1306322 well...its from Venetian Italian "doze", based on Latin dux, duc- ‘leader’. So neither but closer to "vogue"? (more like doe - think homer simpson - ja - very little emphasis in the "a")
Speaking of dogs, my wife was watching a horror movie yesterday and I couldn't stop laughing because the only "scary" part to her & worst part was where they killed a dog......"kill all the people you want - just don't hurt the puppies!"
2:45 AM
this site may be of use then doesthedogdie.com
I wish they named it "doesthedoglive" instead tho
3:07 AM
Looks like we had another mass user removal
I just lost 65 rep to a removed user.
I lost 130 on Security.SE and 10 on Crypto.SE.
I also gained 2, so I guess this person also downvoted me. :P
Wait nvm that's because I accepted an answer. Derp.
Is there any way to find out which user was removed?
3:38 AM
No, but there is a way to figure out which posts were affected.
A: How can I find posts related to lost reputation due to a "user was removed" message?

GlorfindelToday I discovered by accident that this information is (sometimes) visible in your personal timeline/feed in the Stack Exchange app: These two -10s corresponds to this -20 "user was removed" entry in my profile: That means it's available via the Stack Exchange API, using the Reputation His...

tl;dr it's not shown in the GUI, but it is exposed in the API.
So nothing in recent user information like you can use to find new downvoters?
3 hours later…
7:05 AM
@LinkBerest I can relate to that
@MonicaCellio I listened to your video. It was good to hear you talk. You have great verbal communication skills btw - you mention that you have better writing skills. I'm still waiting for this account to be deleted.
And thanks for your kind words. I will focus on my horses and enjoy them. Likewise, I hope you bp improves and wish you a quick resolution for your own sake.
As for the network, I no longer care. You're right about the changes in it. It's to do with corporate structure and greed. Not enough resources where they're needed i.e. CMs
If I had my time again I'd have stayed silent on this whole issue and just stayed on my break. I was happy until I was told about this mess.
and for the record I emailed Sara Chipps 10 days asking her to reinstate you @MonicaCellio. Ironic hey
will someone delete my account already, please
7:22 AM
@Nobody Generally, the queue is checked on a Monday or a Friday.
The official advice is to wait five business days before contacting SE.
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog thanks. And I got your last message. Take care. :)
8:04 AM
needs 1 moar
48 messages moved to Chimney
1 hour later…
9:14 AM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog flag as what?
It's indeed annoying that people upvote off topic questions. It better be stopped, so the comment has some merit.
That's true, and if that viewpoint were expressed elsewhere, e.g. here in chat, or on a post about off-topic questions, it'd be OK, but on the off-topic question itself, it's unfriendly to the user who asked it.
Context matters too.
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog how so?? If anything it can be unfriendly to those who upvote off topic questions, but it's not direct insult so no need to flag even for that.
"You do something that annoys me" is still valid to say, even with the new CoC... I think.
If I've asked a question that happens to not fit within the site's scope, I'd totally feel OK if someone commented, "unfortunately, this isn't within our scope, see our help page for guidance", but I'd be offended if someone said, "please do not upvote this question".
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog what context? The question is off topic. Someone probably upvoted it. It fits and with proper context.
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog eh, and its an entirely correct sentiment IMO
9:19 AM
@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog that's not the comment, it asks not to upvote off topic questions. So yes, if my question is off topic I should know it shouldn't be upvoted.
2 hours later…
11:44 AM
What exactly constitutes off-topic in Meta? I've seen plenty of non-questions in there that seem on-topic, but they still seem to have more signal than noise.
Ah... the "how do I tokenize a string" stuff.
Listening to Monica's interview and it's very enlightening. Sounds like there was an agitator or two that forced the hands of certain staff and a failure to think through the consequences of their actions.
@Nobody I don't believe that's necessary, but it's your choice (especially if this place is causing distress).
Perhaps there needs to be some way to request voluntary suspension for a week or two that doesn't carry any stigma.
12:13 PM
@DavidA it's been asked a lot.
Maybe a web service that will set a random password ant not let you retrieve it for some period if time
@JourneymanGeek Sounds better than suspension to me... especially if you don't want to see e.g. notifications. A suspension can help with lack of self-control (prevent you from answering comments, questions), but it won't help with 'I don't want to see what people say to me'.
12:29 PM
If only I could code 🤣
@JourneymanGeek actually - using the adblocker I can stop all notifications.
@JourneymanGeek @Tinkeringbell how would you feel about me staying on this site?
as it's not getting along with the mods from other sites and the hangover from TL that's one issue
is would really help if I wasn't being actively ignored by a mod on the site as well. It makes me feel completely unwelcome
@Nobody honestly you're welcome to stay but if it's stressing you out it is not going to get better soon.
12:37 PM
@JourneymanGeek yeh, I shouldn't participate, as clearly it's really not helping - and that's a genuine statement. if that makes sense
but if the sites settle down into something viable for the community - it's handy having the mse account to work with the mso account
if that makes sense
That is going to take a long while unfortunately
since I've calmed down and the chat has calmed down - mainly because I've stopped posting - it's easier. But I don't want to go back into the same pattern and create more problems all around. Caveat - I didn't intend to cause problems, but was trying to help
Short of a few major miracles
12:39 PM
@JourneymanGeek and it may not be a viable site
it's not looking good
the network has really stuffed up
Hm. That's a possibility I can't work with
@JourneymanGeek it not working out?
12:40 PM
that's the possibility you can't work with?
Else I got no reason to stay then
same for all of us really
There has to be hope in the longer term if it's worth putting time and effort into
12:41 PM
the changes have not been easy for most people to stomach
@JourneymanGeek i know, but I've lost hope atm... :\
it's a huge loss hey - the whole thing
Right now it's pretty much dealing with the short term issues and getting some stability back.
I'm trying to support questions that are run of the mill on MSO and have been upvoting the same on mse
12:42 PM
Then hope SE has the sense to actually work with us to rebuild trust
it's frustrating - the lack of communication - but in one way it may be good. they want to be sure before speaking up
That's going to take time
And working with different teams slowly
it's a shame the sites are not community driven and non-profit
which teams?
Eh. They have never been
12:44 PM
oh yeh. agree. they had started with the SO mod team, but I don't know what's happening now.. ofc
Oh the public QA dev team seems to be a little more comfortable now
they were asking for feedback and giving us time in there. We mainly were able to push for features
yep that's good
This was hopeful and the only sense of that recently
Q: Good to see improvements happening in the core product!

decezeI would like to commend the team at the mothership for their recent renewed activity vis-à-vis the core product. After the many years of neglect concentrating on other adventures which didn’t always pan out, it’s good to see some actual improvement in the core Q&A engine again. After the tweaking...

12:46 PM
they needed to focus on the actual sites all along. as that is what is key to their revenue - it's frustrating, as it's a no brainer. If they have been focusing on it and going about it from another angle, it's been hard to see
well I might cancel my deletion - if you can just make sure people don't discuss me in here. I'd appreciate that. Good to talk and good luck with things.. I'm just going to get back into SO tentatively and see what happens. @JourneymanGeek good luck with moderation this site.. it's a handful.
12:57 PM
@Nobody Its also worth considering - you've hit the deletion button... a few times. Its also worth considering just... taking a break and leaving your account be. I've done that a few times, and it actually helps more than "I'm quitting/no I'm not quitting/I'm quitting"
1:15 PM
1:37 PM
That's certainly a decision you need to make based on what you feel is best for you.
I'm pretty sure I'd have burnt out if I'd gotten back to modding earlier. Just too much tension. Its calmed down a bit so its not that bad, but its still slow going.
1 hour later…
2:47 PM
> The Clash - Should I Stay or Should I Go
Whatever you do, make up your mind and stick with it.
Seriously though, look at the lyrics.
3:49 PM
@Cerbrus I used to listen to that song and thought it was pretty good. Stranger Things took it to a whole new level for me
4:36 PM
@JourneymanGeek it's OK to quit the site as it's currently situated. Things change, and it's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that things will always be the way they are now.
4:46 PM
Well, the problem is when you let something as trivial as a website affect your personal life. That when you really should go "This is not worth the energy" and go.
(Aside from when said site is your work)
Don't let shit on the internet drag you down. It's not that hard.
[spam] If you are into swords, sword fighting or HEMA, my mighty wife is fighting for a gold medal in the long sword final at Swordfish (basically the "world series"!) Live stream here: youtube.com/watch?v=5C-tIlAARNg&app=desktop [/spam]
That was a highly confusing first read for a Dutchy, because ...
probably sale ...
First prize is a rookworst.
I see the VARA is a sponsor...
4:56 PM
hema = historical european martial arts :-D
much confusion with that name
first prize is "you survive and see another day", I think
sounds fair
5:33 PM
@Sklivvz Your wife has an awesome hobby (job?)
5:53 PM
@MonicaCellio Trevor's a good choice.
6:05 PM
Well this is going to take a while.
@Tinkeringbell Thanks :-)
I keep on thinking it would be 10x more awesome with flaming swords, but I can't convince them
6:28 PM
@Sklivvz I guess you'll have to learn to show them then ;)
6:49 PM
@JourneymanGeek Can mods see users' self-deletion request records?
@user58 I was copying 500 GB of data from one hard drive to another...it only took me one hour and 12 minutes
That sounds like a much faster machine.
I had booted into another OS strictly designed to copy hard drives (Clonezilla)
I...think it would have probably taken two hours or more if I were stuck with USB 2.0.
Still another 7,000 files to go... and an estimated 10 minutes.
What are you trying to do?
Clear space on my laptop. Transferring old files to an external hard drive.
6:53 PM
@user58 I ran into that issue on my laptop, and I just plopped in a larger drive
Not really worth it for this device...
(I was looking for prices for external drives, saw that internal drive prices were low, and my SSD wasn't performing as well as it used to.)
I have another laptop from 2009 that has good CPU and RAM specs, but is extremely slow, and I found that the hard drive was slowing it down. I've purchased a new SSD for it just because it was cheap and I was curious.
This external drive was fished out of an old machine someone had left on the street (without wiping), so I took it, wiped it, and now I have free 500 GB of storage.
@user58 What speed does the enclosure you're using support? USB 2.0, or 3.0?
It's currently transferring stuff at around 12 MB a second.
7:03 PM
I get 150+MB/s on a USB hard drive.
Check to make sure you're using a USB 3 port.
I doubt this laptop has one, since I'm pretty sure it's from before USB 3.0 came out.
oh... in that case, :-(
It's also a two-core machine with 4 GB of RAM.
two-core isn't necessarily bad... I'm on a two-core i3, but 16GB makes a hell of a difference
processor is probably the next due for upgrade
I remember when 4 gb ram was huge.
7:21 PM
Bronze final for women's longsword on now; my wife will compete in the next event, gold final for women's longsword
7:34 PM
I remember when 8K of RAM was huge...
first 100MB harddrive I bought was such luxury
I remember drooling over a Computer Shopper ad for a crazy-huge 9GB SCSI harddrive... Surely a luxury for even the largest file servers; what person could ever accumulate nine gigabytes of data?
wife going on now
checks Slack tab mem usage: 227MB
that was a clear cut to the head
7:46 PM
@Sklivvz Are we rooting for red or blue? ;)
...your wife is badass, @Sklivvz
yeah she is
wow, just crushing
I'm amused that one can achieve a negative score
it's a new rule this year, very stack exchange i must say
7:52 PM
OMG sudden death now
wow. CLOSE
Based on last year red is tough.
@Sklivvz Tell her some random internet stranger said she's awesome anyways ;)
7:56 PM
Will do
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

« first day (3377 days earlier)      last day (1687 days later) »