Tavern on the Meta

Oh yeah. And it's going to be terrible weather here this weekend, so a good reason to stay inside and do nothing productive :)

Tinkeringbell

1:21 PM

Sounds like a wonderful plan. Sadly I have to get out and meet a friend :(

See, that's why I don't have friends.

I wish I could just stay home today but unfortunately I have stuff to do

Tinkeringbell

If it stops raining here (in 30-45 minutes) I might go out to get some snacks for movie night tonight, otherwise we'll make do with whatever is around at the moment...

JAD

Hopefully it'll be dry by the time I go back home

Meta Andrew T.

It has been a very long dry season here... and we hoped for the rain... :(

Conclusion: global weather sux :/

1:28 PM

yeah pretty much

Tinkeringbell

@JAD It looks like this afternoon/evening may be a lot drier unless you're up north.

Feeds

1:49 PM

These new Bluetooth socks are great, but it's troubling to learn that I average almost 14 hours of Shoe Time a day.

3

user58

@Feeds I've slashed my screen time fairly heavily recently. Unfortunately, that means my screen time tends to be really late at night....

Meta Andrew T.

@Feeds Is wearing Google Glass considered as screen-time?

The Overflow Newsletter #3 – The 75 lines of code that changed history

@MetaAndrewT. Wow. It has been a long time since I've heard someone reference Glass.

Feeds

2:25 PM

Ryan Donovan on November 01, 2019

Welcome to ISSUE #3 of The Overflow, a newsletter by developers, for developers, written and curated by the Stack Overflow team and Cassidy Williams of React Training. You can read more about it here. This week, we have developers discussing ADHD, some surprising facts about the nature of statistics, and a look at the lines of code that changed history.

Check out podcast episode #126! stackoverflow.blog We chat with guests Chloe Condon and Iheanyi Ekechukwu about the pros and cons of being a programmer with ADHD. Plus – giants waves of molten molasses! …

Stormblessed

2:35 PM

@Mgetz What's this? Do you mean Microsoft?

@Stormblessed I guess this

@Stormblessed yes

Stormblessed

@Nobody did you put that notice on your profile about account deletion, or was that automatic?

@Bart it's both very ugly and very similar...

> This question was closed 14 hours ago by tsunomur-MSFT for the following reason: ?????????????????????????

@Stormblessed myeah, I've seen various companies/services move to a model mimicking SO. Never with great success.

See this for an other "great" example

@Bart well, its worth considering why SO and SE work

also... someone was asking me about the "SO drama" at work ._.

NOT a SO user

Apparently heard a mention on a C# podcast

2:43 PM

@JourneymanGeek you're asking for a lot there. Surely it's enough to slap a Q&A label on stuff, right? Fun fact, after being asked for it, I provided Unity with a 4 page report about what I think they are doing wrong, and how to improve the site. It was dismissed.

@Bart Sometimes I think folks in the company think that's good enough too ;p

:D

Stormblessed

@Bart oh I remember that

That one is pretty ok

I haven't used it in years. It used to be an absolute mess, with no way to edit stuff, answers being accepted by others, millions of tags for the same stuff. Basically no real moderation.

JAD

2:59 PM

@Stormblessed You might want to read down from here: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8025691#8025691

3:22 PM

Sorry to hear you're leaving @Nobody :/

pkamb

3:42 PM

@user1306322 I had been looking at a bunch of meta answers with the Tag at the top. Forgot that on questions they're added in the Tags section at the bottom.

Luuklag

3:54 PM

Guys, any opinion on this post (now deleted) meta.stackexchange.com/questions/337324/…, I flagged as spam, but got declined... I agree its borderline though

@Luuklag spam flags come with a possibility of a network wide IP ban and loss of rep

So its worth giving the benefit of the doubt

Luuklag

Oh yes, I keep forgetting about that

Columbia says Reinstate Monica

4:23 PM

Definitely a strange one though

And the same here as well

4:42 PM

I suppose you are not truly a member of the community until someone answers one of your questions with spam.

@ColumbiasaysReinstateMonica lol

Secret achievement unlocked!

@ColumbiasaysReinstateMonica reminds me of that old mod joke

You are not a real mod until someone complains about you on meta :D

Meta Andrew T.

Someone complained about me on meta, then I became a mod :/

Overachiever ;p

4:57 PM

@MetaAndrewT. Might as well at that point eh?

I'm really happy

Trasiva

@MetaAndrewT. I hear if certain individuals complain about you five times, you become a mod automatically.

I'm nearly done with this animation project I've been working and it's coming out pretty decent.

@Gwideon Nice!

@Trasiva and if you're really bad, they make you a meta mod :D

Trasiva

5:00 PM

@JourneymanGeek I hear if you're atrocious for meta, they make you a CM.

@Trasiva oh, hasn't happened yet

I just need to do a few more frames and it'll be done

One can hope :D

what happened

I can start stirring up drama about you if you want to accelerate the process

Do you have a twitter? I can look for out of context tweets

Or tweets that were appropriate for the time period, but aren't appropriate now

5:02 PM

i'm very confused

M.A.R.

Grats @Journey, welcome back man

@Cereal My twitter is very boring

M.A.R.

Why, do you talk about organic chemistry?

set it to a simple password so a spammer can get hold of it for a few months

Organics? In *my* mod?

That's a paddlin'

5:03 PM

@Cereal its mostly geeky stuff

M.A.R.

@KevinB I bet it's just "password"

@Gwideon ooh, 2D? 3D? Share it when you're done!

....

actually the password on my mobile hotspot is password ;p

2d. It's an animatic based on a couple of dnd characters I have. I will definitely share it

I will say this it's not a professional project so it may not look amazing but um yeah. It's pretty good for my level of skill.

@Gwideon I guarantee you I'll be impressed. Animation of any kind is a ton of work and I'm sure it looks great. I couldn't even begin to do a project like that.

5:10 PM

okay. I might have it done tomorrow. we'll see how it goes

When I was in highschool or middleschool, I used to animate stick figures fighting with a software called Pivot.

I wonder if that still exists...

Hah it does. That's awesome

I'm mostly using photo shop and the puppet warp tool

5:57 PM

@JourneymanGeek Mind using your mod powers to search for a deleted post titled "A retag? An Organizer badge?" It'll save me tremendous amounts of time.

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/311668/…

@JourneymanGeek Thanks!

np

I was almost going to ask you if you needed a screenshot

then realised you hit 10k

No, I just needed a link

I remembered having interacted with that post and wanted to remember what I did to it so I could take the right actions on a much newer post

Marc.2377

Why do some users have MSFT after their name on SE? What does that mean exactly?

That they own shares to Microsoft?

6:12 PM

They're misfits.

Actually, the few I looked at all seem to be working for Microsoft, so maybe that's why.

Marc.2377

a'ight

6:32 PM

@Nobody I don't know if you're still here, but just saw this and wanted to say thanks for that. I hope you find peace. Your brumby and horses need you and I trust that they bring you quite a bit of happiness. I hope you can bask in that and that doing so helps you with the stress from here.

user271002

@MonicaCellio Hi! Thank you for making that Tyler's Tech interview.

@Sklivvz they could have done that weeks ago, but they've opted for the silent treatment instead. :-(

6

@Loong thanks! Tyler contacted me after reading the Register article, and after I checked out the body of work I agreed to talk.

user271002

nice

@MonicaCellio it's great fun putting a voice to the avatar :)

Although, admittedly, "fun" isn't a word I've associated with any of this.

6:48 PM

@terdon true.

fbueckert

Personally, it's been exhausting. I'd actually rather deal with my idiot solar company than keep taking the hits being dealt by SE.

They, at least, I can nail to the wall with the amount of evidence I have against them.

@terdon I was initially skittish about this. I know I don't speak nearly as well as I write, and sometimes I get tongue-tied, and editing isn't really feasible (other than "cut that section entirely" edits). So I was nervous, but it came out ok. Whew.

@fbueckert Yeah. And seeing how exhausting it's been for me (we've not really stopped talking about this and the associated issues for a month), I can only imagine how it must be for Monica.

Public speaking and I have a...difficult relationship.

@MonicaCellio It came out fine (I'm about 3/4 of the way through).

6:50 PM

@terdon it's been pretty terrible, yeah. :-(

@terdon thanks.

And, like, yeah I needed to lose some weight, but not like this.

fbueckert

@terdon Worse, nothing has changed.

I visit meta a lot more than before. That changed

Not sure that's a good thing ;)

for who

Too much Meta isn't healthy for anyone

10

7:03 PM

That's apparent

7:24 PM

Hey, as long as I'm here, question for the room and particularly those who are tuned into the LGBTQ+ community. For the charity fallback (in case we raise more funds than we need), I'm considering The Trevor Project, which has top marks including 100% accountability on Charity Navigator. Does anybody know a reason they would not be a good choice?

7

I want to focus on organizations providing services, and sadly these services are very much needed.

@MonicaCellio I think you should also (in addition) donate a part of it to Asexual Outreach. Most of these umbrella LGBTQIA+ groups put too little emphasis on the A aspect.

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a look.

I searched the Trevor Project's website, and while there is a page on asexuality, there isn't much on the site to show real support for it.

Basically, the overall thinking is, "people should express their feelings, and only one way". Most of these organizations advocate, "what if we want to express it a different way?", and leave behind the people who say "what if we don't want to express it at all?"

7:41 PM

It's based in the UK, but I've heard good things about Mermaids.

ento

My thoughts after listening to Tyler's Tech interview: I'll be extra sad if asking questions was interpreted as a sign of dissent, because that happens to me more often than I like. I'll be extra-extra sad if that's because that mode of communication - asking direct questions - is in the minority.

@ento You'd think a network based around questions would be more open to people asking questions.

5

nvm

They aren't accepting donations

@MonicaCellio asexual isn't exactly non binary

So... Had a friend who was.

is?

7:43 PM

And even if they were, Monica says she wants to donate to organizations providing services, and the one I mentioned is much closer to that.

anyway, might still be

trueeeee

my bad

Asexuals have gender (and you can be a gay, romantic asexual, or aromantic/asexual and identify as any gender)

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Who, Mermaids? There's a donate button on their homepage.

(I'm also running half asleep so if I make no sense just ignore me)

@Stevoisiak The one in Geek's deleted message

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Ah, ok

JTP - Apologise to Monica

7:46 PM

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog yeah, running this on a side bar, and half asleep ;p

I suck

2

user474678

Someone write a sequel to meta.stackexchange.com/questions/336526/… that's titled "Stack Exchange is being monetized; it's time to fix it!"

@MonicaCellio - that looks like a good charity. I also have GLAD.org on my donor list.

8:01 PM

@JL2210 It'd be a duplicate of this.

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog .... ten points to whatever house that blue hedgehog is from

@JourneymanGeek ?

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog .... that was a joke right?

@JourneymanGeek I couldn't understand what you meant by that statement

@SonictheReinstateMonica-hog Was a reference to harry potter

8:05 PM

Oh, that.

The house is "Team Sonic"

Then the others are "Team Dark", "Team Rose", and "Team Chaotix".

@MonicaCellio I'm not sure how much any of this (or future) outrage even registers as a blip to the company. They don't seem particularly motivated. Could be that meta influence isn't as mighty as everyone had hoped.

>_>

wrong room is wrong

that was pretty amusing

hah

djsmiley2k - CoW

8:24 PM

o/

Machavity

Well, this story sounds depressingly familiar

i mean, rules are rules, :shrug:

Mysticial

8:40 PM

@Machavity So you're not the only one who sees the random parallels of the recent SE drama and Hong Kong.

djsmiley2k - CoW

It'll be the fall of companies, who've forgotten who their customers are

and users, who've forgotten they are the product.

then again that's nothing to do with HK

and only partially to do with whats happened on se.

Mysticial

@djsmiley2k-CoW It's nothing to do with HK, nor is the comparison necessarily a good one at the top-level. But there's a ton of random small things which do line up well.

djsmiley2k - CoW

8:55 PM

I meant my comparision, to both. Not nessicarrily the comparison between them

9:20 PM

Today I learned that I can delete, at most, 20 of my own comments per day, per site. Seems an interesting rule considering how often we're told that comments are, "ephemeral."

and with this, you join an elite group of people who have ever even tried to do this

FWIW, the actual rules are a bit more subtle than that. You can both post, and delete, an effectively unlimited quantity of comments, but... Timing is important.

ah

I built in a 3 second pause between each deletion (on top of the XHR round-trip)

apparently that wasn't enough

it was not

I don't quite get what the idea behind detaching sites from under control of SE corporation and becoming a self-hosted "partner" site, like what problems does this solve and what problems it creates, is there an overview of that somewhere on meta?

like with math, what are the effects

@user1306322 they probably get more control over libraries and stuff they can leverage without having to work within SE's new "one size fits all" spec.

9:23 PM

have they done something other sites could really use? like some cool moderation tools only available there coz they developed it for themselves?

libraries as in .dll or ...?

@user1306322 quite simply, they don't trust the company

@Shog9 womp. I'll put thirty seconds in there next time... unless you want to just tell me what to use. ;)

also won't help

@JourneymanGeek to do what exactly? what was the original reason for detachment?

@Shog9 has to be interspersed with other activity, you mean?

9:24 PM

So basically that takes away the broader communty management stuff from the company

nope

search meta, I feel like I've explained this somewhere...

So there's a few different ways people want to go

I'm trying to figure out in cases of which sites detachment like math did can improve things and where it will be worse, and how exactly

oh

@user1306322 MO is an independant site

historical data of math's example can help :p

9:25 PM

in some cases - you have sites that started off externally and have an agreement to use SE's platform

MO's old

I was interested in the proposition of this post but OP didn't exactly do a solid writeup of pros and cons here (current version of the post): meta.stackexchange.com/questions/337328/…

@user1306322 OP wants to basically build a buzzword compliant system ;p

So arguably one of the issues with SE is we're dependant on the whims of the current management

ye so I've read, one other example is russian SO clone which turned official but is still under control of some extra layer of management (their CM), there's a whole thing on their meta about it atm if anyone's interested

@Shog9 as if it's searchable, you sadist.

@Shog9 did you shave your eyebrows? :p

9:28 PM

naw

@user1306322 the former hashcode is pretty much a 'standard' SE international site at this point

also what does the quote in chat bio mean? not sure if it's entirely grammatical

whose?

shog-san's

google it

9:29 PM

@Shog9 "shog sans eyebrows" tippity-tap

shog sans sounds like a font

I'm not a religious scripture understanding person, so that's going right past me unfortunately

@user1306322 (this was really a stretch but I'm glad it actually came through, no matter how horribly far fetched the pun is)

also it's been some time since I last replied to myself

@JourneymanGeek that's be shog sans serif

@Shog9 are you without serif?

Shog Sans Sheriff?

... rock the casbah

9:34 PM

@user1306322 there will be a time when a society becomes as a a tree in winter, barren and dead. When no words or actions will matter. But as a tree appears dead but may still live and regrow, so this society will return in due time.

It is... A curse and a promise.

Well, Microsoft Q&A looks awfully familiar. I, for one, welcome our new Q&A overlords.

ew

@Shog9 thanks for explaining coz I wouldn't have got that on my own tonight

There are other interpretations; other meanings. I don't know how long that has been in my profile, and it is likely I had something else in mind when I added it.

But... As I gaze out my window at the barren trees, the snow and brown grass...

I feel as though I am dying, and surrounded by death.

@Shog9 You're not wrong.

9:43 PM

And must remind myself that a kernel of life remains, and will regrow in time.

how about this wall of text for a spark of life lol:

Winter is at hand; there will be hardship and pain. But it will not last forever.

I'm thinking what if a new independent Indie-SE or whatever appeared and would not be a straight up rival but a partner by sharing logins, 100 rep association bonus, notifications and all the official SE 2.0 functionality, but also was open-source and allowed members to push requests on github for those long coveted mod tool improvements (not to mention a different management)

As I'm seeing it, most people have the biggest problem with "a new SE-like site" because it's gonna be new, with 0 popularity and very low initial trust.

I could post it on the site proper but since we're all here anyway :p

@user1306322 but if we did that, it would be SE. Also, the open sourcedness means possibly building your own...

> From what I understand there is a huge (or extra narrow) bottleneck in SE's staff capacity of human interaction.

And that's really a problem I'd love to see addressed

90% of these SE-like sites are already inter-compatible in most areas, now if only they actually cooperated... (well, I don't care about those scraping clones that are only in it for ad showings)

9:48 PM

But that's going to need a lot of examination of what we (in terms of what I term the core community) actually mean to the company

why is that important?

how exactly/to whom

@user1306322 well - that determines the investment or lack thereof, and the direction the company takes with respect to us

which in turn, hopefully helps build up trust

what I'm feeling in the wind is another site is already in the works, but the question is would they like to cooperate together in the future, and what's the cost-benefit analysis of that gonna show

@user1306322 a new site wouldn't need SE

i don't see a separation as something that will "solve" the problems that people seem to have. People seem to want change... but also seem to be unsure what that change should look like. you've got people who just want to be left alone to help lost souls asking questions, you've got people wanting to provide top tier answers who can't find questions worth of them, people who want to help others ask better questions, people who want to protect the content they've provided, etc. etc..

9:51 PM

I know, but partnerships are possible, and I'd like to explore this avenue of growth (growth for both sites)

a new site is hardly going to solve any of those problems any faster than SE would

@KevinB which is true

@KevinB they'd basically need to replicate at least a year of work on the platform

or up to a decade

@JourneymanGeek what sort of work do you mean?

@user1306322 SO took about a year in private beta?

well, SE isn't going to just provide the platform they've built to a community that will compete with them for traffic...

that's silly

9:53 PM

Are people talking about making a new site or something?

And if you were going to go FOSS, you might take a few different decisons

Already happened.

so the alternative is a new site being built from scratch

@TheforestofReinstateMonica hypothetically ;p

It's called "Stack Overflow Teams"

9:54 PM

Wouldn't work.

eh, no, teams isn't being given away

and isn't competing for regular q/a traffic

lol

@KevinB of course not, there's a lot of legacy code and closed source things they wouldn't want anyone to see, and nobody wants that

you are kind of right with your first point, but the second doesn't hold any weight

The thing is, public SO got way too uppity. More people focused on removing content than creating it.

@user1306322 I'd take bets on how easy it would be to steal the source code. :P

9:55 PM

err, i don't know what you mean

what are the two points?

i only see oen point in my last reply?

I don't think it's going to take more than 6 months to get 100% of core SE site functionality coded and running.

@TheforestofReinstateMonica why would you though?

@TheforestofReinstateMonica why though, I just explained how nobody wants it >.<

@JourneymanGeek Boredom or looking for vulns, I guess.

@Kevin - Kind of having a hard time believing that you don't see your two points. Maybe re-read.

9:56 PM

which message?

You said them afterall!

lol

@TheforestofReinstateMonica SE's code has a decade of quirks

and an unusual platform

the real value is in the data

Private or public data?

Public ofc

when SO was in development there weren't many great examples to copy, now everyone knows what SO looks like, so it's not going to take as much time

9:56 PM

@TheforestofReinstateMonica public

You could bootstrap a new site based off what's here

SO will fix its issues though. Shog said so. I has faith.

and we can all get the archives of all user content already, and reuse on the sites with proper attribution with no legal problems

Yeah but... under CC BY-SA 3.0 or 4.0?

Getting the topicality in order will smooth all of this out.

@TravisJ faith manages. But only to a point

9:57 PM

I agree

It wouldn't be good to keep digging the illicit hole SE has dug.

@TheforestofReinstateMonica 3.0 of course where reasonable, otherwise 2.5 as it should have been

Faith needs to be rewarded sometimes.

@TheforestofReinstateMonica you know all about digging.

all newest contributions after the date 4.0 was made official would be 4.0

9:58 PM

@user1306322 I think the vast majority is 3.0, as most content was added after it became 3.0.

@user1306322 Indeed, as per the ToS.

I feel like the updated close reason messaging is a step towards that direction though, and he said here in chat that they would be addressing some of the close reason issues, so I am at least interested in seeing what develops.

Updated close reason?