« first day (3373 days earlier)      last day (1723 days later) » 

11:00 AM
The "western media/legal playbook" might mitigate some risk, but it's no expression of boldness or leadership.
@M.A.R. I mean, if this situation had been allowed to get back from the brink at any point before a case is filled...
And you're not supposed to say "nope" UGH
and surprisingly the press has more of an effect on IPO prices then disgruntled core members
Goes director crazy
@M.A.R. yup
11:00 AM
@M.A.R. Imagine the register's cleverly alliterative title
stealing @M.A.R's food
Ever since when has SE cared about the press? All I see online about SE is "how they keep closing my questions and downvoting me"
Ofc I know better
@JourneymanGeek "This is why SO sucks"?
@UnitatosaysReinstateMonica they spoke to the press....
So some people do ;p
@JourneymanGeek and thats what made it really infuriating
@Shadow OK that's nice artistic liberties you took there! Keep going
Falsely accusing Monica
Pat on the back
11:02 AM
random very unrelated question
Q: Why Japan cannot "apologize" enough for World War 2?

GravitonAlthough Japan kept "apologizing" for World War 2 for over 70++ years, but the apologies were deemed not sincere enough by the victims. This stands in huge contrast with Germany, who also perpetuated crimes during World War 2, but has since apologized and moved on. Why is it that Japan cannot ...

@M.A.R. careful, I'm eating!
Quite honestly, I'm a strong believer that any flowery words like "sorry", "please forgive me" and other bullshit is irelevant
In cultural anthropology, the distinction between a guilt society (or guilt culture), shame society (also shame culture or honor-shame culture), and a fear society (or culture of fear) has been used to categorize different cultures. The differences can apply to how behavior is governed with respect to government laws, business rules, or social etiquette. This classification has been applied especially to apollonian societies, sorting them according to the emotions they use to control individuals (especially children) and maintaining social order, swaying them into norm obedience and conformity...
A true apology is where you undo damage and compensate for it
@UnitatosaysReinstateMonica but they always are
11:03 AM
> This question is too basic
Very inaccurate! Chemist objection!
Same with the bad ads: in the beginning, SE staff would pop by after reporting some scam/porn ad on SE and say "sorry, we took it down, thanks for the report". But they stopped doing even that.
@MetaAndrewT. there is also America, who sent a set of origami cranes as a "get better" gift to Japan after the Fukushima incident....
I turned on my ublock origin
Because 1) they're not sorry, and 2) Those ads will keep appearing.
Poor Sadako would have been really happy, I guess....
11:05 AM
And 3) they don't want to lose more rep. ;)
how is SO community reacting to this?
since that is their cash cow
if too many mods in SO withdraw participation
Newbies aren't affected yet, I think.
it would take a big hit
ofc, newbs dont care about meta stuff
they only want their code
11:06 AM
But bad comments now exist for longer time.
So it's kind of back to year ago.
I hope there are many more non mods with close vote perms also withdrawing
if the review queues get filled up
like roboreviewers
although for a few selfish "badge hunters" this would be a paradise
@SPArchaeologist-様 kawaii Sadako is kawaii, though...
In Hawaii?
Shadow disconnected due to inactivity
oh hi
I was here the whole time
@MetaAndrewT. Sadako Sasaki, not Sadako Yamamura
11:19 AM
@UnitatosaysReinstateMonica stalker :D
Microwave beeping. Cya!
Nah. beeep. beeep. beeep.
Three beeps huh
My microwave does 4
slightly messes with my OCD
11:26 AM
OMG OMG OMG what does it mean what does it mean
@UnitatosaysReinstateMonica wait... maybe mine too. Will listen next time.... :D
the fourth beep is like "arfgggh whyyy"
Anyway that's what it spewed out:
11:27 AM
It's probably some sort of cake
They love cakes
@M.A.R. Nope
Not this time... ;)
Oh but tbh wheat cakes are better than the "rice cakes"
Who has rice with . . . whatever you're having rice with?
@UnitatosaysReinstateMonica Agree to disagree
11:28 AM
I once tried eating rice with those chocolate twisters
it was a weird feeling
But I do eat rice cakes with Nutella spread
Rice, chicken, and a Moses in the Cradle.
I don't wanna know about that Moses guy (I hope he's fine) but OK, everyone loves rice with chicken
In India, I eat rice with mutton, crab, shrimp, fish
in addition to chicken
But no cow, right?
11:31 AM
my religion forbids me from eating beef
Now I want shrimps.
... seems we are at 6k now.
6k shrimps?
I wanna see a shrimpnado
Grilled shrimpnado. Thank you.
yup shrimps are yum
Although I did eat one at TGI Fridays when I used to live in USA
hated it
I think its about how I am not used to eating food that fully cooked
medium and rare doesnt sit with me
11:36 AM
@SPArchaeologist-様 my 100 are still missing until I can coerce gofundme into taking my debit card
@UnitatosaysReinstateMonica A shrimp?
Hmm. I don't know, we don't usually eat much shrimps as I still live at home and mom hates seafood :(
But . . . Vitamin D (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Us here are said not to eat enough seafood so we're recommended vitamin D supplements.
@JourneymanGeek or other mods: Have y'all been told any timeline for a follow up
or is nothing more known?
Little tweak: Vit D here is 50000 UI, instead of the normal 1000 or 500 UI pills.
@mag Nothing I can share.
11:39 AM
Not even a kitten gif?
Cryptic as ever...
@JourneymanGeek even the followup plans are confidential now?
what is this
Or maybe a gif of sunflowers dancing in the wind
@Shadow He has his sunglasses on. I can tell because I have my sunglasses on
Adverb: this (not comparable)
  1. To the degree or extent indicated.
  2. I need this much water.
  3. Do we need this...
@mag Basically I have no idea
@mag this is not comparable to anything
Now if you ask "Honey, what's wrong?" then, it's a duplicate. -1
11:42 AM
seems like my pessimism wasn't misplaced after all
All of it is real at one dimension or another
@mag because mods can't share private info?
Anything posted in TL is private and mods sign something that forbids them to share it.
God I love how we can ruin other universes in our stories but suddenly say "oh OK, don't worry audience, it's another dimension! Haha"
I didn't ask for any private info
just if something else was planned
no details
> Have y'all been told any timeline for a follow up
Suppose SE staff said something about it in TL. It's private.
11:44 AM
but is the existance of it private or just the content
Deep question.
That's for the mod to judge, and I count on @Journeyman to make the right decision. :)
let's not play 20 questions around private info
fair enough
it just seems like the thing we get to do now is wait for a lawsuit to shake out and nothing else
@Shadow no we don't
@JAD we can guess the color of my shirt instead. :P
11:46 AM
@mag @Shadow I suggest relying on the cheerfulness canary
@Shadow not to play devil advocate, but if it was something private discussed only in TL, then Journey shouldn't know anymore.
If there's good news I can share, I bloody well will share it
we just have a gentlemens' agreement that we don't share stuff
@Shadow sparkly purple
@SPArchaeologist-様 I'm still a mod
11:46 AM
(gentlefolks' agreement?)
@SPArchaeologist-様 still an SU mod
@JourneymanGeek you resigned only on one site?
You know, that site that sits there and no one talks about but everyone uses
@SPArchaeologist-様 MSE got the biggest hit
@SPArchaeologist-様 AFAIK, the resignation on MSE was mostly unrelated to this drama
11:47 AM
Yes and no
@M.A.R. Sports.SE?
@JAD Indirectly
But it's Journey's story to share
@JAD maybe, but I did understand he resigned on every site, not just MSE
@Shadow 3D printing
11:47 AM
It ends with someone in wheelchairs
@SPArchaeologist-様 you understood incorrectly
And has no punchline
@JourneymanGeek Sorry, I shouldn't talk for you
@SPArchaeologist-様 where you got that impression?
@Shadow oh, just assumed it.
11:48 AM
@SPArchaeologist-様 sounds like me. ;)
I assume way too much. :(
@Shadow when the whole world is on fire an untouched twig is left unnoticed
SU is hardly a twig lol
Journey is a twig . . . fetcher
I just got an email from Canon in German. Is that good
@Canon no hard feelings dude/person, I wasn't using the account anyway
I even assumed @mag was from India at some point, I think. lol
Nov 7 '18 at 15:01, by Shadow Wizard
@Magisch this reminds me, another reason I originally thought you're from India is your messages about low salary; I assumed in Europe programmers always earn tons of money, and know for sure that in India the salaries are usually low, so I made 1+1. :)
@SPArchaeologist-様 I expected this to blow over in a few days
and figured I'd take a break through the worst of it
11:53 AM
@Shadow See, you should have put two and two together instead
@JourneymanGeek the next one will be even longer
and the one after that even longer
Well if the underlying issues are not fixed, sure
there has been no indication they will be or that they even consider them issues, and plenty of indication to the contrary
benefit of the doubt only works if you don't remove all doubt
@Snow brews a cup of Cappuccino for @Snow
11:57 AM
@mag brews a cup of jasmine tea for @mag
Smokey is still selfish then.
!!/tea mag
@Snow brews a cup of mint tea for @mag
mint tea! my favorite. Thanks @Snow
11:59 AM
@M.A.R. 5
@Snow No such command 'toastedbagel'.
@Shadow typical layman response
Monica's GoFundMe reached its goal in less than 24 hours. gofundme.com/f/stop-stack-overflow-from-defaming-its-users
It's still open though
12:01 PM
The funny thing about this is that Stack Overflow had lots of chances to walk-back what it did before it got to this point; but as I understand it, their general counsel left a while back, and are relying on (not sure who) for legal advice. (I'm not sure they have a lawyer on staff, though I hope they do).
That's not really a funny thing, but yes. Monica gave them every opportunity to walk away from their decision and save face
But, whomever they're relying on for legal advice has probably advised them that they should just not engage at all. I have no firm knowledge of this, only their actions -- which seem to suggest their strategy is to be quiet and hope it blows over.
@GeorgeStocker wait what?
@JourneymanGeek As I understand it, their general counsel left around 9 months ago? Maybe a little less?
Yup. Totally unaware of that
12:03 PM
@GeorgeStocker My best interpretation of their actions is a educated bet. They don't think they did anything wrong and don't think Monica can summon the funds to fight a full blown non-sure defamation case.
I try my best to follow what's going on. My information could be wrong, but that's what I remember hearing.
Q: New Post Notices rollout on Stack Overflow

Yaakov EllisAs has been previously announced, we have been working for some time on a full refresh for post notices. I am happy to announce that all initial development work and testing has been completed, and that the new notices are now live on Stack Overflow. During our initial launch period these will ...

@mag well, at least in the US it doesn't look good for a defamation suit prevailing; but that's where the lawyers are the best people to talk to.
@GeorgeStocker I honestly have no idea but I find it quite saddening we're at the point where "not defamation by the letter of the law" seems a defensible course of action for SE
@mag I mean, when you start talking legalities, thats' what you're asking for.
whether we want that to be the case or not
12:06 PM
> What is the average air speed of an unladen swallow?
What do you mean? An African or a European Swallow?

European, of course
Approximately 24 - 25 miles per hour
So they do have an airspeed? That's good to know. I thought it was like a quantum experiment -- by the time you knew which one they were talking about the question was over and you'd never need to tknow the answer.
In other news (somewhat related) a Judge has reinstated part of the Covington defamation suit -- not because of the opinion based things said about the student, but about a factual matter -- whether or not the student was 'blocked' from leaving.
@GeorgeStocker I think that the problem there isn't the suit, it is the eventuality of Twitter picking up that "a Stack Exchange user had to sue SE for defamation".
12:10 PM
@SPArchaeologist-様 No doubt. It seems like (according to how I'm seeing things transpire); that SE Inc is less worried about the optics of not resolving the issue than they are the legal quandries of trying to resolve it.
Which is a problem a general counsel would help with.
@SPArchaeologist-様 you can spin that in an entirely different way if you want to, though
IF they really wanted to resolve it, everyone present (including Monica's detractors) has given them clear guidance on how to fix things.
@mag oh yep, quite sure of it... it is just one possible scenario. But if that happens and the story goes viral... Good luck, I guess.
yet, crickets
@M.A.R. not in the test group :(
12:14 PM
@MetaAndrewT. what test group? It's live on SO.
They don't announce in advance anymore, for looong time.
> During our initial launch period the new post notices (and all related changes) are being shown to 50% of users.
@MetaAndrewT. oh. That's plain silly, IMO, sorry. So why announce it? Why mislead us? meh
Wait for the A/B test results, and announce properly.
I regret using closed:1 with 'active' sort too :D
12:42 PM
How about automatically notifying new users a specific meta FAQ post to go through?
I mean a FR
@Shadow They recently started an unannounced A/B test on SO. That didn't go down too well.
@Raedwald still, now it's not really a valid A/B test.
Either show it to all users, or wait with the announcement.
@Pandya How? Where? It's very tricky.
New users already see walls of links/text and pretty much ignore all of it.
@Shadow First of all visit the similar FR which was status-completed.
@Shadow What I am talking about is: When new user joins the community, we notify him to go through tour to get one badge called "inform", right?
so this is one step to give new user a change to get familiar with how SE works before s/he posts an answer.
The linked FR post works when a user tries to post an answer first time.
Now, my idea is to automatically notify or popup new user to visit How does a new user get started on Hinduism SE? when one joins the community @Shadow
12:59 PM
@GeorgeStocker reminds me of when they were so afraid of the legal issues of upgrading a license version for everything retroactively that they just ... went with it anyways without batting an eye.
@Pandya there's already auto notification when someone creates a new account:
Adding another one would be noisy, IMO.
@JohnDvorak without anyone to tell them, I'm pretty sure they simply had no idea it can lead to legal issues.
Various suggestions have been made to force new uses towards the Tour. The usual objection, IIRC, is that users who don't want to read it will just click through without reading: it will achieve nothing.
@Shadow Right. How about notifying this on the next day? Haha
If only somebody told them. If only.
@JohnDvorak if only they would announce on meta before making changes, yeah. It could have saved them tons of time and money by now.
But no.... they change/break first, and only then tell, sometimes only in response to bug report. (e.g. "No bug, we changed it on purpose")
1:06 PM
An idea just came in my mind: Until user reached to 500 reputation, there should be a space in user profile which gives random tips by linking help-center pages and meta FAQ customizable by mods :)
Moving fast and breaking things is okay, but you have to fix them afterwards!
@Pandya as if that ever works :)
Consider this as proposed welcome wagon !!
@Shadow you (most certainly) still have a song to listen to.
(also, people barely ever visit their user profiles)
@JohnDvorak I feel most of new users don't bother to learn SE model. My idea is to suggest improvements in this area and attract users towards learning SE.
1:13 PM
@Pandya That would piss off so many people, particularly on meta.
@SPArchaeologist-様 innocent whistle
@Shadow I think that you would like it. Someone should show it to a certain company...
@Shadow watch the video
You said listen to the song. Please decide.
1:21 PM
@JohnDvorak It makes a whole lot more sense if you look at it through the lens of "We don't have a general counsel to bounce this off of."
so adam fancoeur doesn't work there anymore?
adam was general counsel, no?
No idea... how you know?
Maybe they could use the community as a general counsel?
1:23 PM
@JohnDvorak lol
@GeorgeStocker You don't need a lawyer on your staff to get legal advice, though.
For them meta is just mob.
@mag that's weird. According to his LinkedIn, he still is.
so they do have corporate counsel to bounce things off of
But also self employed, so probably charge per case... and a lot. lol
So, possible reason for the silence:
SE: Hey [name of consultant], think we should do something here?
Consultant: Give me [amount of money here] and I'll get back with an answer in 6-8 days.
So, SE is too cheap/poor to afford a hourly counsel, doesn't have a full-time one for the same reason, and the community is a bunch of whiny folks whose legal opinion isn't worth the server space it's stored on?
1:29 PM
@JohnDvorak you nailed it
You don't need a lawyer to get quasi legal advice. Much of what an HR department does is related to matters of employment law, for example.
Although it does seem to be a USAian view that once something is in anyway legalistic, only a lawyer can given you useable advice
@Raedwald That is borne out of the fact that if you don't sufficiently disclaim the nature of legal advice, you can be sued and prosecuted for practicing law without a license
in essence, only lawyers are allowed to give legal advice. And if the advice is really bad, you can sue the lawyer for detrimental reliance
Essentially a modern day guild
@mag I guess the US has a rather broad meaning of "give legal advice" that is not permitted.
No, but they're a lot more litigation happy then for instance europeans, and everyone is avoiding to get sued by any means
to the point where clearly reprehensible policies are implemented to stave off lawsuits
1:40 PM
Time for more coffee, it's free!
@Shadow brews a cup of Affogato for @Shadow
@Bart brews a cup of jQuery for @Bart
Javascript is not Java!
1:42 PM
Tastes like Starbucks.
@MetaAndrewT. brews a cup of Espresso for @MetaAndrewT.
@Shadow at this point I am fine with "read the lyrics"
2:25 PM
@Bart that's right, we make bucks like stars ;)
@FélixGagnon-Grenier brews a cup of Espresso for @FélixGagnon-Grenier
right on point Smoke.
Coffee!! :D
@Tinkeringbell brews a cup of Macchiato for @Tinkeringbell
Almost right :)
2:28 PM
@Bart brews a cup of Cappuccino for @Bart
Yes, finally!
careful with all that coffee
starts bouncing you were saying?
I wish I had some strong alcohol to put in
2:37 PM
parrots dont bounce, they fly
@mag they have someone who hasn’t updated the “i no longer work here” on their LinkedIn profile.
If you throw them hard enough they bounce
that escalated quickly
@GeorgeStocker then you have more information then me
@Bart EY!
2:39 PM
@Tinkeringbell you didn't want to come over here for a completely normal experiment in the LHC, so this is what I'd have to resort to.
Actually... I'm kinda curious to see the inside of an LHC, but if I recall correctly, you were having more nefarious plans in mind than just a tour of the facilities... you messed up your own chances here by letting me know the evil plan...
(there must be a tv trope about that)
I thought angry birds had given everyone the opportunity to fully live their bird-throwing fantasies
@mag I’m basing that off of that I’ve done the same thing in the past — put together a new job without updating my linked in profile for the old one. It’s an easy mistake to make, and for people that don’t spend their life on LinkedIn, even easier to miss.
2:59 PM
Wait ... you do a test and Evan appears? How does that work?
we had ...
Language Mr. Carroll ...
This is under control. Comparatively.
3:01 PM
Coming in like this and with such language is not ok
@Bart That wasn't what I was testing for >_>
@JourneymanGeek well, it's still your fault. Be careful the next time.
He's back everyone :D
You spawned a monster!
Ellen Spertus on October 29, 2019

I agree with the saying: “If you’re not embarrassed by your old code then you aren’t progressing as a programmer.” I began programming recreationally more than 40 years ago and professionally more than 30 years ago, so I have made a lot of mistakes. As a computer science professor, I encourage students to learn from mistakes, whether their own, mine, or famous examples. I feel it’s time to shine a light on my own mistakes to keep myself humble and in the hope that someone can learn from them.

I had a high school English teacher who argued that Romeo and Juliet was not a tragedy, since the prota …

3:03 PM
@JourneymanGeek Seems like that test failed.
Test had unexpected responses
@EvanCarroll Not the appropriate way to bring it up
If you have an issue with moderation, I must insist you bring it up the appropriate way.
And certainly not here.
And using the "Contact Us" form is the appropriate way here.
Yup. And I am sure you know where that is by now.
... Since that bypasses moderators and goes right for the horse.
nobody has a right to be unpleasant in this chatroom either
3:06 PM
Hmmm .... leaves ....
damnit, I mist all the heat.
I've been linking to this FAQ a lot in the past few days: What recourse do I have if I believe a moderator has abused their privileges?. Essentially: to appeal, raise a flag. Complaining on MSE of Chat is not the recommended approach. And if you don't think they abused their privileges, well just accept the deletion/temporary suspension.
@FélixGagnon-Grenier It was barely tepid.
@mag Also - I got reinstated. Apparently through the new process
3:07 PM
@JourneymanGeek Ooooh. Shiney!
@FélixGagnon-Grenier it didn't really ignite, sorry.
I'm looking forward to once again throwing off topic posts to the wolves to the dogs
The joke being I found out when I opened a new tab and saw the flag queue
@JourneymanGeek LOL. I got an email congratulating me on winning an election.
3:09 PM
@JourneymanGeek Does that make you the first?
@JourneymanGeek You saw how much the Parrot and that other dog had been slacking?
@rene eh, they're difficult decisions
@Raedwald I can neither confirm nor deny
@JourneymanGeek select all, decline! No?
now we know why rene isn't a mod...
Oh, some of them have value
3:10 PM
(it's actually because he refuses to run I'd totally vote for rene)
@Snow maybe they re-ran the Opa-vote thing again and you came out as winner?
@rene I have no idea. I get the feeling that some things are somewhat manual (since they're not done that often).
3:27 PM
No point in drawing extra attention to it
1 message moved to Trashcan
@Cerbrus fair enough
Yay, flowery seal of approval
rene is no seal
arf! <clap clap> arf!
3:56 PM
peeking inside Tavern
throwing popcorn away

« first day (3373 days earlier)      last day (1723 days later) »