Tavern on the Meta

Shadow

11:05 AM

@Pandya and new account?

Something like merge or deleting then recreating your account can cause such issue for Area 51

Or even becoming a mod, lol... the codebase of Area 51 is so old and fragile, that anything can break it.

BTW the room in your About Me is loooong time frozen. @Pan

Pandya

@Shadow Just created another account : area51.stackexchange.com/users/205796

202324

11:20 AM

shitshow expanding off MSE

Shadow

@Pandya cheers! Just make sure to not use it by mistake instead of your real account when browsing other sites in SE. :)

(as you might upvote by mistake twice)

@202324 umm...

182

Q: "Dear Stack Exchange, I am very disappointed in you" - How to construct a strong opening line in a letter?

In light of recent events, I intended to write a simple letter of complaint to StackExchange. The obvious thing to do would be to write an opening with the fact such as It came to my knowledge that a long-standing member and moderator of the Writing.SE community, among others, has been dismis...

202324

that badge-avatar makes me sick

is an oath against privacy

Shadow

??

ohh

Didn't notice. Really. lol

What privacy?? Of Monica?

202324

contributes to the damages far beyond the originals, many many more than to reparation. It's so wrong.

That's so wrong. :(

Shadow

@202324 I disagree, but feel free to flag and it might be reset.

IMO it's no different from the "bring back the old 404 error page" on SO. SE made unpopular move, people complain about it via their avatars.

202324

11:27 AM

last time I reported an offensive avatar... the only thing am aware of is my own suspension, so I'm not directly attacking avatars for now

rene

maybe it was the wording in your flag?

Shadow

@202324 I respect your opinion and the fact you don't like that avatar, but you should also respect those who are fine with the avatar.

202324

@Shadow complaining is not wrong. Writing real names in badges is. Monica Cellio is not Charlie Hebdo.

Shadow

Anyway.....

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@Shadow brews a cup of Espresso for @Shadow

202324

11:28 AM

@rene no, were the ten flags with identical content. :P

Shadow

@202324 no idea who Charlie Hebdo is, and Monica put herself in the spotlight long ago.

rene

@Shadow Paris ...

Shadow

@202324 Another idea: ask @Monica herself if she's fine with using such an avatar. If she is fine, leave it alone, if she's not fine with it, I'll flag it myself. :)

202324

@Shadow doesn't justify those who irresponsibly raise their voices without really knowing if it's for a greater good or for a greater evil

Ansgar Wiechers

@Shadow A french satirical magazine, whose office was the target of an islamistic attack in 2015.

202324

11:30 AM

@Shadow no, not our call. I mean I was just commenting that makes me sick, I wasn't actually complaining. Feel free to trash away everything.

Shadow

@202324 I'm not RO and can't see anything here that needs trashing. :)

@AnsgarWiechers oh, I remember now. The case, not the name.

202324

show me some meerkats, elephants, whatever.

Shadow

@202324 turtles?

202324

Hyppos. Hyppos are dangerous.

@Shadow turtles are boring. Baby turtles are cute.

Baby turtles spawning from the beach towards the sea. What a classic.

Shadow

@202324 they are! During a guided visit with my daughter to Israel's national safari, the guide told a story about a kid who almost got killed by a hippo. :/

Ismael Miguel

11:34 AM

greetings, i have a few questions about the new code of conduct

are those okay to ask here?

Shadow

@IsmaelMiguel depends

Just stay civil and don't mention any names.

202324

@IsmaelMiguel general friendly chit-chat

Ismael Miguel

i'm mostly looking for opinions on the questions

alright

202324

@IsmaelMiguel may be varied

don't expect a single framework of opinion here

Ismael Miguel

2nd

Shadow

11:35 AM

@IsmaelMiguel not a good start....

Ismael Miguel

if disengaging is against the code

Shadow

But let's hear the second?

202324

@IsmaelMiguel aye potentially will be flagged...

Ismael Miguel

and im forced to use words that im not confortable with

(or for other reasons)

would it be a terrible idea to ask the other person to disengaging, since me disengaging is against the code?

(keeping it civil, obviously)

Shadow

@IsmaelMiguel for mods, I think. I didn't see it written in the CoC itself.

Ismael Miguel

11:37 AM

well, the code itself only had 1 block of text added

and it is the most abstract you can imagine it to be

Pandya

@Shadow Shock-puppet until bug is resolved! :) Haha

Shadow

What I saw is that if I keep using "he" while the other person made it clear they want to be addressed as "she", then and only then it's rude and against CoC. If you just go without saying anything it's OK. @Ismael

Magisch

disengaging is not against the CoC unless you do it in a clearly discriminatory way

202324

@IsmaelMiguel do you think asking to disengage would be civil..? But is OK to disengage, for regular users.

Obviously far cheaper.

Ismael Miguel

and easier

202324

11:39 AM

To disengage than to ask the counter party for disengaging.

Ismael Miguel

i prefer to stop talking than to be kicked out

Pandya

Btw, The "Game Over" picture is dangerous @Shadow where are you going as said in About me?

Shadow

The "can't disengage" is for mods, who are now forced to handle those things and not leave it to other mods. @Ismael

Ismael Miguel

that's stupid

mods have a life too

they are humans

they have jobs and other things

202324

They can choose to flee.

Shadow

11:40 AM

@Ismael and that's the reason so many of them are leaving.

202324

Actually they are, so everything's fine.

Ismael Miguel

that makes sense

i though all users werent allowed to disengage

StephanS

@Shadow this is going to sound really stupid on my part but.... What makes "people" not a neutral term? meta.stackexchange.com/a/335674/526631

Ismael Miguel

that's less scary

still incredibly scary

202324

@Shadow you'll end up having minorities moderating, but that's fine. Unless you are a far right shithead.

John Dvorak

11:41 AM

What if I'm right-leaning but not a shithead?

user351483

Moderators can recuse themselves from conversations if they feel conflicted and allow another moderator to take over. But moderators should support and enforce the code of conduct. However, the CoC covers every user, and continued use of the site implies an acceptance of the entire CoC. You can't obey only certain parts of it as and when they suit you.

John Dvorak

(Not that I'm right-leaning even)

202324

Then you are a far right not-a-shithead.

Shadow

@IsmaelMiguel why? What did you see that made you think this way?

Ismael Miguel

mostly comments

Shadow

11:42 AM

@IsmaelMiguel comments these days are... well... not something to take seriously, usually.

Ismael Miguel

that's why the 2nd question here

Shadow

@StephanS it's not?? Where did I say that? I just said "folks" is neutral, didn't say or meant to say that people is not.

202324

I hope the visit here has been helpful so.

Ismael Miguel

it was

it's still scary

StephanS

@Shadow no, no, you're good, I misunderstood

Ismael Miguel

11:45 AM

3rd question: is using "the o.p." considered to be in breach of the code?

202324

don't be scared. It's just an Internet site.

user194636

I think there's some misunderstanding! You're always welcome to silently disengage if that's what feels correct for you. We actually often find disengaging is the best answer when you're in a situation that makes you uncomfortable. Just be certain you don't do harm when you disengage by making a statement that you can not or will not comply with their request. — Catija ♦ Oct 10 at 16:21

Shadow

@202324 not sure about it. Yet. But I'm pretty sure even mods from minority groups left and are still leaving, so...

If the CoC change was the only issue, SE would be in good stand now. But it's not.

Ismael Miguel

@PaulWhite so, just silently walking away is fine?

user194636

@IsmaelMiguel Seems so. As long as it doesn't become an obvious pattern only employed to avoid using a particular pronoun.

StephanS

11:47 AM

It's weird how all our anger was blamed on the CoC. I mean there's a whole list of things

202324

I still say, it's just an Internet site. If you got too involved, sorry about you. Just take that, or get the materials and use them as content for a new better site.

Shadow

@IsmaelMiguel you mean OP, most won't understand when you write "o,p." and yes, if someone made it clear they want to be addressed in a certain way (he/she/they etc) and you keep only saying "OP" instead, that's against the new CoC.

So in such case, if you don't want/can't use the pronoun, just disengage.

202324

@PaulWhite even so. (or counter proof?)

Shadow

@StephanS :)

rene

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

Ismael Miguel

11:49 AM

i think the best is to just disengage :/

user194636

@202324 hm?

Shadow

@StephanS easiest, since it's written. Other stuff are mostly feelings.

202324

@rene not me this time - giving opportunity to newcomer

Ismael Miguel

@202324 that was the first question

202324

@PaulWhite even being an obvious pattern [...]

Ismael Miguel

11:50 AM

i can put it in a much better way, without using those types of words

202324

@IsmaelMiguel you're gonna know.

Ismael Miguel

okay

user58

...

Ismael Miguel

what may have led stackexchange to go forward with this code, knowing beforehand that it would cause a huge chaos?

202324

@IsmaelMiguel probably not the form, but the topic.

Ismael Miguel

11:51 AM

i mean

they knew the changes werent ... clear

Sébastien Renauld

@IsmaelMiguel Going forward ;-)

202324

@IsmaelMiguel minorities complaining

Shadow

@202324 and management change

Ismael Miguel

why not make it clear from the beginning?

Autar

@IsmaelMiguel Twitter

John Dvorak

11:52 AM

in the HNQ incident it was mostly triggered by a single tweet

Ismael Miguel

instead of tossing a block of text and then a massive post about it?

Shadow

I'm sure minorities were complaining since the very beginning of SO.

@Autar no, not this time.

rene

@202324 legit complaints from users that weren't vocal or (most likely) didn't feel being heard on the network

ArtOfCode

→ 2 messages moved to Trashcan

StephanS

I think a lot of users took issue with the process instead of the content, there's a right way to add something like this to the site but it was done the wrong way.

don't get me wrong I've read plenty of comments from users that hated the content

Ismael Miguel

11:56 AM

i honestly hate the content

user194636

Oct 2 at 11:31, by Paul White

@Aza I think us doing something in a way that was obviously going to cause a significant backlash surrounding both the action we took and the perceived lack of planning, management and communication violated people's expectations in ways that they didn't think were possible. That we proceeded anyway is significant. That we'll continue will be significant. The end ideal result is when people are able to take actions like the one you took, and connect them with our reaction, in a way where our reaction was the best conclusion. If that makes sense. — Tim Post ♦ yesterday

Ismael Miguel

doesnt mean i wont comply

@PaulWhite it didnt made sense for me :/

basically, they planned it badly?

Shadow

@StephanS yeah, feels like burning the change on the people's skin. So yes, it hurts no matter what's actually written...

user194636

Oct 2 at 11:39, by ArtOfCode

Simplified: "I think us doing something, in a way that was going to cause backlash, has violated people's expectations. We did it anyway, and that's significant. We're sticking by our actions, and that's also significant. When people take significant actions [like the one Aza took] we want them to be able to see that we've responded in the best way possible."

user194636

@IsmaelMiguel It is pretty universally accepted that SE could have planned and executed many things better in recent times.

SmokeDetector

12:00 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected (78): Is fascism left or right wing? by Karl Bonner on politics.SE

Ismael Miguel

i agree too

anyway, thank you for the answers

have a nice day!

user194636

no worries

user310756

@Shadow oi

user310756

are we still friends:D lol

user310756

I sent you an email check it marn. (that's my Jamaican accent)

StephanS

12:02 PM

@Shadow I mean is it really considered "being nice" if you're forced to do it

rene

@SmokeDetector that whole thread is full of that word so I guess fp is okay here and the answer seems on-topic and not overly biased to either end of the spectrum.

StephanS

@rene thats how you talk to it? you don't use commands?

Shadow

@YvetteColomb of course! It feels bad to disagree with a friend and someone you care about, but at least for me disagreement and friendship don't conflict. :)

rene

@StephanS yes, that annotates that report in Meta Smoke

user310756

@PaulWhite yep. That was more or less obvious to me, and why I've been a little impatient, which I shouldn't be,. I guess I came to terms with the changes in the site some months back, It was a shock,but I made the decisions to stay

Shadow

12:05 PM

@YvetteColomb oh... saw it now. I kind of knew it...

Magisch

@StephanS ref: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/post/203358 "comments"

user310756

@Shadow it's notmal to disagree

user310756

@Shadow hey shuddup you! :p slap slap

user310756

I can do this- he enjoys this type of violence

StephanS

@Magisch Wow, that's fancy

Shadow

12:09 PM

@YvetteColomb totally! With enough slaps I might reconsider my decision..... :D

StephanS

Nobody move, maybe they won't see us.....

Mgetz

Monty Python - The Fish Slapping Dance

►

user310756

@Shadow slap Now I gotta work marn! hehe I've missed this. Where's the den when you need it

Shadow

@YvetteColomb right there! pointing left

user310756

I got that. I better still be RO there, or you will cop it. Remember when I removed you as ro there? :D good times

Shadow

12:13 PM

lol

This reminds me, @Dro and @ber totally gone by now.... :(

user310756

@Shadow what?

user310756

@Shadow WHAT?

user310756

@Shadow WHY?

user310756

@Shadow :(

user310756

@Shadow dam

user310756

12:16 PM

@Shadow I love trolling you so much. It's the best

Shadow

@YvetteColomb yeah

@YvetteColomb indeed :(

@YvetteColomb life :/

@YvetteColomb ):

@YvetteColomb yup

user310756

@Shadow should we tell people we had a bot designed to ping people the most possible times in the den lol

Shadow

@YvetteColomb need more of this fun.... :P

user310756

@Shadow the ping abuse was mammoth

user310756

@Shadow agree

Shadow

12:18 PM

@YvetteColomb written by @Zoe and used by some others, no? lol

Wait.. @Zoe had the revenge bot...

So maybe @Clem wrote the bot/script that just pings using a timer?

user310756

@Shadow I think so

user310756

what was Zoe's name back then?

Shadow

lol using it here would give insta kick

@YvetteColomb Zoe, Olivia, or Princess

user351483

<proactively turns off ping sound>

Shadow

@Snow no worry we won't ping innocent victims.

oh oops. :D

user310756

12:20 PM

in Shadow's Den, 9 secs ago, by Feeds

Yvette Colomb has removed Shadow from the list of this room's owners.

Shadow

lol

user310756

@Shadow that's right princess!

Shadow

There was @Pri @Pra @Pro at some point in Den.

(had to drag @Pri out of [redacted] but still, fun... ;))

@YvetteColomb did you call me princess? ;-)

user310756

@Shadow yes darling Princess. I need to add you back as ro

Zoe the transgirl

@Shadow I had a revenge bot, but the pinging series was mainly because I had nothing better to do :]

@YvetteColomb There's many :]

Shadow

12:23 PM

@YvetteColomb whatever you decide, my Prince. :P

@Zoethetransgirl other than the three I wrote?

user351483

!!/blame

SmokeDetector

@Snow It's SmokeDetector's fault.

2

Shadow

lol

!!/blame again

SmokeDetector

@Shadow It's David A's fault.

user310756

@SmokeDetector hehehehe I love that

Zoe the transgirl

12:24 PM

@Shadow I went for Rouge the bat or something at one point

user310756

!!/blame

Shadow

ohhhhhhhh right

SmokeDetector

@YvetteColomb It's Sébastien Renauld's fault.

user310756

hahaha

user310756

does smokey still make coffee?

user351483

12:25 PM

!!/coffee @YvetteColomb

djsmiley2k

/me yawns

user351483

!!/coffee

Shadow

we killed Smokey :(

202324

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

@Snow brews a cup of jQuery for @Snow

user310756

12:25 PM

lmao

Shadow

oh

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected (78): Is fascism left or right wing? by Karl Bonner on politics.SE

@202324 brews a cup of Affogato for @202324

StephanS

@Shadow change the batteries

didn't we just answer that one

Shadow

yay! Love the kick, @Yve

user310756

@Shadow ikr! It's so much fun. When did we forget to have fun?

user310756

12:27 PM

remember our whatsapp chats? omg those were the days

StephanS

27 mins ago, by SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected (78): Is fascism left or right wing? by Karl Bonner on politics.SE

why did it repost

Shadow

@YvetteColomb it all started with a shadow

rofl :P

David A

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/335670/… wow. Empathy++;

Shadow

@StephanS maybe another instance?

!!/location

SmokeDetector

@Shadow teward/Chaos

Shadow

12:31 PM

hmm

rene

@StephanS if an edit is made on any of the posts it will rescan

StephanS

I don't see an edit...

wait found it politics.stackexchange.com/a/43105/28261

rene

yep

David A

I know it's a cliche, but Wikipedia says whatever I tell it to say.

rene

@SmokeDetector ignore

SmokeDetector

12:37 PM

@rene Post ignored; alerts about it will no longer be posted.

user310756

@Shadow hm I seem to remember some bladder control issues

Shadow

@YvetteColomb hmm... might be.... lol

user310756

@Shadow the website

202324

!!/location

SmokeDetector

@202324 teward/Chaos

202324

12:40 PM

D:

StephanS

If I had a dollar for every staffer in this room, I could go out for a nice lunch

David A

That BPD meta post is a nice reminder that there are a lot of people who just can't really deal with conflict and vitriol. It's more than just off-putting.

5

There is actually a decent amount of overlap between autism spectrum disorders and BPD.

17

Q: I have a mental health issue and it affects my participation on the site

I've been a regular on the site for some time now and am reluctant to come forward with this post, as I'm scared of the repercussions to my professional life. Suffice to say I'm well known, please do not guess who I am under here. It's something I am prepared to address with people in chat, but I...

discussion community behavior code-of-conduct

Shadow

@DavidA can't agree more.

djsmiley2k

12:56 PM

@DavidA huh

that.... explains what I g o through and why bi-polar doesn't fit what I suffer from

I mean, i'm not as extreme as that, but TIL.

M.A.R.

2

Q: Is the usage of 'folks' mandated by policy?

I have noticed that many senior members of the community (both volunteer and employee) use the word 'folks' where I, personally, would naturally use the word 'people' or use a more passive voice. Many folks seem confused right now --> Many people seem confused right now Or -->...

discussion policy code-of-conduct

Needs a Shog answer

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