Tavern on the Meta

11:00 AM

@OrangeDog The ultimate corporate world: 911 does not accept friend requests but most operators do, and 911 is friends with operators. Get ready to pay $$$$ to your operator to contact 911

Magisch

Thats the way OP finds these to report btw - go on any site, refresh a couple times

user1306322

honestly if you're not using an ad blocker as any kind of internet browsing user, you're doing yourself a disservice and putting yourself at an unnecessary risk of cross-site tracking and feeding the ad corporations your interests for free

Sébastien Renauld

Also, could they not have a cohort of users "previewing" the ads

user1306322

so my advice in any cases regarding any kinds of ads - install ad blockers

Sébastien Renauld

as in, toggle a flag somewhere, you get the "unverified" ads and a new ad queue + something for the carrot

StephanS

11:01 AM

@SébastienRenauld no because they don't trust us. i thought the new coc made that clear

Sébastien Renauld

if nobody from that cohort flagged an ad for X views, then it goes on the main cohort

Magisch

even spam is only removed in timely manner from SE because the users do it

user1306322

but I doubt that would survive as an answer for long, so I'm just telling you here (it's gonna be our little secret :x)

Magisch

most of the automation to get rid of spam is 100% user created and maintained

Sébastien Renauld

@StephanS they probably think seeing playboy models is good for us

Sklivvz

11:02 AM

Also, it looks like you Ad team has stopped caring about obnoxious animated ads, @Shog9

Shadow

@Magisch no cigar, tried that also, never got to the bad ads posted in MSE. But I do believe those who report of course.

@Sklivvz umm it's officially allowed now.

Magisch

they did say animated ads are now considered OK

Shadow

-130

A: NSFW video and annoying animated advertising on Music SE

We do intend to display animated ads on Stack Exchange. However, jarring and wiggling ads will be blocked and removed from our properties. Thank you for reporting.

Sébastien Renauld

Not getting ads at all on some sites on incognito

Hell yeah

StephanS

if you look that the ads being posted they're on mobile

Sébastien Renauld

11:06 AM

Animated pampers ad on the workplace

I know work typically is a shitshow, but still

Shadow

@SébastienRenauld hey I use pampers

I mean buy

for my toddler

Sébastien Renauld

The closest I have to a toddler is a cat

Shadow

@SébastienRenauld potty trained?

user1306322

@Shadow nice avatar btw

Sébastien Renauld

Evidently

and about to be renamed to Houdini soon

she breaks out of and into stuff

she figured out how to unlock and open the front door

user1306322

11:07 AM

we'll remember your name in the HALL OF FAME

Shadow

@SébastienRenauld wow smart cat

user1306322

@SébastienRenauld may I recommend a youtube channel? youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ/videos

Shadow

Reminds me of the white mice in The Guide

@user1306322 thanks? Might be premature though, I'm in Grace Period

Sébastien Renauld

@user1306322 I know it

Sklivvz

@Shadow I know and it sucks, but not obnoxious ones

Shadow

11:10 AM

@Sklivvz any animation is obnoxious.

Sklivvz

I would say a fade in is tolerable

Shadow

If you allow one, you allow them all.

Sklivvz

Of course, which is why they never did before

Shadow

@Sklivvz well that's not really animation.

It's CSS effect.

That I can tolerate too, agree.

Sébastien Renauld

@Shadow tbh this one is more appropriate: youtube.com/channel/UCpLQXR116cLVUa1LRY8KS4w

Shadow

11:13 AM

@SébastienRenauld hmm?

End Game instead of Game Over?

Sébastien Renauld

We had the locking/unlocking from the lockpicking lawyer, and now we have the cat

Feeds

stackoverflow.blog/2019/10/15/…

2

StephanS

@Shadow You mean CSS the hacking language, you shouldn't mess with that, I hear people break into websites using that and inspect.

user1306322

@Feeds This content is not available in your country.

StephanS

it's crazy

user1306322

11:15 AM

spotify link: Sorry, couldn't find that.

overcast.fm/+UwBrtOquA works for me

Magisch

@Sklivvz Do you honestly think they have the human capacity to police an ad network?

Sklivvz

@Magisch they claim they do

Shadow

@Sklivvz lol

Magisch

they claim lots of things most of which are lets say overly optimistic

Sklivvz

I don't believe they care at all, but that would be just the old me being negative

user1306322

11:18 AM

@Sklivvz nobody who claims that deserves trust lol

you can't expect good from a profit-oriented business, ever. Look around, look in the news -- environment issues, political conflicts, censorship, in some countries incarceration is even done for profit. It's a sad state of affairs but the world is slowly changing. Also don't actually go on any news sites today if you're not feeling well already :)

I'm wondering how much of how Wikipedia is governed can be adapted into a new, better version of SE network

4

Sklivvz

@user1306322 not all "for profit" groups depend on millions of volunteers

user1306322

it seems too complicated for me to understand at the moment but I'll keep reading

Firefox and its parent companies have a bit of a complicated relationship

Magisch

I've said this before but the only reason, the one USP keeping costs down, their saving grace is the core community

user1306322

some of them are for profit, some not, idk how it feels to the average contributor in that ecosystem

StephanS

@Feeds it was eh

user1306322

11:24 AM

@StephanS did you listen at 4x speed?

Magisch

If they manage to completly scare it off or, to say it in more succinct words make us "remove our problematic selves", then a lot of reasons why SE works cease to function

StephanS

@user1306322 2x

user1306322

wow

I like to leave myself some time to think over what is being said between the uhms

Magisch

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

→ 2 messages moved to Trashcan

202324

hey I had starred those

want my stars back

:P

user1306322

11:26 AM

stars are overrated

202324

GitHub stars, yes.

I mean, the whole of GitHub.

StephanS

@user1306322 there wasn't really anything insightful to take in, it was just commentary

user1306322

I like to gauge people's personal character by their speech patterns and word choices so it's of interest to me

StephanS

@SearchAndResQ don't talk in this room, keep your number

David A

@user1306322 Wikipedia does have some interesting approaches. For instance, they can issue topic bans and interaction bans (sort of like judicial restraining orders).

user1306322

11:30 AM

wow that's a lot of days ago

OrangeDog

Wikipedia's legal system is equivalent to a small nation-state

user1306322

@DavidA I would not be against someone compiling an easy to digest overview of Wikipedia's systems as a meta discussion for all to consider :p

as a comparative with SE's of course, to stay on topic and have valid context

you know, to weigh pros and cons

are there any experienced wikipedians among our users here who can shed some light on how Wikipedia works?

OrangeDog

I don't know how much has changed in the last 10 years...

user1306322

well, here… we know what changed lol

OrangeDog

This would be the entry-point
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution

Magisch

11:35 AM

wikipedia has recently started its own welcome wagon though

user1306322

dat prominent "Assume good faith" in the right sidebox…

4

OrangeDog

If an admin (of which there are various kinds) cannot resolve a dispute then there's a "supreme court" with a pretty formal process, tons of case law, etc.

Magisch

@OrangeDog yet they recently banned and desysopped someone completly bypassing the arbcom process and dispute resolution processes because that someone ran afoul of the spouse of one of the board members

StephanS

@Magisch I don't understand, these QnA sites do understand we all work for free.

OrangeDog

There have even been "constitutional crises" when the "monarch" was found to have bypassed the "judiciary" and "legislature"

Magisch

11:39 AM

some 40 admins resigned at wikipedia over it, and the community elected board members had to pitch a fit to cause the T&S team to agree their case files could be reviewed by arbcom

and all of arbcom had to threaten to resign in an open letter

OrangeDog

@Magisch sounds fun, as I mentioned I've not been involved for that least ~10 years

user1306322

does Wikipedia's contributions license allow for content reuse on other platforms? (with attribution to original editors/source)

OrangeDog

@user1306322 it's CC-BY-SA 3.0, so yes

user1306322

oh nice so it's the same as here

Magisch

also this: meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/… is a strategy paper from one of the working groups that details a proposed pivot to a more top down decision model and the implementation of a code of conduct across all projects

meaning WP is going down exactly the same path :)

David A

11:41 AM

In the end, everything was resolved somewhat amicably. The admin in question got unbanned but not reinstated as an admin (and a petition to the community to be reinstated got denied, so he has come to terms with the fact that his behavior was not up to standards).

OrangeDog

-297

Q: Stack Exchange and Stack Overflow have moved to CC BY-SA 4.0

Effective today, all Subscriber Content on Stack Overflow and the Stack Exchange network will be available under the terms of version 4.0 of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike (CC BY-SA) license. This change follows our last Terms Of Service (ToS) update where we inadvertently introduce...

Magisch

@DavidA nah. They relented now because their community threatend to tear itself apart. But none of the actual concerns were resolved

user1306322

@OrangeDog I suppose my contributions since that announcement would be under 4.0, but prior ones are still 3.0, as I did not explicitly receive a relicensing request and therefore could not agree to it, which I wouldn't anyway.

OrangeDog

@user1306322 that is exactly everyone's point that SE refuses to address

user1306322

they're refusing to address many points

Luuklag

11:43 AM

@OrangeDog Was there ever any further response on that thread from Tim et. al.?

user1306322

not yet, but keep an eye on thursday announcements :p

OrangeDog

@Luuklag Tim's response is there. That's all.

SPArchaeologist-様

@SébastienRenauld as I said in a Meta post, the Google Ads platform does indeed provide age and content category filtering. You just have to actually enable them.

OrangeDog

Quickly eclipsed by the next debacle of course
https://meta.stackexchange.com/q/333965/155659

user1306322

also, how funny is that -- promised not to ship on Fridays anymore, but picked the next closest day that isn't on weekend? That's straight out of a comedy show

David A

11:45 AM

All they need to do is track the license of each comment/post and ask people to bulk-relicense their stuff when logging in. Editing a post creates a derivative work which can be licensed under the new CC (upgrading it on the spot), but older revisions might be a problem.

Sklivvz

@DavidA that means keeping the old license forever

OrangeDog

Also meta.stackexchange.com/q/333678/155659

@Sklivvz yes, that's how licensing works

David A

For inactive users unfortunately. :-(

Luuklag

@DavidA Have the community user make trivial edits

OrangeDog

@Luuklag like replace all pronouns?

Luuklag

11:47 AM

@OrangeDog Ah yeah I see, legal is "on-board". So they think they are in their rights.

OrangeDog

@Luuklag no, they never said (that I can see) legal was "on-board"

user1306322

@OrangeDog nah people have already voiced their concern about the network misrepresenting them by "editing words into their mouths" (I get that was a joke but it's something people think has merit, and there is this counter-argument to that)

Sébastien Renauld

Actually...

OrangeDog

we assume because answering the question would be an admission of fault, causing them to immediately lose the resulting lawsuits

Sébastien Renauld

If I make a derivative work of somebody's CC-BY-SA 3.0, surely I have to pick the same license (due to the license choice)

i.e. ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.

David A

11:50 AM

@SébastienRenauld actually you don't. You can pick a later version that isn't meaningfully different, like 4.0.

user1306322

(I'm not that deep into Creative Commons legal lore so I can't comment on that)

Sébastien Renauld

@DavidA Are you sure? I can't find anything going either way on this one

David A

Only pedants care about this stuff, but the SE userbade i

OrangeDog

@SébastienRenauld "You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License; (iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g., Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 US)); (iv) a Creative Commons Compatible License."

David A

Only pedants care about this stuff, but the SE userbase is notoriously pedantic.

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