Tavern on the Meta

@Nat You need a starting userbase mostly consisting of able programmers, a very dedicated founder, some orator that can sway the masses by being profound

A meme pertaining to overly sweet confectionery

Star Wars jokes, Star Trek jokes, Star SHIP jokes

Also waffles. Lots and lots of waffles.

I guess we really do need to make it easier to have a micro-payment system based on usage. I mean, most users don't want to have to deal with paywalls or subscriptions, but seems like people would be willing to compensate StackExchange for its services if it were sufficiently simple and worry-free.

Probably not

@rene no editing. Tag bonanza. Users being able to make answers (on other people's questions) accepted at a certain rep level. Etc. etc.

6:43 PM

Definitely probably not

@Bart Well you just had me at the "no"

rene

@Bart that sounds ... off ...and awful

I would like to have a Shog lootbox as microtransactions though ...

2

I think I saw a website recently where people can sign up with different subscription rates, like $10/month, and then it auto-distributes that $10/month to the sites you visit according to how much interaction you've had with them. Does anyone recall what it was called?

A-frigging-men

Most folks do this for a living. The average employer makes expensing small costs harder than expensing big ones. You could sell $10,000/mo SO access, but not $0.01/page access.

rene

6:45 PM

exactly

I mean, microtransactions can be creepy because they can snowball and are coercive. But if you get to set $10/month for ALL services you use, then it's a lot less intimidating.

So a few devs would just pay out of pocket, but most wouldn't because they wouldn't get compensated. They'd rely on other forums and we'd be right back where we started.

Folks have tried this. A few times. It doesn't work.

@Bart Contains cheap blended whisky and beef sticks

Yeah.. might be sorta like taxes? I mean, everyone benefits from us all paying taxes, but most individuals wouldn't opt into it if they could dodge 'em.

@Shog9 still better than Overwatch

cnbc.com/2019/10/11/…

6:49 PM

@Nat Interesting idea... We could just label the site "free for non-commercial use", list prices for business use, and then "audit" large companies...

(of course, we'd probably just get insta-banned by every IT Dept and be back at the start again)

user206222

Okay, I maaaay just have encountered a violent fascist. Uhh. Normal escalation routes won't work, here.

I just wanna advertise odor-free socks

user206222

> Hell, if somebody would told me "Jews stole our freedom" or "suicidal people should kill themselves", I would just shrug. (cont.)

eeeeeeeek

user206222

Shog are you... free? For a sec?

6:50 PM

Sorta - on mobile

Sorta, with a bazooka only

Link me somewhere and I'll try to get to a PC

@Shog9 That'd be neat to see! Might have to do a more authenticated style, or else folks might do all sorts of tricks to avoid identification (e.g., Tor).

I'm thinking a bit more toward the future. I'm holding a pretty good hand when it comes to future political influence, but still trying to figure out how to play it.

@Aza If Journey was on, he'd be all like "these times bring the worst people in the worst of us" or something like that I forgot.

Worst of people in worst . . . I give up

Nah, I'm pretty sure @JourneymanGeek would be kinda revolted at that as well. *shudders*

6:52 PM

Worstly

@Shog9 only if Oracle buys SE

In particular, I see people losing their jobs to automation, increasing shift toward information-service consumption, a loss of meaningfulness behind intellectual property rights, and other issues like that coming down the pipeline. I'd like to figure out a good solution for the future.

@user58 well I was too, and those issues are pretty non-existent here.

Except suicides.

@M.A.R. times like this bring out the worst of people and the best of people ;p

With respect to automation forcing folks into joblessness, simple plans like Basic Income seem like a decent start. Personally I'd describe it as a government buy-in to citizens as their side of the social contract, but "Universal Basic Income" works too, I guess.

6:54 PM

@JourneymanGeek Nope, it should include a quad-negative

@Aza I could probably send you in a CM message if it helps

@M.A.R. this one does not not not not not not not not not not not go up to 11

user206222

@JourneymanGeek I got in contact with Shog, dw. Thank you, though.

@Nat I haven't contemplated about that automation-joblessness thing, but a while ago I read something along the lines of arguing in such way is missing the forest for the trees

Or the tree roots. Or fungi.

With respect to tracking, I think we'll essentially have to come up with a complex proof-of-identity system that minimally invades privacy while still tracking services consumed/rendered. Otherwise the meritocracy aspect of the economy'll seem doomed.

uhm, however thats phrased in non nightshiftese

@user58 I particularly hate nazis

Well and/or facists

6:56 PM

Well I hate lot of things. After a while, you have to look at the positive sides of humanity

@M.A.R. Nothing positive about facists.

;p

@M.A.R. name one?

@rene dogs!

pffff

@rene blurry flowers mistaken as fried eggs!

6:58 PM

@JourneymanGeek Anti-facist, huh? What've you got against faces?!

Yours?

;p

@Nat they turn the wheels of the evil cosmetics industry

Poe's Law's got me on Meta. I can't even tell who's actually offended and who's pretending. I'm not even sure there's actually a meaningful line between the two. So I'm starting to think it's all one big joke now.

→ 7 messages moved to Chimney

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

It's pretty subtle, but dang, the amount of pseudo-science and/or superstition in some of those folks makes flat earthers blush.

Or think.

7:00 PM

@JNat Cross-site spammer: stackexchange.com/users/16455615/fdoc

Or blushthink.

@M.A.R. is that even a word?

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog what if we're looking at this the wrong way

Cross-spammer sites

@JourneymanGeek ur a word

@M.A.R. word

→ 3 messages moved to Trashcan

7:03 PM

Outside of here, I'm never dragged into these things, mostly because I don't have other purposes for the internet.

A dinosaur by my age's standards

Yeah, not-getting-dragged-into-a-controversy's probably a good way to put it.

Anyway back to the . . . Actually I left so many topics open I have no idea what I should be back to

If you can't talk about a topic without being demeaning, try to avoid it

Cacti is a lame plural. There I said it.

I do kinda miss Chemistry.

7:06 PM

FINALLY

Someone who gets it!

The physical side. Organic Chemistry II was the only class I'd ever failed... it was evil. xD

Every time I mention it I notice kind of a twitch "Oh that guy again huh?" with a Clint Eastwood face and the foreshadowing of a forgotten nemesis

You can't have forgotten me that easily.

@Nat nooooooooooooooo.com

@user58 You're not forgotten, but not much of a nemesis either

:(

7:09 PM

Mostly the guy who shows up after the final fight, promising the sequel

The memorization-heavy stuff got me. I was the type who'd crack open the textbook 10 minutes before an exam.. which was more than enough for math-heavy topics, 'cause I likes me the maths. And stuff like Orgo I was all conceptual! I loved that. But then Orgo II was like, "MEMORIZE THIS LONG SET OF REACTION MECHANISMS THAT YOU'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN". And my brain was like.. "Um, yeah. I'm gonna think about squirrels now.".

I mean, squirrels are so freakin' adorable.

And they have such bushy tails...

@user58 don't be like that. Those villains never die.

I want a flying squirrel as a pet.

@M.A.R. Not dying is a plus.

I'd name it Chipperz the Tortoise. Because why not?

7:11 PM

If I adopted a squirrel, I'd teach it kung fu

YES!

@user58 Yeah you always get away, while yelling "YOU'LL NEVAR CATCH MEEE"

Nemesises . . . Nemesees . . . Nemo are a bit overrated

They're emotional, sometimes annoying, sometimes racially insensitive

Phineas and Ferb - My Nemesis Full Song with Lyrics

►

user206222

@M.A.R. The nemiscus is a way of determining how much energy you have to Battle The Villain.

And they always allow the hero propaganda to spread. The hero gets pissed off and kills the hell out of them, and then pretends they brought their own doom and jumped into a volcano or something, shouting "a captain goes down with his ship". Yeah right, how dumb do you think we are?

7:15 PM

History is written by the victors, eh?

In the short term. Then it's written by historians, and then by fan-fiction novelists, in that order.

Meanwhile, the sequel villain persists to debunk the stupid claims, is often really crafty and apathetic at the same time, and is rarely a pain in the ass unless they yell corny 90's cliches

@M.A.R. nemmmeses to pieces?

@JourneymanGeek hey, multiplying M's to make plurals only works in dog English

user206222

Some of those pieces, especially recent ones, may even be CIA propaganda.

user206222

7:18 PM

You never know where inspiration comes from. ;)

user206222

The Cultural Cold War changed the landscape of American literature in some pretty subtle ways.

Well, funny thing is, I'm not persuaded CIA has come to their mind

I hate meeces to pieces.

►

They're probably spending millions on some psychokinetic weapon as we speak

Called KKnife2000

Pretty sure we're in the regime of "holy @#%$, it's really easy to make dangerous things! Let's try to keep some random idiot from blowing up everyone else.".

user206222

7:20 PM

On an even more basic level... "Show, don't tell"? CIA. "Write what you know"? CIA.

Hah there're even animes about it on Netflix now! This is, the premise that humanity had to regress to avoid self-destruction due to the increasing ability of individuals to harm many.

Some of the spying stuff is awfully creepy, but gotta admit that there's due motivation too.

Or maybe I'm just watching too much Netflix. Probably that. :-P

@Aza Fry.gif

user206222

@Shog9 CIA propaganda, just like you! :)

@Aza I didn't see it render, but it's Fry.gif. Fry, I assume, from Futuroma. Fry, who went 1000 years into the future to bring us entertainment bliss on our retro-futuristic television screens. Do not disparage the Fry!

I'd buy "the very concept of The Great American Novel", but tired teaching memes are self-sustaining

7:32 PM

Shog propagating CIA propaganda? Aha, so that explains the knuckles.

Nothing explains those. You should probably see a doctor

user206222

Cereal. Remember that favorably. Purchase cereal. (YouTube)

user206222

(Shhhshsh. I know how to Markdown.)

(Honestly though, you lost me there.)

What does a monkey use as a wrench?

7:35 PM

(What would not being lost look like?)

@Shog9 What does a crow use for a bar?

user206222

existential_fear.jpg (gotta be jpg because the conversation is lossy)

Monkey Car Repair 101 with a wrench.

►

...wat.

Trick question - monkeys don't use wrenches! *sits down, straight-faced*

@Aza I doubt this. SE does use 3 different dialects of markdown. Even they don't know 😁

7:37 PM

I stand corrected.

@user58 but you just sat

Good posture is important. The CIA taught me that.

I remained seated doubly corrected.

@JourneymanGeek Wait, really?

Yup

7:38 PM

If you don't count the subvariants

Chat, comment and post

Ohhhh, hah, right. xD Silly me!

MathJax renders differently in comments, too. That one throws me when I try to do overlapping drawings.

If things got less nutty I hope for commonmark

And subsets of it

user206222

They probably did, actually. The CIA was pretty heavily involved in preventive care in the mid-1970s as part of an effort to make American healthcare better able to respond quickly. It was international propaganda towards the idealization of the small American suburb. "You always have your doctor on hand," if you've heard the expression. Though it's fallen out of common parlance recently.

user206222

They identified three key ways they could improve trivial health issues: access to better ergonomics; access to exercise equipment or people-first suburb design; and they also started Whole Foods.

7:42 PM

This is where Poe's Law gets me. Like, are we legit talking about actual conspiracy theory beliefs, or joking around?

user206222

no oh my god don't worry I'm writing on the line, that last one is made up

You always have a doctor two weeks away with pre-approval and a 4 hour window pay in advance credit check required. Just rolls off the tongue so much better.

Because I'm totally serious about the squirrels thing. They're awesome. That's just a scientific fact.

@Nat yes

I have no doubt that people actually do believe that the CIA runs Whole Foods. After all, they're owned by Amazon.

7:44 PM

whole foods sounds like satire to me

like, how about we do what a farmers market does, slap some fancy labeling on it, and charge 5x the price?

user206222

"Partial Foods Market": half the gourd at three times the price!

Seriously. I mean, who eats food whole? You're supposed to chew that stuff.

Everyone knows WholeFoods was a private sector plot to drive up the cost of staple goods

user206222

HAH.

John Dvorak

@Nat even cherries?

7:45 PM

Staples are expensive enough as is. :(

@JohnDvorak ESPECIALLY the cherries!

I mean, why charge so much for tiny bits of metal? *grumble*

Incidentally, I spend a lot of money on dental work.

Precision fasteners are the unsung wonder of the modern world

Catija

The colorful ones are fun, though.

7:48 PM

@Magisch Could I interest you in a $25 bottle of artisan water?

In less than a century cheap, high-quality fasteners nearly replaced joinery in every day construction

Imagine that. A multi-millenium old trade supplanted practically over night.

user206222

Yeah, that's actually... super true. The biscuit join is probably never going away, but that's the only one I can really think of.

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog When what you're wanting to add as a watch/ blacklist isn't obvious within an MS post, please add a comment to the PR explaining where it's from. Without something indicating where it comes from, the PR is likely to be rejected. I did figure out where this one came from, but it took significantly more time than we should need to spend on evaluating a PR for a watch or blacklist command.

...also, probably best to do those in CHQ, not here.

That would help too.

7:55 PM

I'm impressed by how much dedication some of the community's volunteers have.

Well, since you're here, have a beer @Makyen

@Shog9 Thanks. That sounds like an excellent idea. Please have one yourself. :-)

🥃

Mmm, a... blank square. Looks lovely. :}

It's invisible beer. You have to warm it up to make it appear.

7:58 PM

🥃 :-) ahhh, tastes good

..also, I guess emoji standardization still isn't quite there yet, huh?

I don't think Ubuntu really supports emojis.

Small mercies

Probably depends on the version

Heh

8:11 PM

sigh

how many hours have I been at this :(

too many

settle down, pick up a cat, enjoy the evening ;)

correct answer, i need more invisible points.

The nearest kitty is snoozing

don't know where the others are.

having cats is always a joy

2

There's a robotic cleaning machine wandering around

I refuse to cuddle the roomba

Andras Deak

8:17 PM

@user58 actually, yesterday I realized that in gnome I can start typing a unicode character's name in the runner-thingamajig. I'm on debian but close enough.

(not the proper alt+f2 runner, but the <stupid windows character> full-screen thingamajig)

@djsmiley2k it's quite a lot bigger

Woooooo got one pirate lord, 2 more to go

Than a roomba?

or the cat?

because my cat is.... large

Yes

Its like one of those riding mopping machines

But a robot

That is awesome, but my cat could take it in a fight :D

8:33 PM

I'm not actually sure if its ok to take photos at work ;p

:)

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

(Its an airport so everyone does it. But...)

@JourneymanGeek Plane spotters?

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog not so much. Just general photography

BelovedFool

9:15 PM

@Aza I see you everywhere on MSE lately and I know being so active in such a trolling/transphobic time probably isn't easy for you, so I wanted to send you all my love. I really appreciate what you are doing for the trans community and, if at any point, you feel like you can't do it anymore, it's fine by me. You have already done more than your share. Be well and take care of you, dear stranger

2

user206222

@BelovedFool Aw, hell,

user206222

:)

user206222

9:40 PM

Abusive flags, please.

The number of upvotes it's getting while awaiting deletion is, uh, concerning.

Abusive?

Perhaps we should not throw that word around too lightly.

3

user206222

The (colloquial) name of the flag is "abusive."

Oh, OK.

...also I'm just going to move that out, no need to keep it OBed here

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

9:45 PM

What?

Why?

This is truly beyond me.

user206222

The text is degrading/demeaning, it's not good to keep lingering around.

There's no need to keep abusive comments inlined in the main chatroom.

Abusive, again?

2

shakes heads

Do you really think this helps the cause?

....

user206222

. _ .

9:47 PM

◕_◕

user206222

Anyway, it's still up, more flags would be appreciated.

ArtOfCode

throws flag Catch!

user384163

I added mine

...and the followup comment

OUCH

user206222

9:49 PM

Woo!

user206222

user206222

....larger than I thought it would be. C'mon, Google Images, I said icon size.

Your first mistake was trusting Google....

user384163

and every mistake in between

user384163

oh come on

user206222

9:51 PM

We now need... two abusive flags.

user206222

Comment one, comment two, comment three.

user384163

They just keep adding more!

user206222

Gonna... poke the OP there and ask 'em to flag and move on, too.

user206222

Looks like they're gone. Thanks, all.

user206222

10:16 PM

Incidentally, someone made a userscript that hides vote counts until you vote yourself, and good lord it's taken off so much of the strain of looking through this crap. I highly recommend it.

user206222

Unintended side effect of playing around with this userscript: I don't have to deal with knowing 12 people liked that attack helicopter post enough to upvote, at least unless I actually want to.

user206222

Soooo much easier.

user206222

Abusive flags, please.

FFS

user206222

It's still up, still looking for flags.

user384163

10:25 PM

I added mine

user384163

gone

user206222

Thanks all :)

11:06 PM

Many useful userscripts

11:20 PM

@Magisch Is that a mantra of sorts?

Or are you browsing Greasy Fork?

David A

11:43 PM

Abusive doesn't mean "problematic" I hope.

Because I personally upvote stuff that makes a good point even if I don't like it.

user384163

calling our identities made-up is abusive

user384163

and no quality of your point will make me not flag that as abusive

<-- what a real made-up identity looks like

accept no immitations

What @AGirlHasNoName said. Being blatantly phobic like that is abusive, no matter how you couch it.

It might not be abusive intent

but the effect is severely abusive

11:53 PM

I like "rude". "Rude" is a good descriptor

covers a lot of ground. adapts well to changing social sensibilities

user206222

I prefer 'fartface' but, y'know, to each their own.

that's all that literature-studying, filling your head with fancy language

Ultimately, while intent does matter a lot, our actions are judged primarily by their effect

David A

Makes me glad I took as few humanities courses as I could.

@Magisch that is a very recent phenomenon.

user384163

meh Rude works. Abusive is better when it is targetted. Which some of it is. That before was being slung in the aether for everyone to gather.

11:56 PM

Not... really?

Well, it's often not really avoidable.

I can't look into your head and see your intent

humanities are ok. It's humans that are just terrible

3

I'm always making a guess on that one. But the effects of an action are reasonably easy to determine

David A

People can be judged by a "reasonable person" standard.

Ever studied, say, ancient Jewish laws, such as the text of the Mishna? Intent is relevant between you and God. Effect is relevant between you and another person.

user384163

11:57 PM

@Shog9 What's your opinion on cats?

This is additionally true on the internet. I know none of you all personally. I have no signal besides what you all write, and that is just text, so lacking all the nuance and extra information intonation and facial expressions usually carry

user384163

Maybe I will just become a cat

What else besides outcome can I judge actions by?

and when you gaze long into the humanities, the humans also gaze into you

Pretty sure that was MLK or somebody

@AGirlHasNoName I like cats. They keep the vermin down. Mice, voles, all those pesky songbirds