Tavern on the Meta

user351483

6:02 AM

Sent

user351483

"I am requesting reinstatement as a moderator of The Workplace.

As much as I disagree with the manner in which Monica was removed, and multiple resignations/strikes have pressed home that the community at large was also not happy, I still value the community that the web site serves.

As much as in good conscious I could not serve a company that did this, I cannot in good conscious let this community unmoderated.

I love this community more than I love SE. There's my conflict. But the community wins - the customer must always come first, users must always come first.

user351483

(quoted for disclosure)

user351483

6:18 AM

@JourneymanGeek I just want to thank you. A lot. You are the voice of reason, and of considered moderation in thought and deed. You are the fresh spring of clear water that brings hope to a wasteland. You have helped my thoughts over the past few days more than you can think. Thank you.

2

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@Catija Don't chat transcripts provide a paper trail?

user351483

Not against a user. Not in a real sense.

user351483

And I do get the implications of doing this and the impression that I'm appearing to validate SE's actions. However, my pull toward serving the community comes first.

user194636

Some will see it that way but what can you do except state your reasons as hope everyone accepts that.

user194636

Others will say it makes you look a little indecisive.

user194636

6:30 AM

In fact there will be someone for every possible reaction.

Andras Deak

12 hours ago, by Andras Deak

whether any given mod decides to stand up is their very own private business, as private as it gets, and discussing it would be in bad taste

In any case anger is aimed at the company, not mods

user351483

@PaulWhite There's always going to be people to interpret the worst.

user194636

@AndrasDeak If that's directed at me, I was responding to Snow, mod to mod.

user351483

But I've stated my case. All I can do is wait now.

Andras Deak

@Snow Just listen to Taylor and shake it off

user351483

6:32 AM

@AndrasDeak How well do you know me? Where's the camera? lol

Andras Deak

@PaulWhite It was directed at your point. People who don't agree with a mod's decision about staying a mod can go suck on a lemon.

@Snow uuuh what camera? I've no idea what you're talking about ;)

user351483

@AndrasDeak Agreed. Enough people have spoken and acted to send a very strong message.

user194636

@AndrasDeak I see. Thanks for clarifying.

user351483

@AndrasDeak The entire Taylor Swift discography is on my work playlist. It's a guilty pleasure.

Andras Deak

Hehe

Luuklag

6:56 AM

I was just planning on writing a response to Sara's post. But turns out Tim can't handle negative feedback very well, or is there any other reason the post is locked? Did they really expect anything other then neutral to negative response on this nonstatement

Andras Deak

@Luuklag content dispute. See the revision history

maybe comments too

I've seen some in bad taste last night

or can they lock only the Q?

Luuklag

Yeah that edit history is far from pretty. I'd suggest we give a stern warning to some of those editors. Those edits were clearly in bad taste, maybe even in bad spirit.

I could agree with the removal of "Friends", the tag updates, and the suspend -> remove change, but all others are really deserving of a stern warning or a short term supsension.

To bad they always post this stuff in the evening

Best would even be to make a special post type, like announcement or something, that can't be edited by anyone besides mods

Rob

If locking a post doesn't get a good response, imagine how it'd be received if users including mods were suspended for the edits

In my experience, locking posts happens when there's a lot of moderation time dedicated to the post, most of which isn't really visible.

For example, meta.stackoverflow.com/a/389908/563532 has forty four flags and 80 deleted comments

People weren't happy when I locked that, either

Luuklag

7:13 AM

Good point @Rob

on a side note, Sara did a great job at burning her reputation on MSE over the last week.

user194636

@AndrasDeak no, unfortunately. locking a q locks the q comments and prevents new answers

user194636

@Luuklag yeah the rep graph looks like a particularly scary rollercoaster

user194636

I've never really thought about a negative rep cap before

Luuklag

She should be in the -300 to -400 range by now ;)

user194636

By rights one should lose a mortarboard badge for -200 in a day

Andras Deak

7:19 AM

@PaulWhite I see

user194636

it's daft, but there we are

Andras Deak

@Luuklag not constructive

john

Yesterday I ran out of star giving, how many stars can I put a day?

Rob

20

john

Awesome.

Bart

7:29 AM

15 of which can be freely distributed between any of my brilliant contributions over the history of this chat.

rene

7:51 AM

I always assumed you got more stars if you starred one of your messages?

Star one, get two for free.

Bart

Yes. 15 of which can be freely distributed ...

Already has mine

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

@rene done

rene

thx

Ian Kemp

8:10 AM

oh shit booois we made the / tech.slashdot.org/story/19/10/03/1557215/…

2

John Dvorak

No dips are visible on her network profile. Caching?

rene

@IanKemp let's not go down that road, please

→ 1 message moved to Trashcan

Ian Kemp

you're no fun

rene

That is confirmed

Ian Kemp

<3 rene, i'm just being a d'bag (my normal mode of operation)

just getting a bit tired of all this waiting for SE inc to actually say something constructive

Bart

8:19 AM

Internalize your d'bag like the rest of us pls.

rene

@IanKemp You're not alone. But I still hold the position that adding unconstructiveness from our side is not helping either. So discuss as much as you want, keep it civil.

Ian Kemp

@rene you're right, and i apologize

rene

I'm always right ...

Ian Kemp

RENE FOR WORLD PRESIDENT

user351483

I have gone over the hump of discontent, I have had my limit of it. I want now to reset and rebuild.

rene

8:24 AM

Did you check if SE is also in that mood already?

user194636

hah

Rob

@rene >.>

rene

Reset and rebuild is best done in sync I think.

At least, that makes it easier.

user351483

@rene I can at least start. I can at least help my own community. If no one does anything, nothing gets done.

rene

That is also true.

user194636

8:27 AM

So it's Friday in the US now. I guess that means SE won't be shipping any more news.

rene

Their Friday has yet to start, working wise that means.

Rob

I think the latest statement was the last we'll hear of it

At least... that's what we've been told publicly

rene

Assuming HQ is still on normal business hours

user351483

What's the alternative? Sit back and add to the toxicity that's covering the entire site? Or do we consider the audience for this community and work toward serving them?

user194636

@Rob Well I'm expecting a clarified CoC at some stage

Rob

8:29 AM

Oh, right

Yeah.. I don't expect that for quite some time, personally

user194636

@Snow Well a significant number of people have been waiting for the CoC before deciding what to do

Ian Kemp

@Snow and how do we do that? not being sarcastic, genuinely interested in what ideas you have

rene

@Snow serve the community is preferred and if we assume good faith I think that is what SE hopes for as well.

John Dvorak

@PaulWhite In other words, there will be a third wave of exodus once the CoC changes are finalized /cyn

ArtOfCode

@Catija I find that highly offensive. It's colonise all the things :P

user194636

8:31 AM

@JohnDvorak cyn?

Rob

I suspect the CoC will be very underwhelming (not in a bad way). Essentially, an addendum to 'be nice to each other'. Though, granted, how it's been enforced so far, abiding by the new CoC might not really protect anyone from accusations

John Dvorak

@PaulWhite cynical

user194636

@JohnDvorak ah thanks that's new to me. stored.

user351483

@IanKemp I want to start with moderating my own community.

user194636

@JohnDvorak Well people's decisions could go either way, and it kinda depends what they put out, but yeah

John Dvorak

8:34 AM

Even if the changes to CoC will have zero practical effect (best case, perhaps), the changes due to demodgate will linger for quite a while.

user194636

5 hours ago, by Catija

... I'm a bit of an optimist and... this is probably going to ... uh... seem odd coming from me but... This is going to pass. We may be weaker for it... we may be stronger. If we work together, we should be stronger. If we fracture, we'll be weaker.

John Dvorak

Those who remain will live under the constant fear of further changes out of the blue

3

user194636

Agreed. The handling of this affair has been the worst I have experienced anywhere.

user194636

I can only imagine how much worse it looks for people that have only seen the public SE statements.

Rob

Gonna be honest, most people won't care. Would you care about a scandal on say... wikipedia?

John Dvorak

8:39 AM

The Register version of events seems pretty... whitewashed.

Rob

It's also badly written and implies the exact opposite of what happened

The editor's comments directly contradict what was said by Sarah and Monica

John Dvorak

@Rob to be fair though, that's pretty common in modern newspaper business

Rob

That's true. Just yesterday I mentioned it was flat out wrong, though some readers didn't believe me... despite the article contradicting itself :\

user351483

And the vast majority of the Twitter/Register things are concentrating on the gender thing rather than the procedural issue.

John Dvorak

even though nobody here really cares about the gender thing.

user351483

8:46 AM

Yes, there's a deep sense of caring about that.

user194636

@Rob The risk is that people won't care. They won't care to participate, because SE didn't care to communicate with them, care to consult on important changes, or care to respond to community questions. I don't know that neither side caring about the other is a recipe for long term success.

Ian Kemp

guys, why are you expecting journalistic integrity and quality from el reg

user194636

And yes I know that's not what you meant, but "people won't care" is a counsel of despair.

user194636

@IanKemp Probably because that was the primary source of official information 🙂

user194636

Sad to say.

Ian Kemp

8:53 AM

kinda says it all about SE inc's comms, doesn't it

user194636

It puzzles me because the consultation around Be Nice -> CoC was pretty good

rene

yeah.

Rob

@PaulWhite I meant it in another way. I use Wikipedia a lot, but I have no attachment to it whatsoever. I don't know the moderators there, or the management. If someone was demodded there I would have no interest in the situation. I suspect it's the same for the majority that use stack exchange

A bunch of people know I was elected on stack overflow at my work. Not one has mentioned (and I'm assuming don't even know) the current or previous scandals

user194636

Right, but do those people contribute to SE or just use it?

Caleb

Does anybody here happen to have a lobster.rs invite they'd trust me with?

Rob

8:58 AM

After all, at the end of the day, this is just a website. Sure, a website I dedicate heaps of time to and value. But still, just a website

John Dvorak

My worry is that there's no real replacement for it

M.A.R.

But still, a website heaps of time to and value

Rob

@PaulWhite Some have not-insignificant reputation (some a few hundred, some a few thousand). Compared to regulars, that's not much, but to most people, that's quite a lot.

user194636

Yes

user194636

SO etc. are great resources (with a lot of noise and a good many tricky problems to solve) but there is no fundamental reason it will always be a great resource. SE ought not take the status quo for granted, assuming they can do whatever they like and life will always be sweet.

user194636

9:07 AM

SE is not too big to fail. Such a process might be sudden, or it might gradually happen over a longer period of time. The trick is not to get to a tipping point before noticing.

user194636

Anyway, I have no answers, just musing on alternatives out loud.

john

@Rob yes it is.

user351483

9:39 AM

Cheetos are amazing. Why have I never had these before?

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