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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

12:40 AM
or just cut the clutter.
puts hammer back on @M.A.R.'s foot
1:01 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Retracting request as the user has since edited the suggested edit to only change tags.
4 hours later…
4:48 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog hmm?
Looks like it's just alt text and tags
4 hours ago, by Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Retracting request as the user has since edited the suggested edit to only change tags.
I see your second message
dang I'm bad at context :P
how are things going on Meta today?
At the time they suggested the edit originally (and when I posted the message), the suggestion contained a lot more text that the editor later posted as an answer.
They later edited their suggested edit to only make fairly smaller changes
Anyone else think that question bans seem a bit draconian?
4:56 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog already voted on ...
41 messages moved to Chimney
I see Shog9 updated his favorites ;)
@Stormblessed Well, considering that users are warned in advance and usually hit shorter rate limits before being outright banned, I wouldn't exactly think that.
I do think that Q-banned users who come back much later and exceed their 6-month allotment should be given the chance to submit a "draft" to SE, and if it's approved as high-quality, they should be allowed to post it.
I imagine the case where someone's a student who posts low-quality questions and gets banned, then many years later has two genuine questions they want to ask.
I do think that it's really really weird that the system automatically does it, and supposedly even staff can't undo it
@Stormblessed actually its really sensible
Some people are just... nuts
and harass mods (and presumably staff) over stuff like deletions
and if I recall you get warnings before you get qbanned (and some mods send mod messages if they notice)
5:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek yes, those are shown in the mod-timeline on a post.
5:44 AM
I'm still wondering if being elected as designated survivor really means you are the least likable person to have around at a party.
6:16 AM
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog or ask one, get upvotes then get to ask another...
Or show they can contribute answers
@JourneymanGeek It's not that simple
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog actually it is in a lot of ways
A: What does "positively received" mean in the conditions for lifting a question ban?

Sonic the Anonymous HedgehogAs far as I can tell, there is no "special" consideration for that one question. The system will simply consider that one question along with one's other questions, and check to see if the user overall no longer meets the ban criteria. There was a case a while back where a user had been banned d...

Yay! Internet is back! @ Office
So you can now process the backlog of missed cat gifs on Facebook?
6:39 AM
@rene Duh :P Though I thought in this case it was more like 'he's not coming to our party anyways, so he might as well be designated survivor'
Morning! Looking forward to the hat parade?
I'll be in a train during the parade .... but I wasn't looking forward to it either way. You will be watching the livestream?
Probably just the pictures, afterwards ;)
Its not winterbash yet
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog uhm
Though putting on the livestream might not be such a bad idea... I'll be wearing the noise cancelling anyways.
Less mechanics more people
6:42 AM
I used to work at an office at the Lange Voorhout. We basically had front-row seats then.
@rene Nice! Or not? Probably not so fun getting to the office on those days, or getting home.
@JourneymanGeek This is better than winterbash :P
@Tinkeringbell exactly. So I preferred to stay at the customer which were mostly Ministries so it didn't help much .....
And that's why I won't work for the government XD
time for coffee :D
@Tinkeringbell you should have told me 20 years ago ...
@rene Eh. 20 years ago I was busy going through basisschool :P
7:09 AM
That should have been enough education to judge Government ...
True... I did volunteer at the local municipality archives though, when I was done with university. That was kinda fun :)
volunteering isn't working for, right? :P
I accept that ...
7:31 AM
@JourneymanGeek Sure. Where do you think I urinate when no one is around?
Whoops did I say that out loud
@Mithrandir Everyone should work retail or service desk once in their life, just to learn that one ;)
@Tinkeringbell Doing that right now
My take is a bit different.
@M.A.R. Oh?
Well, if I onebox it it'd be huge
Q: How to remove question ban after six months, auto-unblock didn't work after six months

Swaroop DevalMy Stack Overflow account got question banned around January this year. After six months, I could ask questions for a few days. If I recall correctly, I haven't asked any question since, but somehow my account got blocked again. Can someone please help me get unbanned?

Hmm, well, my question is almost done
7:46 AM
@M.A.R. Ah. That's still kinda similar to Mith's quote :P Accept it, then don't freak out when they do :P
@M.A.R. What about the answer? :)
@M.A.R. the toilet
I don't want to know where you urinate when everyone is around
If he hasn't been potty trained maybe we do want to know? So we can clean-up afterwards?
@Tinkeringbell Doing the final self-proofreading
@M.A.R. Sounds good ;)
@rene Do not make me get all territorial on you
8:32 AM
@Tinkeringbell early Winter Bash!?
oh, already discussed.... yeah, blame my internet...
@MetaAndrewT. Hahaha no, Prinsjesdag in The Netherlands. It has a tradition that was started by someone in the late 70s: Females wear hats, and the media treats it like some catwalk hat show ;)
Ooh, sounds interesting
and loud?
It's at least always fun to watch :) No, not loud at all.
I like the really crazy hats, even though etiquette experts say to not wear those, there's always someone wearing a very crazy creation just to make some sort of statement :P
1 hour later…
9:57 AM
Ahhh. the good old 'excessively long' autoflag. :P
It's very long, so it's useful...
2 hours later…
11:52 AM
> We need to clarify something.
The royal we is killing us. Help us.
Lets clarify something?
So, to clarify:
We think it sounds a bit more blunt, since it is an expression we commonly use when we do mean serious stuff.
Ah. Well, if his royal highness wants to be blunt, he's come to the right place!
"We need to" sounds less so because it's commonly used by authors to clarify their position
As opposed to a "listen punk"
I'd like to clarify something?
11:57 AM
@Tinkeringbell It was originally "I" but it felt a bit too off to depict myself as a representative of the community
And "I" does that more than "we"
I'll look, where's the sentence?
In Universal trash can? I mean that's how I originally wrote it but I corrected it in the draft.
So... why am I helping you polish trash? :P
Just imagine me, @rene and @Sha speaking creepily in unison.
All your meta post are belong to us.
@M.A.R. Its something you get used to after a while
12:02 PM
Sure, but if the idea is trashed, it's kinda hard to figure out why I'm spending energy on polishing it ;)
We do it a fair bit, in our position as a moderator
And yeah, you get used to it. Although in that case, 'we' is clearly the moderator team, and not trying to capture an entire online community ;)
in this case though and this is very much a SE thing - we probably means you've chosen to speak for the community
hands @M.A.R. an excessively heavy talking stick
I suppose I could pose as having DID for Shyamalan's next movie. This is my main character, Kevin Bread Crumbs.
My other personalities are a car's headlights, a bench in the park, a wolverine, and Russell Crowe.
Also, that's a perfect example of something that needs to be said, and fits badly into a strict Q&A format ;p
12:04 PM
@JourneymanGeek Ever heard of self-fulfilling prophecy
1 hour later…
1:04 PM
16 messages moved to Chimney
2:01 PM
@M.A.R. just had your meat post as my dinner's reading material... I'm full now
also, you should become a mod by naturalization...
@M.A.R. hm, from the MSE perspective, I wonder if 1.4 might also want to point out being civil to the folks who work here.
2.0 - AKA "Even mods sometimes get overwrought and need to go for a walk, or to bed"
That said, I think there's a 30 -20 something MSE post few hours minutes before that...
2.4 - might be handy to talk about what's needed to actually get a closure overturned as a counter point?
but core mechanics are "how do I post on MSE and not get smacked up like a pinyata in a baseball bat testing facility"
but ugh. That's one of those things which kinda is hard to see objectively
for us its a core mechanic
for a new user, it can be discouraging - but we can't really alter that without breaking a lot of things.
It's also... discouraging to be censored by downvotes on Quora and Reddit..... or isn't it?
quora has downvotes?
2:12 PM
reddit is a trash fire but not for that reason
@Magisch well, reddit is essentially a functional anarchy ;p
and pretty much oldschool BBs
I talk a lot about mechanics vs soft skills.
(and erf, I'm not sure about either on reddit ._.)
@JourneymanGeek Surprisingly, yes
What's the rightvote do?
who would forget the sidewaysvote
I vote to direction
that's... a hard question
2:15 PM
oh boy, are we getting into politics here?
right to vote, or left to vote?
I vote to close as directionally confused
I hope that doesn't create circular dependencies? :P
@JohnDvorak naw, the oppression of lefties
handedness not wingedness
2:24 PM
Well then, count me in
And on another topic... there are some... bug reports on MSE regarding old browser?
IE 11? ๐Ÿ˜ˆ
Chromium 47
@JourneymanGeek That's not a web browser
2:30 PM
@JohnDvorak uhm. Its something you use to download one, yes
but so is curl ;)
... or netcat
@JohnDvorak would need something to download curl with on windows...
@JourneymanGeek well, it's not a private info, so I guess I could link this question (and other OP's questions)
Ruby can be installed offline, y'know ;-)
That might be a bit messier
he's actually on opera?
2:32 PM
He's comparing with Opera which works bydesign
Otherwise, this question then
@JohnDvorak uhm, PS has fake curl....
So I guess so
Oh nice!
Hey, it even gives you a prompt if you call it without arguments.
My aggravated journey through getting my solar project finished seems to be complete.
knocks on wood
Get out the fireworks and party streamers and hats and snacks and beer?
Even got my web monitoring kinda sorta working.
2:42 PM
oh man
Had to have words with the CEO by the end of it; they laid off my project manager, and got awful insistent on me signing the completion paperwork before they were actually complete.
@Tinkeringbell get out the solar death rays?
@JourneymanGeek For extra energy production? I wonder... :P
and gardening
That makes me think of the microwave power plants from Simcity 2000.
The ones that launched satellites into space to collect solar power, and beam it back to it's collector.
2:45 PM
Oh man, Simcity 2000!
And occasionally missed.
Leaving a line of destruction across your city.
@Feeds looks professional enough (the onebox)
@fbueckert I never got that far into the game, I think...
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, I always made a complete flat map, except for a raised hill in the corner for hydro dams. Easy mode+
I abused the crap out of the simpler mechanics in the original Simcity, though.
2:51 PM
@MetaAndrewT. no bullet points.
I was amazed and enjoying the driving mode of Simcity 2K
@fbueckert I think we had an English version of the game at a time where I didn't speak English, so ... it was just building stuff and failing XD
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, it wasn't the greatest of UIs, either.
I love all the charts and graphs and information overload. But it's hard to pick out anything specific out of all of it.
3 letters: RCI
Not understanding the language, too, makes it even harder.
2:55 PM
Yep! Same thing for zoo and rollercoaster tycoon, though zoo tycoon went a lot better once we got a Dutch version and I could actually follow the tutorials.
Now my city builder games are the Anno series.
Simpler city mechanics, but much more complicated resource and logistic components.
3:22 PM
Only game I still play these days is Stardew Valley. Though I may get the new Animal Crossing when it is released
4:05 PM
train ....
it does wobble a bit too much
@rene where are you? Near Harderwijk everything seems fine
I'm now in Utrecht CS, coming from Zwolle over Amersfoort.
Ah. Intercity? Those wobble a lot especially just before Utrecht...
I'm going the other way ;)
If I had known, I'd have waved :P
Yeah, the IC to R'dam
I'll wave now ....
Hahaha I can't see it now, but you might cheer up some random kid watching trains ;)
4:16 PM
If I'm lucky, I'm going to get rain when walking home... Sky is looking pretty dark here...
Do you have to walk far / long?
Not far but I don't walk fast so 15-20 minutes
Oh, that is considerable. I'm only 8 minutes away, 6 if I "run"
I'm going to have similar distance once I moved. Should be able to get it down under 5 by then ;) my brother is taller and walks faster, and he can walk to the station in 10 minutes....
4:21 PM
Nice, when are you moving out? Did you buy a property? I knew you were looking for something.
No date on the moving yet, I'm in the process of buying a yet to be build apartment.
Oh, exiting.
Got lucky, they drew lots and I got a nice one, all downstairs, one floor, and a bit of garden. Really nice spot too, closer to the station, but not that much farther from the shopping centre, and on the edge of the forest :)
@rene Mostly a lot of paperwork so far... But last week I had my first appointment to pick out a kitchen and that was pretty neat... Though even more keuzestress ;)
@rene Yeah, I'm content :)
4:24 PM
Gotta run though, or I'll miss my station!
Run or you end-up in Zwolle ;)
The proposed Meta Penal Code is thorough but lacks specifics on punishment.
Defendant found guilty under section 3.5 item 2. Punishment: comment deleted.
4:49 PM
@410 Yeah, I'm guessing we now need a discussion on how to keep meta alive ;) things to do that'll earn you candy and dog treats ;)
1 hour later…
5:54 PM
There are people who downvoted. Downvoter no understand, obviously.
Am I taking it personally enough.
yes, I would post that if I were you. Just to make a point.
Or dot.
Or full stop.
There's even an ion for it. Periodate.
no oxidants on meta please
But on a really serious note... what do we need to keep meta alive? Just fewer new users that mess up their posts?
About the only reason I'd post on meta is if I'm mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore.
Which hasn't really been the case recently.
6:07 PM
@Tinkeringbell A healthy amount of drama is always necessary IMHO, I just think we got too much of it recently
@410 That's not really about keeping alive though, we have plenty of posts :P
We need Fridays.
In Iceland, particularly.
@M.A.R. Well, I'm more thinking about... we have now a whole list of things that kill meta... but I doubt any new user is going to read that before they mess up. So, what can we do to help them, besides linking them to that post and having them understand what they did wrong? Perhaps that'll help keep meta more alive?
@MetaAndrewT. Hmmm. I'm looking for something a bit more serious than Fridays, I guess :/
And certainly a lot more serious than Iceland.
6:10 PM
A soothing MIDI track playing on /ask page.
Is MIDI still a thing?
@410 the mad part or the not gonna take it part?
@Tinkeringbell The few that do matter.
Still mad. But I'm going to take all of it. ALL.
@410 I do think so. Maybe it got a JSON representation to make it easier
And, especially, for things like this, you have somewhere to link people to so you won't spend your mental stamina arguing it over and over again with them
If people on meta.SO did that more often, everyone would have been happier.
Buuut "guidance is so dispersed on meta", which is a previous post of mine.
6:13 PM
@M.A.R. Sure, sure... but... Just dropping people a link doesn't give them the feeling they're understood, or that anyone is willing to help... it's more like throwing them the rulebook and saying 'here's all the things we've decided you can't do, now figure out what you can do that isn't this' :/
I'm looking forward to comments "see WKM:5.2.3"
This stuff is scattered so much so except the few famous ones that sometimes don't help because they're too old and don't say what you want to say people don't remember to link them first.
@410 If there's going to be a lot of those, that post in this form might not stand a very good chance :/
@Tinkeringbell It . . . doesn't sound as bad as it seems in practice.
What Meta Stack Exchange is Not.
6:14 PM
You're picturing someone yelling for help and everyone else ignoring them right now
That's not what happens
@410 (actually I'm also thinking that post and its SO couterpart...)
@M.A.R. Perhaps ;) ... I'm just wondering if we can help more, in some way, with what to do instead of what to not do...
I haven't done anything special, except maybe update guidance a bit. Questions on SO go obsolete but it hasn't occurred to people that meta guidance goes obsolete too.
We'll see how this turns out, but I can understand if people see your post this way too, and thus downvote it.
6:16 PM
I frankly don't care about the downvotes, as long as I have something to link people to now.
Its score is +10 so it's a VERY definitive guide now.
QC stamp
souns like Will, or Won't. Choose either one.
I wish people did look at it that way, as something to link to.
Linking people to go somewhere else is always overdone somewhere and not done enough everywhere else.
And I'm pretty sure I'd end up in the not done enough team.
@MetaAndrewT. surprised there isn't .meta tld yet
The other side of the coin is the bajillionth hammerdupe of something from 2010 that does not represent community stance at the moment.
@M.A.R. Fingers crossed it's not only going to be people linking to that post ...
6:19 PM
The .center TLD is managed by a registry called Donuts.
OMG did I go viral among demons too.
Meta just needs better air conditioning.
Too hot and humid on some days.
So, why is everyone hanging out on meta? What makes this stuff fun/rewarding for y'all?
The money for nothin'
And now I'd like to hear from the people that don't get paid :P
6:31 PM
@Tinkeringbell I raised the bar too high for myself. I realized I'm not that hot in chemistry, and I'm sure as heck not a linguist. But THANKFULLY this stuff is so frigging complicated that there is always people to explain something to.
That, and trying to persuade people is fun.
I read meta for lunch/dinner's reading material
Hey that goes without saying
A procrastination tool for me.
I get a lot not done with it.
Whenever I've got a snack and no good movie to watch, I just go to meta.SO and read some rants. True story.
@410 This guy gets it
6:33 PM
@410 That one kinda goes without saying too though... :P
Just for the drama. The rest is a bonus.
I got some real righteous stuff done before I got sick on metas
But right now since things seem to be more rigid shaping culture seems harder.
@M.A.R. Hmm... interesting. So what do you think needs to loosen up so culture can be more easily shaped?
... loosen the tension?
Okay. So yoga or pilates classes? Which one do you prefer? :P
Any ideas on how to loosen tension?
6:40 PM
@Tinkeringbell It probably needs something fundamental, so it wouldn't just require meta regulars, but devs as well.
Cool, but what are we going to ask the devs to do then?
The system would have to start sending non-generic signals that reflect the good parts of the meta stance.
@410 I wouldn't combine those with yoga.
Making names look bigger or smaller on close votes is probably not the best place for development to pay attention to
Meta regs need to stop being so grumpy too, there's some work to be done there ;)
6:43 PM
Maybe, maybe not. It might make a pretty big difference to some, as they often feel hesitant to put their name on that 5 person list.
Honestly a simple break can fix a lot of things for them (or end up disengaging them entirely)
For the ones of us that aren't afraid of anything, it's probably not that useful though ;)
@M.A.R. So... each month, suspend the top 10 contributors for a week? XD
Start with rene
I'll put in a feature request ;)
What I'm saying is, a bigger focus on behavior is probably a better idea.
6:44 PM
I think Tinkeringbell is pretty cool. Eh eats sprinkle sandwiches and doesn't afraid of anything
The animosity against curators is real, of course. But we'd still be grumpy with names hidden if we go in that direction.
If the team that comes up with popups and descriptions listens to the floating head, for example, it might end up attracting users anyway.
@Shog9 F*** caries! :P
I asked Jeff to hide names 10 years ago. About time.
I guess if it's easy enough, sure. (And it is)
6:47 PM
@M.A.R. Hah. So the talking head asked to have names hidden ;) Where's your argument now? :P
Reopen voters don't get full billing on the question page. Why not make closing equal?
Folks who care can always check the revision history or timeline
But if we pick the 100 newest meta posts excluding those from, er, "side" topics, the arguments that keep being made over and over on meta can be summed up real nice.
If new user guidance adapted from those . . .
Well, shout me down, but I'll buy a feature that would lessen the psychological impact of being downvoted for new users, even though I know the rationalization is biased...
. . . are you implying you actually read What Kills Meta.
Who does that.
I wrote it in a kinda Orwellian fashion though. Maybe. Should have included a main character with a psychological dilemma.
I dunno, I did support an FR to display "!" instead of (heavily) negative score on OP's post, and perhaps some other FRs that I already forgot
6:57 PM
"!"? That's... a new one. But I think as long as people see their reputation decrease (and especially if you're lower rep, you're going to notice the difference between 101 and 99)... Even though you might not get a notification, every downvote is going to hurt a bit :/
Even some people that have plenty of points worry about losing some, sometimes.
So it's not just the score, I think.
@Tinkeringbell It was on meta.SO. Pretty sound FR.
@M.A.R. Ah. That explains why I never saw it :P
I had a habit of posting fun meta.SO posts here
I dunno where that went. I probably started wasting time more appropriately.
Q: Display a message to the OP the first time they receive a downvote

Daniel PrydenHere's the feature request: When a new user receives a downvote on a question they asked for the first time, the system should display a message, only visible to that user, similar to the existing messaging to a question asker when the question receives a close vote. The text should explain the ...

Seriously, Meta needs a soundtrack. The sound of rain, or of the sea, or ...
And the comments should be in cyan Comic Sans.
7:06 PM
Well, that would probably kill meta... in another way...
SE already played out the 90s theme joke :P
2014: a sidebar image invites you to mine coins by clicking
2019: a sidebar image mines coins with your CPU
8:02 PM
My apologies. I got a bit distracted ;) Where were we?
You? The Netherlands.
Ah yeah... looks like it. Dark, wet and autumn-like.
It hasn't rained here yet, but it was looking very gloomy yesterday. Today, not a cloud in sight.
Ah, sounds nice :)
It would be, if I wasn't coming down with a cold in any case... which reminds me, I should hop in the shower and get to sleep.
8:05 PM
Go go go!
Sleep well :)
Thanks, although unlikely... I tend to sleep worse when I'm sick :/
Doesn't everyone, until being sick makes them so tired all they can do is sleep? :)
Or at least lie prone wishing they were sleeping.
True... go take a hot shower, then prop yourself up with an extra pillow... get some essential oil (mint or lavender always helps me breathe :) ) and at least rest ;)
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