Tavern on the Meta

Sonic the Anonymous Hedgehog

1:54 AM

@JourneymanGeek Missed spam account: meta.stackexchange.com/users/588586Ирина-Челохсаева

Localization bug? The chat system doesn't seem to recognize Cyrillic characters as being part of links

forest

Must be.

I think I ran into that issue as well with some other characters.

Journeyman Geek

2:21 AM

@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog gone. The userid ended up useful enough

Meta Andrew T.

3:22 AM

The last message was posted 1 hour ago.

rene

6:14 AM

@MetaAndrewT. I need sleep ...

Journeyman Geek

@rene sleep is for the week

Catija

I get about 35 hours of sleep for the week. :P

I should probably go to bed.

Journeyman Geek

I do 7 hours a day unless I'm working nights. Then I slum it out on.... about 5-6

Catija

I have a Gus.

Magisch

I relish in my ability to get in 8-9 hours per day

Journeyman Geek

6:23 AM

@Catija night shift sleep patterns. Sometimes 1 hour on a train, 1-2 hours before lunch... 2-3 hours after lunch....

Catija

... I love my boys but... I miss sleep and freedom of movement.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I used to do 10.30-6.30 like clockwork once.

Magisch

I do do that almost consistently these days

Weekdays is almost always 21.30-23.30 - 7.30

Catija

I used to sleep from ~2 am to ~10 am.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch cat has small humans to herd

I have strange hours ;p

Magisch

6:24 AM

yeah thats why I said I relish in it

I used to stay up till 1am playing video games most days, and you don't even notice how much better quality of life is when you eshew that and get decent sleep in instead

god I sound like an old curmudgeon

Journeyman Geek

yes you do

or a 30something single ;p

Catija

When I worked retail, I could have it both ways. Stay up late and sleep in until 10 or 11.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija but... working retail.

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek but I'm only 24

Journeyman Geek

You need to deal with... people

@Magisch precisely.

Catija

6:27 AM

@JourneymanGeek and I don't now? Clearly you haven't listened to my podcast.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija actually... I'm backlogged on those T T

Magisch

friends of mine always moan about how they're tired and need so much caffeine

while staying up till 2am when they have to be at work by 8

Journeyman Geek

but dealing with people on the internet is different

Catija

It's 1:30 and my alarm goes off at 6:45.

🤣

Magisch

:(

Catija

6:30 AM

It's ok. I usually have a day where I crash at 8:30. (That's probably a sign I should sleep more)

Magisch

do you have fixed work time at SE?

or is it fully flextime?

Catija

I mostly just have to be available for meetings.

Magisch

sounds like an "always kinda on" type of deal

Catija

I've always got SE in my pocket.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch Its probably not as bad if you're going to be 'here' anyway ;p

just ... in more places

Magisch

6:35 AM

you know I used to think that

but working at something you like tends to make your dislike it in the long run

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch and there's a certain degree of well...

somewhat enforced sabbatical

Catija

Five years and then you get to (have to?) take a month off.

Journeyman Geek

yup

Magisch

I get 30 days PTO a year and we have to take at least 2 full weeks every year

beyond that you can accumulate but the bosses don't like it when someone has more then 90

Journeyman Geek

I kinda took a month and half straight off my job last year ;p

Can't do that any more

Nog Shine

6:38 AM

@Catija How are they doing now?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch and eh, a few CMs have talked about the potential for burnout.

There's a reason a lot of CMs have 'office spaces'

Catija

Sleeping. Bennett turns three on Sunday.

Magisch

I figure CM is like being a cat herder and serial listening ear

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I feel that's the ideal.

Nog Shine

@Catija wow! Three already. Time flies quick.

Journeyman Geek

6:40 AM

And dealing with community is hard and most companies blow it pretty hard.

Catija

@NogShine indeed!

rene

You'll regret having kids when they start to talk, or worse, have an opinion of their own ...

That will be my grumpy contribution for today ...

Journeyman Geek

@rene also true of users.... ;p

rene

Don't get me started ...

Catija

Probably a bunch of stuff I forgot in there, too.

rene

6:47 AM

politely that disqualifies me as CM ...

Catija

Maybe tactfully is a better word.

Journeyman Geek

@rene I doubt its all the time ;p

rene

@Catija That doesn't help me either ;)

Catija

@rene You're usually at least trying.

rene

A CM is basically the Single Point of Contact between company and "customer"

@Catija thanks for being kind to me :)

Catija

6:51 AM

Eh... ish? We have a long history of direct communication, too. Though, mostly related to bugs.

@rene I like flowers.

rene

lol

Magisch

And sometimes CMs deal with serial voting

rene

Yeah, they shouldn't do serial voting, that sets a bad example ....

Journeyman Geek

@rene It should be. Hasn't always been the case

Nog Shine

Destroying spam user accounts

Journeyman Geek

6:57 AM

I do that for free ;p

Catija

Dunno. I'm totally fine with Meg posting blog posts and Brian announcing the features he's worked on.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija oh was thinking a bit further back

when everything was probably much more terrible

Catija

What, when Jeff ruled meta?

Journeyman Geek

naw

Jeff's big core competancy was blogging IMO

I'm thinking the period where SO was flailing with the next great product.

Teams (no, the other one), docs, careers...

Catija

Ah. The dark period.

Journeyman Geek

7:02 AM

I think the period I idealise the most is early SE 2.0 - when SE actually kinda did a lot of things I thought were pretty clever.

Catija

Yeah. We're not clever anymore. 😅

Journeyman Geek

@Catija eh, the framework is still out there. But its for folks a little higher up the totem pole to really work out if they are willing to invest in things.

Catija

I'm definitely not the one making any decisions.

Journeyman Geek

nope

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek I thought Documentation had potential, although it may have worked better if it was built into or replacing the tag wiki system.

Catija

7:07 AM

I should decide to go to sleep, though.

Magisch

The docs editing UI and rewards system was flawed though

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir it was a problem looking for a solution in a lot of ways

and SO (the company) was super focused on stuff for... SO (the site)

And well - to me, that's kinda a small symptom with what was wrong with things

Meta Andrew T.

I was dreaming that SO Docs is the final product, while SO (the Q&A site) is the incubator

though... I usually don't know what I'm talking about...

Mithrandir

If the tag wiki system was overhauled and made into a place where people can contribute useful tutorials or examples... that might be better than what we've got now. Of course, that would basically be adding a "tutorials" feature to the site, and it would have to be prominently discoverable to be useful.

Journeyman Geek

@MetaAndrewT. I actually think SO has a better chance of making it work now

@Mithrandir I guess there's a few things.

Anything new can't be at the expense of stuff we have now. And that's kind of an antipattern SO has had a while.

"This thing is awesome and everyone's going to benefit". While other stuff kinda gets ignored

has had? eh, I guess that's accurate on the short term still.

Meta Andrew T.

7:14 AM

30k-rep personal blog? :)

Journeyman Geek

I mean, google does it, sure, but you don't see them ignoring ~~ads~~ search for side projects

they just kill side projects like a millenial

Meta Andrew T.

ahh... Google Wave...

Journeyman Geek

reader :/

But those are barely a speedbump for google. Its a volcano on the lawn for a smaller company

Mithrandir

The tag wiki system needs an overhaul. Aside from the excerpt, which could reasonably be renamed "tag description", the larger tag wiki system is perhaps the least discoverable and least used tool on the site. It's not really serving any purpose at the moment, for the vast majority of cases. There are a couple spots on SO where people have fleshed it out a ton, but the people who would most benefit from what's written there will never discover it.

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir that sounds suspeciously like a feature request ;p

Nog Shine

7:22 AM

8

Q: Allow access to tag wikis from the Android app

On the website I often click on a tag in a question to read up on more questions about that tag and sometimes the tag wiki. Currently, clicking a tag in the Android app searches for that tag, but does not provide access to the wiki. Please provide somewhere to access the wiki summary / more inf...

Mithrandir

...well, yes. I'm trying to organize what I'm thinking before even considering writing a post. Not to mention I won't be able to boot up my laptop until late in the afternoon...

So if we take the tag wiki excerpt, and rename it to "tag wiki description", that would both eliminate the confusion about what it is and save the useful part of the current system.

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@NogShine can be safely tagged as status-will-never-be-done.

Mithrandir

If SO decides to create a "tutorials" feature - akin to Docs - and spends time making it discoverable, searchable, and relevant - that could replace the tag wiki system.

Some random ideas for tutorials: They have to be linked somewhere other than the tag page, but there as well - even a top level link like "questions" and "users". They have to show up as "linked" in the sidebar. They have to be editable. They have to earn rep and badges. They should be sorted by tag, and able to be tagged with multiple tags.

Nog Shine

@ShadowTheDragonWizard Because it is on Android app?

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@Mithrandir They tried to mess with tutorials. They got serious burn. Doubt they'll ever try again.

@NogShine yup

apps are more dead than a corpse.

Nog Shine

7:30 AM

What about mobile users using Desktop site?

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

What about them?

Nog Shine

They face the same problem.

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

With responsive design in place, mobile web is also dead.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard the apps dying was... kinda strange

Mithrandir

@ShadowTheDragonWizard Maybe they can learn from their mistakes.

Journeyman Geek

7:31 AM

@ShadowTheDragonWizard slightly dead

Nog Shine

@ShadowTheDragonWizard If we are using a laptop or desktop, we can hover using mouse to see tag excerpt. How do we do this on mobile phone even we use Desktop site on a mobile?

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@JourneymanGeek why? Pure business decision, one that I actually have no problem with, once I understood the reasoning. (Lack of money.)

Mithrandir

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@Mithrandir lol

@JourneymanGeek did they fix any bug in the mobile web view in the last year?

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir well - I think there's folks who realise there's some things it does better

@ShadowTheDragonWizard dead dead would be like SO's mobile apps ;p

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

7:34 AM

@NogShine we can't, but as with 99.999% of the feature requests, the answer is "The team has better/more urgent things to do".

@JourneymanGeek I never even tried it

Journeyman Geek

Precisely

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

It was meant only for new users, who type "stack overflow" in the Google Play or App Store, and for them alone.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard eh no

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

They hoped that millions of people will do it, but... it didn't happen.

Journeyman Geek

I think someone was a little obsessed with the SO branding

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

7:37 AM

@JourneymanGeek nah, saw some comment that the SE app didn't succeed, among other things, due to its name.

People didn't realize it's related to Stack Overflow.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard and the SO app was a ... resounding success...

@ShadowTheDragonWizard ... see that's kinda what got us into trouble IMO...

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@JourneymanGeek they hoped for millions of downloads.

Journeyman Geek

"Hey, SO's famous, lets stick the branding on everything!"

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

hmm.... well, maybe.

Journeyman Geek

"There's a ... rest of the network?"

Meta Andrew T.

7:39 AM

wow Shadow, you look... purple...

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@JourneymanGeek That's what most people who visit SO think, they have idea SE even exist.

Journeyman Geek

And I actually suspect that was a last gasp at getting the mobile apps active again

@ShadowTheDragonWizard eh, Its probably true

but I'm not very happy about that ;p

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@MetaAndrewT. thanks! You're gray as ever. ;)

Meta Andrew T.

Is the company called SO? or... was it SE? ah, maybe it's SU!

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

SUSOSE

Journeyman Geek

7:40 AM

@MetaAndrewT. As I understand it...

the legal name of the company is Stack Exchange Internet Services...

or something along those lines

but they do business as Stack Overflow

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@JourneymanGeek I suspect nobody in this world knows for sure.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard I hope Joel does

Meta Andrew T.

SOFU Exchange.

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

I stopped trying to understand/follow this naming mess long ago.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard Well, dark ages man dark ages.

Mithrandir

7:42 AM

Both Stack Exchange, Inc. and Stack Overflow, Inc. are valid legal names for the company.

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@JourneymanGeek nah.... it's just a name. ;)

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard oh, the broader thing that caused the name change

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@Mithrandir and Stack Experts? :D

Meta Andrew T.

Experts Overflow

Where we are questioning about the experts instead...

Magisch

the new apprentice is driving me mad

my precious peace and quiet :,(

Meta Andrew T.

7:51 AM

(sorry, bad joke is bad)

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

@Magisch :(

rene

@Magisch now you know how we felt when you came fresh to the job ;)

Magisch

@rene touche

rene

yw

Magisch

but he's always humming or asking questions or making some kind of noise

I'm 2 minutes away from throwing him out of the window

rene

7:55 AM

Okay, I stop the humming.

Magisch

or asking me some impressively unimportant question like do you think this server desktop wallpaper is nice. Well I don't know but I do know you just interrupted me

throws table

rene

I guess they want to socialize

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

I read not long ago the the Pyramids used to hum

rene

Did you already followed them on Twitter?

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

When they were still power generators

rene

7:57 AM

lol

Magisch

@rene yeah but I'm coding and it takes concentration

rene

So you hangout here?

Buy noise cancelling headphones

Magisch

not allowed

rene

Restrict their speech ... wait ... that might not be allowed either, anywhere

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

Maybe... wait for this.... Talk with them?

Explain gently that the humming annoys you.

Magisch

8:02 AM

Already did three times

in one ear, out the other

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

hmm

Journeyman Geek

Eh. He is probably nervous.

Meta Andrew T.

My open office is almost always nosy...

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

So either eat the frog, or be more strict about it, risking a conflict...

Magisch

I'm used to having a reasonably quiet workplace. I'll have a strong word with the sysadmin, his manager, this afternoon

Journeyman Geek

8:38 AM

hmm

-3

Q: not able to delete from coredump.pt

i have deleted an old question that i posted on stackoverflow quite a time back but it still shows at below location, https://coredump.pt/questions/44386120/facing-oom-issue-with-twitter-finagle-rest-api I also see a link to my user account and i am not able to delete this post. any helps?

discussion editing-help

dupe of the canonical scraper question?

rene

8:49 AM

@JourneymanGeek it is slightly different I think. I edited that to make it clear.

Maybe your guidance can go into the cannonical

Journeyman Geek

eh maybe, but its hardly official

rene

The canonical advices in which cases to contact SE. That specific question doesn't warrant a message to SE. As long as that is clear I guess we're good

Journeyman Geek

yup

Meta Andrew T.

9:20 AM

send a DMCA notice...

Journeyman Geek

eh

Its CC with attribution

they attributed

Meta Andrew T.

9:52 AM

... WTF, THE ADS ARE NSFW (and I'm in the office...)

Journeyman Geek

@MetaAndrewT. can you trouble yourself to get info on the ads so we can get a complaint up to SE? ;p

If their ad providers are ... horrible complaining is the best we can do

Meta Andrew T.

@JourneymanGeek oh, the coredump.pt one, not SE

(I should have installed adblock once again on office)

Journeyman Geek

ohhhhh

@MetaAndrewT. not much to do there then

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

10:20 AM

giving @Journeyman slice of bread with a hole in it

:D

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowTheDragonWizard we bake our own bread

its pretty common

Shadow The Dragon Wizard

Nice

Journeyman Geek

eats bread

@ShadowTheDragonWizard also means you don't get crappy bread.

made with the chorleywood process...

Meta Andrew T.

I want prata...

M.A.R.

11:23 AM

-17

Q: Is there a StackOverflow website for beginners? Should there be?

This isn't me condemning the website. It's an incredible website that allows programmers from all over to solve problems they couldn't before. The community isn't "toxic" as other people claim it to be, it's just difficult for a single forum to have such a large gap in knowledge and still cater...

discussion

Tempted to upvote just for the two first paragraphs.

It's not the website that's not beginner friendly at all; we love beginner questions. What we don't like is questions that don't meet our quality standards. The thing is, beginners generally assume we're going to teach them from the ground up. Unfortunately, that's not what SO is for; that's what books and other websites can do. Once you have a grounding in programming, then you should have the skillset required to understand what answers are saying. — fbueckert 11 hours ago

Of course this is true @fbueckert, but misleading IMO. The blind-leading-the-blind argument holds some water, but when most of a group assume something practically most of the questions are the way OP thinks they are

I'm not convinced such a site would function, FTR.

M.A.R.

11:36 AM

-20

A: Experiment: closing and reopening happens at 3 votes for the next 30 days (until 2019-09-07)

The votes cast on the other answers show a clear bias of this community to participate in closing questions just for the thrill of giving a knock to the fellow that asked the question. By contrast I can atest to the numerous times I have landed by searching on Google on Stackexchange web pages t...

Wow. The rudeness is staggering.

You know, I'm just gonna screenshot that next time high rep users are accused of toxicity.

They can be, of course, but easily outmatched and outnumbered by a minority of the complainers.

fbueckert

@M.A.R. Sorry, I think I'm missing your point here.

@M.A.R. Also, not sure what rudeness you're referring to; I don't see any comments from the poster.

M.A.R.

11:52 AM

@fbueckert Well, the post comparing curators to bloodhounds

fbueckert

@M.A.R. As far as insults go, there's been a lot worse directed at curators.

That one barely budges the meter.

M.A.R.

@fbueckert I'm saying "oh but we LOVE beginner questions when nicely done" is misleading because we don't get relatively that many nicely done beginner questions

@fbueckert Yeah I know. Maybe a bit of a short fuse today.

fbueckert

@M.A.R. Fair. It was more a challenge to their perception that skill level matters.

M.A.R.

Either way, the attitude being demonized is supposed to be curators' but in reality it's not.

Or perhaps there was a much nicer attitude being demonized?

30 years later, news headlines "School Teacher Arrested for Criticism Allegations"

Oh well um.

Hopefully we won't have Twitter 30 years later.

One could only hope.

@rene Oh, but you're a really niceable flower!

That is totally a word.

rene

I take your word for it

Feeds

1:25 PM

Controls are a little hard to figure out.

Magisch

1:54 PM

@JourneymanGeek the small office dog has conquered the lab too

suddenly dog is no longer disallowed from being in the lab.

Meta Andrew T.

I'm now starting to think "posts" (aka. Q&A) as our friends, and "comments" as our enemies...

@Magisch I'm a bit concerned with the safety, but I don't know the lab...

Magisch

lab personnell have been spotted using the pressurized air system to amuse the dog

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch mwahahahaha

Magisch

The bosses would do something except they're also in his spell

Aibobot

Ya, this tends to happen

Meta Andrew T.

1:59 PM

Dogs Rule the World™

Magisch

2:11 PM

apparently the dog was severely neglected before being rehomed, so now he's ridiculously cuddly and goes around getting pets from everyone

Aibobot

awww

that's basically Ash's backstory ;p

Magisch

The previous owner claimed he was too much trouble and kept disobeying

this is the most quiet, chill and nice dog I know

Aibobot

IE...he was being a dog

Magisch

no barks, no spitting, no disobeying, only overly cuddly

if this dog is too much for you, you'd despair at an actual normal dog

this dog is uncharacteristically well behaved

Aibobot

honestly the best way to get a dog to behave is to give them enough attention and tire them out

Ash kinda chewed up the trunking, bit people ....

look at him now ;p

(Oh, other than being an insufferable smartass...)

Erf. I need to go to another site at 3 am ._.

and I can't find check if the nearest convininece store is open cause its so new its not on their website

Meta Andrew T.

2:15 PM

7-11

Aibobot

cheers actually

Magisch

Honestly the poor dog got sold to an owner with no idea of a dog's needs and wants

Aibobot

@Magisch This happens a lot

Magisch

like not going on walks with the dog, expecting him to be quiet and not want to play in the evenings

Aibobot

especially with the cute cuddly fluffs

Magisch

2:16 PM

but hey, bought a 1500$ dog, right?

cretins

Aibobot

._.

@Magisch funny thing...

Magisch

If you don't want to walk a dog, don't get a dog

Aibobot

@Magisch too damned true

Magisch

all of a sudden now he's been rehomed and his new owner walks him twice a day and plays with him regularly, he's incredibly well behaved, quiet and very cuddly

Aibobot

@Magisch there's a bunch of helpers here who basically have playdates for their canine charges...

which works very well cause they tire themselves out, get socialised... and are less work

You save effort by taking care of your dog ;p

Magisch

2:20 PM

This is like the people who get kittens and surrender them once they're no longer kittens. And then they get a new kitten

Aibobot

@Magisch Ash's ex owner almost got a second dog lol

the pet shop guy was like "Take care of this one first, I'm not selling you a second"

Meta Andrew T.

Darn, I can't think clearly what to write, perhaps I need to take a rest earlier...

Glorfindel

Most sites seems to be down?

Only MSE and MSO load for me

and Ask Different, but e.g. SO is down

Meta Andrew T.

Anime.SE works, Android.SE doesn't

Glorfindel

for me, both of them work

so it's also a localized issue

Catija

2:31 PM

Maybe it's rolling.

Meta Andrew T.

Too fast for Fastly

Catija

I was getting no response from WebApps meta but on a second refresh it loaded jus tfine.

Meta Andrew T.

Ah, 2nd reload works for both

Glorfindel

yes, everything is working now.

404

2:59 PM

@Feeds ★★★☆☆ Poor location at the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the galaxy.

Also, in poor condition due to owner negligence.

Olivia

@404 The people could be better

Meta Andrew T.

3:16 PM

@Feeds ☆☆☆☆☆ too hot and salty...

Journeyman Geek

@Feeds ☆☆☆☆☆ Has cats.

Meta Andrew T.

13

Q: How could we improve our planned post notice improvements?

Megan has written a post on the Stack Overflow blog about changes that are planned/upcoming on the Stack Exchange platform I've seen a bunch of discussion about it on chat - but it feels like having it purely on the blog is a little clunky. So specifically - what does the MSE community feel abo...