Tavern on the Meta

3:00 PM

@fbueckert They're a two edged sword. They allow easily curating content, and are necessary in certain amounts to allow other community actions, like deletion. Then again, they leave no way for the person on the receiving end to 'save face', nor have I ever heard they make the person on the receiving end feel comfortable, so they're not really polite ..

Shadow Wizard

@Alex none :)

Tinkeringbell

@Alex this one: meta.stackexchange.com/q/327980/369802

Alex

@ShadowWizard But that takes away half the incentive of posting such content...

fbueckert

@Tinkeringbell Criticism, at it's heart, isn't polite.

There's no way to really present criticism solidly without having it sting a little.

No Distraction Wizard

Yeah, otherwise

54

A: Can we have some site approved canned comments to match the new CoC and welcoming?

Common Preamble Dear Precious Snowflake, I apologize for my inability to help you. It is not your fault. It is mine. Entirely mine. I'm really sorry to bother you with anything short of an immediate answer, but perhaps please could you Custom Body lack of research did you try Google? ...

Magisch

3:02 PM

@TimPost Something changed and every comment is viewed as part of an agenda now it seems

I've seen CMs say harsher things, I've seen users say harsher thing and I've said harsher things myself, but the backlash to that level is new

fbueckert

@Magisch That's easy; SE has lost the trust of its' curators.

Magisch

So are you going to ruminate every time they do anything now?

I'm no stranger to doling out harsh criticism of SE myself but at some point it becomes unconstructive

Feeds

"So their universe wouldn't have the iconic photo of a screaming Truman being hoisted aloft by the newspaper-printing machinery..."

Magisch

"You should earn our trust back first" well what exactly does that entail short of throwing every current effort of theirs away?

fbueckert

@Magisch Ruminate? No. Call out when I feel curators are attacked? For sure.

Tinkeringbell

3:05 PM

@fbueckert Sure. But there's still a difference between providing some kind of electroshock or using words... You don't just slap your kid, or send them to their room. You tell them, teach them, what they did wrong too. And as adults, you might even offer someone an opportunity at offering an explanation for their behaviour, or a way to apologize, a way to make things right again. Those make the other party feel like they have an opportunity to save some face, to keep some dignity or honor.

Downvotes really don't do that, so in a sense they're the most impolite way of leaving criticism

Catija

It's not about any one downvote being mean... that's where this is getting a bit wonky. Any one person can up or down vote... but at some point it seems to me that users should think ... huh... -8 it's off the front page now... that's probably enough. I don't need to add another downvote to this. Getting a post down to -30 is the problem, not any one vote.

Magisch

meta is remarkably poor at allowing people to save face

No Distraction Wizard

I'm out. The negativity reached my limit already.

fbueckert

@Tinkeringbell How would you propose that work in an online system, where there is no face to face, and no way of gauging emotion?

Magisch

stopping at -6 might be a start

or - whatever

fbueckert

3:07 PM

No.

I will not endorse any system that doesn't limit upvotes to the same end.

Magisch

I honestly dont think -30 is any added signal over -5 outside of more implied screw you

fbueckert

You don't. The community seems to, though.

Magisch

Upvotes serve as a way of ranking posts too

fbueckert

As do downvotes.

Tinkeringbell

@fbueckert Perhaps a good first step is working like Catija said, and start with ourselves, where, instead of just adding another downvote to the pile, we see that it's already off the frontpage, and instead we write an answer or comment explaining our disagreement

Magisch

3:08 PM

downvotes sort of lose their utility after a few into the negatives

on main, you aint gonna try a -5 answer and you aint gonna try a -15 answer

lets be real here

which one of the incorrect answers is more incorrect is also not very useful

Alex

I've upvoted many a question precisely because I thought it had a disproportionate number of downvotes.

No Distraction Wizard

why do upvotes not losing their utility?

Magisch

Because a +600 answer is above a +300 one