Tavern on the Meta

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

12:00 PM

@JourneymanGeek Don't you mean, Normal Humans (with an apostrophe)?

Journeyman Geek

no

I mean actual people names

I kinda went through about 2-3 communities where no one ever used their real names

Catija

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog It's annoying from both sides. Meta is about sharing knowledge. There's not enough of us to answer everything, so you need to realize that community answers are valuable and often correct and expecting answers from staff puts a lot of burden on us.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

In this specific case, I had doubts that Tinkeringbell's answer was correct (specifically, I didn't know if the "helpful spam flag" check also checks for same authors, and the different hypothesis I came up with was also valid).

As can be seen in my past questions, I've generally been open to community answers if I had no reason to consider otherwise.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog accepting an answer is different though

The big difference is telling someone you want an official answer.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek "accepted" in the general sense of the word.

Journeyman Geek

12:05 PM

Its fine to wait for one.

I had a recent question on my site meta where I was a little annoyed with a user and gave a curt, short, to the point answer.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

So the complaint was with the fact that I expressed it in a dismissive way, not that I simply had an internal preference?

Journeyman Geek

Another user, who isn't a mod, and is relatively new, and does a lot of good work, quietly around the site did a really good job of it.

His answer has more value than my 'offical answer'

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog you're welcome to your internal preferences, as long as they are internal

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Worth mentioning that I've seen - both on the sending and receiving end - where questions I've asked or answered have had staff answers posted that directly contradicted the community answers.

Journeyman Geek

Which is fine

Shadow Wizard

True ^

Journeyman Geek

12:08 PM

But in a high functioning site - its ok to see an answer that's not right, and post a more correct answer based off the information you have

not just meta

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

In this specific case, I had specific reason to think twice about her answer, since I came up with an entirely different hypothesis from hers which was also valid and reasoned in the same manner as answerers do, and her answer had some holes that make it seem invalid.

Journeyman Geek

I don't think you're getting that other people exist

her answer didn't have to be perfect

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

It doesn't have to be. That's not what I'm saying.

Journeyman Geek

but you also need to be aware and appreciative of the time and effort folks put in.

And that comment didn't reflect that.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Yes, and I'm sorry if that comment made it seem like I wasn't.

(FYI I was typing that message before you posted the last one)

Journeyman Geek

12:11 PM

I don't need apologies though. I'm not the affected party or parties

I'd like understanding

maybe growth

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Yes, in fact if you check my profile, you'll see many other questions where I have outwardly appreciated other, non-staff answers.

Such as the one about interacting with suspended chat users, or the one about privileges not awarded with mod rights, etc.

Journeyman Geek

Well, I pointed out a specific case, and a broader idea of empathy.

So "action" "effect" "mitigation"

No Distraction Wizard

TGIF!

Journeyman Geek

and that certain things just don't work the way you want them to (sometimes?) and that's ok

@NoDistractionWizard Its monday. And I'm off work

Shadow Wizard

@NoDistractionWizard EXIF!

Shadow Wizard

12:46 PM

@Sonic disregard my last comment, it's indeed 100% spammer: alternativeto.net/software/ncache/reviews

> I have been working on NCache from a long period now

Spammer using same avatar, n00b mistake. lol

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Who said something is not clear? — Shadow Wizard 51 secs ago

It got downvoted.

Shadow Wizard

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog sigh

So?

Who said it's because it's unclear?

You of all people should know by now there are many reasons to downvote on Meta.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Don't get me started on how the system treats them. "I disagree with this and think the author should lose rep for having posted this."

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog funny thing is it's the same system we all deal with

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

In short, it's a roundabout way of asking why people downvoted, without actually doing so.

If I get no response, it's subjective. If I do get a response (because I didn't phrase it as "why u downvote dis?") then there's something to improve.

Journeyman Geek

12:55 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog rather than worrying about the numbers...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Sort of like saying, "it would be great if someone explained to me potential pitfalls [with this feature request], so I can edit it to address concerns".

No Distraction Wizard

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Don't get us started that the current system is not your ideal.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I don't want to get started on it.

The conversations already exist.

Journeyman Geek

It might be worth considering what the effect your words have on people

Shadow Wizard

Most of the times edits won't help anyway, and wondering about downvotes rarely ends well.

No Distraction Wizard

12:56 PM

Alright, then let's think about Labor(ous) Day on May 1

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek What specific words where?

Journeyman Geek

In general

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

So you mean to say, they downvoted me because I posted it, and wouldn't have if someone else had posted the exact same text?

No Distraction Wizard

nvm, I got baited...

!!/blame me

SmokeDetector

@NoDistractionWizard It's Rory Alsop's fault.

Shadow Wizard

12:59 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog that's an option too, yes. I consider this as part of being long time user, and it's fine too.

No Distraction Wizard

@SmokeDetector yeah, we have crossed path each other at random metas sometime...

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well not directly

Shadow Wizard

e.g. the most extreme case I know of is Evan. I admit that few times I downvoted where I wouldn't have done it if same thing was posted by someone else. (Not all his posts, just... few times.)

No Distraction Wizard

Anyway, I remember there's an answer on MSE talking about how presentation is one of the factor for good meta post... where is it when I need it...

Journeyman Geek

But more broadly what you say is coloured by how people see you

And by your understanding of the audience

If you're constantly complaining about downvotes...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:02 PM

Yes, I'm aware of the factor that tone has on posts. I've been careful to phrase my (otherwise) more controversial posts such that they are more likely to be positively received, and have come across several other posts that express good ideas but do so badly.

No Distraction Wizard

@JourneymanGeek "Then SE is not for you"™

Journeyman Geek

Well kinda.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

And I'm also aware of how capricious downvoting can be. For instance, every request I've made regarding making reopening easier has encountered at least a little flack from users, one of which expressed that they believe reopening should be much more difficult than closing (even if it means misrepresenting questions to reviewers).

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog and you deal with it

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

stroopwafels

Journeyman Geek

1:05 PM

On the other hand

If you're considering the impact you have on the community, you do more good

A lot of stuff I do on SE probably never gets seen. And that's fine

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Also, when you're targeting the Curious/Inquisitive/Socratic badge...a single downvoted question can end up ruining your entire day.

No Distraction Wizard

So... I'm targeting Peer Pressure badge right now...

Shadow Wizard

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog you're not the first or the last to be upset about unexplained downvotes, e.g.

Jul 4 '14 at 15:52, by Final Contest

meta? The place where you can downvote for free without understanding stuff? Thanks, but no thanks.

No Distraction Wizard

That's like... 5 years ago, when there was always a recent one of the metas...

Shadow Wizard

People still downvote without explaining, nothing really changed on that matter. :)

John Dvorak

1:17 PM

The COC kinda encourages that, too. You can't get punished for breaking your conduct accidentally if you don't say anything.

Shadow Wizard

True too yeah

No Distraction Wizard

1:29 PM

So... you look catfish.

Tinkeringbell

@JohnDvorak You don't get punished for breaking conduct accidentally, unless you're making it a habit, then it's not longer accidental though.

Shadow Wizard

Some people can't help it.

Most do which is good, but I also believe some simply can't change their ways, so their only option is to not post anything.

No Distraction Wizard

Some help can eat people.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Hmmm. I'm never fond of people claiming they can't change.

Everyone can learn, some a bit quicker than others, but on SE, I'd expect a level of intelligence that implies people can learn ;)

Otherwise people wouldn't be asking questions to begin with, they're what's needed to learn...

Shadow Wizard

Not always about intelligence, some can change but find it really hard, think that's the case with @Sonic. He love the site enough to make those efforts, but I'm pretty sure many in his condition won't.

Tinkeringbell

1:39 PM

@ShadowWizard Still, not a case of 'can't change' like you first said. Really hard != can't.

True, people often shout 'can't' when stuff is just 'really hard'.

Shadow Wizard

Well... same final result: they don't post or leave.

No Distraction Wizard

That said... (non-affiliated shameless advertisement)

61

Neurodiversity

Proposed Q&A site for the people looking to know more about neurodiversity (autism, ADH-D, dys- spectrum, OCD ...) and for neurodiverse people looking for some advice on how to deal with neurotypical-based situations.

Currently in definition.

Tinkeringbell

@NoDistractionWizard Already following that one, though I'm not sure how well it's going to work.

Shadow Wizard

@NoDistractionWizard Isn't it covered in ~~Health~~ Medical Science.SE?

Tinkeringbell

Even earned a nice question badge there, I now see :D

@ShadowWizard I'm thinking this one is a bit more after practical advice, instead of medical... but yeah, it might overlap a lot of medical science and also with psychology/neuroscience

It's already a bit telling that there's a load of interested people, but little/no example questions

Margarine

2:23 PM

@Tinkeringbell It does sound like one of those topics. Need OR popularity in themselves aren't enough for a site to function

@Tinkeringbell CAN'T

Adam Lear

3:29 PM

@ShadowWizard Out of curiosity... what exactly was the point of saying this a solid day and a half after I said I had a fix ready?

Margarine

3:51 PM

@AdamLear What if it was a smooth sphere and didn't have a point?

Adam Lear

@Margarine 🤔

user302202

5:36 PM

@KaranHarshWardhan: Don't tell anyone, but the next episode is going to be released tomorrow. We have a bit of a backlog right now, but I don't want to run out over the summer when people take vacation. At any rate, followers are very low on the priority list compared to getting into a sustainable habit for us. It's possible we'll record faster in the future since it really isn't time consuming. — Jon Ericson ♦ 26 mins ago

user302202

tells everyone

user302202

Speaking of podcasts, Random Wikipedia page ran through TTS is one of my favorites.

user302202

News in Slow Spanish are good too, mostly because I still can't follow spoken Spanish.

John Dvorak

You have been duped into becoming their marketing pawn. Do you not think the creator of a website as big as Stack Exchange doesn't know a thing about the Streisand effect?

user302202

coils in shame

MEE the setup wizard

5:45 PM

And just now I re-read all the legal agreements I'm in on this site. I'm a criminal ... — rene 46 mins ago

user302202

5:56 PM

Users don't upload images to SE, they are uploaded to imgur... the site only has a URL which itself isn't copyrighted.

Travis J

Mmm... not entirely accurate.

The imgur section that SE rents is technically still part of SE liability.

Not that it matters. There is no legal precedence for images that has ever been enforced for the internet aside from improper use with regards to impersonation.

user302202

Stuff gets deleted via DMCA, and nobody gets sued?

user302202

OK, that's not so bad.

MEE the setup wizard

I feel sorry for the Internet as a European...

user302202

@JohnDvorak Still not as bad as being duped into becoming a content-moderation pawn.

Tinkeringbell

6:02 PM

@MEEthesetupwizard article 13?

MEE the setup wizard

@Tinkeringbell yep

I don't really care about Facebook, etc...

What I think problematic how it applies to small commercial community-run sites (like SE).

Feeds

6:52 PM

Menu -> Manage -> [Optimize space usage, Encrypt disk usage report, Convert photos to text-only, Delete temporary files, Delete permanent files, Delete all files currently in use, Optimize menu options, Download cloud, Optimize cloud , Upload unused space to cloud]

No Distraction Wizard

@Feeds uploading unused space to cloud seems a pretty nifty idea though...

EKons

um... I think it means "add more space to your cloud, if you organize your stuff well you're getting more" :P

John Dvorak

I think it means the Internet stashes its own exciting images on your hard drive without your express consent

ArtOfCode

... @Sonic was this really necessary? That's bumped a long-stale post to the top of meta for... a superfluous single-word change.

4

Margarine

@JohnDvorak I think it has grown to have a very gruesome idea of "exciting"

@ArtOfCode Is it just one edit?

ArtOfCode

7:08 PM

Aye

Margarine

meh

Wow, was the name revert to SO really in 2015?

What the hell have I been doing these four years? O.o

> I had change to help a new-comer to stack overflow in this question.

Teehee, the typo gave it a whole different meaning

Although I am inclined to think of 1-reppers who don't ever capitalize as hobos asking for change

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:28 PM

@ArtOfCode See my most recent answer.

ArtOfCode

that doesn't explain why a superfluous single-word change was necessary

there are some small edits that make sense and are good and useful

there are some that do nothing and bump old things for no reason

that was one of the latter

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I was planning to edit in an editor's note regarding the brand name change, but I wasn't sure how to word it (plus I'm on mobile)

ArtOfCode

again, why does it need one?

it's 7 years old and has been fine as it is for all of those years

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

This is so confusing. It's like as if you could buy a Corolla from the Toyota Network, but then find out that the Toyota Network is actually The Corolla Company and that people who bought Camrys are still Corolla customers. — Robert Columbia 2 mins ago

ArtOfCode

7:56 PM

and "official legal" made that unequivocally clearer than simply "official", did it?

user302202

@Feeds -1 for lack of colors in the pie chart. Randall is getting lazy.

user302202

prints out the comic to color it

user302202

I know, colou?r is the universally correct spelling.

Margarine

8:35 PM

Coulour.

user302202

@NoDistractionWizard Physics election is back to its previous state with 3 candidates (one unqualified). :/

user302202

in The h Bar on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 3 hours ago, by ACuriousMind

@Blue @vzn @SirCumference You can stop pestering Kyle, it was CM action, not his own choice.

Margarine

Censorship and freedom of X rights invokation meta post in 10, 9, 8

user302202

No, he's not like that afaik.

Margarine

That is no fun

Meanwhile, Chem's nominations started

5 or 6 people said they would nominate

@VoteDukakis I forgot that the real fun in physics.SE comes from the crackpots

If I want a freedom of speech meta post I should probably look in Politics or Law

Although even that is sometimes too convoluted with boring math. Chem charlatans are the best.

Skeptics isn't too bad either

user302202

9:33 PM

AU election could be fun, too (next week)

No Distraction Wizard

11:42 PM

@Margarine Philosophy.SE might also be fun...

user302202

iirc candidates can withdraw at any stage of election.

user302202

What happens if one of 3 Physics candidates withdraws now?

user302202

11:58 PM

On one hand, it seems the election should be cancelled as it's no longer competitive. On the other... looks like a way to sabotage the election for a candidate who had no chance of winning.

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