Tavern on the Meta

12:35 AM

@AdamLear I noticed you marked this Area 51 Discussions post as status-review. Would you mind also doing the same with the corresponding MSE post please?

user302202

1:44 AM

Unrelated: is it Normal to like Star Trek in general, but to find The Original Series unwatchable?

Journeyman Geek

Yes

user302202

Yes to the reports or the ST thing?

Aibobot

Yes

user495830

Yes to the reports.

Aibobot

Well for the former, there's a lot of stuff smokey watches for 'in case'

My personal domain name would probably trip off smokey

As for ST...

production values and acting have changed a lot in the time inbwtween

user495830

1:48 AM

@Aibobot Precisely what I was going to say. (the first one, not your personal domain name)

Aibobot

@VoteDukakis I'm not a fan of some of those criteria buuuuut, they're harmless since there's no actual votes

@Mr.YouKnowWhoIAm namecheap's apparently on the list, lots of scammers use them

but they're a decent, painless to use, reasonably priced host.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

2:44 AM

@VoteDukakis Ask the folks in Charcoal HQ if you want to know why

user495830

3:08 AM

Anyways, ...

user302202

3:30 AM

Physics election is supposed to begin in 2 days. Need 3 candidates to compete for two slots... so far, one candidate with < 500 rep and 0 moderation badges.

user302202

I think @Rob should run in that election. Can't ever have enough robs on a mod team.

John Dvorak

4:11 AM

If I hop in, there'll be two candidates with zero participation

It would be nice to have the ability to vote for an empty chair

maybe CMs should nominate Community and Community as backups

user495830

4:30 AM

Only one candidate?! Doesn't anyone else want to be a moderator on Physics? I'm not in Physics or anything, but that is just surprising!

No Distraction Wizard

You want to be a moderator?

user495830

@NoDistractionWizard No! I just said I am not in Physics!

No Distraction Wizard

Just a (not-so) hypothetical question when there's an election on an SE site that you're actively participating...

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Existing mods can stand for "reconfirmation"

user495830

@NoDistractionWizard I am sorry, but who exactly were you asking?

No Distraction Wizard

4:36 AM

@Mr.YouKnowWhoIAm actually, you 😉

Magisch

@Mr.YouKnowWhoIAm You could probably get aanother few non candidates when pressed for it

getting 300 rep on a site in a week is doable even if you have 0 clue of the subject matter

user495830

@Magisch Anything to do with me getting an amount of rep in the 100s is impossible.

user495830

@NoDistractionWizard Sorry, I cannot read that emoji in that last message (either a Firefox or Tor Browser thing, probably Firefox).

No Distraction Wizard

oh, the emoji is irrelevant anyway

Anyway...

5

Q: What should this site be called now that it's getting a design?

As we're designing the site, we are considering the name and how the logo/wordmark of the site will look (be excited, that means we're actually in-progress!!!). In our discussions internally, there was a question of what y'all actually call this site. As an outsider, I tend to refer to it as "PPC...

to golf the site name, or not to golf, that is the question

user495830

@NoDistractionWizard If I am interpreting this correctly, to golf? I think "Code Golf" is descriptive enough.

No Distraction Wizard

4:47 AM

But the site is not only about code golfing, there are many other types of scoring rules that are less apparent...

user495830

@NoDistractionWizard I think writing "Programming Puzzles and Code Golf" is too long, especially "Programming". The question says that "it will limit our choices as we balance fit with design".

user495830

I cannot find any synonyms for "programming" other than coding.

Journeyman Geek

5:15 AM

@Mr.YouKnowWhoIAm eh. Just post a decent answer a day on a moderately high traffic site

Rob

5:45 AM

@VoteDukakis Thanks. I'm often quite busy and know so many whom would be a better candidate, though they are likely busy too, I'll need to sit out this round. Still, good to know that I'd win by one vote. :)

Rob

6:07 AM

As for getting Rep on that site, check out the front page. Questions are lucky to get a few votes and an answer. Answers are lucky to get two votes. People with over 100K whom answer aren't earning 50 rep for an answer, and often the questions aren't simple to answer. Many people would be fortune to earn 300 in a month, thinking someone whom knows little about the subject could earn it in a week is optimistic.

Shadow Wizard

7:00 AM

KABOOM x 2

forest

7:50 AM

I have a weird bug to report.

Every time I click "move this convo to chat", my avatar changes.

Specifically, my default profile picture is my Information Security one, but when I click the "move this convo to chat" button, not only does the convo not get moved (it doesn't create a new post with the link to the chat), but my avatar changes to my Cryptography one on all sites. When I look at my chat user settings, it says the default is Information Security (which it should be, but which is not displaying), so I have to change it away and back again for it to work.

This is officially the weirdest bug I've come across on this site.

Aibobot

o0

forest

This is the page that triggers it: crypto.stackexchange.com/a/70129/54184

When I click "move to chat", my avatar changes on all chat sites (all chat sites reload themselves, etc). The only thing I can think of is that I think the OP of that post clicked "move to chat" themselves, but then deleted the comment.

Aibobot

technically that would only be replicable on your account

or another one with the same specific edgecase

forest

Very possibly, but it's still freaking weird.

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/92961/…

This is the discussion which triggers it (that's the one that OP created but which he deleted). Each time I push move to chat, that's when the image changes.

Let me try it again and see if it does it again...

Yup it did it again (although not on Meta.SE chat).

And according to chat.stackexchange.com/users/323957/forest (my settings page), the avatar shows as the incorrect one for Cryptography, yet it says the default parent site is currently set as Information Security. I have to change it away and back to revert that.

Perhaps if I click "move to chat" on some site where the previous chat link was deleted, then my avatar gets changed to whatever one is set for that site?

What horrific code could be causing such a random bug?

Someone else could test this by setting a unique profile picture for Cryptography (if it's not their default site), then going to crypto.stackexchange.com/a/70129/54184 and clicking "move to chat" with some other (non-meta) chat open, to see if that triggers a profile picture change like it does for me.

@JourneymanGeek Who do I pester to get this looked into?

Because this is the third or fourth time this has happened to me.

And it's getting on my nerves.

Aibobot

@forest meta's still the best bet

forest

8:02 AM

guh

Aibobot

until the promised, more bug trackery thing is ready

forest

If the damn site was open source I could find out myself. :/

Aibobot

its an interesting bug. I'd upvote that

forest

Alright I'll open one.

0

Q: Bug causing profile picture to change when moving comments to chat

I have a profile picture set on site A, and a different profile picture on site B. Site A is my default parent site, so it's the one that should show in all chat windows. However the image seemingly randomly changes to that of site B when I click "automatically move comments to chat" on a particu...

bug chat profile-picture

@Aibobot

in Maid Café (メイド喫茶) on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 22 mins ago, by Memor-X

holy fuck your avatar just changed as i was typing

Other people noticed it as it happened to me.

in Maid Café (メイド喫茶) on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 12 mins ago, by Memor-X

@forest yeh. i only expect that when someone updates their avatar but it;s never like that because Cache

forest

8:39 AM

(If I find a security bug in this crappy closed source code, I'm not reporting it)

Not that I have the desire to waste time looking for one (I have other priorities)...

I just hate needing to used closed source crap and wait for devs to find fixes. :P

Aibobot

lol

I'm doubtful the SO source code's open to anyone other than the 4 companies they apparently sold it to in the old days and forgot about....

forest

Yep

It's hypocrisy of the biggest kind to host a closed site that's largely for FOSS.

It's for the same reason that I dislike Github.

Now I'm sure the site is insecure enough to get the code if really necessary.

But I certainly don't care enough to try. :P

Aibobot

@forest well, SO probably didn't really start off as a closed site

forest

It did.

It started off as a closed .NET project or something. And that's still what it is.

Aibobot

I think it literally started with "Hey, the hyphen site has a good model but they are messing up badly!"

I mean FOSS site

tjeu

forest

8:48 AM

Yeah I get what you mean. And it certainly isn't exclusively FOSS.

Aibobot

Pardon me, using a sidebar and apparently typing like I have paws

forest

But they literally have tens of thousands of expert developers who could help them fix bugs (even if only a dozen helped, that would be huge) for free.

Instead they complain that it's oh-so-hard to fix bugs and that some bugs are simply impossible to fix (including ones that allow gaming the system).

I love how the answer to most bug reports on Meta isn't "thanks for the report, we'll look into this", but is instead "well that's a bug but here's why we can't fix it...".

Aibobot

@forest its worth remembering though, both Joel and Jeff are closed source guys

though Jeff converted

forest

Yep.

Aibobot

and well, in some ways I don't think the resources behind SE grew as fast as the platform

forest

8:52 AM

Imagine if their resources could be increased for free by an order of magnitude...

Aibobot

or they grew some things out that they assumed would be more useful than they were

forest

If only there was a huge community of programs who knew about the site...

Aibobot

@forest true, but right now, they're pretty much selling the site as a product.

forest

Yeah, which is ridiculous. Community-based sites should not be driven by profit. There should be no shareholders for a site composed entirely of a community.

All that should be necessary is income sufficient to run the servers and to pay developers and those working professionally to keep the site running.

Not to give money to shareholders.

Basically a non-profit.

But alas, money is more important than quality.

They'd kick out every single person in the community if it got them 0.5% more revenue.

(I'm probably being too cynical, but whatever)

Aibobot

when have you been otherwise?

forest

8:58 AM

When I'm really high.

Aibobot

@forest its worth remembering there's a few different factors pulling the company in different directions

and of course sometimes miss things

@forest Well, from that podcast that someone linked a while back...

I suspect that revenue growth is still a priority

forest

mhm

Aibobot

but I do think they still have the hyphen site at the back of their minds

forest

Why? That site is half-dead already.

It's not like it's going to be an existential risk to SE.

Aibobot

more in terms of the mistakes they made

forest

9:13 AM

oh?

Journeyman Geek

Well finding that balance between user growth and retaining folks who contribute is hard

Aibobot

and honestly - trying to work out what're the right technical and soft fixes

My big issue with how some of SE's initiatives to help new users is how top down they were. That said, at the very least its easier to get feedback to the community team these days...

forest

The initiatives to help new users, the ask a question wizard notwithstanding, were absolutely horrible (and actually quite offensive and belittling).

Mithrandir

9:31 AM

Did the orange sidebar box change how it looks, or is it just me?

Aibobot

9:43 AM

Well I had issues with how they were, but its all on meta ;p

Aibobot

10:24 AM

I think there were mentions of making it - and I quote a CM quoting another CM "less dog piss yellow"

with better spelling...

@Mithrandir Its not just you

Margarine

10:59 AM

Thank you Bhargav. Seems obvious now that users like myself & reviewers mentioned in OP may have been destroying value on the site for some time now, however unintentionally, by wrongly flagging/reviewing such posts; and god knows how many of my 1.2K flags reported as "helpful" are indeed such, or just the result of misguided reviewers (doesn't happen infrequently, as I reckon). As much as I appreciate your & Baum's efforts to make be a better reviewer, the thought that, even occasionally & unintentionally, I may be a value destroyer here, is literally unbearable, so I respectfully withdraw. — desertnaut 26 mins ago

Aren't they a bit exaggerating

I wanna dream my nemesis is called Value Destroyer though

@Aibobot Now that's a surprise

rene

@Mithrandir it's on the starboard ... you're looking for dog-p* ...

No Distraction Wizard

My archenemy is Pity the Upvoter though.

rene

I'm Pity

Margarine

@NoDistractionWizard Is Pity a girl's name? Sounds like a girl's name

Pitfall sounds like a German soccer player

1

A: Cross-answer Sniping

I'm wondering: Me too what others think I'm fine with it. whether this sort of behaviour is widespread I don't see it very often but I only visit SO, MSO and MSE whether critique of an answer should be limited to the comment section for that answer No, if...

> I'm wondering:
Me too

That is PERFECT.

rene

thanks

No Distraction Wizard

11:06 AM

I can't cross-snipe your answer because I agree with it :(

rene

I started of with only the bullets but it missed an good opening and this was the laziest solution I could come up with

Tinkeringbell

@rene You've been sniping me! I was writing a whole novel there and here he goes with just a few lines XD

rene

Lazy Sunday ...

You'll win this one. You have the diamond bonus ...

No Distraction Wizard

You both did sniping each other, didn't you...

rene

also: longer is not better ...

Can we have a tl;dr; for the tl;dr;?

Tinkeringbell

11:16 AM

@rene I know... I just thought it could use the nuance ;)

Mithrandir

@rene @Aibobot cool, thanks

rene

You know me when it comes to nuance ...

Aibobot

jokes on both of you

weekends are quiet. I have a mon/tues weekend, and a 3 day night shift coming it

No Distraction Wizard

Laborous day...

Looks liek I can't use this query? WHERE Body LIKE '%compared to%answer%'

No Distraction Wizard

11:37 AM

Anyway...

1

Q: Style guide for safety warnings in answers?

Are there any best practices (e.g. formatting) for safety warnings in answers? I’ve found a couple of answers where I might want to add an explicit safety warning that what’s being described is dangerous. Blockquote? Bold? Emoji? 💀 ❗️⚠️ In the absence of guidance I’d propose the following...

discussion formatting

If only there's style guide for emoji warnings in answers...

rene

11:59 AM

@NoDistractionWizard if you try that on SO then yes. You'll timeout. Try this one

Margarine

12:19 PM

@NoDistractionWizard Now I want style guides for writing style guides.

Journeyman Geek

It's style guides all the way down

Margarine

> To find out your rights, you need to contact a lawyer who works in your jurisdiction. This means in the country this happened in, or in the US state if it happened in the US.

Already talks like a lawyer

John Dvorak

Magisch

1:21 PM

Most lawyers have a certain cadence for talking and a general tone and gist

i.E you usually know you're talking to a lawyer quickly without being told.

Journeyman Geek

1:34 PM

falls over

No Distraction Wizard

I've been following some lawyers on YouTube due to... a case related to someone and comic cons...

that made YouTube a (better?) replacement of Twitter regarding social news...

user302202

1:54 PM

SEDE Sunday: review actions by month. On Stack Overflow they are approaching pre-triage numbers. On Android they are approaching 0.

user302202

The table calls these "review results" but they are really actions of the reviewer, since they do not necessarily complete the review.

No Distraction Wizard

oops, nvm, wrong deduction

user302202

Bonus: Most common review actions [so far this year, to get the current state of events]

user302202

Most common: Not Sure, 860K on SO. Least common: Edit and Reopen, 220 on SO. That's without "K".

No Distraction Wizard

Not Sure about that...

user302202

2:08 PM

I expected RecDel to be higher. IMO the main remaining value of the review, such as it is, is removing blatant non-answers ("I have the same problem"). But it's just 7651 for RecDel and 898 for Del.

user302202

Considering that it takes 2K to RecDel versus 20K to Del, much greater difference of numbers could be expected here.

No Distraction Wizard

Possibility of SOCVR skewing the count outside of review queue? Or irrelevant?

user302202

2:34 PM

:shrug: about the same for SU, with one exception: Do Not Close is more popular than Close on SU.

Journeyman Geek

true, but but we don't have as much angst over who's a real computer user.

user302202

In retrospect, it makes sense that most actions come from first posts queue, which does not recommend deletion by itself.

Rob

3:16 PM

@NoDistractionWizard Use the Tardigrade emoji for safety warnings:

The tardigrade is one of the most resilient animals.

user302202

4:52 PM

API docs say that user_type is "one of unregistered, registered, moderator, team_admin, or does_not_exist".

user302202

There ought to be a new version number for the API if we are talking about team_admin and such.

user302202

More interestingly, when would this return does_not_exist?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@VoteDukakis Probably due to missing data from imports from SE 1.0 or hashcode.ru?

No Distraction Wizard

I just realized the API still returns "accept rate" :/

user302202

Backward compatibility. Why break old applications for no reason.

Magisch

5:00 PM

@Rob iirc they can withstand the coldness of space and extreme radiation, too.

user302202

The linked wiki goes at great length about that

user302202

5:11 PM

I don't remember seeing the /events API method at all, is this something added recently because Teams?

Rob

5:41 PM

Phew, more candidates for Physics.SE. 😌 : Tardigrade:

Margarine

6:06 PM

@Rob I think a cockroach emoji would be close enough

No Distraction Wizard

alright, I think it's now a ~~no-contest~~ contest for 2nd position now...

Rob

6:23 PM

I was worried that with only one candidate that I wouldn't be able to vote, and earn a shiny badge.

rene

7:01 PM

@VoteDukakis no, had been there a long time. It does require authentication to use it.

user302202

You can't. Who posts something doesn't matter. The content does. — fbueckert 3 hours ago

user302202

Same old same old... but if SE has a long term future, filtering without reading has to be in it. Anything else is soul draining and there's a limited amount of soul available.

user302202

Pulp - A Little Soul

►

user302202

7:33 PM

-1

A: how to solve not significant "error correction term" on error correction model while coefficient is negative?

It is so sad that you were penalized for your sentence structure and now we all do not have the feedback.

user302202

Heh. That's 1000 views for an unanswered/-able question which a bunch of users criticized in comments, but none downvoted.

user302202

Just another search dead end, one of many thousands on Stats.

Margarine

8:25 PM

thank you for your help @Nick Cox, i am forget to read some rule before posting — R. Novita Jan 27 '17 at 12:13

Expectations expectations. I bet you 14 million dollars that was supposed to be sarcasm on OP's part

The idea that they had to read some rule before posting is outrageous to them

Rather than the "i"s, someone should have commented: Sorry princess, but we don't OWE a response to you.

Of course, in a nicer way with extra layers of sugar so it won't violate Clash of Clans.

user302202

-1

Q: CAPITALIZATION OF NAMES ON , DRIVERS LICENSE, LIGHT BILLS, CELL PHONE BILLS, PERSONAL CHECKS, INSURANCE CARDS, ALL REGISTRATIONS AND DEEDS AS WELL!

As you can see in my title is in all capital letters. As you can see in my title is in all capital letters! The reason that our names are in all capital letters can and is explained when you look up Ens Legis, and then go to rule 220 Minnesota website. This is what is known as creating a trust/en...

mobile-web

user302202

I was so ready to flag as driver license/ID spam...

Margarine

I'm somewhere between shaking head and facing palm. Or palming face

So it turned out to be this weird hybrid move that seems like I wanna imitate an African-American rapper.

user495830

I do not understand a single thing in that post.

user495830

All I know is that it is off-topic.

user495830

8:32 PM

And it is weird.

user495830

Just simply weird.

Mithrandir

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ...is there any reason that you do stuff like that in here instead of CHQ?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Mithrandir It it a problem?

I don't normally have CHQ open all the time so I find it more convenient to interact with it here rather than open it there

user302202

I don't object to where, but this post isn't in the scope for Smokey.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

It seemed like non-link spam to me.

user302202

8:37 PM

Which it isn't.

Mithrandir

You're more likely for people to notice in CHQ who can give you feedback on your watches, reports, etc., moreso than here. It's also easier for checking back to see who, when, and why things were reported, watched, etc. It also clutters up the Tavern a bit. So.... yeah, I'd really prefer if you keep that to CHQ.

user302202

I cluttered it way more by oneboxing the post here.

user495830

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think you could just reply “spam” to the report. See charcoal-se.org/smokey/Commands#privileged-commands-as-reply.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

There was no report. I just created one using that command.

user495830

Oh.

user495830

8:43 PM

Anyways, what does it (the post) all mean? 😀

user495830

Answer: complete nonsense.

user302202

Just checked: my name is in all-caps on my state ID. Not on the university ID, though.

user302202

Minnesota's Rule 220 is about birth certificates but it's not about their casing.

Margarine

@Mithrandir Ooooh, obsessed with keeping good ol' home clean . . . I bet your hands smell like Dettol right now

Mithrandir

my hands smell like dust and old books, having just cleared a thousand books off the bookcase

not even exaggerating on the number, literally ~1,000

Margarine

8:58 PM

Oh I always love doing that

Roughly 20 percent turns out to be really relevant or important stuff

Mithrandir

yeah... for some reason you never quite realize just how many books there are on the bookcase until you take them off

it always seems like fewer when they're on the shelf

Margarine

And in my case, another 20 percent seems to be commercial drug leaflets and drug-themed notebooks

user302202

@Margarine Naturally, that's the 20 percent that will be lost in shipping.

Margarine

@Mithrandir And potentially less interesting

user302202

(if the handling of books is related to moving.)

Margarine

9:00 PM

It's only when throwing/giving away stuff that you realize ZOMG I HAZ 10001 USES FOR DIS

user495830

I am suddenly confused.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

10:37 PM

Which one to use first?

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