Tavern on the Meta

forest

2:20 AM

I just found a site selling some kind of powerful flash light. It's measuring the color temperature at 3400°K and this is really triggering me (Kelvin is an absolute measure so it's never measured in degrees). I wonder if I should email them.

I also wonder if it would do any good.

Probably not, since they already call everything "military-grade" and "aircraft-grade".

Journeyman Geek

2:35 AM

@forest errr.... Actually....

Is colour temperature actually in K?

forest

Yes

But it's in K, not °K.

Journeyman Geek

Ah

Ya.

forest

>5000K is a "cool color" for example.

(Note that the visual is inaccurate due to limitations of LCD screens)

user302202

It kinda looks like a hyperdimensional four-sided quantum Klein manifold

user302202

Where else do you see an axis terminating with ∞ symbol and obviously having some room to continue.

forest

2:41 AM

heh

forest

4:55 AM

I love stumbling upon famous researchers or scientists on SE.

Just found out that Peter Shor uses the site.

user437611

6:30 AM

@forest Unfortunately, he's more into the English site these days. :)

forest

6:48 AM

@Blue Nothing wrong with that. Linguistics is fascinating.

user437611

7:05 AM

@forest I didn't say there's anything wrong with that.

user437611

By "unfortunate" I implied that the CS and physics sites could do with more of his excellent answers.

forest

7:21 AM

Ah I see

forest

7:48 AM

Why do people sometimes spam with just random letters?

Like "asdlfisajdofisa" as an answer? It makes no sense.

It doesn't seem like they're trying to be edgy trolls, and they obviously aren't selling something. Are they just trying to see if it's possible to post or something?

Tinkeringbell

Probably...

forest

-2

A: Why are primes important for encryption

Tifi4irkudujrjfjsusjcjgjdjbkrkgkfkrkkvodibigibibj k kk k iicdixifjfjdjje

Like wth is this?

Tinkeringbell

It's encrypted! :P

Magisch

VLQ?

forest

lol

Tinkeringbell

7:51 AM

I though nonsense like that was okay to red flag?

forest

I think it is. Also I see no VLQ selection, just NAA.

Magisch

depends on the user

Tinkeringbell

> Abuse of the system or community is everything that is created with the intention to harm them. This includes posts by new users that contain no useful content at all – i.e. gibberish posts along the lines of:

asdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasd

forest

Interestingly, some spambots communicated by sending semi-nonsense spam with steganography used to encode commands. :P

Magisch

red if its a new user and you want it gone now, naa if it can wait

Tinkeringbell

7:53 AM

@Magisch Why though? If a user that knows the site goes around posting gibberish, they kinda deserve the rep penalty :P

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Prior positive contributors get the benefit of the doubt of a "cat on keyboard" scenario

forest

I once saw on IRC someone almost get kickbanned for that.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Ah.

What if they don't have cats, and I know it? :P

Bookends

Then "dog on keyboard"...

forest

He was cleaning his keyboard or something and forgot to lock the screen and posted like 15 lines of random crap. Everyone thought it was a spammer.

Magisch

7:55 AM

cat on keyboard is a concept. Can also be that you hit a bunch of crap and then accidentally clicked on post, and didn't notice

forest

Cow on keyboard?

Tinkeringbell

I'm going to go with 'my pet goldfish did it.'

forest

Best line I've ever seen for saying you have to leave in the middle of a video game:

> Sorry I gotta go. My cat's on fire.

Alt+F4 *click*

Magisch

tbh if my cat is on fire I do not have the time to alt f4 or write that out

forest

reddit.com/r/talesfromtechsupport/comments/8cpcxn/…

Sometimes it's good to wait when something is on fire. :D

Tinkeringbell

8:01 AM

@forest Isn't there a kind of cooking where you deliberately set the food on fire for a short while?

forest

Yeah that's pretty common.

Especially with food involving alcohol. You have to "burn it off" in a pan.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell flambe ;p

@Bookends we type fine

forest

That's when you use alcohol.

Journeyman Geek

High proof alcohol.

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Thanks. That's the word I couldn't remember ;)

Journeyman Geek

8:05 AM

Wine dosen't burn. It's typically something distilled like whisky or brandy

forest

It's neat because not enough alcohol to get you drunk, so kids are fine with it.

And it really only changes the taste.

Magisch

pretty sure if you actually cook with wine, there's no alcohol left in the finished meal because ethanol has a much lower boiling point then water

forest

There is some left.

But not enough to cause intoxication.

Mithrandir

8:29 AM

@ShadowWizard don't remember if I've shared this before, but imgur.com/gallery/dappNad

Derpy

morning

Tinkeringbell

8:58 AM

Morning!

Rob

@Mithrandir Looks great, big improvement, you're ready for the Photo of the Week Contest. I would suggest leaving out the bird Rock though. The image is plenty big enough to crop to the upper right.

Mithrandir

@Rob ?

Tinkeringbell

9:19 AM

@Mithrandir one of your photo's apparently needs cropping :P

the rest is American feedback XD

Derpy

@Tinkeringbell just to know.... have you too received a SECOND mail from DHL?

Tinkeringbell

@Derpy Yes .

You're getting two watches too? :D

Derpy

with two different Waybill numbers?

Tinkeringbell

Yes. We're not the only ones that have had those either, I've heard more people about that.

And neither is picked up by DHL yet.

Mithrandir

same here ^

Magisch

9:21 AM

@Tinkeringbell I only got one

Derpy

ok, anyone can view the mail now?

near the end - the "Reference: #####" number.. is the same in both letters?

Mithrandir

looks like it, yeah

Derpy

ok, so different Waybill and same "Shipment reference" code

... I think the shipment reference may be the same for everyone...

but the two Waybill codes are odd, I think they may have indeed sent two watches.

Magisch

enjoy your double watch

These things are supposedly not very cheap either

Mithrandir

may be worth asking @JNat to look into it...

Tinkeringbell

9:31 AM

Yep, same reference number for both.

Rob

@Tinkeringbell cropping due to the rock in the foreground. A crap crop.

Derpy

9:48 AM

@Mithrandir I think that at this point:

a) they have already bought them, so it is not like they have much to do with them.

b) shipment already started, so probably they wouldn't be able to recover any "delivery fee"

basically, I think that there is little they can gain by trying to fix the error.

@Magisch I assume they will be in the same price range as the cheese board, maybe a little more. I try to not look into prices to much since it is still a free gift.

Rob

One watch for each arm. When someone tries the 'spill your drink' trick (ask you for the time, while you are holding a drink) you can fool them by looking at the other watch jealous.

Mithrandir

I've always wanted two watches

now I get three? :P

Derpy

That said, out of curiosity I was trying to determine the brand of the watch.

Mithrandir

...Timex?

Magisch

The best part about the watch is the SE logo anyways

Derpy

9:54 AM

The originally posted picture matches a watch model made by a company called "Watch Creations"

Rob

Onega, worth a buck and a half.

Derpy

but the mail we got from DHL does indeed mention Timex

problem is: I wasn't able to find any watch that matches the one on the picture on Timex site (nor on Printex one)

Rob

10:08 AM

Derpy

@Rob I know - the sparkshop link doesn't seem to work right now. As I said, I found that watch on another site but apparently it is made by "Watch Creations"

the one they are sending is made by Timex

Tinkeringbell

Is it an appropriately late hour of morning to start screaming yet?

Mithrandir

it's after noon, go ahead

Tinkeringbell

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Okay. That's better.

Mithrandir

Can I freak out as well? :P

Tinkeringbell

10:21 AM

Sure.

Shouldn't be just one person that can freak out here ;)

Mithrandir

sooo EEEEEEKKKKKK

lots. and lots. of doctor appointments

Tinkeringbell

That's a pretty tiny cute freak out....

Mithrandir

and several tests coming up

Tinkeringbell

That doesn't sound good.

Mithrandir

Army prep...

at least I didn't pass out this morning when they took blood

Tinkeringbell

10:23 AM

You're going? Or still trying to get that leave?

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell don't know yet, trying to get medical records in order before I go to the summons

Tinkeringbell

Well, I kinda hope you don't have to go (unless you changed your mind and want to ;) )

Mithrandir

...and they still think I'm coming to the summons this Thursday, but I can't, and they messed me up by giving me a date in May and then moving it to February

so I thought I had time to get e.g. med stuff in order but...

Tinkeringbell

That's .. bureaucracy?

Or an attempt to deliberately have you show up without med stuff in order (malice?)

Mithrandir

incompetence

Tinkeringbell

10:25 AM

Oh good. At least things aren't corrupt then :/

Mithrandir

It's run by a bunch of 18 year olds.

So yeah that's my freak out :P

Tinkeringbell

:/

Personal rant: any army that expects 16 year olds to join and 18 year olds to run stuff has lost their mind.

My freak out is about Nespresso....

4 emails, 10 skype messages (despite the politest 'f-off, I'm on another team now, if you need me here's scrum master e-mail, ask them to make time')....

Mithrandir

Well, it's only starting the process now, I don't start like training till I'm 18. But I have to start figuring out e.g. placement now.

Tinkeringbell

and then he had the bright idea of showing up at my desk.

I must admit I fell in love with my scrum master just now. She's soooo good at saying 'not her job anymore!' :P

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell sounds like he has issues

Tinkeringbell

10:28 AM

@Mithrandir Just a few :P

He's now sort of Skype rubberducking at me? I'm getting messages like 'found it', 'I'm starting to understand what went wrong + lengthy explanations'.... I'm going to mute him for now.

@Mithrandir So the process takes about 2 years to complete?

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell Year and a half

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell :D

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch You find that funny? :P

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I find it funny how you're handling it

I would have filed a HR complaint 1/3 of the way through

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I'll leave that to the scrum master, she's... not that far of from actually doing that, I guess.

Magisch

10:35 AM

sounds like nespresso is a fun guy with lots of positive qualities and a strong performer

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell sounds almost normal. Anyone older has... Ideas....

Mithrandir

@Mithrandir (And then actual service is two years eight months for men, two years for women.)

ArtOfCode

that's an oddly specific period of time

Tinkeringbell

I guess I'm being a bit too harsh on him. He's a good developer, makes his deadlines, knows an amazing amount about the language we're working in... He's just used to doing stuff his own way and not good at working in teams (or working with multiple teams on the same thing).

@JourneymanGeek Ah, that might be it :P

Journeyman Geek

Ours was 2 and half years unless you were unfit

Tinkeringbell

10:39 AM

@ArtOfCode two years sounds quite reasonable... Where do those 8 months come from?

Journeyman Geek

Then they tacked on a month

It's 2 years now

Magisch

I dont find mandatory millitary service reasonable

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Mine wasn't there at all, until someone decided to complain about gender equality. Now there technically is a draft for women aged 17-45 as well, meaning that if some ... nasty person ... decides to start a war I'll have to go to war as well.

forest

There are plenty of ways of evading various drafts.

Just get diagnosed as a sociopath and you have a good excuse. :P

Mithrandir

*snort*

Magisch

10:43 AM

i'm 90% sure I'd be declared unfit for combat anyways due to my eyes and mental issues

Mithrandir

@Magisch When you consider that there's been a threat of war for a while, and several wars in recent history, and constant military action, then it kinda makes sense. I just... don't like it

forest

I think my anti-government mentality would make my people worry I'd defect lol

Tinkeringbell

I guess I'd be unfit as well, bad eyes and overweight :P

Mithrandir

y'all's armies are picky

Tinkeringbell

I don't know if they're that picky.

forest

10:45 AM

@Mithrandir It seems fine to me if it's about defending your country, but not about fighting in someone else's war for political or economic reasons.

Tinkeringbell

Perhaps I could be educated to do cyberwar?

forest

No such thing.

As much as politicians love to use the term...

ArtOfCode

oh yes there is

red teaming on international scale

forest

There's electronic warfare, which is a little different.

Tinkeringbell

I guess I'd have to go with 'gewetensbezwaren'... Whatever that entails (basically you're saying war/army goes against your personal ethics)

Mithrandir

10:46 AM

I mean... my country has hacked into nuclear centers and shut them down

forest

That's what EW means in military terminology.

@Mithrandir Yeah that's not warfare.

Mithrandir

it's avoiding war

forest

They just like using the term when it's nothing more than "offensive operations".

Eh, not really.

It can make war even more likely to start in the future.

Mithrandir

well, it's taking out a weapon before they have a chance to use it

ArtOfCode

Um... yeah, certainly can be warfare. Crack a nuclear power plant, disable the safety systems at the wrong time, boom.

forest

10:47 AM

That's called first-strike and is not a good way to avoid war.

@ArtOfCode No power plant I know of would be vulnerable to that (unless you have physical access). They have extremely strict controls (air gapping etc).

Now, destroying hydroelectric plants, on the other hand...

And those can cause some pretty serious damage.

ArtOfCode

okay, s/nuclear plant/other reasonable target/

Mithrandir

actually, several people I know have told me I should try to get into the "cyber" units in the military

forest

But even then, it's the kind of thing you'd do in the middle of a war.

gross

ArtOfCode

@forest ...i.e. warfare

forest

@ArtOfCode Sure but calling it cyberwar implies that it's a war done in cyberspace.

ArtOfCode

10:49 AM

Not really. Could just as easily mean it's a war conducted via cyberattacks

forest

That's like saying SAM warfare.

A SAM can be used in war, but there's no such thing as SAM warfare.

Mithrandir

exhibit 2: intelligence collection

forest

C4ISTAR

(C4ISTAREW if you like alphabet soup)

ArtOfCode

exhibit 3: intelligence war (cough Russian bots cough)

forest

Yeah those are only called "war" for the shock value.

None of those are acts of war recognized by any country.

Be glad they aren't, or we'd be in WW3.

Mithrandir

10:51 AM

better that WW3 take place through Twitter over nuclear bombs

ArtOfCode

that's... not what I was implying

forest

Until someone decides to use an EMP to disable Twitter. :P

ArtOfCode

doesn't have to be a Recognised Act Of War, D.S.M., Esq., for it to be (a) in popular use, or (b) a form of warfare

forest

Also, the term "cyber" is cancer.

Except in "cybernetics".

ArtOfCode

Speaking of DSMs, I found an old WW1/2 DSM while I was clearing stuff up this week

forest

10:53 AM

E.g. it's not cybersecurity, it's information security. It's not cyberwarfare, it's electronic warfare. The term cyber should have never survived past the 90s.

ArtOfCode

No idea whose it was, but interesting to find it

forest

We really need to be fixing security up though, not breaking it.

Mithrandir

*isn't sure what DSM means*

forest

Tax money should go to finding and fixing bugs, not finding and exploiting bugs.

user310756

latest brumby addition. She was trapped from the wild

forest

10:55 AM

When crappy governments keep exploiting bugs, "the bad guys" exploit them too.

And the consequences are not always great.

(Yes, those are children's GPS "smart" watches that were hacked)

ArtOfCode

@Mithrandir Distinguished Service Medal

Journeyman Geek

@forest ... Actually

forest

They just need blind obedience, and sociopathy is not conducive to that.

Journeyman Geek

@forest I think folks here are tired of the wheelchair story.

Besides we need sociopaths.

@forest one if the critical things about conscription is it needs to be insanely hard to skip

forest

Depends on the country.

But at least the good thing about mandatory conscription is that the army will include plenty of people who won't think twice about stabbing their own country in the back.

That's something I can totally get behind, at least in war.

I think I turn from a libertarian to an anarchist when I'm high.

I just noticed that.

Shadow Wizard

11:22 AM

@SupaMegaDuckyMomodaWaffle Yes, you're hereby granted permission to use my Wand. Use it wisely!

:D

forest

> It makes you annoyed too and becomes haircut completely impossible.

It's like they didn't even try to make good use of spintax.

Shadow Wizard

plz-delete YouTube one last vote needed meta.stackexchange.com/questions/324461/… @Bart @rene @Glorfindel

@Mithrandir think you did, or something similar. :)

plz-delete batch of two mimicry, Linux @rene @Bart

Martin

Are there some other sites where community bulletin went missing, or is this specific only for MathOverflow? I have just posted a bug report on MathOverflow Meta. I tried a few other sites - but I did not notice a site where it is missing.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Looks like the dog(s) got to it first :P

Shadow Wizard

11:45 AM

@Tinkeringbell he usually does, after I ping rene and Bart. Maybe he's actually a shared sock of both? ;)

Tinkeringbell

@Martin I don't know... I can't see it on MO, but I also don't have an account there (would that matter?)... it looks fine on the few other sites I visit sometimes.

Martin

I think that CB is shown only to users who are logged in. At least when I try some site where I can still see it, after I display it as an anonymous user (in incognito mode) it is no longer shown.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, seems I was logged out there and on SO for mysterious reasons.

Perhaps it's not there if there are no upcoming events and nothing featured on MSE/MO meta and no hot meta posts?

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell no, appears like it's missing on most sites. Should start but report on MSE.

Martin

The question On convexity tags was definitely shown there yesterday and I think it is eligible.

It is tagged (discussion), it is less than two weeks old and it has score well above 3.

@ShadowWizard As Tinkeringbell says, CB is not shown when there are no items to display. This might be case for some small sites. (But AFAICT it is not the case here.)

Journeyman Geek

11:50 AM

@ShadowWizard I hang out in chat ;p

Hence no need to ping

@Martin I wonder if it's intentional. MO is a little unusual

Martin

I have tried a few sites where there are some eligible items on meta - Mathematics, Physics, TeX - and I saw the community bulletin there.

@JourneymanGeek It's possible, but unlikely. It used to be displayed until now. But yes, MO definitely is unusual.

CB is not displayed, for example, on Sports SE, but the corresponding meta has no recent questions with score at least three.

Derpy

@forest should I remember you about the "smart talking doll" incident from some time ago? A doll with an app that could be used to have the doll speak custom lines? And the app was totally insecure and without any form of authentication?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Which ones?

Shadow Wizard

12:08 PM

@JourneymanGeek I know, hence not pinging you to delete. ;)

@Derpy wasn't it all a scam/malware to let people watch kids through those "toys"?

@Tinkeringbell well, checked arqade which isn't a very small site.

Derpy

@ShadowWizard wasn't the first case either. Most similar apps had similar problems.

that said, since we are talking about security....

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Hmmm... Arqade doesn't have any eligble meta posts.

The one that does score over 3 is marked status-completed.

Derpy

Derpy's Monday Quiz

Go to feedback.azure.com and try to sign in. What is missing?

Tinkeringbell

@Martin Seems it's back now? At least on my side.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy I consider such apps viruses in advance and never ever consider to install them.

@Tinkeringbell yeah, movies.SE does have, so no bug, just rare case of no recent blog post and no featured MSE question.

Tinkeringbell

12:17 PM

@ShadowWizard It was gone on MO for a while. I couldn't see it either. It does show up now though

Martin

@Tinkeringbell I see it too. So probably my bug report was a bit premature... (That seems more likely that somebody corrected it so fast.)

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell with meta posts?

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Yep, three of em

Martin

I have included screenshots both at the time of the post and now (with CB displayed) here: Why is community bulletin no longer shown on MathOverflow?

In any case, thanks to all for checking whether it is a problem also elsewhere.

Tinkeringbell

Looks good. I'm curious to know what it was, let us know if you get an answer?

Derpy

12:30 PM

seems no one wants to look at my little quiz. It a pity, it was pretty funny.

Tinkeringbell

I'm doing my own quiz right now ;)

New codebase = a lot of finding new stuff.

Derpy

12:47 PM

@Tinkeringbell Sadly, @forest already left... The quiz is indeed related to security.

anyone else? @ShadowWizard?

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy hmm?

reply is to codebase, no idea what it's about.

Derpy

@ShadowWizard want to try to guess this one?

33 mins ago, by Derpy

Go to https://feedback.azure.com/ and try to sign in. What is missing?

Shadow Wizard

oh, your quiz. But what quiz?

Derpy

now I will have to leave a feedback about the feedback forum.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy missing login button?

And missing attribution to SO, they copied the design and UI.

Derpy

12:51 PM

@ShadowWizard Nope, look better. If you press sign in they ask for a mail...

Shadow Wizard

oh, found the login link! So tiny.

@Derpy correct

then a name

Derpy

@ShadowWizard notice nothing weird about the register / log-in procedure?

@ShadowWizard and then?

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy no password. But it's totally expected from Microsoft.

I won't even bother to tell them.

Anyone can log in as anyone else. So?

Derpy

@ShadowWizard SO?????

Shadow Wizard

they're the masters of security breaches, did you expect them to have proper security?? lol

Derpy

12:54 PM

@ShadowWizard to be fair, that is not Microsoft doing.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy the azure.com domain was stolen from them?

So they should report to police.

Whatever is under a domain they own is 100% their responsibility.

Derpy

@ShadowWizard I mean that they outsourced the site to a company called UserVoice Inc

Which sells the infrastructure.

UserVoice apparently are the creators of the "product" used by Microsoft

Shadow Wizard

hehe

Derpy

A "feedback forum" that also provides analytic reports and so on.

but it does not provide passwords or e-mail verification by default.

Shadow Wizard

So they chose a crap company... probably because they're cheap.

Still.... didn't expect any better from Microsoft. :)

Derpy

12:57 PM

(notice: you can still enable a password - it is hidden in the setting page)

so in a way it is even worse.

Not just "no password", which could be an error made by some junior developer

it is actually a case of "OPTIONAL password, none by default" which means it is an actual design choice

Shadow Wizard

No, at this point it looks like someone in Microsoft said "OK, let's have a feedback forum" and someone else said "I know this site, they can make it for cheap price" and that was it. And of course nobody bothered to review the product while or after it was done. lol

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