Tavern on the Meta

Journeyman Geek

3:00 PM

0_0

Shadow Wizard

@forest is this a codename for something? ;)

fbueckert

The cynic in me says the changes coming down the pipe will be the easy things that help engage new users, while the tools to help curators properly curate content will be coming in, "6-8 weeks".

Journeyman Geek

@fbueckert well not really much that would do either in profiles

profiles really is a tool for power users an gawkers

Shadow Wizard

@fbueckert And the other part in you?

fbueckert

@ShadowWizard The rest of me is debating packing it in.

Shadow Wizard

3:02 PM

Lol

New idea: we should beg for bugs to be fixed. :D

Journeyman Geek

@fbueckert honestly - I think the 'smart' stratergy here would be to port the old prodiles to the new one

@ShadowWizard if Q&A is the core product, more likely it would happen

fbueckert

@JourneymanGeek This isn't really related to the profiles thing @forest was talking about.

It was more just a general comment about my entire exhaustion about the whole, "welcoming" debacle.

Journeyman Geek

@fbueckert actually I think that its a symptom of a lot of things.

and the welcoming debacle was just the summer of love again

fbueckert

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, which is why I'm exhausted about it. I feel SE is moving further and further away from the whole reason I joined.

Journeyman Geek

@fbueckert which is?

fbueckert

3:12 PM

Content quality.

All this focus on users means feelings are now more important than maintaining standards.

Bart

Not really. You just don't get to be an ass about the standards

Journeyman Geek

ah

tbh, content quality in the old days was... sometimes cringeworthy.

I actually think the big issue with how we deal with new users is that we really have no idea how to get them up to speed with the unusual way SE operates

fbueckert

@Bart There are tons of ways to maintain standards without being an ass. At no point am I advocating for being rude, mean, or an idiot to other users.

Journeyman Geek

and we're big enough that people will find here with no clue.

Bart

@fbueckert I'm not saying you are. Just that it's not some zero-sum feelings vs standards balance.

rene

3:15 PM

@Bart I would star that would it not be that I don't want ass to show up on our starboard ...

Bart

@rene save your stars for an orphan who needs it most this time of year.

Feeds

Magisch has added ArtOfCode to the list of this room's owners.

Magisch

Please welcome @ArtOfCode to the team of Room owners everyone :D

14

Bart

Talk about declining standards ... :p Welcome Art!

ArtOfCode

I am honoured to have this privilege bestowed upon me, etc etc... and my first action as ~~evil dictator~~ room owner will be to unpin my own message :)

Was thinking I should poke someone about that earlier :)

Magisch

3:17 PM

efficient work-offloading

evil laughter

Tinkeringbell

@ArtOfCode Always feel free to poke. Just expect to be poked even harder in return.

ArtOfCode

poke poke

Tinkeringbell

POKE POKE

Magisch

parrot beaks are pointy

Journeyman Geek

just not with a pointy stick

Tinkeringbell

3:20 PM

@Magisch They're good for cracking tough nuts ;)

ArtOfCode

@Tinkeringbell are you calling me a nut?

Tinkeringbell

@ArtOfCode everyone in here is nuts

ArtOfCode

point

fbueckert

@Tinkeringbell It makes life more interesting.

Tinkeringbell

It does. You won't hear me complaining :)

fbueckert

3:22 PM

Could you imagine how boring life would be if everyone was perfectly rational and logical?

Magisch

except about coworkers

:p

fbueckert

Vulcans. Booooooring.

Tinkeringbell

@fbueckert Ehhh. There would be even more arguments etc.

@Magisch Just 1 :P

I'm really glad there's not 2 of those running around!

Shadow Wizard

3:46 PM

@JourneymanGeek summer of love with sharper teeth.

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard I don't think there's particularly any teeth

Shadow Wizard

Suspending unwelcoming users isn't considered using teeth?

Journeyman Geek

We've always done that

As far as MSE goes, the one difference is we're ostensibly neutral.

Shadow Wizard

Hmm...

Journeyman Geek

There may come a point though where we'll have to yell at an employee, and that will be.. interesting

and yes, I do actually think that's something we're expected to do if an employee is not nice.

Shadow Wizard

3:49 PM

Yell at employee?? Plz elaborate! :)

Journeyman Geek

lol

Shadow Wizard

You mean Shog and the language he sometime using?

Journeyman Geek

Lemme quote Tim

> Sometimes, we as employees need to disengage, or dial it back, or whatever euphemism you want to use for calm the heck down and think about the goals and the people helping you meet them.

Shadow Wizard

@fbueckert sure. Did you watch Matrix?

Journeyman Geek

> Our appointed moderators will have full agency to correct any chain of correspondence that appears to be going off the rails, no matter who was originally driving the train

@ShadowWizard if you see it, flag it. ;p

this is a critical thing here.

and something a lot of people don't get it seems - that we're actually expected to go "Hey dude, not cool"

Cause I think the CM's are fairly familiar with my tendancy to politely bite ankles as needed.

Shadow Wizard

3:54 PM

You mean when employee is being rude/unfriendly?

Journeyman Geek

yup

IDK what's the internal or external process

we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

oh in general

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

cv-pls duplicate, both targets: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/320155/… (@Shadow)

fbueckert

@ShadowWizard Did you see Agent Smith?

It was perfectly logical and rational from the computer's perspective.

Then you introduce humanity, and all hell breaks loose.

Shadow Wizard

4:11 PM

@fbueckert heh. Well I meant the scene where Smith says they made a perfect world for the humans (in their VR) and it resulted in mass suicides all over. :)

fbueckert

@ShadowWizard Yeah, that was the point. We don't want utopia.

Utopia is boring.

Shadow Wizard

People were just bored to death, literally.

fbueckert

The human condition is to struggle, to strive, the drive to meet and overcome challenges.

Without that...the human body just shuts down. See retired workaholics; they don't know what to do with themselves after retirement, and the body knows it.

Journeyman Geek

my dad just watches cricket the whole day and refuses to do anything he can avoid ;p

Shadow Wizard

Play poker with friends all day long? ;)

Journeyman Geek

4:17 PM

that involves actual socialisation

fbueckert

As long as you have something you're passionate about. The body literally needs something to live for.

Bart

Cricket is cool though :D Well, if they're not test matches at least.

(blasphemy, I know)

Journeyman Geek

he watches those too

Bart

@JourneymanGeek I don't have the patience for those.

Journeyman Geek

They can test your patience yes

Journeyman Geek

6:01 PM

Tonight is fun

/me has no idea what's happening elsewhere and is getting contradictory instructions from different teams...

Alex

I love contradictions.

ArtOfCode

No you don't

:P

Journeyman Geek

also the instructions we were given for the new servers don't work

Alex

Well I'm the top asker and the top answerer in contradiction.

judaism.stackexchange.com/tags/contradiction/topusers

Journeyman Geek

so I totally got a service account password over whatsapp at 2am

oh well, at least I'm awake

Feeds

6:19 PM

Both arXiv and archive.org are invaluable projects which, if they didn't exist, we would dismiss as obviously ridiculous and unworkable.

Journeyman Geek

6:42 PM

heh, Might be true of SE too ;p

(see alt text)

rene

7:07 PM

→ 25 messages moved to Chimney

SmokeDetector

7:43 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body (97): where can i get complete guidance of search engine optimization for my online shop? by 7 solution on superuser.com

Martin

7:55 PM

@Catija Seeing that you are currently online, would you mind to chime in the MathOverflow chatroom if you happen to have a bit of time?

Shog9

TIL there's a MathOverflow chatroom

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title (96): When will the drug events api (api.fda.gov/drug/event.json) be updated with 2018 Q2 data by Rajdip Ghosh on opendata.SE

Magisch

8:16 PM

Don't go there, you'll overflow it!

rene

If I go there it will be a math overflower ...

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 0_0

Makes sense though

Shog9

8:32 PM

I mean, they have lots of chatrooms - discussing posts via chat seems to have been one of the best features of moving to SE 2.0

but somehow I didn't realize they had just... a general-purpose room

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 but every site needs one

Shog9

eh...

I could argue otherwise if I had the energy

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 well it's a social space, helps me engage the community and get things that don't quite fit into normal qa done

user312109

9:03 PM

Has the dates ever change on when the Winter Bash begins and ends? Will the Winter bash ever be extended?

Kevin B

🔮

user312109

@Shog9 who is the software designer and where can I submit my ideas?

user312109

for SE?

ArtOfCode

Journeyman Geek

@Muze Might want to read meta about that

user312109

9:09 PM

@JourneymanGeek I used all my questions and screwed up my account beyond repair.

Journeyman Geek

@Muze honestly? Totally your fault

user312109

Yes for not reading and knowing the system.

Journeyman Geek

"not reading"

that's actually a great start

user312109

all the rules

Journeyman Geek

I don't know all the rules

user312109

9:10 PM

does and don't

Journeyman Geek

I bet shog dosen't know all the rules.

user312109

i didn't know enough to avoid long suspensions.

user312109

totally my fault. maybe if I was smarter then

Journeyman Geek

@Muze Well, what have you learnt from that?

user312109

but I would love to see the hats last longer

Journeyman Geek

9:12 PM

If the lesson is "the system is unfair"... IDK

ah! But half the fun is in the rush

user312109

maybe not unfair just strict

Journeyman Geek

Well, there's less strict alternatives

the strictness is one of the things that helps differenciate us from say... Yahoo answers or quora

user312109

I like the people here and the format nine the less. I 'll live with it

Journeyman Geek

excellent

user312109

still would pay a donation then wait a year. that could be changed. What is a day on SE worth?

user312109

9:16 PM

Who do I got to bribe?

user312109

what your paypal account....kidding

Journeyman Geek

Actually I can't do anything about a question or answer ban

Shog9

55

Q: What does constructive criticism of a design change look like?

Last week we rolled out the new network theme to several sites. Some of these sites had beautiful designs previously and now have a less striking look. Unsurprisingly, the response to these changes has been somewhat very negative. Even before Joe posted our master plan back in March, this has bee...

user312109

@JourneymanGeek Somebody got the power to do it. I did learn to space my posts out, some grammar, not to have extra accounts, up vote to many times (10) on 1 person a day even if they have all good questions, don't roll back moderator edits, edit to much, create work for others, ask dumb questions that gets locked in, stay professional and others. These are reasons I got suspended and for the most part will not repeat but the damage is already done so.. I wait.

Shog9

hey, it's Muze!

You're famous!

well... infamous

user312109

9:27 PM

how?

Shog9

almost the same, really

I donno. I just see your name come up a lot.

user312109

yes that is good

user312109

bad muze

Shog9

You got like... 25 "moderator contacts user" records in your history. That's pretty outstanding

Journeyman Geek

@Muze see, all those things...

user312109

9:29 PM

I'm not trying to

Journeyman Geek

over multiple sites I hear.

Shog9

Anyway, read that post I linked to from Jon. TONS of good advice there, if you're thinking about proposing a design change

user312109

yes longer hat time

Journeyman Geek

@Muze on the contrary. You need to keep trying (to be better)

what's the case you would make for longer hat time? How does it benefit people?

user312109

I look forward to it all year.

Shog9

9:32 PM

oh! There's another post I should link to

hang on

Journeyman Geek

and? That's what hats mean to you. You gotta pitch your ideas to a bigger audience.

You gotta sell the idea.

Shog9

193

A: Can we talk about the voting culture here on Meta?

So I've been kinda chewing on this since your email, because... It's one of those simple questions that defies a simple answer. You're not the only person to raise this concern, of course: several respected users, moderators and even co-workers have expressed dismay upon seeing reasonable questio...

@Muze There. Read that too ^

Journeyman Geek

Now, I'd make the point that "the time limited nature of hats makes them more valuble"

Shog9

The author has a cool hat, so you know he's not full of it

Journeyman Geek

specially since its a "cheap" (sorry!) way to get your core users active during a traditionally quiet period

user312109

9:33 PM

They are like medals for doing something right and make me feel good when I see a new one.

Shog9

YEAH!

That's the goal!

Journeyman Geek

But that's what badges are for

Shog9

Plus, of course, giving Brian an excuse to sneak a recursive CTE into the code

Journeyman Geek

hides embarassingly big pile of reversal badges

Shog9

@JourneymanGeek hey, I'd totally add a Red Barron badge if I could

Journeyman Geek

9:34 PM

@Shog9 CTE?

@Shog9 in theory... you could!

user312109

they make me happy to but not like the hats.

Shog9

@JourneymanGeek @Taryn's most favorite thing

Red Baron

one "r"

geez

get it together, Shog

Journeyman Geek

;p

Shog9

If you can't remember how to spell your favorite pizza, what will become of you?

wait, no... My favorite pizza is Tombstone. All is well.

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 you end up eating cheap imitation pizza made by a sketchy dude in a back alley who speaks nothing but Pyongyang accented korean.

... which would likely be an interesting experience come to think of it...

Tinkeringbell

9:38 PM

@JourneymanGeek We went to exactly such a restaurant this evening :P

Journeyman Geek

0_0

clearly the lack of sleep gives me clairvoyance.

Tinkeringbell

sketchy dudes, not really a back alley but in the middle of nowhere, and most of the staff spoke heavily accented Dutch :P Oh, and the food was cheap and some of it was clearly imitation :P

Didn't try the pizza though :P

Journeyman Geek

close enough

I had a mental image of something like the noodle seller from blade runner

just making pizza

Tinkeringbell

I can make a mental image of a noodle seller, but I don't know blade runner :P

Journeyman Geek

Catija

9:43 PM

@Shog9 Are you really not qualifying that with "frozen"?

Shog9

that scene always makes me hungry

Tinkeringbell

Shog9

@Catija you gotta rank 'em together

+10 points for good cheese, +20 points for price, +100 points for not having to drive somewhere, drunk, to obtain...

Catija

No delivery options?

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 heh, I used to eat a lot of frozen pizza when I was in the UK

heated it first of course

Shog9

9:45 PM

+30 for reminding you that your life is finite and all you do here will be forgotten, right on the box

Journeyman Geek

my mom would probably be horrified.

Catija

I haven't eaten a frozen pizza in... at least 10 years.

Journeyman Geek

and damn it. I kinda want pizza now.

Catija

Possibly 20.

Journeyman Geek

heh, about 10

Shog9

9:46 PM

Good ol' "As for man, his days are like grass" pizza. Now with new "Brick oven style", for those who intend to be cremated!

Journeyman Geek

there's this german brand, Dr Oetkers or something...

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Dr. Oetker, to the ER please :P

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I always thought the name was odd ;p

or the time I made pizza on a prata base...

which was strange but good

Shog9

@Catija ah, but that's "30 minutes or less", while it only takes 20 to cook a frozen one

Journeyman Geek

Tinkeringbell

9:48 PM

@JourneymanGeek There's this brilliant (Dutch) comedy sketch using that line :). But yeah, the name is funny. No-one knows how to pronounce it either over here :P

Catija

Shog9

probably best to assume it rhymes with "doctor"

Journeyman Geek

(apparently if you stick prata in an oven, its basically puff pastry)

@Catija ... why did the whole center fall out?

Catija

Did you ever eat the other cauliflower crust pizza?

@JourneymanGeek No pan underneath, it seems.

user312109

because he forgot the rock

Journeyman Geek

9:50 PM

@Catija still shouldn't fall off that neatly...

Shog9

@Catija no; my breaker tripped and half the stuff in my freezer defrosted. Probably for the best.

Tinkeringbell

@Shog9 Actually, it's either oo as in 'boo' or uh, as far as I'm aware.

Catija

HAHAHA.

Shog9

@Tinkeringbell how do you pronounce "boo"

Journeyman Geek

@Catija you can't eat all your mistakes... ;p

Tinkeringbell

9:51 PM

@Shog9 Boe? :P

Journeyman Geek

(like the time my mom made okra pancakes, that tasted like soap...)

Catija

@JourneymanGeek Dunno. It's a pretty well-known photo... Looks like it was a fresh crust, not a par-cooked one.

Tinkeringbell

Like a ghost would. BOO!

Shog9

Bookter Oetker

Catija

But it's not the only example:

Shog9

9:52 PM

Hope you got one of those fancy self-cleaning ovens...

Catija

When I was a kid, I thought "self cleaning" meant that it was also something like a dish washer... it was a sad day when I found out that it just got really, really hot.

Journeyman Geek

there's nothing fancy about that ;p

@Catija adulthood is full of disappointment

Catija

So true.

user312109

Tinkeringbell

@Catija Sad? Those days are the best days. The kitchen gets really warm too :)

Catija

9:54 PM

I've never actually used the self-cleaning function on an oven...

Journeyman Geek

like how I found out the cool keypads in total recall's villanous minions were... common calculators.

Shog9

hey, dishwashers aren't all that great. They can take care of minor soil, but burnt-on goo is generally beyond them

Journeyman Geek

@Catija in theory if it gets really hot... you could make pizza in it

Shog9

But given sufficient heat and time... Almost anything can be cleaned.

The self-cleaning oven takes the long view

Tinkeringbell

@Shog9 We have a brand of dishwasher that does handle even burnt-on goo. It's called 'dad'

Shog9

9:56 PM

heh

Catija

@Shog9 Yeah, but when your mental image of a diswasher is the same as of a car wash - particularly when you're a kid and riding through a car wash is fun... it's not about how good it is at its job... it's about the fun factor. Dish Washers are a water park for your plates.

Shog9

Reminds me of my wife's expression when she found me cleaning glassware with a blowtorch

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I've never met an indian with a dishwasher.

Catija

:/

Tinkeringbell

Did anyone ever stick a go-pro in a dishwasher yet?

Journeyman Geek

9:57 PM

@Shog9 0_0

@Tinkeringbell internet says yes

Shog9

Still the best use for your dishwasher:

125

Q: Is it possible to cook a whole fish in a dishwasher?

I heard that there is a way to cook a whole fish in a dishwasher - any techniques, tips??

equipment fish sous-vide

Catija

@Tinkeringbell I'm sure someone has. They have marketing videos with dishwashers that shows you what it looks like on the inside.

@Shog9 My dad loves to talk about this... as far as I'm aware, he's never actually done it, though.

Tinkeringbell

@Catija I've always thought those were fake...

Journeyman Geek

@Shog9 I think Alton did that, on the mythbusters too

I'd be surprised if Miss Yeah didn't try

Catija

@Tinkeringbell Next you're going to tell me Santa isn't real, too...

either?

Shog9

9:58 PM

Y'all a bunch of skeptics. Next you're gonna suggest that those oil ads aren't actually made by putting a camera into a running internal combustion engine

Tinkeringbell

@Catija Of course there's not Santa. Only Sinterklaas! :P

Journeyman Geek

they also have dishwashers with plastic doors...

Catija

@Shog9 OMG... did you see Tim's tweet from a couple weeks ago... how they make food look pretty in ads... the pancake syrup is motor oil!

Shog9

@Catija heh, yeah I've seen that one

I'm not... Entirely convinced that's true as a regular thing

but I'm sure it's been done

some of the other stuff, like spacers between pancakes - yeah, that's plausible

Journeyman Geek