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12:28 AM
@Journey I understand that there's a cultural gap. But that doesn't help much for keeping quality of questions at Stack Exchange.
Q: Will bugs blocking the ability to perform a few basic operations during definition phase on some browsers be fixed?

Douglas DaseecoMy team has noticed a few configurations for which the site definition process was frustrated because of what appears to be browser specific bugs. By switching from one browser/computer combination to another, the confusing behavior disappeared. I don't know where bug reports should go, but the...

12:45 AM
@πάνταῥεῖ More that there's a particular class of "Indian programmer" who is like this
but they're more likely to need actual help and exhibit behavioural bugs like "gimme the codes" and "urgent"
There's a few other gross generalisations I could but have chosen not to have made
@πάνταῥεῖ you can't fix a bug without understanding its causes can you? ;p
You need to learn to read and understand the error messages
I've dealt with indian programmers professionally a lot in the past. Their questions are most likely failing to focus the real topic, and they're always more eager to be seen in a good light than really learning what's wrong with their code. Their behaviors calling me sir and being devote aren't useful mostly. They simply haven't been taught how to deal with constructive criticism.
@πάνταῥεῖ so, how do you fix that? ;)
I am showing my cold shoulder, and leave them struggling.
So, mark as "wontfix" ? ;)
I have no idea how to fix the indian education system or their culture of behaviors. That's probably beyond my capabilities.
12:54 AM
On the other hand
there's tons of pretty talented folks who ended up in software engineering instead of, IDK...
engineering, or medicine.
and they're actually pretty good
There are some who get it I know ...
That turbo c++ is still used for teaching c++ at indian schools is plain ridiculous and a sign of how broken the education system is.
there's a kid on SU who keeps complaining about it ;)
There will always be good minded people to evolve beyond these systems, that's not a matter of ethnics.
Well, no
@JourneymanGeek Probably rightful
12:59 AM
TBH the best thing that can happen is the indian model of software engineering and IT collapses.
But that's entirely nothing to do with the IT folks
I don't want to sound all marxist - but they way they do things is inherently exploitative, and happens to fit how western business wants to do things
Sounding marxist is all fine for me, tho I am an anarchist, I don't like ideologies that much.
Copy and paste programming is a well known antipattern, and never should have been adopted that broadly in the indian IT business.
@πάνταῥεῖ well, its also the fact that they're high pressure, high output evironments with an eminently replaceable workforce
You get the output out, or you lose your job and your place in society
And well
there's no way to fix that
so wontfix
(Actually the funnier bug in indian culture as I see it is how your education level is automatically seen to show how smart you are)
@πάνταῥεῖ more like there's no simple solution but wait for the tide to turn
unless the indian society undergoes a severe change
1:07 AM
Well, its changing
Indian society has this wierd ability to absorb ideas from everywhere... and yet be itself.
but sometimes they're the wrong ideas ;)
But I'm seeing proper geeky types from the half generation after mine.
I am holding thumbs up. There are many talented girls (!!!) and guys that deserve a better treat.
(and ugh, the "But our business model of undercutting everyone even if we can't deliver" sorts too, who are the heart of the problem)
1:25 AM
#Supercon shenanigans. @strangepartscom hacking on his "badge". Turned out the exploded iPhone jig he brought had some flex cables that needed a bit of rework.
that's all manners of cool.
Also an exploded iphone
1:59 AM
Keep talking and nobody explodes...
also... morning?
2:50 AM
just caught up the convo on Indian English and Indian programmers...
thxgod we don't see Singlish on SE...
3:06 AM
@Somewhat Indian english is a pretty weird thing. They're prone to all kind of misconceptions.
3:17 AM
Like using "doubt" as "question"? i.e. "I have a doubt"
Q: Is it correct to say "double eight" or "triple nine" when spelling a number?

user193655I hear from indian colleagues my TeamViewer password is six, nine, double-eight (to say 6988) or my telephonenumber is three, five, four, triple-nine, six, double-eight, two, one (to say 3549996882) My queestion is: using double N or Triple M is it correct? I would ...

1 hour later…
4:21 AM
@MarkAmery I disagree. I don't think we should avoid using a term just because it is used unironically by a programming culture that gets a lot of shit.
Anymore than using "teh" as a joke is ageist to kids who use text speak.
@Somewhat oi. My England veddy powderful ok?
@Somewhat I wouldn't be surprised if it was a literal translation
Code switching is hard
@JourneymanGeek ok lar
sd f
4:55 AM
@SmokeDetector Why the duplicates?
5:34 AM
@Alex Possible that there were two SmokeDetector instances running. But it appears to be fixed now.
@SonictheAnonymousHedgehog Ah, okay. Thanks for the explanation.
2 hours later…
7:18 AM
@Alex indeed, it happens quite often. To know for sure just run the above command and you'll see two replies with different location.
survey meta.stackexchange.com/questions/317805/… @rene @JourneymanGeek @TravisJ (huh!! @Bart is no longer pingable!!!)
Where's the Chicken?
7:41 AM
@ShadowWizard google.nl/…
I love how that only shows cooked chicken first :P
@Tinkeringbell that's what chickens exist for... to be cooked. :D
Some are cuddly :)
@Somewhat woohoo! Blank square! :D
Some are just there to lay eggs
7:43 AM
@Tinkeringbell and then be cooked when they stop laying eggs. o_O
chickens are the descendants of mighty raptors
they can be vicious
@ShadowWizard I think they're just destroyed.
Knowing the food industry..
Pretty sure they don't sell old laying hens, they usually get made into cattle feed
Poor chickens. Wonder when they'll rebel...
some people keep chickens as house pets
7:45 AM
Is this even allowed?? lol
Sure, why not?
Our backyard neighbour has chickens and roosters. The roosters are annoying.
@Tinkeringbell Diseases, for start....
@ShadowWizard not really more prone to that then other house pets
Oh, bird flu isn't that big a thing here ;)
chicken hug is cool. When the chickens are used to humans they can be surprisingly cuddly
7:47 AM
Dunno but can't really see a chicken being a pet, running freely in the house etc. Maybe have some chickens in a small pen outside, for personal eggs consumption. :)
Two squares!
A university friend of mine really had some small chickens in her living room.
Don't know if she still has them though.
@Magisch there's a video of one attacking a rat
@Tinkeringbell well when they're small they are pure cuteness. But so are tigers.... :P
7:59 AM
@ShadowWizard small as in small breed, not as in baby chickens ;)
And taking a pet just for the short time it's in "cute mode" then throwing away when the pet becomes.. not cute... is more cruel than not taking one to begin with.
@Tinkeringbell oh lol
@ShadowWizard Oh, totally agreed on that one ;)
Chickens (females) or roosters (males) though?
@ShadowWizard agreed
Guess roosters are harder to keep since they make more noise, no?
8:01 AM
@ShadowWizard females. She had one that accidentally turned out to be a rooster and had to get rid of it because it made too much noise.
@Tinkeringbell haha.... lol! "accidentally turned out to be a rooster".... rofl.
Well, she bought him as being a chicken ;)
How else should that be phrased? :P
Don't roosters have that thing on their head?? Let's see translation... crest?
When the gender identification is on the head, it's so much easier.... :P
my apartment isn't very far from a farm, so I get to hear morning roosters
I find the sound pleasant personally
@ShadowWizard That's ... not the way this works :P
8:04 AM
@Magisch but if it will be inside your house, in the next room... every morning... I doubt you'll still find it pleasant. ;)
@Tinkeringbell enlighten me! :D
@ShadowWizard eh. There's a circular saw going at all times except sunday starting at 6am downstairs
@Magisch ouch
It's a company that among other things cuts wood to measure for construction projects
@Magisch Ehh. I don't mind if it's just morning. The one from our neighbour has the annoying habit of crowing hours on end, at any time of day.
8:05 AM
@Tinkeringbell huh. Thanks!
@Magisch shouldn't company that work with wood get a dedicated place for what, i.e. workshop, in some industrial zone? And not work from inside a building apartment? Pretty sure here we have laws against it.
@ShadowWizard We do too, and in theory I could complain, but in practice this apartment is dirt cheap precisely because of it
(and if not, well, we should have rules! :))
and also nicely furnished, repairs are done quickly, etc
I pay a bit less then about half what I would be paying for a comparable apartment anywhere else in town
@Magisch but if you can have them kicked out, why not? Unless your own apartment belong to that company?
it does
8:08 AM
it's the company building where the owners used to also live but now they're renting it out
So you're kind of, well, indirectly helping them break the law. :/
sending @Magi to jail :D
I don't care, the circular saw isn't that loud
Well, it could be worse. ;)
Also, I get up at 6.30 sharp so I only get half an hour of it.
8:10 AM
How you even reached such a place? surely not the ordinary ad in the media...
my father is friends with one of the owners
Yeah, makes more sense. :)
Honestly as long as work is nearby I'll probably never move from here
It's 10 minutes by bicycle to work, and 5 minutes to the grocery store.
But I don't really get it. You have a decent job, with probably a decent salary. You don't have other expenses as far as I can tell. How come you can't afford yourself a better apartment? @Magisch
I can afford myself a better apartment
I just don't want to
8:12 AM
Living in Israel in really really expensive, but in other places it should be more sane.
I'll take a bit of noise for saving almost 300€ a month
@Magisch but what will you do with those 300€?
I mean... you said yourself more than once that you won't have any children. Why else should we save money for? :)
@ShadowWizard Retirement ;)
@ShadowWizard There's a lot of things you can do with money
oh! Buy new games! :D
8:16 AM
Personally I'm 90% unbothered by noise. If I couldn't use the money at all it would still be more efficient to just setup a 300€ a month direct wire to the nearest foodbank rather then paying that much more to avoid 30 minutes of noise in the morning
Wut? Buy Diablo Immortal?
@Magisch You're too good. :)
@Somewhat huh? He became immortal? :(
Diablo... killed him so many times...
Trivia: when was the first Diablo released?
real talk though saving money is always worth it
someone in the family or myself might have a giant unavoidable expense, someone might lose their job and take some time to find a new one
tru dat
@ShadowWizard before I was born, I think
8:20 AM
@Somewhat are you below 22?!
saving money vs investing money?
@ShadowWizard huh, apparently Diablo is not that old?
@Somewhat Always saving ...
investing is too much like gambling.
Not in solid channels.
I'm bad at investing
8:22 AM
well~~~~~~~ I guess time-deposit is considered as "saving" instead of "investing"...
@AndrasDeak ?
@Derpy maybe he thought the previous message was the sound made by horse when galloping? And you're, well, a pony. ;)
@Somewhat yup. 0 interest rate. what you put is what you get.
You can same way stash it below the floor. ;)
@ShadowWizard That's a good solution, though at some point you need to pay taxes (over here)... or find a way to spend the money that doesn't raise suspicion ;)
When investing, you have a very good chance to make it +20% more after several years.
@ShadowWizard There's also a very real chance you'll lose everything.
8:27 AM
@Tinkeringbell police check floors in houses regularly? ;)
evidently, my Bitcoin creep-to-currency colleagues...
@Tinkeringbell so don't put all the eggs in one bag... put some in the investment bag, and some in the floor. :D
@ShadowWizard Nope, but e.g. I'm saving up to buy an apartment. I can either hide the money, and when I buy the apartment people will ask me where I got the money from :P OR I say I have the money saved, but then I'll need to pay taxes ;)
@ShadowWizard Nah.
I don't like losing one bag either.
@Tinkeringbell ohh..... interesting.
@Magisch "can"? You are talking about an animal that basically goes "crazy" at the sight of blood. They actually once made red-filter eyeglasses for chicken with the only purpose to stop them from fighting each other.
No, not joking either.
Chicken eyeglasses, also known as chickens specs, chicken goggles, generically as pick guards and under other names, were small eyeglasses made for chickens intended to prevent feather pecking and cannibalism. They differ from blinders as they allowed the bird to see forward whereas blinders do not. One variety used rose-colored lenses as the coloring was thought to prevent a chicken wearing them from recognizing blood on other chickens which may increase the tendency for abnormal injurious behavior. They were mass-produced and sold throughout the United States as early as the beginning of the...
8:29 AM
huh, so that's why there's... chicken fight gambling...
gives the idiom of a "chicken fight" a whole new meaning eh
I think that anyone who had a pen with chickens at any point can confirm they can be pretty aggressive to each other.
Then, afaik, there are some breeds that are supposedly more docile than others.
there'S some chickens that are really cuddly and docile
at the local petting zoo there are some where you can just go up to them and hug them
apparently the one I was talking about is...
A cockfight is a blood sport between two cocks, or gamecocks, held in a ring called a cockpit. The history of raising fowl for fighting goes back 6,000 years. The first documented use of the word gamecock, denoting use of the cock as to a "game", a sport, pastime or entertainment, was recorded in 1634, after the term "cock of the game" used by George Wilson, in the earliest known book on the sport of cockfighting in The Commendation of Cocks and Cock Fighting in 1607. But it was during Magellan's voyage of discovery of the Philippines in 1521 when modern cockfighting was first witnessed and...
(to onebox or not to onebox? that is the question...)
8:37 AM
Too late to ask now. ;)
Why not? It's not the prettiest part of history I guess, but you won't hear me complaining ;)
@Magisch silkies!
The Silkie (sometimes spelled Silky) is a breed of chicken named for its atypically fluffy plumage, which is said to feel like silk and satin. The breed has several other unusual qualities, such as black skin and bones, blue earlobes, and five toes on each foot, whereas most chickens only have four. They are often exhibited in poultry shows, and appear in various colors. In addition to their distinctive physical characteristics, Silkies are well known for their calm, friendly temperament. It is among the most docile of poultry. Hens are also exceptionally broody, and care for young well. Though...
interesting use of the word "sport" there.
wouldn't call that thing a sport, even if they had the word "blood" in front of it
@JourneymanGeek optimal pet chicken
It's the polydactyl cat of birds
8:43 AM
Megaman PVP might be a sport...
entertainment; fun.
"it was considered great sport to catch him out"
a source of amusement or entertainment.
"I do not wish to show myself the sport of a man like Wildeve"
Right. I think my router is ready
Will swap it in tomorrow...
I have work tonight
And a 5 day break to test things
I have work now... but I'm currently the most unmotivated person around, I guess...
@JourneymanGeek But it was ready. Testing sounds like there's still a possibility of breaking it?
8:54 AM
@Tinkeringbell why unmotivated? :(
@ShadowWizard Boring work, lots of office politics, boring team.
@Tinkeringbell always
Lots of bugs, horrible environments.
But also performance testing
I'm also currently in unproductive mode...
8:56 AM
I have a full Linux box as a router
So I can do stuff like benchmarks
Maybe I feel better after standup. I'll be back soon ;)
please take a seat...
@Somewhat I have a seat and two blankets ;)
9:23 AM
Nope. Still not feeling productive
Perhaps you like creative writing?
Nah. I just need to get some tea. I'm going to get tea :)
!!/tea Tinkeringbell
@Somewhat brews a cup of passionfruit tea for @Tinkeringbell
Blegh, passionfruit. SmokeDetector still has a lot to learn!
9:31 AM
@ShadowWizard is gone already and yes, we lost @bart again ... I hope he is okay ...
stealing @Tinker's coffee machine to create some chaos in her workplace
Tell them they must come here for a coffee. :D
Then we'll make them treat you better! :P
@rene well, there's one thing I can do...
@Bart yes! We miss you @Bart!
9:51 AM
@ShadowWizard I'm working from home. You just pissed off my mom!
@ShadowWizard It's not like they're mistreating me ;) They're just boring people :P
@Tinkeringbell whoops! Tell her I'm deeply sorry! sending flowers and a new coffee machine to @Tinker's mom :D
@Tinkeringbell maybe because you're not with them! Try getting closer, get to know them... ;)
oh. Yes, that reminds me I was supposed to do something
@ShadowWizard Nah. They're just... We have lunch together but that's it. I visited my old co-workers last Friday, and then we have coffee and lunch breaks, some small talk and banter. This team, everybody is stressing out over everything, even if it's not their fault stuff isn't working.
Can't you switch back to the old team then?
10:00 AM
@ShadowWizard Ehh. No. Cause that team isn't working for the current customer ;)
So, there were three teams.
One that I started in, that worked from the companies offices, which was the best.
The second I started working for in May this year.
And I'm now on my third, for budgetary reasons, until the end of the year.
This third team is ... I don't know if I'm supposed to start causing trouble and trying to fix things or just go with the flow until I can go back to team nr. 2
Last Friday I got to spend some time with team 1, and it made me realise what I'm missing out on in team 3.
@Tinkeringbell Well, only 2 months left until end of year. I'd say best (for the long range) eat the frog and let things flow around you. Causing trouble is surely not the way, unless of course things are really bad.
I still don't really get how such a company works, with people switching teams so often, but meh... I'm not familiar with enough companies to really know. :)
@ShadowWizard Think a really, really big company with lots of customers. They detach you to a team, that team works for a customer :) I spent 2,5 years on my first team, so I'm not 'switching often'. :P
You can take the risk of "becoming sick" for many days, which will save you interaction with the team, but guess they're not stupid (the bosses) and it might not go well.
Here in Israel the train drivers do it often when they want more money. (they become "sick" and don't show to work until they get what they demand.)
I started working for customer nr. 2 in May. Now I'm still working for customer nr. 2, but in a third team. This because within the customers organisation, each team gets a budget and when that runs out, it runs out :P. But the customer wanted me to stay working for them, because if they send me back to my company, the company will find me third customer...
10:09 AM
Since we have only one single trains company, they always get what they want.
@ShadowWizard Heh. I'm not that kind of person, I don't call in sick because I don't like stuff. I call the manager to fix it ;)
@Tinkeringbell in ideal world, that might work.... ;)
@Tinkeringbell oh, so the customer likes you! That's good, I assume. :D
My manager isn't a bad guy. He can fix a lot, but this team is just ... blegh. He's aware, and has made black-on-white agreements with the company I'm currently working for that this arrangement is only up to January.
@ShadowWizard Meh. I'm programming in some obscure language. I guess they just take what they can get :P
@Tinkeringbell COBOL?
@ShadowWizard Almost :P Magik
10:12 AM
Magik sounds just like @Magisch! :P
Oct 23 at 13:39, by Somewhat
Magisch working on Magik.
> Magik is a fictional superheroine appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics, most often in relation to the X-Men. She first appeared in the comic book Giant-Size X-Men #1. Magik is the younger sister of the Russian X-Men member Colossus
@Tinkeringbell ^
Awesome programming language! :D
yeah, that's why she's in danger if asking about it on SO...
Oct 23 at 13:33, by Tinkeringbell
Problem is, Magik is a proprietary language. I don't know how many details I can put on SO without getting into some kind of 'copyright violation' territory.
@Somewhat sounds like that scandal @forest was so curious about yesterday.
@ShadowWizard It's not too bad, if everything else is working ;) But this team has a.) no automated tests, b.) differences in the development, test, acceptation AND production environments so it never works, c.) no automated deployments/builds, d.)no knowledge of how to use git, e.)no knowledge of how to work agile.
10:15 AM
Better avoid it in advance, yup.
@Tinkeringbell so nothing works?! lol
@ShadowWizard Yeah, basically.
There were only 2 chat messages mentioning "Magik" before Tinkeringbell started hyping it all over here
I'm not hyping it. People keep asking me about it!
I mean, we probably should also learn that language...
I wouldn't recommend it. Only reason I agreed on learning it was that eventually I'd go back to Java, IDE's and automated builds ;)
They're hopefully going to replace the entire Magik thing with Java.
In team nr. 2 I already did some work on that, combining Magik and Java was fun :)
10:25 AM
@Somewhat one is a typo.... o_O ;)
@Tinkeringbell So Magik will be... gone? Extinct?
Maybe, one day :)
Can't you relocate to work directly with the customer instead of being with "your" team? Maybe there are nicer people there? @Tink
@ShadowWizard Nope, that's not ... the customer is another big company ;)
@Tinkeringbell so? Even better.. work there as a contactor. No?
I worked as contractor for a while before being hired to a big company. Though guess that was different from your situation...
@ShadowWizard Nah, that requires a lot of work on my part ;) Now, I can just show up, do my thing and go home. If I work as an independent contractor, I have to arrange things like insurances, administration, and retirement funds ;)
10:32 AM
@Tinkeringbell so from obscure terrible thing to common terrible thing?
Is that so strange? :P
@Tinkeringbell well, not freelance/independent, still as employee of your current big company, but just relocated into the other company office. No such option?
@ShadowWizard ? So still working for my current big company, but at the office of company 2? I do that three days a week already ;)
Or.... another option.... take that customer and some others, and start your own big company to serve them! @Tink :P
I'm not made for managing companies.
10:37 AM
Hire someone. Or @Somewhat. :D
@Tinkeringbell oh, didn't know that!
Thought you go only to your company office with the "boring" people.
@ShadowWizard Those days are the worst... :P
@ShadowWizard No, the boring people are at the customer ;)
the company office has the good people :P
And friday afternoon drinks ;)
that moment when things clear up
hey! I see rainbow!
I approve of Magik
10:40 AM
Send them official letter saying they can keep using the name. ;)
@ShadowWizard No chance of rainbows here today. Not enough sun, too much clouds ;)
@Tinkeringbell here too, kind of. After a stormy night.
I've had this username for about 15 years
I think I got my name for longer. Let's see.... 2001... 17 years.
I win! :D
hmm... wait. Used it in chat too, before joining forums, so maybe even 1999.
MSN chat.... good old times. :D
I still have my really old childish username in places too, just not SE ;)
10:43 AM
@Tinkeringbell "Pretty Bird"? ;)
My main username is only used on Arqade...
AnTimo, "short form" of my name...
@ShadowWizard Nope ;)
Hello @antimo!
(and also anti travel nausea medicine in my country)
@Tinkeringbell "Chirping Happy Bird"?
10:45 AM
"Bird aka the Word"
not childish ^
Nothing bird related :P And I'm not going to tell, I don't want that part of my life traced here ;)
Maybe @Andras knows!
@Tinkeringbell lol... thinking of ways to force @Tink to reveal her name
@ShadowWizard do not
No tea for you until you tell! @Tink
10:47 AM
@ShadowWizard Heh. You can't stop me :P
Like I'm going to listen to you :P
asking @Tinker's boss to extend the contract with team #3 until 2030 unless she tells us her name :P
@Magisch Oh, he can try. I won't tell ;)
@ShadowWizard I can circumvent that too :P
@ShadowWizard her name or her username?
The only non-employee on SE to know my real name is @ArtOfCode
And that was only incidental
10:49 AM
huh. So it's deleted by now, I assume?
@Somewhat this name:
6 mins ago, by Tinkeringbell
I still have my really old childish username in places too, just not SE ;)
not "stroopwafel"...
Nope, not stroopwafel :P I was at least smarter than that!
Well soon my own daughter will start choosing usernames, maybe it will give me ideas. :D
I don't think so :P
"Extra Syrup Stroopwafel"
10:54 AM
yay! I managed to flag an actual spam post on mse :P
Because it evaded Smokey, initially. ;)
Probably that website isn't blacklisted yet.
"Waffle-less stroopwafel"
And no direct links in the post, so...
hmm.. how to add to blacklist?
watchlist first
@ShadowWizard Ask in charcoal hq?
10:58 AM
well, good enough I guess. :D
> 59 helpful flags
Nice work, @Tink! :D
I have over 1500 on IPS I think? :P
As a mod guess you don't/can't flag anymore, so it's impressive. ;)
I can still flag. They're just handled immediately ;)
> 219 posts edited
> 1,552 helpful flags
> 1,831 votes cast
11:03 AM
I just tried... 1553 helpful flags now :)
Yup. No cache!
No wonder profile pages are sometimes slow... SE appears to rely on cache less.
I really should edit more I guess. But commenting and stuff already takes a lot of time, and on IPS editing something feels weird a lot of the times.
Like putting words into someones mouth, or asking guided questions.
@Tinkeringbell you can always edit typos, surely there are lots of those all around. :)
@ShadowWizard Yeah, that's true, and most of the time that's exactly what I do ;)
I think I went on a spell-check spree to get that silver edit badge :P
11:23 AM
@ShadowWizard So that you know, there are criteria for blacklisting. Basically, the normal process is to first !!/watch something (i.e. add it to the watchlist) for a time. If it turns out to be a good indicator for spam (e.g. it sees 5 true positives and no false positives), then it's reasonable to blacklist it.
11:45 AM
@Derpy what shadow said
@ShadowWizard know what?!
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