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12:10 AM
1:00 AM
@Blue also, remember that moderators can't reply to flags on comments. If you want the chance of a mod reply, raise a custom flag on a post.
3 hours later…
4:12 AM
I know that if there's several links suggested as dupes before closure, they all go in the dupe box. What about after closure? Is there any way to add to the dupe box once it is closed? Specifically, a gold badger hammer-closed with a link, and I believe another link is a better dupe - what would be an appropriate procedure?
I don't remember the details off hand but I know it's a mod privilege. I think God badges can do it too.
No formal process. I suggest leaving a comment?
(It actually even happened to me - as I hammer-close, someone else will suggest a better link, and I'd like to edit it to the new one)
I did leave a comment. Should I also flag, or it's not worth it?
4:27 AM
don't flag for that, it's something other people with dupe hammers can handle
comment is good enough till someone edits it in
4:57 AM
@KevinB That's what I'm asking - as a hammer-wielder, how do I add a dupe link to the dupe box post-closure?
there's an edit button on the dupe banner
^^^^^^ zat
1 hour later…
6:13 AM
13 messages moved to Chimney
@KevinB yup, it was added by Oded, think one of his last (visible) contributions to SE as a developer.... wonder what he's up to these days. :)
@AndrasDeak only with many followers.... like I keep saying, if just ordinary tweeter user (like everyone here) will try, result will be the same as posting it on MSE.
To have quick effect, one must have power.
6:37 AM
@Quill was here??? Hello!
@balpha hey, there appears to be a new cross network bug which the dev team might have missed, so since it's kind of urgent (I guess) pinging you. Can you please take a look?
Q: Related Questions are not being added to new questions anymore, network wide

kirsten gQuestions all around the network do not get Related Questions anymore, for several hours. Examples from around the network: Stack Overflow Arqade Meta Stack Exchange Can this please be fixed?

ooh, that would suck
Related Questions is a pretty important feature.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer, potentially bad keyword in username (81): What is "smartphone" in Esperanto? by zahraoffice3 on esperanto.SE
@ShadowWizard I'll have you know I have 4 followers! :p
6:43 AM
@Magisch I reached 100... still not enough. ;)
(and I nuked my account)
@JNat heavy cross site spammer for your delicate hunting... thanks! :)
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, pattern-matching website in answer (172): How do virtual credit cards work? by alexphilips on money.SE
6:58 AM
20K video meta.stackexchange.com/questions/317192/… (needs 1 more) /cc @Bart @ShadowWizard @JourneymanGeek @Glorfindel
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad keyword in username, blacklisted website in body, +8 more (882): goldencondor.org/enduro-stack-testo-boost/ by Enduro Stack Testo Boost on civicrm.SE
20k ES meta.stackexchange.com/questions/317196/elasticsearch-template (needs 1 more) /cc @Bart @ShadowWizard @JourneymanGeek @Glorfindel
What should be done if an user has a link to a pirated software download site in its avatar?
@Derpy You intregue me, and I'm interested in being part of your posse.
20K english meta.stackexchange.com/questions/317195/… (needs 1 more) /cc @ShadowWizard @Bart @JourneymanGeek @Glorfindel
7:03 AM
oh god
Its one of those days
@Derpy as image you mean? Or if you download their avatar you get pirated software?
@JourneymanGeek no it's just bunch of old off topic questions that went below the radar due to less than -8 causing them to be hidden from homepage.
It's not a new wave of off topicness. ;)
@rene image only
7:06 AM
@Derpy nothing, IMO. It's their right to have anything they want as long as it's not offensive/abusive.
@ShadowWizard that would mean that an avatar can advertise illegal download of software, animation, tv series /movies etc and be fine?
@Derpy I would go "meh" but if you feel strong about it either try a flag or ask on meta.
You could argue it is an dubious act, sure.
I mean: it could be an accident but you want to rule out it has a purpose
@JourneymanGeek sorry, no need for public shaming here. I just noticed an user with a small link in its avatar to what I think is an online manga scans repository. Nothing really to act on since it is very small (to the point that unless you look at the bigger version of the avatar you wouldn't probably notice it), but made me wonder what should be done if the link was more prominent
@Magisch Want to add a fifth? :P
Also... GOOD MORNING! I'm awake :D
7:17 AM
@Derpy yes
If it would call people to do stuff like murder, rape, etc then it would not be fine.
Only my view... feel free to flag something and report, I just won't do it personally.
@ShadowWizard replied
who can we blame?
@Magisch It's Stephen Rauch's fault.
7:36 AM
Poor Mr. Rauch...
@balpha thanks!
7:52 AM
Morning everyone, how do we handle suggested edits on spam? The edit in question removes the spam link, I have flagged the post as spam but do I approve/reject the edit also?
People shouldn't be editing spam
Have a link to the spam by any chance?
@Tinkeringbell GOOD MORNING!
Also check if the spam is registered with Smokey
A: Convert UBB Forum Database to MyBB

SapirMyBB has a merge system, but it currently doesn't support UBB. You can try to learn how to develop a merge module by yourself and get helped by the community while you develop it. It isn't easy but MyBB worth that :) If don't have the time / knowledge to develop a module, you may contact SkinC...

7:53 AM
That... doesn't look like spam.
@WhatsThePoint I don't see the suggested edit ;)
@Mithrandir Well, I'd consider it borderline/I want a human in the loop
The user who posted also has rep on a couple other sites.
And it's from seven years ago.
@Mithrandir hence wanting a person in the loop
I wouldn't flag it
Looks like spam to me, as its promoting a paid service without disclosure
7:55 AM
I see no reason to assume affiliation
@WhatsThePoint not it's not spam. The edit is vandalizing though.
and the user is clearly made of meat, though whether its the processed type or not is clearly in question
I don't agree @ShadowWizard. The section is irrelevant.
Removing valid part of answer is plain vandalizm and should be rejected as such, exactly like edits adding spam.
7:57 AM
@Bart I'd personally disagree with that being a suggested edit
@Bart maybe, but not spam. I didn't bother to read in detail.
And I disagree with your face! (I'm taking the adult route here ... right ...)
Spam flagging goes too far for me, but the edit would be fine for me.
@WhatsThePoint if you can prove that user (Sapir) works for the site they linked to (Skin City Designs) then it might be spam indeed. Otherwise.... it's just an answer stating there is a paid service doing something. This is legit.
@Bart well. YOU DON'T HAVE A FACE.
I read the edit as trying to remove objectionable content (without removing all of SO from HNQ)
Now, that's an idea
8:01 AM
@JohnDvorak so you're saying the edit doesn't go far enough?
No twitter so no drama
@JourneymanGeek rude! Flagged!
SO isn't exactly known for HQ content lately, so let's drop it from HNQ, and replace the "flagship" with something that doesn't just flop in the wind.
Find a question with "male" in title and you can ask to do it. ;)
(no matter what's the actual content of course.)
@ShadowWizard that seems easier on SU than SO
8:02 AM
and if male/female connectors are too rare, we could always dig up that case where someone tried to fork a GIT repository onto a USB dongle and got fired for it.
@JohnDvorak That was pretty pathethic imo
iirc everyone got fired there too. Those who complained and later on the complainer
Q: Testing If Person Is Male or Female - If Not Male, Can I Assume It's Female?

SackiI would like to hear from you experts what I should do as a programmer in the following case. Person is a class that has properties like name, birthday, etc, and one of which is gender that takes either "m" for male or "f" for female. Person class has instance method #male? and #female? to test ...

look for master/slave ;)
8:05 AM
Because, you know, who ever would think of copying files onto a device specifically made to be copied files onto?
@Bart yes! This is something that can cause SO to be kicked out HNQ if tweeted by the correct person.
"Hey!!! See what those men are doing in their programming site!1!!"
Heck, I have even forked a repository into the very directory it was already in (under a different name)
@JohnDvorak what does that refer to?
forking a repository = creating a clone of a repository and taking ownership of that clone
@ShadowWizard that's unlikely
8:09 AM
@ShadowWizard you know... This suggestion shouldn't just be a joke.
and I think an important thing here is helping SO corp not jump thirty feet every time someone with enough followers tweet.
USB dongle = small portable device connected via USB. In this case, a storage device.
@Derpy it's not... I'm afraid I'm serious. It can happen.
@Bart IIRC pycon
@JohnDvorak haha, thanks, but I got that far. I meant the specific incident.
8:10 AM
People seeing "male" or "female" in their sidebar might get into panic mode.
Unfortunately I don't remember where it was
Its a little sad
Basically everyone involved basically got their lives ruined
@ShadowWizard My point is that is shouldn't just "can". I was stating that it needs to happen, so if anyone has a way to trigger it, please do.
@JourneymanGeek "help SO corp"?? How? We can't control SE staff decisions.
And they ignore all our suggestions here and on MSE so... meh.
8:12 AM
@ShadowWizard well, control? no
Try to get through to them?
At the point we are now, the only way to learn a lesson that tree branches are dangerous is by taking a tree branch in the face I fear
Well, we can try, cause there's literally nothing else we can do
@Derpy contact twitter user with many followers, the more the better, refer them that question, and let it roll from there.
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, the 2 devs got fired and blackballed, and the complaining dev advocate got fired and also blackballed
It was a universal-lose situation
pretty sure even the convention lost substantial attendance
8:14 AM
All that said though, it doesn't mean we should never have a second look when issues are raised. If titles are awkwardly phrased leading to possibly inappropriate interpretations, by all means edit them. Or have a good talk with a community about their content, or what not.
On the other hand, how do we deal with it?
I don't think tweeting the pictures was appropriate, personally, but do you tell a total stranger "You're a terrible person" or "Hi! I overheard that or it wasn't appreciated" or.....
Those titles that caused IPS teardown didn't even deserve an edit
@JohnDvorak ah! We have ideas on how that could have been done better.
Why not just ignore the tweet? You don't have to respond to everything - and SE's most recent comment policies enforce that idea.
@JohnDvorak well, that's an option
but what if its a real problem?
8:18 AM
@JohnDvorak No SO/SE policy covers external sites or social media.
So the big, hard thing is trying to find that midpoint.
People can be rude and abusive as much as they want on Facebook, Twitter, etc.
@ShadowWizard which is why I specifically asked about that (amongst other things) on MSE
@JourneymanGeek phrasing
@AndrasDeak MIND! GUTTER! ;p
8:19 AM
By replying to extremist viewpoints you enforce the idea that they have a ground to stand on
@JohnDvorak That would mean SO needs to act as a company with a social media outreach, and have its employees hold back on individual opinions and actions through their social media accounts. No more "employee here, I'll take care of it"
@JohnDvorak one person's extremist viewpoint is another person's social justice.
@Bart that would be nice
@Bart true, but does it happen? No.
@JourneymanGeek "social justice warrior" is a swearword. Just FYI.
8:19 AM
I'd argue they have scaled to a point where that's necessary
@JohnDvorak Mind you, the people who responded don't view that as "extremist viewpoints"
@JohnDvorak In this context and in terms of self identification its appropriate.
It's a bit of a disconnect between company and people
SE users are very diverse politically. The company is overwhelmingly liberal
and I said social justice rather than SJW for good reason.
I would argue that arguing "asking how to avoid sexual advances from women is inappropriate" is inappropriate
8:20 AM
outspokenly, too.
@Magisch a lot of tech is
I got friends on both sides of the american political divide so meh ;)
You saw that with the take a stand against trump thing. The company isn't neutral politically and is left leaning even for tech companies.
@Magisch as a company? IDK, I don't personally have a problem with that
TBF nobody really likes mr. Trump
They can turn the entire site blue for all I care
8:22 AM
Please no!
This all also is a result of growth. We were all happy in the days where we knew "the family". There's Jeff and Joel and Jay and Abby and Adam and ... And of course Adam can say X because Adam's cool ... those days are gone really.
@JohnDvorak ... actually, you're right, but its not politics ;p
I continue to think that the source of dramma in the recent IPS+twitter thing wasn't the fact that someone felt that question titles were bad.
course not
@Bart actually, I feel that its also things/places that need growth haven't
8:24 AM
If you turn Stack Overflow into a political blogpost / do-my-homework / don't-mention-you're-male-women-hate-that, I willl have nowhere else to go
but we haven't heard a peep since last week, so they might plan a big response
or wait for it to blow over
@Magisch I don't know how much I can share but I don't think the latter's an option
(FTR: women don't hate it when somebody says they are male)
I wouldn't hold my breath @Magisch. The last big issue also just had Tim come forward in the end with a "We hear you, but we might do this again" response.
8:25 AM
@Magisch my dib's on the latter
@Bart I think the depth and breath of unhappiness of this is... a lot bigger
I would love to be a fly on the wall in internal staff channels. I think the annoyance with us shane expressed is shared by a lot more employees
Wow... just caught up here. Are you all still that sad/unhappy/angry?
It has more of lingering distrust to project into
8:26 AM
@Tinkeringbell Well nothing happened. Nobody fixed anything or apologized
time doesn't heal all wounds
In fact, the MSE post is now at -86
@Magisch we are a pesky little bunch
@Magisch and that's a thing.
@Tinkeringbell We've all been unhappy with some SE policies for a while now, just haven't had the opportunity to voice them.
@JohnDvorak yanno?
@Magisch something something if it weren't for you meddling kids
8:28 AM
@Magisch We've had three CM's apologizing at IPS Meta for different things. I've apologized for not telling you what I knew immediately... Sure, the whole thing blew up. But if I want to look at every side of this issue, I'm going to need to write a book, not chat messages. And there's a lot to be looked at, from all sorts of angles.
I wonder if something like this happening on EE is how SE started
Someone accused us mods of letting this happened. Turned out it was a disgruntled former mod. And well. Every time something like this happens, we tend to try to talk to folks.
@Tinkeringbell IPS is the smaller part of this controversy tbh
And a lot of the louder voices are folks not directly involved on this
@Tinkeringbell Monica's post probably still stands. No "we fucked up, sorry" (they did)
8:29 AM
and all three of these apologies are non-pologies
SU's fine and uncontroversial.
And right now... I get that everyone is upset/angry/unhappy... but it seems like everyone is just going over and over and over on a single aspect of this, just saying how mad they are... which isn't going to fix a thing.
I'd take putting IPS back on HNQ as a sign that SE wants to listen to its community
pretty sure this is gonna come up every week or multiple times a week somewhere for the next couple of months, regardless of what they end up doing about it
I'm very mad but that is just how I am.
8:31 AM
@Magisch eh, maybe
@JohnDvorak I'm in the process of writing an answer arguing that we should stay off for now.
Problem is @Tinkeringbell that a lot of issues raised, fixes suggested, etc. are not listened to, ignored, or dismissed with a hand-wavy post. So all they have left is being mad.
there isn't going to be any consequences anyways, so they can apologize every day for a year and people won't care
I don't object to IPS being off the board if that's what they want. I object to IPS being off the board because it used the word "male" in a title.
one component of a proper apology for a mistake is outlining what you have done and will do to ensure it doesn't happen again. That's what my boss always tells me anyways
8:33 AM
@Magisch I think that we've basically made that point. A lot of times this time.
But its not about this time.
@Magisch They did spring up the "hey, what should we do next" post
I mean yeah. Maybe we should all resolve to stop chiming in when it'S brought up again
all these conversations start by someone bringing it up
@Magisch that's hard
@Magisch no wall, their internal staff channels are right here on MSE chat domain. ;)
Just hack the server and you have them all. :D
and felony criminal charges
I don't like felony criminal charges
8:35 AM
Have you tried to drink directly from a waterfall?
@JohnDvorak Yes.
@rene *waters rene*
(buddhist monks don't count :P)
@Magisch Its something that folks are passionate about. if we could 'just' walk away - it would get forgotten wouldn't it?
@JourneymanGeek so? tink has a valid point
8:36 AM
@Magisch I wonder what the score would be if the assoc bonus covered downvotes
"get forgotten" is exactly what people don't want this to be.
@Magisch she does
introspecting a bit, I've been roped into one conversation or another about this every day for the whole past week now
But its still not easy. I'm just as guilty of it
Everyone is talking about it, they're all upset, but nobody is prepared to bring any consequences directly to SE about it either.
8:37 AM
With no solution or change from the company anger at the injustice is all we've got. At least me
@Magisch short of ... ragequitting there's not much we can do?
But I do start to agree that having more of these conversations doesn't push the topic forward either.
@JourneymanGeek normal users, yeah, pretty much.
I'm fine with stagnation
If like 30 mods decided to quit until it's fixed you bet we'd have a response and action a couple hours later though
8:38 AM
@Magisch Mods? eh, I can neither confirm nor deny.
@Magisch I think a lot of mods arn't aware of what happens outside their sites
pretty sure a mass mod revolt is the only thing they fear more then bad PR
@Magisch pretty sure even non normal users like Catija can have any real effect.
Ragequitting is pointless as well. Your bloody entrails will not last a second and nobody will remember your face tomorrow - not because of brain washing. It's just what human natural attention span is.
6-8 seconds ^
Can't really expect a mod to quit in protest especially with no change guaranteed
8:40 AM
OK, maybe 6-8 minutes if you catch the Charcoal team not looking your way.
@Magisch TBH, the effect on some sites with some mods would probably slightly catastrophic.
If mods quit they'll find others
But probably do no good
@Magisch no. This will only lead to permanent network wide suspension for the users responsible for the revolt (not all the 30 mods) and SE will appoint new mods.
@AndrasDeak good mods are hard though. And a lot of them won't stand
8:41 AM
If they can't, so be it. Quality is irrelevant. Public image is where it's at
But its an extreme reaction
@JohnDvorak I'm not even mad about that. Perhaps disappointed that no-one warned me about the implications of those titles out of context, and just took us out of HNQ, yes. But I'm not going to argue that out of context, those titles were perfect.
And tbh, If I really think I can't affect change, I won't quit as protest. I'll quit cause I'm sad a place I care about got ruined. We're not there yet, thankfully
And then you mention you've considered ragequitting once, a bunch of white-coat SWATs storms your home and ties you up in a soundproof room.
the mods who ragequit that I know of are still around elsewhere ;)
8:43 AM
I'm not going to quit over this either. But I've definitely been a bit pre-occupied and modding a bit less actively lately.
Perhaps I should write a blog post too ;)
A tweet
Tweet about social injustice @Tinkeringbell
@AndrasDeak tweets lack nuance
It's super-effective
and ya, this is a topic we keep rehashing :/
8:45 AM
@JohnDvorak Been there, done that XD I had bad days and used Twitter to vent
I'n willing to make 10 tweet remarks daily until something changes :D
Feminist used Tweet!
It's super effective!
StackExchange used Swift Response!
It hurt itself in confusion!
I should tweet them...
@JohnDvorak Okay... relax just a little?
8:46 AM
It was meant as a light-hearted joke
For the record, feminist isn't a swear word
ponders a suitable conversational smoke bomb
@AndrasDeak anything is a swearword if you drop something heavy enough on your foot...
it does get used dehumanisingly, which is where the problem comes from
@AndrasDeak I think I somewhere sometime long ago read a story about some guy that set up a Pi or something to tweet every minute? at their ISP if the speeds that Pi measured weren't compliant with what they were paying for XD
@Tinkeringbell PROBABLY HAD
8:47 AM
@JohnDvorak Hmmm. Over here, calling someone a feminist is nowadays more of an insult than a compliment ;)
I guess doppelgreener expressed it well, it's used to dehumanise (demonize :P) people :)
Is the rest of my joke PC though?
@JohnDvorak Oh sure, you're good ;)
Thanks :)
@Tinkeringbell both
I'm a feminist and I used tweet but it had no effect :(
8:49 AM
@JohnDvorak too soon man, too soon
In D&D, if a bard insults you, it physically hurts - and you can even die from it.
quaffs water
In other words, D&D adds injury to insults
words actually do have real potential for hurt
8:51 AM
that was good
I've never played D&D. But I've seen all the funny posts about it on Imgur and that one is great too @JohnDvorak
@Tinkeringbell I did! The real one with paper, pencil, and solid (non virtual) cubes. :D
I even created new brand of monsters!
@ShadowWizard Heh. Why doesn't that surprise me :P
@ShadowWizard ... cubes?
It's called a D6
some simplistic variants as Ludo use it in place of the more iconic D20
Those colors exactly... oh wait.. not exactly. but close enough... they had lots of colors. :D
(D&D is played with a isohedral dice)
@Tinkeringbell because I'm a geek? ;)
@ShadowWizard Making monsters suits your character :P
And your profile pic shows two that you made to? :P
8:56 AM
@Tinkeringbell no no no... as a DM.... :D
I do not cheat!
Isohedral = face-transitive. A cube is isohedral. Icosahedral = 20-sided. Did you mean Icosahedral?
@Tinkeringbell burn
@Tinkeringbell haha lol... :D
ah oops
I got outpedanted.
@Mithrandir New rule! No burning OR accelerating the parrot :P
8:57 AM
actually they wouldn't know that either
@JourneymanGeek AND YOUR DOG
I may have also seen a trigonal pyramid die, a D5. That one isn't isohedral.
@JohnDvorak Ico what? Dunno never bothered to look for actual words... it was always "4 sided cube", "20 sided cube" etc. ;)
You are right though, that the surest way to guarantee fair rolls is to make every face the same
@Mithrandir he probably dosen't know either
8:58 AM
never underestimate what your dog knows
I asked him He gave me a funny look and went back to sleep
@Tinkeringbell What about transporting the parrot?
or freezing the parrot
Or poking with a sharp stick?

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