The idiom goes "don't let the door hit you on your way out", not "don't let you hit the door on your way out", but otherwise, good answer :) — Magisch48 mins ago
Your silence in the face of bad behavior is harming your relationship with the volunteers and community members who make your sites work. @StackExchange @JayHanlon @spolsky
https://medium.com/@cellio/dear-stack-overflow-we-need-to-talk-13bf3f90204f
Damn... What @Monica wrote is... Perfect. Excellent. Really sad nobody from SE is going to respond or do any of what requested there and Monica will likely quit as result, with many other good users following.
Talking about thresholds... My own isn't so high, if I would have been part of this don't think my response was so moderate. I just ranted a bit here... Oh and still am.
@JourneymanGeek sure, read. But act? Hard to believe.
I don't particularly think I can add more to what Monica's said about what went wrong, and how its hurting the community. Things could have gone better. I don't really see people getting any happier about it.
I'd like to ask for a few things going forward.
Firstly - that a community team memb...
Yup they hear only those with loudest shouting. The silent majority is ignored and hammered. Maybe if enough like Monica will shout back... Something will change?
I've just read a bunch of the tweets, some of them also mentioned in Monica's post. Seems to me that the particular twitter user is an outright terrible person causing significant damage to SE.
And Shane Madden threatening to remove moderators like that, what the actual fuck? Maybe they're the one who should be "removed".
I mean it's not a good thing that all the CMs are swamped beyond compare and yet unless you know where to look to the normal user it looks like the cm team barely does anything
Every major issue that finally gets some sort of response, seemingly from one tweet, has been all over meta. It is scattered though. Almost every CM has chimed in somewhere, to some degree on most of these issues. However, getting a cohesive map of the responses is rather impossible given the current structure.
Why did SE suddenly decide to respond to "not constructive" complaints from a non-user within 40 minutes, while dismissing Masked Man's (and others') criticism for years despite him being a fairly regular user on at least one site with valuable contributions? Remember, what goes around comes around. You moderators are equally responsible for this situation getting out of hand. You kept defending SE's stupid decisions in the name of "constructive", leading to a belief that they can do whatever they want and mods will defend them. You mods were supposed to be checks and balances to prevent it. — Kuri_Kame1 hour ago
@JourneymanGeek I didn't get how ranting on Twitter about a site that you don't use, then insulting people trying to have a respectful dialogue to address the issue would help either. But that clearly helped get the change done in 40 minutes, so why wouldn't yelling directly at SE help? It is certainly worth a shot.
All that I want to hear is for SE to accept that they made a mistake and they will stop doing so. Site moderators saying "they're only human" on their behalf doesn't quite get there.
Look, everyone understands that nobody is correct all the time. But as long as you are sincerely trying to do the right thing, even if you screw up badly, people will take it in stride. Or at least, most reasonable people will
What happened here was, "Oh crap, someone with a verified Twitter profile and a bazillion followers is ranting about us on Twitter. Gotta drop everything else and fix this first. Let all our volunteers who spent years building our brand go to hell, they don't affect our revenue, who cares about them?" That is not acceptable.
I don't really have any reason to fight with you any more than I have a reason to fight with another customer at a supermarket because of poor customer service.
Anyway, with a site like SE having a certain reputation (no pun intended), it is reasonable to expect that they would treat their users fairly (or at least pretend to do so).
If they can admit that they will run the site in this fashion, where window shoppers throwing stones at the supermarket from outside will be attended to on high priority, while paying customers who have been shopping there for ages will be ignored, then I guess people can choose to be window shoppers instead of paying customers.
@JourneymanGeek The actual reason why SE goes so well is people do a lot of their work for free. They don't need to test their changes before release because ... you know, people will raise problems on meta. People will enforce their site rules and prevent garbage from spreading in the comments or answers ... Stuff like that.
Once people stop doing those things and the company has to do all of those things in-house, it is a matter of 6 to 8 weeks...
@JourneymanGeek You know, I never really found this Twitter to be much useful. But now I'm considering creating an account there, and getting some thousand followers, so that I can get things done on SE with an angry tweet and obnoxious behaviour rather than a well considered "constructive" meta post.
The thing is, if someone understands only German, you can get things done faster if you tell them in German. If they don't know English, then writing a "constructive" request in English isn't going to get anything done.
Now, SE has made it clear that "ranting on Twitter" is their German, while "posting on meta" is their English, and as it turns out, I'm actually quite good at their German, so why am I even trying to tell them in English? :P
@JourneymanGeek The thing is, I know enough about mod tools (of course), and I could have made it such that it is not at all obvious. But that's not how I do things. I don't do things dishonestly, unlike SE.
I don't demand that people should agree with my approach. I just expect that people should be sincere in what they say and do. Things like suspending users for flagging an all caps shouting by looking up the database, while also claiming that they have a new CoC against exactly that kind of shouting is just not good in my book.
Long story short, don't be a hypocrite. If you are going to be abrasive, boorish or otherwise obnoxious, that's perfectly fine with me, even if you are attacking me all the time. ('You' is not referring to Journeyman.) But don't pretend to be a saint while doing so.
Anyway, it was nice catching up with you. I will probably be gone from the site for good for a long time now. I had decided to quit the site for good about 6 to 8 weeks ago, and stayed out of all the drama since then.
But this drama was too tempting and I couldn't resist the opportunity to twist the knife and rub some salt into their wounds. I would certainly have a huge celebration when the company crashing down one day (which will happen in a few years for sure), but I won't be actively pushing them over the cliff. I have better things to do with my time.
My Tavern visits seem to have a pattern lately. Every time I join, I seem to get in at the tail-end of some outrage or drama I've missed. Then again, that seems to be a global thing these days. Everyone is permanently outraged about something, which in turn sees others outraged about the outrage. It's tiring.
Oh, no need to apologize @JourneymanGeek. It seems to be the way things go for quite some time now. I'm starting to think I'm just kind of done with the site/network myself. Which is a shame when I recall wanting to step up to mod elections only 2-3 years or so ago "if only I had the time". It's just not enjoyable anymore for me. Or not as enjoyable as it used to be.
Let's see @JourneymanGeek. Plenty of open questions out there right now waiting for a response. But I fear it won't be much more than "We're discussing this internally. We should communicate better next time. We can't promise the end-result will be different because we feel strongly about this, but we hear you" and everything remains as it was.
@JourneymanGeek Honestly, the thing that crossed my mind most this weekend is that 'more welcoming to new users, women, minorities'... shouldn't come at the expense of 'welcoming to who's not in those groups' and that balance now seems skewed
I don't particularly think I can add more to what Monica's said about what went wrong, and how its hurting the community. Things could have gone better. I don't really see people getting any happier about it.
I'd like to ask for a few things going forward.
Firstly - that a community team memb...
