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12:02 AM
@ɪʙᴜɢ oh you got to pick
And the 830 pro was the best SSD on the market
12:25 AM
I thought moving to chat deletes the comments on the post, no?
Because I did that, and the comments are still there (but also in chat now).
12:43 AM
@Dukeling It ... should?
Might have a tickbox for it
Ok, it wouldn't
12:54 AM
@JourneymanGeek Only for mods.
@Dukeling You didn't "move" them to chat. "Continue in chat" is different. Only mods can move comments to chat.
@alexolut or @Suvitruf Would one of you mind posting a Russian-translated version of this question on ru.meta.stackoverflow.com? I want an official answer from staff, because the current answer doesn't discuss the Physics site, and I want to know what the current plans are.
"automatically move this discussion to chat" - a bit ambiguous if you ask me.
There should maybe be an auto-flag each time someone does that, since there will surely be some comments that need to be cleaned up.
It pops up as an option after only four back and forth messages. Not necessarily worth mod attention.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog It would be off topic. It's not about Russian SO.
4 back and forth messages are quite a lot, especially if they do actually continue the discussion in chat (which means the discussion was probably more of a discussion and less clarifying things), although I guess mods might have better things to do.
It's four messages.
We only warn mods after 20.
1:00 AM
@Catija Really? meta.hashcode.ru, previously the global meta for the entire company's sites, redirects there. Were all the old questions closed?
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog I don't know... if they were closed... but that doesn't mean that a new one would be left open. We have lots of old SO meta questions from before the split that we don't close because.
... it's just not worth it.
@Catija Okay...in that case, it would be very nice if you got someone to leave an official answer there.
It would be very nice if you would stop trying to force answers to your questions.
1:17 AM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog google translate ;)
I donno who the heck flagged that, but knock it off
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Well, there's a few things you need to remember
There's literally one person who knows for certain
@JourneymanGeek Nicolas Chabanovsky?
1:19 AM
I do not recommend bugging him
Or any of the CM team
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog cause... erm... its mostly pointless?
Unless you happened to need a physics site in russian
"Curiosity" can be a good thing to a point
And We're back to you bothering CMs again
A behavior we have talked about many times, and the community disapproves of
"I'm curious" is fine. But it may be better to spend that energy in ways that make things better for everyone.
1:44 AM
Ok, someone is clearly trying to have a laugh at our expense.
2:02 AM
^ this
morning anyway...
5 hours later…
7:16 AM
19 messages moved to Chimney
7:45 AM
20K meta.stackexchange.com/q/316047/158100 (needs 1 more) /cc @Bart @Glorfindel @ShadowtheWelcomingWizard)
ugh. Writing a meta post
Its a pain in the rear to go "Maybe you need more resources" when you mean "You guys might want to expand the CM team" when you're like "I'd love that job" ;)
8:01 AM
ooh free RA flag ;)
Yep, no delete votes please, as that won't cause an IP block for that user.
the first one was a devvote
the latter was R/A
@Glorfindel The user got an IP block
8:21 AM
@JourneymanGeek You wrote a good post though :)
@Tinkeringbell I try ;)
I on the one hand feel like answering that post and screaming noooo, not a great idea... on the other hand I don't know why I feel that way.
@Tinkeringbell which parts of it?
I think a more streamlined, "lighter" election process makes sense if it saves CM time
But no point spending half the time, doing it twice as often...
@JourneymanGeek if I knew that, I'd probably be writing an answer now ;) it's that stupid intangible thing women call intuition :P
8:40 AM
We don't need intuition ... we rather slam into the brick wall ... multiple times ...
@Tinkeringbell every time I go "I'm not sure why I feel this way" the CMs assign me homework ;p
(see the post about the "better" way to underline stuff, and the one on Help vampires ;) )
@rene Maybe intuition is good, but from my IPS experience I still go 'feelings on a matter aren't an answer'.
@JourneymanGeek I just folded the laundry, does that count as 'homework'?
No, that's housework
8:55 AM
@JourneymanGeek But this house is my home? :P
The answers you got on your help vampire post were good :)
I don't live in a house and I still have to do laundry...am I doing "apartment-work"?
But I do still think the post that's linked is not great.
@JourneymanGeek It needs reading between the lines, so it's probably not the best article to link to an actual problematic chatter.
8:57 AM
but the guidance in it is good, basically everything the answers say is also mentioned in that article
Or a help vampire outside the SE chat context ;)
@Tinkeringbell the 'content' is good.
The tone, less so
@JourneymanGeek You'll never get the 'perfect' tone for such an article ;) Too many different cultures on the web
This post is for the tone deaf
@Tinkeringbell true, but something more serious and less mocking seeming would be nice.
For people who are tone deaf ;)
Well, go write one! :D
9:12 AM
Hence homework lol
I wouldn't be complaining if I got off my rear and wrote one ;)
Nah, it's weekend. Enjoy the free time and the lesser traffic while it lasts :P
I'm working nights actually
so its my busy weekend lol
Ugh, busy weekends :P
10:04 AM
(marketing in the morning, work, dog park, work...)
I just folded the laundry, now I'm re-reading some faq posts I've written for IPS, and after that I'm afraid I'll have to do some work-related stuff :( But then it's gaming, reading and crochet for the rest of the weekend :D
(If mom doesn't barge in with some chores :P)
10:24 AM
The "new election system" MSE post seems making so much sense... given from monitoring tag on per-site child meta, many argued "election should be done regularly" and "should mod for life?".... and~ the idea of mod went missing for a year.
@Somewhat Hmmm. It seems to making sense, but there still is something I feel will be a problem that I can't quite put my finger on.
I've already upvoted a lot of the answers there, I think one of them probably already puts that feeling into words but I haven't realised which one yet :P
My opinion is that employees should moderate sites in their spare time.
Are employees paid to moderate sites? Is it on their job scope?
The employees who did choose to do so in their free time, at least that is what I picked up
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog why?
They may choose to...
10:35 AM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog They'd need to hire a extra people then ;) Or you can wait even longer for flags to be handled :P
but being able to disconnect from work is essential not to burn out
and well, the CM team isn't exactly massively free
Well, then the conclusion is "moderating sites is a voluntary act, not a job" :)
@Tinkeringbell Spare time, not work time...and I'm referring to sites where the moderator team isn't that engaged
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Nicolas can answer in english in you question on MSE. He was responsible for migration of hashcode. And also he is a creator of it.
@JourneymanGeek Not just CMs, but employees from many different branches (e.g. devs, etc.)
@Suvitruf Would you mind getting ahold of him?
10:37 AM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog that assumes they have free time either
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog sure. I'll ping him.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog why would you want to have an obligation to work during your free time?
@Suvitruf Thank you very much :)
@JourneymanGeek Not an obligation, more of an incentive
Actually, I think ... erm...
I think it was Jon - who wrote about basically nearly burning out.
Do they want to moderate sites? If not, then it's better not to.
10:38 AM
Bret Copeland used to moderate the Aviation site during his spare time as an employee.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Cause he chose to
A site where the moderator team isn't that engaged and the staff has to deal with things more often is a sign of a stricken site.
Moderation shouldn't become lax on a stricken site, and the team would have a better indication of them.
And well, lets say I got hired - I'd scale back modding SU, no matter how much I love the community, simply cause I'd like my replacement, and the other mods to grow as mods and not rely on me so much.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog So, those sites get either closed for lack of activity or new moderators.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog if its a stricken site, having more warm bodies handling the queue might not help
10:40 AM
@Tinkeringbell But in the meantime, when the mod calls are running...
and in which case, the CMs need to be.. well...
engaging the community, working out what's wrong and its fixable.
Charcoal has helped deal with abusive posts quite a bit, however
in a sense, the mechanics of moderation is less important than trying to help the community get back on its feet, or putting down the site.
(also CMs do back up mods when needed.)
The real question hasn't been answered: do they want to moderate sites?
Speaking of closed sites, is there a reason why the team chooses to break all old links when a site gets closed? Why not just keep all the links alive, but keep the site "read-only" and put up clear notices that the site has been closed and is no longer accepting new contributions? (That's what's done for closed Wikimedia projects.)
It's possible to put sites in read-only mode; it's often done during server maintenance.
10:43 AM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog should be asked on meta
inb4 deja vu
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog I guess there might be problems with stuff that needed flagging but wasn't flagged because the site was already dead for a while
@Somewhat that's actually an important question ;)
@Somewhat Want opinions here, because if the answer's really obvious I don't want to look like an idiot publicly
because you're afraid of losing reps?
@Tinkeringbell The same could be said of the downloadable data dump.
10:44 AM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog I'd guess part of it is maintainance.
@Somewhat Not just that
A data dump is, static
unless they did what they did with the old blogs, and converted everything into a set of static pages, I'd guess that any new change might break stuff and create extra work
The same could also be done for SO Documentation: keep all the links alive but put up clear notices saying that Documentation has been closed and is no longer accepting contributions
the nice thing about the data dump method is it lets folks get the content without worrying about anything else.
@JourneymanGeek It can break links, though
10:46 AM
Their problem? ;)
could replace it with a cached version or waybackmachine links
Q: Keeping dead beta sites as "archive sites"

EphraimWhen a beta site is closed, the questions that can be migrated are given to other sites. But what about the questions that aren't relevant on other sites? Let's say you have a question, that was fairly high voted, and has an accepted answer. That question may be useful to someone else in the fu...

the same could be said for a deleted post
@Somewhat See, if I went and made a post it would have been closed as a duplicate, because it uses different keywords.
@JourneymanGeek But we already have a mechanism for dealing with those: historical locks.
I tried "closed sites read only"
A: Keeping dead beta sites as "archive sites"

Robert CartainoThere are some substantial unintended side-effects that would make this somewhat undesirable. It doesn't make the Internet better We have a very ambitious company goal: "Make the Internet a better place to get expert answers to your questions." Even the content worth saving has pretty much peak...

That seems canonical ;)
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog in a sense... its not really something that seems 'worth it' for SE.
10:48 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, pattern-matching website in answer (170): Adobe Flash Professional not playing sound from the timeline by Neil Bhisma on superuser.com
also, I am amused at the example he gave
since... there's a new AI.SE :)
a working one, and even sponsored
brb weekly room cleaning
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, you make a good point: archiving instead of closing sites makes it impossible to use the same URL for a reincarnation of the site
The old site would have to be moved to a different domain, e.g. "ai-old"
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog and they didn't even plan it that way
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog which would break links too ...
@JourneymanGeek Deleting all the questions also breaks links...
Links on the site itself should be easy enough to fix with a mass automatic update of all posts and comments.
11:02 AM
done, phew
ooooo... what is this "mini player" on YouTube web...
You can drop the domain with links like this: [abc](/questions/3122), but is there a way to do that with a raw URL: /questions/3122?
@Dukeling in a sense there's no great way to do it
Not that the text of a raw URL is particularly useful (at least / especially not when it's on the same site), could almost just replace it with gibberish.
Well se is a little more logical than some
11:28 AM
FR: magic link for [site.se:<post_id>]
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected (80): Why didn't Batman brand Lex Luthor with the Bat symbol? by Batman on scifi.SE
nvm, doesn't solve the dead link/redirection issue...
@SmokeDetector NSFW image (violent or horror), want some flags to nuke it fast.
I think the text alone made it rude/abusive flag worthy
11:43 AM
but NSFW content makes it want to be nuked faster
and now I'm watching a Mahjongg match mixed with Yu-Gi-Oh card on YouTube...
help, I'm on the weird part of YouTube again
@Suvitruf I like how you still called me a hedgehog despite my username change...
in Stack Overflow на русском on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 1 hour ago, by Suvitruf
@NicolasChabanovsky можете ответить ёжику? ^^^
It's a Sunday night and I'm working. There may be a lot of that
@JourneymanGeek Sunday night? It's Saturday morning here...
From what I can tell Singapore is just 13 hours ahead of the central U.S.
12:00 PM
Happy 10th anniversary Stack Overflow got 9 downvotes. Probably from those who're not happy with downvotes on SO without any comment.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog you will always be a hedgehog in my heart :D
@Suvitruf No problem :)
Shadow will always be a hedgehog in my heart...
@Suvitruf You play Sonic games?
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog sure)
I mean, I used to play a lot, when I was younger.
@Suvitruf On the Mega Drive?
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog probably, sega mega drive 2.
And Sonic the Hedgehog 2.
12:20 PM
@Suvitruf I haven't tried playing Sonic 2 yet...I have emulated Sonic 1 and Sonic CD, however.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog it was fun 15 years ago. But right now it's just nostalgia. Eeeh =/
12:49 PM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog saturday night
@Suvitruf I've been playing streets of rage
used to play it when I was in primary school at a friend's place
nostalgia is kinda fun? sometimes?
replaying Crash Bandicoot because it's available on Steam now...
1:06 PM
currently playing the watchdogs bad blood DLC after I finally worked out how to get out of the opening part of the game ;p
1:56 PM
@JourneymanGeek I've played with my brother. Playing such games alone is not that fun =/
2:18 PM
@Suvitruf true
Rant! I just went shopping, and all the women's clothing in the big brand stores consists entirely of stuff you can litterally see through if you hold them up against the light. How am I supposed to stay warm in that this winter?!
@Tinkeringbell knit it yourself?
@Tinkeringbell and they probably don't have pockets
@JourneymanGeek Well, I can survive shirts without pockets ;) Knitting it myself isn't an option, I can't knit :(
I'm going to ask the big internet what it can do for me.
It's just sad that no designer thinks this stuff through.
2:57 PM
I also figured out what's bothering me about the moderator elections post ;) I can't quite grasp which parts are 'these are problems with the current way of doing things that need to be solved because of XYZ' and 'here's my ideas on all the amazing stuff we could do'
I think the only problem I can find in the whole post is 'we have a backlog of inactive mods and not enough people to keep up with it'?
3:19 PM
Some users expect regular election just like... real world election...
Okay, but are the expectations wrong, or would regular elections solve some kind of problem?
One of the reasons might be that the elected mod turned to be disappointing after wearing their mod hat... (but it's already addressed in "rolling back election is tiring")
Anyway, perhaps some recent discussions on other meta sites? Should we have new moderator elections? on MO and What happened with moderator elections? on EE.SE
3:42 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad pattern in url answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer (154): Installing Windows 10 on a Mint Linux machine, booting problems by linda miller on superuser.com
@Somewhat So, it seems people are concerned with moderators wearing out... then maybe the question of 'does this site need an additional moderator' needs to be discussed more in the open, instead of waiting for someone to post 'why aren't we having elections'?
FWIW I think it's mostly about the shortage of CMs and the backlog of stuff to do. Keeping sites busy with constant election drama would cut down the amount of feature requests on main meta 😃
4:20 PM
STV could be a better alternative for UK MP elections
Also, driving in the rain isn't fun.
@Tinkeringbell Perhaps if we allowed users to themselves start nomination posts instead of getting a CM to start one
@PaulWhite on the other hand, having more elections dosen't really help the shortage of CMs any ;p
@JourneymanGeek Well if the whole process is automated it does.
@PaulWhite assuming they manage to
@Tinkeringbell Lots of the "does this site need more mods" posts I see are based on a bad concept of what moderators do.
4:30 PM
@Catija or is kinda "I don't really like how things are now"
Sure. Either they don't like the current moderators (or a single mod) or they want the mods to be more forceful... which... not what we want in mods. We want mods taking their direction from network policy and site policy decided on by the users.
Or they have some sort of concept that the mods aren't following the policies they want to have upheld, so replacing the mods with new people is a way to shake up site policy...
again, not what mods do.
I actually really do think we should have some sort of minimum activity level for mods... like you say in your post... but that activity shouldn't be the stuff users can see like posting questions/answers... it should be moderation activity - showing up, handling flags, being a part of moderation discussions with the other mods or on meta...
... but I also don't necessarily think that stepping down due to activity (or being asked to step down for activity reasons) should require a moderator to wait for an election to run again... I've never been an elected mod but I'd definitely feel more willing to step down voluntarily when I couldn't stick around if I knew that when things changed in the future I could come back.
Apparently I've seen an unofficial policy of long-time moderators having their privileges revoked. How does that work?
It's not unofficial.
If mods are absentee for 6 months, we reach out to them and check in to see if they want to stay on the roster. If we don't get a response or if they want to give up the position, they get their diamond removed.
4:42 PM
The Startups site had a moderator who hadn't been seen since November 2015, yet they had their privileges all the way until the very end.
... But that's part of the time consuming part that Robert's talking about.
Startups was beta... that's the entire point of this post... appointing new mods is time consuming and hard. And we don't generally remove a diamond until we have a replacement.
And the site shuttering is due to the fact we couldn't replace the mods...
The way Wikipedia's policy for inactive administrators is: 1 year of inactivity, procedural removal of tools, can request them back; 3 years of inactivity, must go through the selection process again; 5 years of not performing an admin action, admin bit removed (if not already) and must go through selection process again. That last part was only added very recently.
@Catija They did appoint a replacement for them, but their diamond wasn't removed.
... OK? But we don't have anything like that system. There's only one mod level.
@Catija I think once you've reached the stage of removing inactive mods, a site hopefully has been around long enough to be eligible for pro tempore elections...
@Tinkeringbell Being eligible and having anyone run are two different things. Cooking's last election barely had enough people running to even hold the election and that site has been around for years.
4:48 PM
One other thing I've noticed is that many sites which falter a bit on questions per day, but all the other four statistics on the Area 51 page are excellent, don't graduate.
Yeah, people wanting to run are another problem I guess. But I doubt that's solved by Robert's proposal, as that seems to me to invite more elections... So more chances of people not running?
If you have a slot and no one runs... you've got a problem. If you have a slot and only one person - someone with 300 rep and no history on the site at all... that's arguably a bigger problem...
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog The policy is pretty clear that minimum QPD is the most important factor in our consideration.
@Tinkeringbell Yes. If anything, it exacerbates the problem and makes it more likely that a site would be shut down. If an existing mod doesn't show up during the election to nominate and only one or two people nominate, that puts the site at risk of being shut down entirely.
I broached the idea of supplemental moderators, or mods who don't have that much experience on the site or the subject matter but do know the SE model very well. They'd handle things like abuse, vote irregularities, sock puppets, etc. but would be expected to defer to "regular" mods when subject knowledge is needed.
to be honest vote irregularities and sock puppets are some of the things I find most difficult to handle :/
They could serve as mentors to site regulars who don't very well know how to moderate a site but have participated on it contributing a lot of content.
4:52 PM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog You could say that without saying "when we met in person", you know... I feel like you bring that up way, way more often than necessary and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that it makes me uncomfortable.
@Catija Hmm. That wasn't a thought I was originally playing with, but it adds to my 'this seems like a bad idea' list ;)
... That's literally worse.
@Catija Sorry about that, that wasn't my intent. Can you as a mod please edit it so it starts with "I broached"?
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Hmmm. I wouldn't want someone mentoring people on IPS about what makes not an answer there in the review queues if they're not already familiar with the site.
that said, Korean.SE and Emacs.SE elections might be in vain... (even though Emacs.SE wanted an election)
5:00 PM
@Somewhat Yeah, so as long as elections without candidates are a problem, it may not be a great idea to talk about re-election (unless people aren't nominating because they really, really hate the current team and don't want to work with them)
deep sigh
5:21 PM
@Magisch Am I missing a point?
its ok
@Magisch Are you ok though? :)
okay :)
Here, have some weird cops... pbs.twimg.com/media/DoRj2svXkAIe48T.jpg:large. Yes, I know that protecting your rump is the main idea of those outfits, but still the jeans and sneakers look a tad ridiculous ;)
5:34 PM
Anyway, (not-so random) random meta post...
Q: Incarcerated SE?

JenFamily of prisoners have many questions about prison programs, regulations, life hacks et cetera. This would be good as a deterrent to prison for people who haven't tried prison. This could be a place for prisoners can share their interpersonal skills not common in Interpersonal Skills SE. I unde...

@Somewhat Hmm. Interpersonal skills not so common on IPS... would that be how to bribe the guard? :P
also in most places prisoners don't have internet....
(I just bought another 7 books :/)
I miss my old 'local' bookstore :(
5:50 PM
I went to 2 bookstores today, they both didn't have the book I wanted in stock. So I decided to 'order online'.
Never ever look at a top 10 or 25 when ordering online.
Strange: someone claiming they got into trouble on an SE site due to the the facebook hack: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/374710/…
wasn't chloe the user who had troll problems?
I dunno
Seeing this revision, I'm questioning about "not being rude"...
Granted, I didn't see any visible activity on InfoSec.SE on the last 2 weeks...
5:59 PM
shrug I know some people who know some people who pinged some people...
well, sure. At least it got migrated into the right venue
There should be something instead of X secs ago ^
@rene :)
I think that's time from migration
@NogShine I have a bug report about that
@JourneymanGeek Yes. But modified or asked or migrated.. something..
6:02 PM
@rene Thanks for saving my time. +1
@JourneymanGeek Wasn't that Zoe?
ah, I might have gotten them confused ._.
Their Travel account has 1 rep but not suspended and no bounty, that means it got red flagged...
but nothing's recorded on Metasmoke...
6:30 PM
Unrelated, but a nice group photo here :)
Q: DF2018 meetup Goup picture

glls Thank you everyone for attending, it was nice to meet all of you. Hope to see you again in other events!

6:44 PM
@Somewhat Could have been spam or abuse that didn't trigger an automatic filter and no one bothered to file a manual report
indeed that's a possibility, but I gave up investigating it because it's impossible for a mere mortal like me :)
@Amadan I notice you keep lurking ;)
@Somewhat It was back in 2016.
From before Charcoal became a big thing.
That said, Charcoal does help mitigate abuse on communities where not many regulars are taking care of it.
@Catija thanks, doesn't seem related at all...
6:50 PM
@Catija ._. that would indicate a longer suspension
Hmm? The meta post asking about suspension on InfoSec, the one I asked was about Travel's account.
Anyway...on an unrelated note, today was my first time I ever had my hair cut in Austin. So far, I've always been having it cut at home during visits or breaks.
1 hour later…
8:13 PM
Q: Will Area 51 Discussions be getting a responsive design?

Sonic the Inclusive WerehogIt's been said already that due to the age of Area 51's code base, it will not be affected by the upcoming design changes. However, the Area 51 Discussions site runs on a more modern code base, the same one that powers the rest of the sites. However, I noticed that in the tracking post, it's not...

Why are you pinging me about this?
huh, traducir.win is SE's own translation tool?
oh it seems so... written by gr4v3 :)
hmm... looks like an interface to Transifex, but doesn't seem to allow proposing translation though... 🤔 I'm an idiot. The string item is clickable...
8:45 PM
@Catija Because I commented about this on the linked post, but didn't receive a response, so I figured I'd let you know of the question?
9:04 PM
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog It can wait?
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog When you ping me about stuff like that, it feels like you're saying 'You're not doing your job, start doing it". I don't like it. If I had an answer, I'd give you one. Please, don't ping me about stuff until it's been at least a week or it's something critical that needs immediate attention.
@Catija I just wanted to bring your attention to its existence and to let you know to get to it eventually.
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog Amazingly enough @Catija reads meta ;)
@SonictheInclusiveWerehog You don't get to tell me what to get to eventually.
3 hours later…
11:59 PM
When did “If you are located within the European Union, you must be at least 16 years old to access or use the Network or Services” get added into stackoverflow.com/legal/terms-of-service/public#age ?

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