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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 23:00

1:00 PM
@JourneymanGeek Ehh. You want the fun or philosophical answer? :P
 
@Tinkeringbell yes?
 
@Tinkeringbell you are legion
 
(I'm a wee bit tubby)
as is ash ;p
So, pots, kettles, glass houses... ;p
 
Real parrots have wings, legs... but other birds have wings and legs too. So what makes a parrot a parrot? What is 'The Idea' of a parrot? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_forms
Another fun one, from a book I'm currently reading: Can there be reasons without reasoners?
 
@Tinkeringbell What's your reason for believing this?
:p
 
1:12 PM
@Magisch I'm not at that chapter yet :P
 
> Can there be reasons without reasoners?
No, but there can be causation and relation.
 
strictly speaking the universe is a perfectly deterministic system
so everything you do is a strict consequence of chemicals in your brain
yes, even the reaction to this
 
@Magisch assuming all the variables are known
 
@Magisch gets it :P
@JourneymanGeek You don't need to know the variables for something to be deterministic. You need to know the variables if you want to predict something.
 
@JourneymanGeek The variables don't need to be known to exist
 
1:13 PM
@Magisch Yeah, but why are we reacting with specific chemicals?
 
only if you want to predict ahead
 
What made us evolve a brain that works this way?
 
@Tinkeringbell The fact that we are carbon-based life forms.
 
@Magisch but if you don't know how something will react, how do you know its reacting in a certain way?
 
which is why it seems like an entropic system: we cannot predict ahead.
 
1:14 PM
Chemicals come natural to us.
@Magisch The term thrown around in neuroscience is stochastic.
 
@JourneymanGeek you can observe it
 
@Magisch but what if its different each time
 
Wouldn't that just mean there are different variables?
 
one example
I trow my glove onto the table
 
What's the difference between a system with chaotic inputs acting in a deterministic way, and a system which is just chaotic?
 
1:15 PM
@JourneymanGeek Chaos theory is specifically about complex interactions in a deterministic system. There is no such thing as "just chaotic".
 
@Magisch we don't know that for sure though
 
I can predict that the glove landed there because of a very specific set of factos that made it so. From the moment I threw, the glove was always going to land there. Now if I throw again, it might not, because some variables are different. I also don't get to predict exactly where the glove lands, because I lack the sophistication to know all factors involved perfectly.
 
@doppelgreener Ohhh... a new 'religion'! :D
 
@Magisch why did you throw it? ;p
 
@JourneymanGeek Yup! The book focuses on why, not what ;)
 
1:16 PM
So semantics?
 
chemicals in my brain reacted in such a way to send electrical signals to my muscles to make me throw it
 
(I actually belueve in a certain level of deterministicness)
but the concequences are really at times I try to create the variables for a favourable outcome.
Which sometimes dosen't work
and sometimes works in a unpredictable fashion ;p
 
@forest Duh. Half of philosophy is semantics. I'm going to hopefully buy 'the idiot brain' next, on the ride home. That's neuroscience in a for dummies way, so hopefully the two will complement each other :)
 
Also before anyone brings it up, quantum indeterminism does not affect deterministic physics (i.e. the same input to a function will always result in the same output, even if some of the input is random).
 
@Tinkeringbell well i mean, quantum physics is not necessarily deterministic, and enough nondeterminism on the quantum scale results in nondeterminism on the macro scale
 
1:18 PM
@doppelgreener But that's not true, see my previous comment.
The inputs may be nondeterministic, but any function (anything that can be modeled mathematically) will be deterministic with the same input.
In other words, if you reset the universe and set the quantum indeterminism "seed" (whatever it is that causes such randomness) to the same value, the entire universe would behave identically each time.
 
the theory of quantum indeterminism has holes in itself. It's perfectly possible that it is deterministic but we lack the sophistication for formulating its variables
 
[citation needed]?
 
@Magisch That's what I personally would guess, but hey, I'm no theoretical physicist!
 
@doppelgreener Ehhh, do we ever do that in chat? :P
 
@Magisch That's actually false. See Bell's theorem.
 
1:20 PM
@Tinkeringbell i'm genuinely interested in whether that's the case or not, but if it's not cited then what i said isn't necessarily untrue :P
 
@JohnDvorak I recall an answer on physics.se which explained that it's still an open question.
I think it had something to do with Bell's theorem only being about local variables.
 
I see the Tavern is a bit more high-brow than usual this morning. :P ... thanks to... parrots?
 
You can't have deterministic universe with only one reality that evolves under local rules
 
@Catija quite
 
@Catija :( I started with philosophy because thinking is something I can do. If we're going to do physics, I'm out. I don't know much more than 'apples fall from trees due to gravity'
 
1:21 PM
lol
 
high brow parotting
 
Looks like Physics.se has a determinism tag
 
I could use the distraction lol. Today's ... been interesting
 
Have fun, I'll try to keep up!
I'm just no good at contibuting to it. I can read what you all are saying though ;)
 
i'm not a physicist either :P
 
1:23 PM
this is less mind melting then dealing with gdpr compliance
so I'm happy for the distraction
 
That's actually false as well. It's more accurate to say that apples get torn from their trees because the trees are pushed up by a constant force of Earth accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 due to its internal pressure
 
I know the acceleration of gravity is 9.8 m/s... at sea level.
 
In quantum mechanics, superdeterminism is a hypothetical class of theories that evade Bell's theorem by virtue of being completely deterministic. It is conceivable that someone could exploit this loophole to construct a local hidden variable theory that reproduces the predictions of quantum mechanics. Superdeterminists do not recognize the existence of genuine chances or possibilities anywhere in the cosmos. Bell's theorem assumes that the types of measurements performed at each detector can be chosen independently of each other and of the hidden variable being measured. In order for the argument...
(I think is the gist of what I was reading on Physics.SE)
 
And now my physics reaches its limit
 
That doesn't stop most people from arguing passionately and unwaveringly about their stance on the internet! :P
 
1:25 PM
Ah, that theory
 
@JohnDvorak I've really never ever seen someone explain gravity that way. My mind is going to need some ductape now. It's broken.
 
@JohnDvorak I've only heard gravity described as geodesics and world lines.
 
Geodesics are the curves that an apple follows while falling
 
I know. I just mean I've only heard about it from the GR standpoint.
I've never heard it described the way you did.
 
assuming it's falling from a tree and not from an airplane
Just saying the Earth's surface isn't an inertial frame of reference :P
 
1:28 PM
Oh OK.
 
excuse me my head hurts
 
Oh, I do know I'm hurling through space at an exceptionally scary speed :P
 
@Magisch Read up on the hard problem of consciousness, IIT, and the binding problem if you want your head to really hurt! Or read the ACPI standard...
 
@Magisch Take some DPO stuff, should fix it right away :P
 
@Tinkeringbell technically since the universe has no center point or the center point can be anywhere, space is hurtling around you at exceptionally scary speed
 
1:30 PM
Does that include the universe expanding as well? :P
 
@doppelgreener but if you say it like that, I'm the point of reference for the universe?
 
We live in a small, small hubble volume...
 
@Tinkeringbell correct
 
Cool. I'm the center of the universe. All bow to me! :D
 
orz
all hail tinkeringbell
 
1:31 PM
@doppelgreener OOOH! You're going to the penal colonies for spelling my name wrong!
 
Wait, I thought I was the center of the universe? Damn you solipsism, stop lying to me!
 
whoOPS
[destroys evidence]
 
Earth is moving at ~360 km/s or so in the CMBR reference frame
most of it being due to its orbit around the galactic center
 
Lies. We all know the Earth is flat and staying still.
 
@forest Pancake!
 
1:33 PM
 
So the Earth is actually upside down??
Gravity would make us fall off!
 
@forest Do we even know for sure which side is up?
 
That's obviously a photoshop by NASA to control the population.
@Tinkeringbell Well North is always up on the maps.
 
Explains why Straya is so dangerous. The rest of the world has to spend half of its energy to not fall into space
 
I don't envy the poor Australians...
 
1:35 PM
@forest Yeah, but that's by convention, not science! So... if there's no cente of the universe r or the center point can be anywhere for the universe, we don't really know which side of earth is up.
 
We know exactly where the center is
 
DO we?
 
I'm hereby declaring this office chair I'm sitting in to become my throne on the absolute pinnacle of the upside of the earth! :P
 
Well there's no up in space. Unless you count Sagitarius A* as the center.
 
... and the closest point to the center is the Mariana trench. So have fun, land-dwellers.
 
1:36 PM
Then "up" is whenever our feet are pointing at it.
 
@forest I want to learn more about your biology
 
@JohnDvorak where no one can go... that seems suspicious.
 
@JohnDvorak that's the closest point to the center, but that's not 'up'?
 
@JohnDvorak He's a dufflepud?
 
Hmm...
Points are never up, by definition
just like points are never red or elephant
 
1:37 PM
(A*) ⊕ >-|o <- this person is on top of the Earth!
 
Why is Earth in parentheses?
 
And what's the A* in parentheses mean?
 
There, it's not anymore.
@Tinkeringbell Sagitarius A*, the center of the galaxy (a supermassive black hole).
 
I think he's talking about the pathing algorithm
 
@JohnDvorak It's true, in Australia we naturally select to those who have the fortitude to remain on the planet. All the others that fall off are not worthy. But this means the wildlife has also evolved along the same lines.
 
1:39 PM
And potentially also the god which rules over Helios.
 
@forest So, an arbitrary center point to decide which side is up? :P
 
Yep!
And if that's not sufficient, then we could use the great attractor as the center.
 
@doppelgreener that's to say, the british sent all the convicts there and the ones who didn't fall out...
 
For all of us that consider ourselves residents of Laniakea, not Earth.
 
@JourneymanGeek the ones that didn't fall out must be left in australia. they are too powerful and would overthrow the empire.
 
1:41 PM
@JourneymanGeek Damn British, trying to kill prisoners by dropping them off the Earth!
 
@forest and succeeding
 
:P
 
@JohnDvorak and failing
 
That's also why Columbus had to stay on the Northern hemisphere. He knew just how dangerous the Cape Town was.
 
@doppelgreener They would make good minions :)
 
1:43 PM
COlumbus might have reached india if he had stopped to ask for directions
 
@Tinkeringbell You'd be better off with a bunch of Emus.
 
@forest fun fact. The australian army declared war on emus. The emus won
 
@forest Always place in my armies for more :) Battle Emus :D
 
@JourneymanGeek Exactly what I was referencing. :P
They are the true rulers of Australia.
 
The Emu War, also known as the Great Emu War, was a nuisance wildlife management military operation undertaken in Australia over the latter part of 1932 to address public concern over the number of emus said to be running amok in the Campion district of Western Australia. The unsuccessful attempts to curb the population of emus, a large flightless bird indigenous to Australia, employed soldiers armed with Lewis guns—leading the media to adopt the name "Emu War" when referring to the incident. While a number of the birds were killed, the emu population persisted and continued to cause crop destruction...
 
1:44 PM
Brave warriors.
 
@JourneymanGeek it's true and this is still hilarious to me
the whole thing made no sense from the outset
 
@JourneymanGeek You know, for a while, Wikipedia used the military template.
 
@forest LOL
 
And actually listed Emus as the belligerents.
 
1:45 PM
Marking losses and victory?
brilliant
 
Yep.
 
seems accurate
 
How many people died?
 
With the leaders for the Emus being "Emus" and a picture of an Emu.
 
Should have been labeled as no leader
 
1:46 PM
== earlier comments == Some context from Emu, perhaps about changing Australian ecological approaches to Emus would be better. Hard to see why this is separate. --Wetman 07:15, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC) It's pretty much a duplicate of the information I added to emu years ago. I see no pressing need to merge it, but have no objection either. Tannin 01:22, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)LMAO dumb australians lost to some emus XD — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.125.226 (talk) 19:40, 4 January 2018 (UTC) == Capitalization == To the user who keeps wrongly capitalizing the word "emu" in this article - stop it...
 
@JohnDvorak zero human casualties, estimates vary on how many emus died
 
ah. Boring.
 
@JohnDvorak If you count the ones dying of laughter? Quite a lot :P
 
> |combatant1={{flagicon|Australia}}[[Commonwealth of Australia]]
> |combatant2=Emus
> |commander1={{flagicon|Australia}}Sir [[George Pearce]]<br/>{{flagicon|Australia}}Major G.P.W. Meredith
|commander2=Emus
Weird template format, meh.
But yeah, it's still amazing.
 
2:25 PM
 
...
I got that one
 
Tried explainxkcd, nothing there yet...
> On 26 September 1983, the nuclear early-warning system of the Soviet Union reported the launch of multiple USAF Minuteman intercontinental ballistic missiles from bases in the United States. These missile attack warnings were correctly identified as a false alarm by Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov, an officer of the Soviet Air Defence Forces. This decision is seen as having prevented a retaliatory nuclear attack based on erroneous data...
I heard about that, just didn't remember the name.
 
any idea how would the 10a aniversary swag be awarded?
like writing a story on MSO?
 
no word yet
If there was, and if it wasn't pinned. Words Would Be Had
 
Tim sort of talks about it in the MSO post he made.
141
Q: Happy 10th anniversary Stack Overflow! Commence ... au festival!

Tim PostStack Overflow turns 10 years old today. In the world of Internet startups, that's a pretty big deal — most assumed we would have flopped or gotten ourselves acquired by now. Many of us have had pets that didn't last this long, and in dog years, we're really pushing it. See the linked blog post f...

 
2:36 PM
2052 exists on explainxkcd, but 2051 doesn't have a Next link yet. Interesting.
 
> Your missions, should you care to accept them, are to accomplish whatever unit of 'fun' we set up in a series of posts in order to unlock some pretty awesome limited edition swag. And we're not just talking t-shirts and stickers here (though, those are awesome, they're also too typical for this occasion). We're talking the good stuff.

Bigger gifts mean bigger asks. Maybe you'll be looking at our rendered markup for proof that Joe Friend is really Illuminati. Maybe we'll ask for a few paragraphs sharing your thoughts on a particular moment in time. Maybe we'll ask you to break out the cra
 
Good stuff like a Stack Overflow branded iPhone XS?
 
Ha. No.
 
a Stack Overflow branded Lamborghini?
Space ship?
Can I get a planet?
 
You do know that if you accept gifts of that sort of value, you're generally still expected to pay the taxes on them, which can be in the thousands, right? :P
 
2:42 PM
The government can have a chunk of my planet. I'll break it off and send it towards earth.
 
@Catija oddly enough, I got my current SSD off an SE competition. I value my swag more.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body, email in body (103): Trekking and Tour in Nepal by Nepal Planet Treks and Expedit on travel.SE
 
They had cool stuff in full startup mode :p
 
I don't think an SSD costs what a car or space ship does.
Or even an iPhone
 
@Catija hmm
Biggest prizes I remember we're a surface rt ... And maybe a TV
Were, damned autocorrect
But no, not a car :p
TBH I'd rather se spend the money on a spare Dev or cm
(than a car or planet)
 
2:54 PM
just wanna say if SO sells swag again I'll buy 10 tshirts and 5 hoodies
(no joke btw)
 
The prior issues I've heard with selling it is that, if the sales aren't limited to only specific countries, it becomes a huge headache (more than just giving out free stuff)... so if we can't sell it to everyone, it's not fair to only sell it to the people who are easy to sell it to.
I'm not sure how many fulfillment companies out there even do worldwide ... I don't even think Amazon does.
 
@Catija heh. I've worked around that a few times
 
@JourneymanGeek an SSD?
random joking ideas: Sell swag for "reputation", which is essentially still giving away because you pay nothing
 
< fully prepared to spend a month's salary to kit myself out in so swag
 
and soon Jon Skeet will loot the whole Stack Overflow :)
@Magisch aren't T shirts and hoodies the same thing?
 
3:05 PM
A "hoodie" is a sweatshirt. With a hood.
Goes over your shirt to keep you warm.
 
(question from a resident in a tropical area who never heard about warmkeeper cloths)
@SmokeDetector k
 
@ɪʙᴜɢ ya. Prize was basically anything up to a certain value on Amazon...
They wouldn't ship here so I got it over com gateway
 
I personally prefer receiving those that I don't care much about its details, like wearings or decoratives
If I got an SSD, however I got it, I would benchmark it first. Same goes for other computer peripherals
Excluding PSUs.
 
user168476
3:22 PM
@JourneymanGeek IIRC one of the Arqade things had a TV as a prize
 
@Ash Woah, that's pretty good o.o
 
user168476
3:51 PM
@Henders it was a very long time ago, but yeah it was
 
4:36 PM
@ɪʙᴜɢ If it's 5-10c outside, you kind of want more then a tshirt
 
meh
 
Well, I want more then a tshirt
I get cold
 
 
2 hours later…
6:51 PM
Can I please get some free-hand circle help? nationalgeographic.nl/sites/netherlands/files/styles/image_885/… is apparently an image of a jellyfish with a piece of plastic in it's body that says 'philip morris international' (it's from cigarettes).... I just can't find it?
 
Oh huh.... that looks almost like a part of the jellyfish though! Thanks :D
 
 
2 hours later…
8:49 PM
@Tinkeringbell Sure :D
 
 
2 hours later…
10:20 PM
@Magisch no mugs? ;)
 
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