Tavern on the Meta

user310756

12:01 AM

@rene thanks for the heads up. I'll write a comment first and then feel free to delete vote if that's your wish

Something Bad Happened

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog votes are anonymous

user194636

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Don't harass people about voting, or how you believe they voted.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog please don't harass people about questions or votes here.

→ 2 messages moved to Chimney

I think we've had the former talk already so... well, please keep that in mind.

@Tinkeringbell or just nod. or better yet, stare at them like a cat until they get uncomfortable and go away.

→ 1 message moved to Chimney

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

12:48 AM

@JourneymanGeek As a moderator, is it possible for you to see others' close voting choices, including votes cast outside of the review UI, before the question actually gets closed?

Journeyman Geek

erm.

Not sure that I should share that

Or if I care

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Can a regular user with a certain amount of rep see that?

Journeyman Geek

errrrrr

See if I answered that, I'd probably give away if I could

But no, I don't think I can see that on MSE

Once again though, I don't really care (most of the time)

If you really need to know maybe you can ask on MSE?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

in Sonic's Den, Sep 7 at 1:50, by Catija

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog It'd also be really nice if you'd not pretend that you didn't close it and casually ask about it in chat and then lie about it. I didn't look it up in the database. Any mod can see it right on the question in the history... and anyone who's 20K can look at it in the tools: https://meta.stackexchange.com/review/close/history

@JourneymanGeek ^^

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog If you know, why ask? ;)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

12:56 AM

@JourneymanGeek Does that link only show review history, or all close votes, even those cast outside of review?

Journeyman Geek

4 mins ago, by Journeyman Geek

If you really need to know maybe you can ask on MSE?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I'll get downvoted and lose rep.

Then I won't get an answer.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog but if you keep annoying people here, they will leave and you'll not get an answer too.

and you picked up the wrong lesson from that.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Did you feel annoyed by the fact that I pinged you asking about it?

Journeyman Geek

No. Rather that we're back to the behaviours in general that well, makes people annoyed.

> Not sure that I should share that

Means "hey, so I'm not sure if this is something that I can tell you about or hint at"

which means "drop it"

It does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination "Hey you should keep reframing the question until I can give you an answer"

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:02 AM

This is actually a very big question. If 10k+ users can't see all close votes, not just those cast through review, it means that if a moderator publicly calls me out for casting a close vote, they'd be violating the moderator agreement. This exact situation happened not too long ago. The only difference was that the moderator was actually an SE employee, who was not bound to the moderator agreement.

On the other hand, if a 10k+ user can see all close votes through that link, there was no violation.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog see, if you're blaming a mod or CM for telling you off for being disingenuous, SOMETHING is clearly wrong with how you're looking at it

Stop trying to blame cat, or worse.

Also, if you're going to spend most of your time trying to argue with people, its not nice and makes this place a less pleasant, and undoes a lot of work we've done lately.

We arn't going to have that

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Out of curiosity, would clarifying that I'm not trying to blame Catija constitute "arguing"?

Journeyman Geek

At the moment. Yes.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

The only reason I'm asking these questions is because I'm curious.

Journeyman Geek

The ice is very thin for you.

Try not to fall in.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

1:15 AM

@JourneymanGeek My own communication style is to blame. I often think I'm having a regular conversation, merely responding to people's statements and asking follow-up questions, while possibly in the eyes of the other person and definitely in the eyes of third parties, we're having an argument. In real life, one can use tone to distinguish (soft vs. harsh), but it's not possible here.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well, and the tendancy to try to be the center of attention a lot of the time

Somewhat

1:41 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I guess one of your communication problem is to ping someone directly when you ask something, compared to... just ask, without needing a ping. If someone is interested, they will reply. Otherwise, if the question is ignored, the move on...

(oh great, I'll be late to the office...)

Somewhat

1:55 AM

And one more thing: Even if you expect a direct and honest reply, I can't do that. I can't be truly honest with you because it will look like I'm belittling you, and I'll be in danger of getting flagged in this public chat room. That said, I regret replying to the above, it's better for me not to handle this and ignore you instead...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Resources for designing 4 layer PCBs by liuliying on electronics.SE

user194636

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Which part of the moderator agreement do you think it would violate? Do you regard a close vote as personally-identifying information? Just curious about the rationale there.

Rob

2:16 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ...You're publicly accusing someone of not doing their job correctly. There's no tone you could use in real life that would make this seem like a question out of mere curiosity.

Journeyman Geek

2:31 AM

@Somewhat this... is a big problem I'm having.

The moderator manual (aka the theory of moderation) also talks about working on the behaviour, not the person, which gets harder when... well, the behaviours get on your nerves.

user194636

@JourneymanGeek On that point, it is public knowledge:

user194636

18

A: Can moderators see the close/reopen _votes_ (and _not_ the reviews)?

Yes, diamond moderators have access to a special timeline on posts which does list all close and reopen votes (and who cast them) inside it, including any that have expired or otherwise no longer count. Close and reopen votes are the only votes that they see in that timeline, though. This informa...

Journeyman Geek

@PaulWhite oh, I was actually aware of that

actually had a link with a screenshot from shog opened, admittedly one that I found cause I knew it was in the timeline.

On the other hand, I felt that humouring him with an answer fed the behaviour. :(

user194636

and to address the question about what 10kers can see:

user194636

15

Q: Is it possible to know who VTCed a question before the five vote limit is reached?

Is it possible to know who voted to close a question before the five vote limit is reached?

Somewhat

2:37 AM

Well, then I'm honestly disappointed that Sonic failed to find those and instead ask a mod directly here...

user194636

I personally don't mind helping people find answers to questions, but I agree the framing was off.

user194636

This is also vaguely relevant:

user194636

well, I think closing (or reopening) should be a public vote process, and those who wish a question closed should be willing to put their names on that vote — Jeff Atwood Mar 30 '10 at 10:35

user194636

Archeology can be fun 🙂

Journeyman Geek

@PaulWhite well, technically it is once its closed ;)

user194636

2:48 AM

yep

Journeyman Geek

But ya, I had serious issues with how that was framed.

SmokeDetector

3:15 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body, potentially bad keyword in body: IELTS & TOEFL, ESOL certificates without Exams by mellissa bookes on english.SE

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

3:26 AM

I asked a user directly here because I wasn't sure if those posts were still relevant, or if things had changed. (cc @PaulWhite @Somewhat @JourneymanGeek)

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'm trying to get the best way to "kindly" put across what a core problem here is.

I'm not happy with calling you a help vampire - but have you considered that folks here might be here for something other than digging into stuff you can't or won't find yourself, and helping to solve for your curiocity?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Admittedly, I should have linked those posts, and asked, "is the answer here still valid?".

Journeyman Geek

That dosen't solve why people are annoyed at you though

It isn't about the pinging. Its about the demands on time, and well, the fact that you're mostly here to, well satisfy your curiocity

and that, and these little incidents kinda make it harder for other folks to chat.

And if I ever hear "i'm asking here cause I'm afraid to get downvoted on meta" again I will probably be quite annoyed

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I value my Meta rep quite a bit. Every downvote I receive reduces my self-esteem a little bit. Now I have an irrational fear that any question I post will receive downvotes.

user168476

Downvotes happen. It's just...how it works, especially on Meta (MSE or child metas).

Journeyman Geek

3:32 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog let me frame it this way. There's three reasons something could get downvoted. Firstly, its not useful. Secondly, unfortunately, people don't like you and downvote you. Third, Tim Post lost his keys.

Here's the amazing part. You can do something about the first two.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

4. Your feature request was disliked.

user168476

Not every feature request is going to be universally loved, but that doesn't mean that making them is always terrible

user168476

Like even if they get downvotes and such, it encourages the community to, for a moment, think about things from a new angle

Journeyman Geek

Here's another thing. I'm getting 15+ K reputation a year.

What am I doing you arn't?

I'm certainly not asking questions on how things work.

admittedly I have an advantage in being a moderator but I rarely post about mod tools.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Ash Well, then the system shouldn't be set up such that users who post well-reasoned but disliked FRs should lose rep. I've (for fear of downvotes) held off on proposing a separate system of "agreement/disagreement" votes that don't affect rep in any way, while redefining the current voting system to be completely for quality, as it is on main Q&A sites.

Journeyman Geek

3:36 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog but but ...

more or less this has been asked many times and isn't going to happen

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

It feels like a clique. What amplifies that feeling is that the system offers to give you back your lost rep in exchange for renouncing your idea and recanting your opinion.

Journeyman Geek

I'm asking what you are willing to change to make things work?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I'm not far behind, #4 in the annual rep league if you exclude staff members.

@JourneymanGeek I'm super curious on how the system works.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog on the other hand, people seem to feel I know how it does.

Simply because, well, I get the system isn't a rigid set of rules

its something dynamic, and there's a good set of things that one learns by observing

And if you're not getting that, well its a social ecosystem in many ways, with rules that are ill defined...

I'm sorry, you don't understand the system, nor will you, ever

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog If I EVER make a post, and it gets downvoted. Well, It stays. I appreciate comments. I try to use those for the next time.

user168476

@JourneymanGeek Learning experiences! :)

Journeyman Geek

3:41 AM

Yup!

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I agree that they're good learning experiences, but they shouldn't be rep hits.

Journeyman Geek

I mean, sure I do talk though stuff here and elsewhere but...

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog rep is just a number, really.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I shouldn't be set back away from a privilege just because I posted a request that happened to be unpopular.

Journeyman Geek

I don't participate on meta cause I want the rep

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek A number that gives you privileges, and a number that I value highly.

Journeyman Geek

3:42 AM

heck, I might do a Big Bear, and start using aibobot on meta once I hit 100K

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog which I think brings us to the idea of positional and soft power.

user168476

If you're getting to the point where you're circumventing how things should work for the sake of what turns out to be a pretty empty number after a certain point, and that you're putting so much value in that number that it's preventing you from doing other things, maybe that might be something to do some self-reflection on why this thing is important, and if it needs to be that important

user168476

(especially if it keeps you from fun stuff you like that doesn't rely on external validation that might go awkwardly if you're not received like you expect)

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog let me put it this way

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Sure, any rep you get after 25k is disposable because you don't earn privileges beyond that number, but I'm not at that point yet.

user168476

(aka for me, it's knowing when I gotta go read a romance novel, because I know that will end happy with 0 risk to myself)

Journeyman Geek

3:44 AM

How many people are you willing to alienate to get that number up?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek How does my posting on the site alienate people, and how does my chat activity here help me earn rep?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog well, lets think about the cycle.

You're asking stuff on here - to the point where people have trouble doing other things, so you can 'fix' stuff on meta, or answer.

because you're 'afraid' to ask on meta, because you'll get downvoted.

People have and do get annoyed - because they arn't just here for that, and they see stuff on meta and go "eh, its that guy"

at best, they're going to ignore you. At worst...

I learnt how things work by picking a site, working with it for a long time, somehow becoming a mod, then occationally realising I don't really know anything, and ... sitting back and listening, or poking at things and making mistakes.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek They'll violate intended voting rationales and downvote me?

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog its possible, yes.

On the other hand - I've worked towards trying to have people have a positive impression of me.

EVEN if I suggested something that seems... well, not the way we do things.

I might have people give it a chance cause "hey, this guy's been around the block, and seems helpful"

I mean, sure I may have longer term motives ;)

but shhhh

So, the impression you leave on people matters

and as far as tavern on the meta goes, well - we've been trying to address things for a while

So... specific things I'd like you to think about - "how are people reacting to me asking questions here?" "Are they unhappy with this and why?" "Do I sound like I'm blaming others for my problems?"

Cause in this conversation, all these things came up.

Somewhat

At this point, I'm pessimist about it...

SmokeDetector

3:57 AM

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Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat I'm going to pull out the code of conduct here ;)

I see someone struggling. I'm trying VERY hard to help

Patience isn't unlimited, I agree ;)

Fun part is, I'm kinda finding a pain point in talking about a certain behavior seriously and... might have a meta question about it ;)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

!!/report meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315618/…

SmokeDetector

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Post 1: Already recently reported [ MS ]

SmokeDetector

4:38 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in answer, offensive answer detected, toxic answer detected: Would dual saberstaffs offer a greater advantage to other lightsabers? by Jamie phillips on scifi.SE

Travis J

5:23 AM

@JourneymanGeek - Regardless of how I view someone, if they post on one of the sites, I vote based on what they posted, even for people who I really dislike. That is the only way this whole thing works. Since it does work, I have to believe that is how others behave as well.

I think it is a slippery slope to suggest that Sonic's posts are downvoted solely because of his social interactions with users. In my opinion, his posts are voted on based off of genuine reactions which, in some cases (not all, not really even many or most) that I will absolutely not enumerate here even if pressed, are negative reactions.

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ sigh I'm trying to frame the changes we'd like to see in the terms he's bringing up.

and tbh, sometimes I actually wonder if I'm benefiting from the opposite reaction.

Nonetheless, asking people stuff here because he's worried about downvotes isn't a behaviour I'd like to encourage

Travis J

In a way, telling him that his actions here encourage downvotes is doing that though, because he thinks that he can fix downvotes by taking action here.

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ well, I'd deal with specific issues with posts on MSE by commenting on those issues or answering.

Travis J

So long as the response wasn't solicited here.

(wasn't, sorry, typo)

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ well, my response is often go ask on MSE at this point.

Somewhat

5:29 AM

On an unrelated note: I think I made a progress: finishing a cup of coffee in 30 minutes...

Journeyman Geek

Also, there's the broader context there - that I'm basically telling him "you're going to get a better response here and elsewhere by changing your approach"

@Somewhat is that fast or slow?

Somewhat

umm, faster than this?

yesterday, by Somewhat

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I guess that explains... I finish cup of coffee in 5 hours...

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, well, changing the approach is a nice way of putting it.

@Somewhat wow... was it still coffee at that point?

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ I had a long think over another way of putting it

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Journeyman Geek

5:31 AM

and I've handled this sort of thing before, so... eh...

Travis J

I think a neutral, descriptive word for it is badgering.

Journeyman Geek

hmm.

Well, that's one of the behaviours yes

Travis J

That's the one that bothers me personally the most. I don't mind responding once. Generally I am polite, and will keep responding though. But some users just start taking advantage of the fact that I will generally respond when directly asked. At the point when my radar for feeling like I am being taken advantage of starts dinging, I feel badgered and will begin distancing myself.

Journeyman Geek

da

Metaed something general. This happens a lot in my spaces ;)

Travis J

Perhaps put chat in the title?

Journeyman Geek

5:43 AM

Well, while I specifically referenced that, my big problem is with that writeup

article?

Travis J

Still reading body

Journeyman Geek

(speaking of those sorts, I wonder what happened to Mr Pringles)

Travis J

(didn't get Mr Pringles reference)

Journeyman Geek

you wouldn't

There was this guy on root access - used to come in, ask questions, ping random people when there was no reaction...

and when we pointed him elsewhere politely would go :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

so we kinda jokingly called him mr pringles, and... ignored his questions totally

so he tried it with a sock, only... he did the same :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Travis J

lol

Okay, so the post.. It needs more direction towards how to respond without confrontation in my opinion.

While your title talks about a kinder approach, I don't see that coming across in the body. I like a lot of your post, but think that including the new COC is just asking for controversy, it is implicitly present. I think there are a lot of similarities between that post, and the chat mod post (meta.stackexchange.com/questions/270587/…) which you should differentiate from and reference.

Journeyman Geek

5:51 AM

Shouldn't that be in the answer?

Oh ya.

I can knock that out.

Travis J

This was my favorite part:

> I've always felt that moderation is about the actions and behaviours rather than the person.

Journeyman Geek

I thought that was in the Theory of moderation ._.

Might be from my days as a small site mod.

(Non SE place)

Travis J

I kind of want to answer with vampire bullet points.
- Garlic Spray Method: ....
- Silver Chain Method: ....
- Mild UV Light Method: ....
etc.

Journeyman Geek

hah

Travis J

Unfortunately, you asked a ridiculously hard question and its going to sit while most people mull it over for a while :P

Journeyman Geek

5:56 AM

I read a series about vampire hunters. One of them threatens to drag one out into the sun, chaining him to the deck of the ship they were in, and pouring gallons of holy water on em.

Travis J

Headline: crew dies of thirst after wasting all water on vampire.

Journeyman Geek

naw, they have a priest on staff so they can just make it outta sea water or something.

least I think they did in that one

Travis J

Fair enough... adds holy water to bullet list

This is kind of a timeless problem.

Journeyman Geek

Well its less the problem than how we see it.

Travis J

My answer on the chat moderation post didn't go over very well though, so I am not sure that I am the best person to pose an answer to your question now.

Journeyman Geek

6:06 AM

hah, I'm relearning how to do it so... ;)

Travis J

Although I did describe part of the issue that you observe

> The major rooms have major contributors in there, often there are users who are in the top 0.001%. The exchange was never designed to be able to specifically target users to answer questions. However, chat is misunderstood by people unfamiliar with it as a way to instantly gain access to that caliber of user directly and pose questions.

> Often people will come in to chat with an air of entitlement and immediately interrupt the discussion with a demand that their problem be addressed right now - this never goes over well.

Journeyman Geek

ah true

On the other hand, there's very few problems that you actually need a specific person to see

Travis J

I agree

That's the power of the exchange. There are so many qualified people to respond.

For the most part.

Journeyman Geek

Even if there's occationally folks who are walking encyclopedias on specific subjects

Travis J

Yeah, and if they don't respond after someone else does, it is probably because they agreed with the existing answer.

Journeyman Geek

6:08 AM

Yup

and when they do, its a mind blowing joy to read ;)

Somewhat

I have read the meta post, but I don't even know where to start, and I might be the wrong person to answer either.

On the other hand, there's Interpersonal Skills

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

I expect to be told by the person whenever they feel badgered. One reason why I continue doing what I'm doing is because I'm not told by the person I'm interacting with that they're feeling annoyed. If they don't tell me, I just think they're fine, and keep doing what I was doing.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog "told by the person"

we keep telling you people don't always do that though,

Hence me putting it across in general.

Magisch

Morning

Journeyman Geek

"Hey, so people might want to do something other than have to answer questions"

Somewhat

6:13 AM

@Magisch Dark hour

Journeyman Geek

Like talk about their tomato plants.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek I used to accept when others would say "this is annoying to that person", but after so many incidents where the other person wasn't actually annoyed even when others said so, I started doing the wrong thing and not listening. In other words, harboring distrust.

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek I made such a good pan sauce today! First success I have had with it.

Journeyman Geek

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ... could you reread that and ... consider how that dosen't quite work in public spaces?

Somewhat

@TravisJ I guess I really have to start learning to cook...

Journeyman Geek

6:15 AM

@TravisJ ... what's a pan sauce?

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek That's when you cook like steak or chicken in a pan, and then once its cooked you take the meat out and make a sauce with the leftovers in the pan.

Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat I consider being able to cook a useful survival skill

ohhh

@TravisJ ah!

We don't really do that 'traditionally' but makes sense ;)

Magisch

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Consider that asking "Are you annoyed by this" is in and of itself a loaded question

Travis J

@Somewhat Blue apron helped me with learning, but I think it might be a US only service and I am not sure if you are here or elsewhere or unicorn

Magisch

And people will say they're not when they sometimes are to avoid hurting your feelings

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

6:17 AM

@TravisJ I got Blue Apron recently.

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ one of my friends swears by it

Travis J

It's affordable, good, and kinda fun

Somewhat

@TravisJ oh, looks interesting and great idea :O

but yeah, wrong country :)

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ well, mom says the hard part is working out a menu ;)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TravisJ Costco $100 for $65 credit?

Travis J

6:18 AM

@JourneymanGeek lol

Journeyman Geek

and with something like that, you can focus on "Ok, I have a menu, lets not mess this up"

so actual cooking skills ;)

Magisch

I wouldn't say I'm good at cooking but flavorful food doesn't really do it for me anyways

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Magisch People need to understand that my feelings won't be hurt if they tell me immediately that they're annoyed. Not telling me and having me further annoy them is what gives me grief.

Travis J

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Mine is 3 2-person meals per week for $60, so that's like $10 per person for a decently fancy meal.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch more that its nice to have hot food

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog we do. A lot. But but... we rarely see change.

Magisch

6:19 AM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog It does not work that way. People have their modes of behavior like you do

Journeyman Geek

And there comes a point where if we tell you any more strictly, we end up being mean

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

For instance, I'm actually OK if people ping me with questions.

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ also, tbh, if you're willing to take the time, out here, there's excellent fresh sources of things

I'm sure that a good chunk of folks here would find a singaporean wet market one part magical, one part absolutely horrifying ;)

Somewhat

Well, there's.... cookpad.com ... 👀

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TravisJ On the same plan. But considering that meals cost lower here in Texas, $10 is too much. I didn't subscribe until Costco brought out their $100 for $65 deal.

Travis J

6:21 AM

@JourneymanGeek It comes fresh, almost all of it from local sources (there is a label which shows where each part came from). None of it is frozen or shipped very far. Also, with regards to a local market (we have farmer's markets here) it is still hard to know what menu to prepare :P

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

That said, that deal has expired...but if you do plan on being subscribed for longer, they still have a $100 credit for $80 deal

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ see? Hard part ;p

and my mom's very big on the "this goes with this..."

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

You can buy up to 5 and it will reduce per-meal costs to $8

Journeyman Geek

so we wouldn't have say eggplant and potato in the same meal

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TravisJ Mine's shipped from Dallas

Journeyman Geek

6:22 AM

But she's oldschool ;)

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek Your mom knows her stuff :D If I have to make my own stuff I always end up just making some version of steak, starch, and greens.

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ hah, I'm roughly the same when i cook myself

Travis J

Not exactly ideal on a daily basis though

Journeyman Geek

rice, stuff so rice isn't boring... ;)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TravisJ Too bad I couldn't make one of the recipes that came in last week's package. One of the sauce containers was broken open due to shipping damage and it spread throughout the entire "knick-knack" pouch.

Journeyman Geek

6:24 AM

or pasta

(the one thing no one in my family quite can get right, but they feel I undercook it ;) )

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek see: blueapron.com/pages/sample-recipes

Journeyman Geek

why?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JourneymanGeek Example recipes from Blue Apron

Travis J

I can make the blue apron pasta dishes in like 15 minutes :) Those are by far the easiest ones to do I think

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ oh I have been trying to get this specific sauce working - its basically a fake cheese sauce with nutritional yeast

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

6:25 AM

The recipes are actually fully public; you only need the subscription if you want the ingredients shipped

Journeyman Geek

its super tasty. I just cannot get it to work wihout a small amount of canned pasta sauce in it

(at least I added it both times it emulsified properly)

Somewhat

and searching "newbie" on my local Cookpad returned suggested keyword: "failproof donut for newbie" ._.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TravisJ Out of curiosity, did you hear about Blue Apron by watching Wendover Productions' videos?

Travis J

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I started Blue Apron from a friend giving me like 2 months of free meals 4 years ago.

@JourneymanGeek Sounds complicated.

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ not really

its just pasta water, olive oil and nutritional yeast

it kinda emulsifies into something like cheese sauce

Its really good if you like nutrional yeast. Which I am.

I also top toast with it and oil and it forms a really nice crusty topping

Travis J

6:32 AM

Instead of canned pasta sauce, you can get canned tomato paste, and it will have the same effect

Journeyman Geek

Well, its more what's causing the effect

If its the acid, I could try a hit of lemon.

not sure what I can do if its a small amount of pectin of some sort

Travis J

I suck at the chemistry angle of cooking :(

Journeyman Geek

;)

Most people either are clueless or go into the crazy levels of sciencing

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Non-latin link in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Display comments from a Facebook page link on my site's post page by بانه on webmasters.SE

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek I understand the physics of cooking :P

Journeyman Geek

6:35 AM

I cook by smell and instinct ;)

Somewhat

Sometimes instinct rules though...

Magisch

Lurking tim :D

Journeyman Geek

I literally go sniff it needs more sniff sniff and adding stuff ;)

ALSO HELPS my mom is traditional and I have various spice mixes to misuse ;)

@Magisch everyone knows you lure CMs out of hiding by talking about cooking ;)

Magisch

indeed

Journeyman Geek

for example - I tend to like pepper with mushrooms. My mom's "regular" rasam mix is pepper based and works well

but is a little more complex

on the other hand, we also have a chilli based mix that's more of a "udipi" styled one that works well with some other stuff

Magisch

6:41 AM

When I usually do my "midweek all my monday greens which are about to expire + eggs omelet amalgamation" I usually use pepper and some chilli

Journeyman Geek

Or compunded chilli powder

its rough ground lentils and chilly and is the "I have no idea what I'm doing, lets throw some of this in and it handles spice, and salt and I cannot mess this up" condiment

Travis J

For chili flavor I tend to paprika + cayenne + ancho

Journeyman Geek

odd thing with indians...

we don't really have much idea what variety chillis are

Travis J

Recently my favorite flavor to go to has been bulgogi though, which is soy + ginger + sesame oil + garlic ( optionally + sambal oelek )

Journeyman Geek

for dried its "The round ones" or "the flat ones"

Travis J

6:43 AM

@JourneymanGeek lol

Journeyman Geek

and when we buy fresh - I sometimes go "Moooom, the chillis are different!"

cause there's a specific variety we usually get

Travis J

Yeah, I can relate to that. I really enjoy fresh Jalapenos, and different varieties aren't really the same.

Journeyman Geek

... oh yeah

are there two types of chillis called that?

cause they sell these big fat fairly mild ones

and these small ones that are hotter

both called Jalapenos ._.

Travis J

lol, the big ones are called anaheim chiles (if slightly green), or ancho/pablano chiles (if dark green)

They are milder in flavor

Journeyman Geek

ahh

We make a pickle with Jalepenos, the small hot ones and a few other things

its one of my favourite things ;p

Travis J

6:48 AM

Yeah, that sounds awesome

Journeyman Geek

uses dried mango powder, cumin and some other spices.

Its oil based though, which is probably a bit alien to y'all

Travis J

If they are real small and orange, they are habanero (which are kinda pretty spicy)

Journeyman Geek

naw, very small and green

smooth ones

Travis J

Yeah, Jalapeno for sure. Such a nice flavor

Journeyman Geek

I'll take a photo if we make another batch and I remember ;)

Travis J

6:49 AM

Okay :D

Journeyman Geek

oh these tend to give up heat so they kinda spice up the pickle base too

Travis J

Most of our pickling uses vinegar I believe

Journeyman Geek

This is oil and a spice slurry

Travis J

Hm, oil does pick up spice flavor pretty easily, but I didn't know you could pickle with oil

(then again, my cooking chemistry sucks)

Journeyman Geek

oh also more of a tradition

there's almost no acid or lactofermenting tradition in the south

There's yogurt based pickles ( subbuskitchen.com/mahali-root-sarasaparilla-curd-pickle for example )

yummyoyummy.com/2012/03/… these are almost like lactofermented - the baby mangos are sour, and the perfect pickle is crunchy at first then shrinks as it ages...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aavakaaya is the 'classic' oil based pickle

Its an andra tradition but we stole it ;)

Somewhat

6:54 AM

Capsicum annuum var. glabriusculum

Capsicum annuum var. glabriusculum is a variety of Capsicum annuum that is native to southern North America and northern South America. Common names include chiltepin, Indian pepper, chiltepe, and chile tepin, as well as turkey, bird’s eye, or simply bird peppers, due to their consumption and spread by wild birds. Tepin is derived from a Nahuatl word meaning "flea". This variety is the most likely progenitor of the domesticated C. annuum var. annuum. Another similar-sized pepper 'Pequin' (also called 'Piquin') is often confused, the Tepin fruit is round to oval and the Pequin is oval with a point...

?

Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat looks like it maybe

but bird's eye chillis here are chilli padi ;p

Somewhat

Ah, right, also our country's fave...

Journeyman Geek

List of Capsicum cultivars

This is a list of Capsicum cultivars belonging to the five major species of cultivated peppers (genus Capsicum): C. annuum, C. chinense, C. baccatum, C. frutescens, and C. pubescens. Due to the large and changing number of cultivars, and the variation of cultivar namings in different regions, this list only gives a few examples of the estimated 50,000 pepper varieties that exist. == Capsicum species == There are perhaps fifty thousand Capsicum cultivars grown worldwide. The USDA-ARS GRIN seed collection contains 6,200 Capsicum accessions alone, which include 4000 Capsicum annuum accessions. The...

the early jalepeno there looks 'right'

Somewhat

On a related note about my previous unrelated note: I think I really have a problem with caffeine... 2 hours after finishing the coffee, my head felt heavy...

Journeyman Geek

0_0

That's not what caffeine should do

Unless you're having a crash. And the cure is ~~more cowbell~~ more coffee?

Travis J

7:08 AM

Probably means you need sleep

Journeyman Geek

or that

Travis J

or cowbell

Journeyman Geek