Tavern on the Meta

12:05 AM

@πάνταῥεῖ @Fabby I don't think ROs can do anything about smokey. I'm not on that list either!

@JourneymanGeek .... Technically, at least on Chat.se, you should be... all mods are by default. Being added to it in here requires asking in Charcoal.

Journeyman Geek

@Catija ah

Still technically accurate and I thiiiiiink me and now mith are the only mod/tavern ROs

Anyway ya. ^ what cat said :p

Journeyman Geek

12:28 AM

@Fabby a better analogy would be teenage babysitters babysitting teens :p

Somewhat

1:30 AM

Morning...

and happy new year~

Journeyman Geek

2:42 AM

Oh, its nothing much but I'm not feeling that well and will not be at my computer for much of the day. However, if its an emergency, or well, something that concerns me, just ping me, and I'll see what I can do about it ;)

(sinus is acting up, and I woke up with an epic sore eye that's slowly getting better)

Somewhat

Get well soon :(

Journeyman Geek

3:42 AM

Its better than it was this morning

I could use some allergy meds but I'm out. The OTC stuff works well enough (This is not the first time, and its in between the sort that basically makes my day a living hell, and the sort that self resolves 20 minutes after I get out of bed sooooo)

rene

6:14 AM

@πάνταῥεῖ @Fabby only SOCVR has the rule that RO's need to approve SD privileges. So for The Tavern all you need is ~~beg~~ ask for SD privileges in Charcoal HQ. They will create a PR to add your MSE userid to the rooms.yml (or create the PR yourself and ask a dev to pull)

→ 39 messages moved to Chimney

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer: Why do guys in anime often lack nipples? by Politics on anime.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted username: Forklifts Pakistan | Forklifts Rental Pakistan | Forklifts Suppliers in Pakistan by autolinkpk on mathoverflow.net

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

6:37 AM

@Somewhat you are bit late but thanks! ;)

@JourneymanGeek ouch... Better now? Can you go to work?

Magisch

morning

Travis J

o/

Still night here ;)

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch And a good morning to you in here too :)

@TravisJ Are you up late or early?

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell Late I guess. I mean, it's only 11:30pm so, it's almost morning :)

Tinkeringbell

@TravisJ Eh? Doesn't morning start at 6am, afternoon at 12pm, evening at 6pm and night at 12 am? :D

So it's not even night there, it's still evening :P

Journeyman Geek

6:45 AM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard night shift. If I'm too out of it I'll let the other locations know and ask them to cover me

Travis J

Well, if I were to say "it's 1 in the morning", that would generally refer to 1 am. Morning technically starts at 0:00 and goes until 12:00 at which point it becomes afternoon. I think that "night" is technically accurate so long as the sun is down.

Journeyman Geek

It's happened before

I do feel a bit better

Travis J

Would an all caps "you're healed" help? Maybe with some bold, and italics?

I hear that used to help a long time ago

Journeyman Geek

Lol

Trust in God and take your meds :)

Just picked up the otc allergy stuff that worked before

Travis J

Allegra D?

Journeyman Geek

6:50 AM

It's too damned bright tho

Claritin. Same idea

Travis J

Bright problem solved. #jQuery

Journeyman Geek

Sadly jQuery does not solve all problems... Actually now I have it being too bright and jQuery

Funny thing is how I have a random allergy that only affects one eye

Travis J

I'm sure you will complete the set if you keep at it :)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: what is paper wallet by Icolist on mathoverflow.net

rene

7:09 AM

delv-pls 20K code meta.stackexchange.com/q/315309/158100 /cc @JourneymanGeek @Bart @ShadowtheWelcomingWizard @TravisJ (needs 1 more)

Travis J

✅

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ I have had this happen 2 to 3 times a year. Same eye

Mostly clears up in 30 minutes or so

Travis J

Could be related to sleeping position.

Journeyman Geek

Happened a lot at the 3d studio so I always figured it was something there

Maybe

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

7:26 AM

@Tinkeringbell for the kids night starts at 9 PM. ;)

But they do know that a day ends at 12 AM, then new day starts. (and Hebrew day ends when three stars are out 🌟 🌟 🌟)

Magisch

Is there any site mod here that can help me with a small experiment?

doesn't matter which site

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch sure

Magisch

I need you to decline 2 comment flags from me

Can you give me a topic where I can flag 2 comments and you decline the flags?

Journeyman Geek

superuser.com/a/1356872/10165 would work

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek flagged top 2

let me know when you declined

Journeyman Geek

7:38 AM

dismissed both

Travis J

Is this to test the new auto ban for when you get 2 declined flags on New contributor comments?

Magisch

No

Travis J

(just kidding) :P

Magisch

I wanted to see if it warns me if I have 2 declined comment flags without having any other helpful flags that week

Like it does for post flags

Journeyman Geek

8:05 AM

ahh

Might have been worth metaing lol, if you had a good reason to ask

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek I did use it as part of formulating my answer on Yvette's meta FR: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/315216/…

Journeyman Geek

ah hah!

Oh well, carry on ;)

Magisch

Flag summary is almost impossible to find on your own btw

Journeyman Geek

And well, that's actually a good point to make

and cough no one ever looks at it ;)

I don't

Magisch

You have to guess that that is somehow clickable

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

8:11 AM

@Magisch only in your own profile, yeah

Magisch

yah

Fabby

@JourneymanGeek Once you become a mod, a Team Lead, A Manager, that's what you actually are: a babysitter.

;-)

Magisch

And the hover over tooltip says "Total flags marked useful" or something like that

No indication something like a flag summary exists

Fabby

@rene Going there now...

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

@Magisch feature request waiting to be asked... ;)

Magisch

8:17 AM

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I rolled that into my answer to yvette's feature request

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

@Magisch it surely deserves its own feature request, as answer it has 0 chance to be ever fixed.

(as new request it spikes to 0.0001% ;))

Magisch

Pretty sure a normal feature request has the same 0% chance with added difficulty that staff is never going to even read it. At least Yvette's has some staff attention

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

Staff see all feature requests. They just don't act upon (m)any of them.

Journeyman Geek

@Fabby a Mod is an adult baby sitter ;)

Magisch

8:32 AM

@JourneymanGeek some of our mods aren't adults yet though

side eying @mith

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch So maybe mods are baby adult sitters sometimes? :P

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body: Печать PDF файла, несколько страниц на листе C# by Юрик Тао on ru.stackoverflow.com

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard Which three? Just the first 3 to randomly appear? :)

rene

@Magisch some of us reached the adult age but beyond that ....

Tinkeringbell

@rene Some? :P

rene

8:39 AM

I don't want to get banned for stating a subtle put-down by generalizing a whole group ...

Tinkeringbell

Ehhh. I'd say people have grown a little too scared. :)

That's a generalization, and I stand by it :)

Fabby

And it's correct too: as long as the generalisation contains 80% of the population, it's a good generalisation

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tinkeringbell

Oh... I meant to ask... [OoO] < What does that look like?

It's reminding me of something but I don't know what

Fabby

Out of Office? the three-breasted woman from Total Recall? The trhee-eyed fish from the Simpsons? (that was later found to exist)

Tinkeringbell

@Fabby The OoO is an abbreviation used in our project. the [] are added onto each JIRA item. But I just spent an entire sprint planning session (1,5 hours) wondering what it reminded me of :P

@Fabby It's not three-somethings... I see two eyes and a round nose, but I don't know where I've seen it before :P

Journeyman Geek

8:46 AM

@Magisch well in a sense, we have the ability to handle more things on our own and a much clearer idea of what is expected of us

The position power helps too,

Magisch

Didn't mean that as a perjorative

Fabby

I'm sorry: I can do some white magic, but hooking up your brain to mine and FTP everything over and do a grep is black magic and even beyond me! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Magisch

You certainly need an adult mentality to be a successful moderator

Fabby

@JourneymanGeek Power corrupts.

@Magisch let me add, without losing your sense of wonder...

Journeyman Geek

More meant that in more ways, folks see us as peers and sometimes when we actually use our responsibility, it's annoying

@Fabby true. Hence me trying to use soft power first

Fabby

8:49 AM

@JourneymanGeek Telepathy. I was just writing that.

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

@Tinkeringbell I... Think so. Never bothered to actually read or learn about it, just something I was told at some point. :)

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Excuse me? :P

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard I'll go google it later ;)

It's an interesting concept

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

I believe @Mithrandir knows better.

Fabby

the problem is when you befriend a mod first somewhere else, then join their community, and then do something stupid...

That's when it becomes annoying! :D :D: :D

Journeyman Geek

Well if you think about it - you can ask a friend to stop doing something and they can listen

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

8:51 AM

@Fabby kick by a friend hurts more.

kicking @Fab

Journeyman Geek

I rarely need the mod hat

Fabby

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard :D

Magisch

A lot of moderation is exercising soft power

If you're generally known for being reasonable your words can carry more weight then a banhammer or kick ever could.

Journeyman Geek

Yup

And those things have more weight used appropriately

Fabby

That's one way of doing it. Some take the Nazi approach: be a stickler for the rules, come down hard and don't let anything slip through your fingers...

(luckily ~~not too much~~ none of that going on here on the SE network)

Magisch

8:55 AM

Be careful with invoking godwins law here :p

Journeyman Geek

Well the problem with a purely authoritarian moderation style is well...

Tinkeringbell

@Fabby That's kinda proven impossible. If I wanted to do that, I'd have to be online and modding a lot more ;)

Journeyman Geek

It dosen't really scale on the internet

People can leave easily

Magisch

Moderation on SE relies on the consent and help of the users a LOT more then anywhere else

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Magisch

8:57 AM

The only way SE scales as it does is if the common regular users understand and help with the direction of moderation. No site mods have enough time and manpower to manually police even their regulars in the day-to-day

Journeyman Geek

Yup

Travis J

In some ways yes, in some no.

Any definition of moderation which has problems will have those issues amplified by the community as well; mostly by common regular users who "understand" the direction of moderation.

Mithrandir24601

@Magisch Oy! I officially started adulting several years ago apparently! :P

Travis J

I am more and more coming to believe that this is the case with certain aspects of the current set of close reasons.

Magisch

@Mithrandir24601 I meant the other mith

Mithrandir24601

9:01 AM

@Magisch Ahh, you're ruining my fun :/ :P

Magisch

A mithake, that ping was

I accidentally mithpinged you because I didn't spell out the name completly

:D

Mithrandir24601

Yep but Mithtakes are the best takes

@Magisch Yeah, I'm used to people doing it by now - I'll occasionally respond when I see an opportunity to do so with comedic effect

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ which is one reason its useful to have a core set of users who 'get' it

On SU, a lot of the chat regulars are super awesome sounding boards

and we have ways for people to talk to us (SU Moderators have a room people can often find us specifically on)

Tinkeringbell

IPS chat is kinda deserted lately. Guess everyone is busy with work/school or something :/

Journeyman Geek

:/

@Tinkeringbell I swear most of the chat here's been about moderation lately lol

Mithrandir24601

9:05 AM

@Tinkeringbell :/ I should pop back in there again sometime and see how things are going

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek That's okay, I'm learning a lot from that :)

Bart

@JourneymanGeek moderation chat should happen in moderation.

Journeyman Geek

@Bart IKR?

I'm not sure if its the current crowd or current/recent events ;p

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir24601 Right now, there's not much going on... which is kinda sad, there's enough to do :P

I'll try and get them working on the site again, instead of just chattering ;)

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Site itself seems to be winding down quite a bit. 4.4 QPD atm

Tinkeringbell

9:07 AM

@Magisch Yeah, not strange considering we close about 90 percent of em. :/

Bart

@JourneymanGeek Maybe I should start swinging my smiting stick around a bit more to get this room into shape again.

Journeyman Geek

@Bart heh, hopefully that's a process that's started

Tinkeringbell

But the questions lately haven't been 'good' :/ And I dunno what to do about it

@Bart Is that that stick that I wasn't afraid of? :P

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell well, you guys do have the problem of a somewhat... well unusual scope for a SE site

Somewhat

@ShadowtheWelcomingWizard actually I was talking about this instead:

Muharram

Muḥarram (Arabic: مُحَرَّم‎ muḥarram) is the first month of the Islamic calendar. It is one of the four sacred months of the year. It is held to be the holiest month, Ramadan coming after. The word "Muharram" means "forbidden". Since the Islamic calendar is a lunar calendar, Muharram moves from year to year when compared with the Gregorian calendar. The tenth day of Muharram is known as the Day of Ashura, part of the Mourning of Muharram for Shia Muslims and a day of fasting for Sunni Muslims. The practice of fasting during Ashura stems from the hadith that Musa (Moses) and his people obtained...

Tinkeringbell

9:07 AM

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I know.

Bart

@Tinkeringbell there's no need for fear when there's nothing you can do to avoid its consequences ... :p

Somewhat

that's the reason I stated

yesterday, by Somewhat

there'll be another New Year 2 days later...

Journeyman Geek

And its one of those sites where I think a lot of people get more from chat than the site.

Magisch

We dropped from 5.9 QPD in July to 4.9 in August to 3.8 in September so far.

Journeyman Geek

Myself included lol

(I have no idea how I'd even ask my current IPS style stuff as a question ._.)

Magisch

9:10 AM

Me neither. I'm pretty lost on how to formulate something into on topic

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah. I think things picked up a little when we introduced the Sandbox, but that seems deserted now too...

Magisch

people seem to have different standards for what can and can't be asked too

Journeyman Geek

And I mainly chat when people ask these days lol

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Thing is, our criteria for closing and not closing isn't very clear

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch well, its subjective by nature

Tinkeringbell

9:10 AM

@Magisch Yep, if anyone has any ideas on how to fix that, I'm open to hearing them...

Somewhat

and so... since I was gone this morning... trying to catch up the convo since morning...

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell a useful starting point would be actually great IPS questions

and work from there

Tinkeringbell

I think we've had more people answering quickly than carefully considering the questions lately :/ Seems to me there might be a new batch of people with privileges that doesn't know/want to know what to do...

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell no clue. I'm lost between what's phrasing requests, what's "how to" and whatever else

It seems like the evolution of what's on topic left me behind

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek I've tried asking one lately. I thought it wasn't bad, but seeing the answers I got... :/

Journeyman Geek

9:12 AM

@Tinkeringbell well, why are the answers bad?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Hmmm...

Magisch

Like this for instance:

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Not taking culture into account, calling me an entitled brat... Not written from any experience. I just got a lot of opinions on what I did, instead of answers on what I can change next time I want to do the same thing.

Magisch

@Cesare, you did but unfortunately you asked something very opinion based and also "What should I do?". Both are considered not on topic for the site. You can take a look at the help center for some guidance on how to form your question so it fits the site and people can help you — Ontamu 1 hour ago

I mean yeah, but that's a lot of really complicated fine-tuning division for a new user to grasp

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell ahh

Magisch

9:13 AM

completly hopeless

Journeyman Geek

ugh

rene

Interpersonal Skills is done. We have asked everything that you can possibly want to know. We live in peace happily ever after ...

Journeyman Geek

that's a really hard problem

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, I've seen those lately, I'm not fond of saying 'drop into the help center'. Why not think for yourself and point out what can be asked? :/

Journeyman Geek

@rene well "Its not working out" is one option - buuuut

Magisch

9:14 AM

tbh I think our on topic guidance is wishy washy at best

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Yep, especially since I basically botched the last push for back up

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell from whom?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch True, we might want to revisit the help center text..

Magisch

I'm like the #15th highest user by rep on the site and I couldn't tell you what's OT and what isn't in corner cases

And finding out seems tedious even for someone who's read meta for months

Which translates into "utterly impossible" for new users and into "angry my Q got closed for seemingly no reason" as well

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

@Somewhat oh, wasn't aware of that! Happy New Year!

Tinkeringbell

9:16 AM

@JourneymanGeek Who the push came from? I think apaul started it. After the umptieth LGBT question got more opinions than answers

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell ah

Now, SU has an entirely different scope from you guys but we've had a few situations where there was a major change in what was acceptable

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah. I think someone made a good comment on my FAQ question on meta: We NEED a definition of what Interpersonal Skills are.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell and what a question should be!

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/3224/1599 That should probably be added there then?

Somewhat

Interpersonal skills are.... skills that are not intrapersonal :(

Tinkeringbell

9:18 AM

@Somewhat Actually, I've used two defnitions so far:

Journeyman Geek

L@Tinkeringbell rather than teling you what to do... ;p

I'm going to go "hey...so"

Tinkeringbell

> Interpersonal Skills are goal-directed behaviors, including communication and relationship-building competencies, employed in interpersonal interaction episodes characterized by complex perceptual and cognitive processes, dynamic verbal and nonverbal interaction exchanges, diverse roles, motivations and expectancies. (the more scientific definition)

Journeyman Geek

Software recommendations were on topic on SU and well at some point we decided they were not.

Tinkeringbell

> the ability to communicate or interact well with other people. (google's summary)

Journeyman Geek

It was difficult to actually not have any answers recommending software

Magisch

9:20 AM

I think we need a lot simpler rules

And more leeway

Journeyman Geek

so our community sorted it out by going "so, this is how you recommend software" meta.superuser.com/questions/5329/…

Something like that might help

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek The issue is that, the group that gets it is the core group causing the problems. Mostly because the understanding put forth was slightly flawed, and it is just now over time becoming more and more obvious.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I'm not so sure. We already have sooo many off-topic, deleted, bad answers... Having a wider scope with more leeway will only make that worse. TBH, I don't like saying it about 'my' site, but I'm hesitant to ask questions there, knowing that I probably won't get 'answers'

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ well never too late to actually try to clarify

especially if its a nudge rather than a shove

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I reckon on my one question about apologizing I got 2 decent answers, 5 "You don't need to apologize" and 2-3 people accusing me of warcrimes

Tinkeringbell

9:22 AM

@JourneymanGeek We have posts like that, 'this is how you write from experience', 'this is how you ask for clarification or suggest an improvement in a comment'....

Travis J

Agree. However, seeing as how entrenched the situation is, there needs to be a lot of logic and facts to back up the reasons for clarification.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell so.. the next step is when a post is not up to scratch, for the community to start using them

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, if anything, I don't see 'more leeway' fixing anything until we've got the answers in line...

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell The answers will never get in line

We have a harder version of what TWP has been suffering from for years

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell Have you read Jon Skeet's "How to ask"? (I know it is tech based, but the broader points are relevant across the exchange)

Tinkeringbell

9:23 AM

@JourneymanGeek Trying too. The 'core' users of IPS are sooo very little though, compared to everyone using the site :/

So, I could jump in and close every question singlehandedly, point to the guidelines, and not get any work done for the day

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I'd say there's 20-30 core users on SU ;p

Tinkeringbell

I don't like closing questions and not working with people to create a better one

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Add to that that closing before answers come in blatantly doesn't work with so few people who actively close

Journeyman Geek

There's one I am hoping finds our way into chat - she's actually "getting" how the site works VERY well

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Hmmm. Maybe we should have this discussion again in TAS :P

We're probably boring the room here, and it gives others a chance to jump in as well...

Journeyman Geek

9:28 AM

lol

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell Not bored. I have been on this topic for about 10 days now.

Journeyman Geek

Its fine IMO, other than that its more for getting an "external" perspective ;)

Tinkeringbell

@TravisJ IPS scope problems? Where? :P

@JourneymanGeek Kay :)

Somewhat

(done catching up the convo... apparently it's more about QPD, new user, help center, site scope, IPS...)

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell Scope problems at Stack Overflow as a result of the current set of close reasons. By expansion as IPS is part of Stack ~~Overflow~~ Exchange, you inherited many of the default close reasons, and by relation, many of the issues that face Stack Overflow.

Tinkeringbell

9:30 AM

@TravisJ Hmm. I don't think the default close-reasons are a problem (yet) on IPS. We're struggling more with 'what makes a question and what not'

and 'why haven't people closed this yet'

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: Viper4android FX Apk Install Guide On Any Android by Diana Goodrich on android.SE

Tinkeringbell

and 'How is this an answer?!?'

Magisch

You have a 1 vote close and 1 vote delete at your fingertips

If users won't, you can

Journeyman Geek

@terdon SO also has the issue of having a ton of "historical"
baggage and one heck of a huge userbase

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell "What makes a question" is defined by the topicality of the site. Your site came with a default topicality.

Tinkeringbell

9:32 AM

@Magisch True. But say I close 5 posts immediately. I'd feel I have the responsibility to work with those 5 users to get their questions reopened.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Why? Anyone can reopen the questions

5 users can undo your close vote

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell well, not really, though I tend to sometimes ignore stuff I know the community will close

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch So, boom, close. You get no comment, and will have to wait until some nice community member reads my mind? :P

Magisch

if OP edits after closing, it even goes into the reopen queue

Journeyman Geek

or cough yanno, guys "I wouldn't mind if people CVed that"

Magisch

9:33 AM

The threshold for someone commenting is 1 user, closing by user hand is 5

Journeyman Geek

or wait for someone to comment then close

@Tinkeringbell would you comment if you did it as a normal user?

Tinkeringbell

Also, we get a lot of false positives in the reopen queue: People don't see there's still requests for more details in the comments, so an edit that does effectively no more than change the title might get reopened :/

Journeyman Geek

Are you averse to scripted comments?

Magisch

That's just a failing of the technical design of the reopen queue

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Yes. And scripted comments are okay, but they aren't very helpful for individual advice on how to improve a question

SmokeDetector

9:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Mtk Flash Tool Connection error by Diana Goodrich on android.SE

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell - What is the primary reason used for closure at IPS?

Magisch

A lot would be helped if mods consistently finished off questions that already have CVs and comments

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell true

I don't use em

Magisch

I guess. But depending on CM opinion that might be outside of mod mandate

Journeyman Geek

I think David tends to use them extensively

Travis J

9:35 AM

Scripted comments don't really help the OP.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title: www.osbgolfheightssector69.i by Signature Global sector 79 on graphicdesign.SE

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch if they didn't want us to closehammer things, they wouldn't force us to closehammer or do nothing ;)

Cause literally every new mod goes "Oh crud, I can't just gently closevote any more"

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek Inherently, most users realize some of the close reasons are improper at the moment.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I could try that.

Travis J

No one worries about closing questions which are clearly garbage. Opinionated is rather easy. Unclear is easy at times. Clearly off scope is easy. But when you close someone's question as being "too broad", in general, you probably know that it looks bad and would like to have 4 other conspirators to point the finger at.

The set of close reasons almost literally define how welcoming the site is. No matter how friendly you are, removing someone's content causes friction - removing content which had no reason being removed causes the decline of the site. Nothing gets rid of experts faster than reducing the areas in which they can contribute.

SmokeDetector

9:40 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: PLC - get absolute value of number when the CPU has no "ABS" instruction by yaseen on electronics.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Modify Blog Module layout in Child theme by google on wordpress.SE

Somewhat

@SmokeDetector wtf

SmokeDetector

@Somewhat Post - Username google similar to google at position 23-29, ratio=1.0

rene

lol

Somewhat

huh, lol

Travis J

Someone spamming a google.com link? ... that's a new one

rene

9:44 AM

probably to increase their SEO in Bing ...

Travis J

Bing? Never heard of it

Was that like Alta Vista?

Tinkeringbell

@TravisJ I think IPS is struggling with a lack of 'experts' and a whole bunch of people that have opinions ;) I'd love to have some more 'experts' whatever defines an expert on IPS > maybe that's just someone who consistently answers from expertise...

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Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell what's an IPS expert? ;p

Somewhat

Jack Ma, wait, wrong skill...

Travis J

9:47 AM

An IPS expert would probably be someone in PR, or at the very least who studied a high level of Comm at a University.

Somewhat

an IPS expert is... someone who never gonna give someone up...

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Well, there's this online newspaper, nu.nl. Once every 2? weeks, they run really neat articles on e.g. group whatsapp etiquette, where they have 2/3 'etiquette teachers' answer questions about how to behave on a group whatsapp

They don't really make good questions for IPS, but I'd say those people, that actually teach other people how to 'interact well' can be considered 'experts'

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell why would they hang out on IPS? ;p

Tinkeringbell

@TravisJ I didn't do either, yet I've found I could answer a lot of questions from 'expertise'... instead of just 'opinion'

@JourneymanGeek Hopefully to answer questions, but there aren't any questions for them to answer. I know the site has a problem :P

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

@Tinkeringbell "place for dramatic stories?" :)

Somewhat

9:53 AM

> Interpersonal Skills is my new favourite Stack Exchange site. People have a lot of weird concerns... - twitter.com/karltryggvason/status/931564049774579712

Shadow the Welcoming Wizard

But yeah any site can use a clear definition, I think many lack that.

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell I have ran ad campaigns before, and took some Business Communications courses some years back. One issue is that the community at IPS is primarily composed of programmers, and their versions of what IPS should be. #brogrammer #jquery #firstworldproblems

Mostly, I would also assume there is maybe one trained expert at IPS who was properly trained in how to deal with people with special needs. Maybe. Sometimes having actual science to back up situations makes a whole world of difference when it comes to behavior.

Tinkeringbell

@TravisJ Yep. The problem is that IPS answer can't be put through a compiler and get a 'this works' or 'this doesn't compile' :/

@TravisJ Yep, there's a lot of opinion on how to deal with it, but not much people even take the time to do a simple scholar.google and look for a source or two that may back up their experience :/

rene

@TravisJ nothing has come close to Alta Vista ...

Travis J

@Tinkeringbell That would solve so many problems in the world though, if there were always a mathematically proven solution to every IPS situation.

@rene lol :)

Somewhat

9:57 AM

@TravisJ you mean, Suicide Prevention Lifeline?

Tinkeringbell

I've started writing answers from experience a few times, but scratched them when I found sources/statistics didn't match up to my way of experiencing the world

Travis J

@Somewhat Uhm, I would assume those people are trained professionals (I would hope). Never really called it... However, just because people have special needs doesn't mean they are suicidal... that's kinda wrong on a lot of different levels.

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Somewhat

Sorry, my message certainly came out too strong, but I'd imagine that kind of trained pros, and umm... psychologist? Experts? Intrpersonal?

Travis J

A psychologist would certainly do well there I would assume.

Tinkeringbell

10:03 AM

@TravisJ I think we had one claiming to be just that and they didn't do too well :/

rene

last line is relevant replace flying with moderation

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Tinkeringbell

Also, the dangers of being a psychologist or something is that people start 'diagnosing' either the asker or the people they're interacting with. Which isn't really helpful.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell or stated as a replicable process

Somewhat

@rene "moderating your aircraft" umm, okay...

Travis J

10:06 AM

@Tinkeringbell Also, as previously noted, the community is composed of programmers ;)

Journeyman Geek

My problems are unique and different even from someone with the same cultural background

(or say my brother)

@Tinkeringbell on the other hand

Workplace has many similar issues - so... I guess you can make it work somehow

Somewhat

almost punny...

Travis J

I would imagine there is a decent amount of overlap there

Journeyman Geek

@Somewhat wasn't even intentional

Travis J

Interpersonal Skills at the Workplace™

Somewhat

10:09 AM

Interpersonal Skills at the Academia™

(looks like my brain is in bad condition in attempting to humoring... I'll take a step back from this room for now...)

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, there's an overlap there ;)

rene

@Somewhat hey, I'm trying to bring something useful ... I accept that often fails ...

Tinkeringbell

The problem with Interpersonal Skills probably is that there's ways of 'solving' that don't revolve around Interpersonal Skills (they would be okay on Workplace or Academia)... So we have that to 'fix' too.

Although I wonder if a solution that bypasses Workplace or Academia would be okay on both those sites