Tavern on the Meta

2:01 PM

@Derpy yup

@Derpy Or something like that chrome t-rex game for when the internet is down ;) A game you can only play when SE isn't available :P

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch shoggifying the form data, of course.

Derpy

@Tinkeringbell I have actually considered the idea of trying to make a Doom 2 mod that replaces DoomGuy face with shog one... ^_^'

Tinkeringbell

@Derpy Hahaha fan-art? :P I never played Doom, so I don't really know what to expect :P

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell funny fact: my kids brought my attention to that game, had no idea it exists. And they often ask to disable internet so they can play it... ;)

Tinkeringbell

2:05 PM

@ShadowWizard Hahaha. I got pretty good at it during train rides with no internet

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell badass guy shooting monsters.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Don't shoot shog.... that's not nice

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell yeah... Think I reached 2000 or so, 2 full cycles. And probably it is really low. :)

Derpy

@ShadowWizard wayou.github.io/t-rex-runner

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell shog will be the beholder, the thoughest monster.. When killed it explodes as far as I remember. Kind of rage quit.... ;)

Derpy

2:09 PM

@Tinkeringbell ^ you see the head in the center of the GUI? That is the protagonist face

image having shog in its place

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek oh.. "Let off steam" then. Yeah, we all need it, and those working directly with other people and confronting others as part of their job need it much more.

Tinkeringbell

@Derpy Why though :P

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard yup

Tinkeringbell

SE is gamified, so Shog already has their own game!

Derpy

another idea could be a JNat megaman game sprite hack.

Shadow Wizard

2:14 PM

@Derpy oh thought you meant replacing this cute thing with Shog:

It is a floating head

With magic powers

:D

Derpy

that is a cyberpunk version of a beholder.

shog deserves protagonist role

Tim Post

I could probably code up a mod that added shog as a NPC in Minecraft. A villager that's as likely to teleport you 100 meters straight up (even into solid rock) as he is to offer a stack of diamonds for an apple.

Derpy

@TimPost I always though shog was already in Minecraft, just being called Herobrine instead for legal reasons....

Tim Post

It would actually be kinda fun to make a SE mod for Minecraft. Tavern villagers just follow you around and occasionally write "that looks suboptimal" in chat when you're looking at anything resembling redstone.

2

PHP villagers appear whenever you open anything and close it immediately before punching you

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Do we do that?

Derpy

2:33 PM

in the meantime, I think this project I am working on will indeed yield me the "Never Again" quirk...

Aaron Hall

Insensitive behavior is not entirely the dominion of men. I think this question would be improved by removing the assumption that denigrating terminology that indicates the male gender is not offensive. It is offensive, as it discriminates against men. — Aaron Hall 4 mins ago

Journeyman Geek

@AaronHall some of the other comments 0_0

Aaron Hall

didn't read any

Magisch

@TimPost real talk, would SE come after me if I made a minecraft SE mod and made it available on curse?

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch with dogs? ;p

Aaron Hall

2:52 PM

I'm inclined to flag this:

in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 6 hours ago, by Mari-Lou A

[cont'd] A word like the N-word is clearly racist, and calling someone "retarded" is highly offensive but even more so when the person being bullied has impaired intelligence development. But "manspreading" I believed was lighthearted, it doesn't insult all men, it doesn't insult someone's mental capacities, or their culture or the colour of their skin. I realize now, it is very insulting to rude and selfish men, and some men object to the term.

I think this is a troll.

Tim Post

@Magisch No.

Magisch

Now I'm tempted

Tempted to install the IDE again and setup gradle

Somewhat Memorable Name

If I said "womanspreading", I'd be surely attacked for harrasing woman, right?

Tinkeringbell

@AaronHall She's not... I think what she's trying to convey is that she always had the impression that this was light natured. The fact that they're asking for an alternative already shows they're taking this seriously...

I don't see anything in that question saying that manspreading should be okay to use, except that in the past the asker thought it was okay to use.

Tim Post

We'd probably endorse it, just be careful using any official logos (any representation of them in a 16 color game is going to probably be okay anyway). We've run unofficial SE servers attached to the minecraft talk room on gaming for years without a problem, so if you come up with anything, ping me :)

Magisch

2:57 PM

:)

Somewhat Memorable Name

The OP has some history of... disagreement on some SE sites, and a vocal one too...

Magisch

@AaronHall It's a difficult topic to broach

Somewhat Memorable Name

so I might just move on

Feeds

Your manuscript "Don't Pay $25 to Access Any of the Articles in this Journal: A Review of Preprint Repositories and Author Willingness to Email PDF Copies for Free" has also been rejected, but nice try.

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Feeds censoring!!1!1oneone

Aaron Hall

3:22 PM

in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 4 mins ago, by Tim Post

This too, shall pass :) Please don't feel as if you did anything wrong. I think we're going to need to feel uncomfortable about these discussions for a while longer, but that serves the purpose of eventually feeling comfortable about them.

Kevin B

...

Aaron Hall

@TimPost I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there, Tim. Gendered epithets are wrong, and you shouldn't tell users they can do it and they didn't do anything wrong.

Tinkeringbell

@AaronHall Nah. It's better to make someone feel like crap for something they unknowingly did wrong and are trying to change now /s

Tim Post

@AaronHall I see absolutely nothing but benign intent there, tbh. The whole thing I was reacting to was about a conversation about avoiding them. I wasn't reacting to the original use of it, I was reacting to everything that ensued after that.

Aaron Hall

This reads as bad faith to me:

43 mins ago, by Aaron Hall

in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 6 hours ago, by Mari-Lou A

[cont'd] A word like the N-word is clearly racist, and calling someone "retarded" is highly offensive but even more so when the person being bullied has impaired intelligence development. But "manspreading" I believed was lighthearted, it doesn't insult all men, it doesn't insult someone's mental capacities, or their culture or the colour of their skin. I realize now, it is very insulting to rude and selfish men, and some men object to the term.

Tim Post

3:37 PM

That read as someone reacting a whole lot of bees coming out looking rather angry and grappling for some words after finding that quite surprising.

Of course I'm in no position to tell anyone how they should read that, interpretation is an individual thing, but I do have the experience of suddenly finding myself on the wrong side of a large group (it's the nature of my job), so I can recognize that pretty quickly where others might not.

Aaron Hall

3:53 PM

> I realize now, it is very insulting to rude and selfish men, and some men object to the term.

calling your critics "rude" and "selfish" doesn't indicate one is coming around.

As a male who rides the subway in NYC every day and who makes every effort not to invade the space of others or take up more space than necessary, and who finds his space invaded by insensitive people of both genders, I found this personally insulting and offensive.

Tim Post

@AaronHall I missed that. Well, I read it, but I read a word into it that wasn't there that caused me to miss the meaning. Moment

in Discussion on question by Mari-Lou A: Is there a gender neutral equivalent of “manspreading”? on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 14 secs ago, by Tim Post

I would have noted that previously, but somehow, I didn't read or parse it properly while going through the transcripts.

I'm just gonna blame my semi-shiny new glasses for that one, not sure how that eluded me as I was going back through the transcript. Though, "back-chatting" is difficult even for those that have 20/20.

It's weird, my monitor goes from rectangle to trapezoid if I'm looking at the center of it while shaking my head .. this prescription is going to take some getting used to.

Magisch

@TimPost I wonder what the reaction would have been if you'd seen a similarly insensitive comment mentioning women

there are some, sometimes. Usually the reaction is a chat flag

Tim Post

@Magisch Pretty evenly applied, if it's at all sexual or objectifying in nature it's a flag, otherwise I try to point out what's wrong with it.

canon

4:19 PM

@TimPost /manlyflex?

Tim Post

@canon Is that like a bowflex only cheaper if you buy it during a late night informercial and believe them when they say YOU ONLY GET THIS DISCOUNT IF YOU CALL RIGHT NOW?

canon

@TimPost No, it's a comical gesture in which one performs a ridiculous raised double bicep flex, in the style of Mr. Universe... or, you know... Geston... to convey one's undoubted manliness.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Magisch

4:34 PM

I liked undertale

canon

lol

user271002

The Yellow Troll

Tim Post

5:38 PM

So you see this puddle of clear liquid on the countertop and put your hand in it, not really thinking much, just .. you know .. it's a puddle of water on the counter. Then you look at the table and see a 4-year-old with an empty bottle of super glue.

Anyone that says working at home is boring and uneventful does not have young children.

user271002

in The Awkward Silence on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Feb 3 at 17:25, by Shog9

I was actually supergluing my fingers, but I spilled some of the glue

Andy

I'm a fan of glitter everywhere because the 6 year old got crafty, but spilled it when they opened it on the other end of the house for some reason and ran back to the kitchen.

Sterling Archer

I superglued my hands to a keyfob in middle school

I had to take a history test with my hands glued to that thing. Mom was pissed

Andy

ahahaha. Did the teacher know?

canon

@Andy Glitter, craft herpes.

Andy

5:49 PM

Yes it is. I haven't completely eliminated it from the house...I have a sister in law that slips it into gifts...but she's got a 1 year old, so revenge will come soon.

Tim Post

We got a resume once that someone took the time to cover in glitter so it shimmered.

Problem was, while in transit, the glitter fell off and collected in the bottom crease of the folded paper.

Andy

What'd you guys do to anger this person?

Tim Post

The resume was for engineering, so David Fullerton opened it, and glitter just poured out all over his keyboard.

We didn't hire the person, but the glitter had nothing to do with the decision.

I have to admit, when David told that story I was secretly envious of the person that thought of it, but equally glad to observe someone else fail before I did :)

Andy

As someone that didn't get glitter all over my keyboard, that's hilarious. From David's point of view though, it was probably better to just burn down the office and start over. That glitter would be everywhere forever.

Tinkeringbell

Balloons. Balloons are a great way to clean glitter

Andy

6:03 PM

How?

Tinkeringbell

Static electricity ;)

Andy

Ah. That sounds like it just makes it airborne then

Kevin B

seems oddly coincidental that meta.stackexchange.com/questions/179223/… would get bumped to the front page, what criteria does community use to bump posts?

Tinkeringbell

@Andy nah, it'll stick to the balloon

Lint rollers and tape works too

Andy

> Note that the posts eligible for bumping are those scoring >= 0 that have gone at least 30 days with no activity, have at least one non-deleted answer scoring 0 and none scoring more than that, and no accepted answer (also, they can't be deleted or closed). Source

Somewhat Memorable Name

6:26 PM

@KevinB oh, drama..

Tim Post

6:43 PM

Oooof. I should answer that.

Nog Shine

Are you done with your tweets @TimPost ? :P

Tim Post

@NogShine I've barely tweeted today :P

Nog Shine

hello my friend, @Shog9, Do you wanna answer this? :D meta.stackexchange.com/q/313274/357396

@TimPost That's a nice unicorn!. Tweet next photo while you are wearing that Unicorn and cat. Is it specifically designed or just a random selection?

@TimPost I was expecting some more as you do a series of tweets.

Tim Post

6:59 PM

@NogShine off-the-rack from the store, and on sale, too!

rene

in lava ... temperature match

Nog Shine

Now I need a dictionary from Tim-postian to my English :D

Tim Post

@NogShine Such a thing could grant one an enormous amount of power, be very careful

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TimPost What do you think about my Developer Survey question suggestion? Apparently it's extremely controversial. Are downvoted suggestions also considered?

@gparyani, I hadn't, but reviewing that does not change my interpretation of the chat. Which includes, of course, absence of any response on the order of "OMG, I didn't think you were suggesting something like that." — John Bollinger Jul 9 at 21:03

Lest "I was told to post here by Tim Post" be misinterpreted, Tim's recommendation appears to have been a response to "I have a suggestion for the upcoming Developer Survey [period]." No endorsement, nor indeed review of any kind, of the actual suggestion should be inferred on Tim's part. — John Bollinger Jul 9 at 20:56

Tim Post

7:15 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Yes. We listen to users in a lot of places, meta is one of them. But meta represents around .. 2500 active users at any given time, they just happen to usually be our most engaged and frequent users and folks that give us a lot of their time. So while we take any feedback from meta weighted heavily (in proportion, there are millions of users on our sites), we also conduct research by actively looking for people who would rather talk to us privately, because meta seems intimidating

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TimPost Nice, but what do you think about the suggestion itself?

Andy

Meta is only intimidating when you are providing your opinion.

Aaron Hall

> So, as long as you're reviewing based only on content, it doesn't matter who the person is.

Tim Post

I honestly don't think it's a bad idea to occasionally ask "What are we doing here, what's our purpose [in 2018]?" We solved the hyphen-site problem, we solved the forums-stink-at-knowledge-sharing problem, what's our new thing, or do we agree that we're in maintenance mode?

Aaron Hall

This logic may work fine internally, but the rules are that you can't do something with a second account that you can't do with one, and if we have reason to believe you are, you'll face consequences.

Shadow Wizard

7:19 PM

@Andy nope. Even valid bug reports are downvoted when folk think the bug is too minor. Discussion is downvoted when someone disagree with some idea behind it. That's how it is, but many find it indeed intimidating as @TimPost says.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Andy Ideally it would be resolved by having a separate set of "agreement/disagreement" votes that wouldn't affect viewing in any way, while relegating the current voting to just quality, as it is on main Q&A sites. This is especially helpful on MSE, on which one can lose rep just for disagreeing with the community, even if it's in a well-written post.

Andy

Sorry, the sarcasm bit must have gotten lost.

Shadow Wizard

Lost along with Tim's keys...

Andy

He needs those on a lanyard at this point.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@ShadowWizard It's highly doubtful that the same set of circumstances would happen 17 times in a row. "Tim Post lost his keys" is only useful in explaining the odd drive-by downvote, not an overall pattern of downvotes.

Tim Post

7:21 PM

It might be better to make the answer free-form (thankfully we have data scientists now that help us parse that stuff) but I don't think it's an inappropriate or wasteful question.

Shadow Wizard

@AaronHall who mentioned second account? The question is about different people who happen to be family and live together, sharing the same computer and IP. But actually different people.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TimPost What do you think about the suggestion in the top-voted answer?

Shadow Wizard

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Tim Post keys became a meme... it overflowed.

Aaron Hall

@ShadowWizard I suppose the point to quibble on is that it does matter who, it can't be yourself.

Tim Post

@AaronHall Well, yeah, that's clearly abuse. I'm answering in the context of the question, which is "do I need to recuse myself" essentially (which would be way overthinking it).

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:23 PM

Also, it's possible for one of my family members (for instance) to become an employee. What's to happen in that case?

Shadow Wizard

@AaronHall that's kind of trivial, yeah.

Aaron Hall

ok, carry on.

Shadow Wizard

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog nothing? What you think should happen?

Tim Post

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Where we are and where someone would like to see us arrive can and probably would be two different things in many cases.

Anyway, it's not an uninteresting question, I think you found the root of something we should be asking annually, it's just the wording and the format that might need some thinking. Survey questions are hard.

Fabby

@JourneymanGeek I've got to get me some vorlon coffee maker

(mobile version. Cannot reply. Been offline due to bereavement)

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:26 PM

@TimPost Yeah, I agree. Can you please answer the MSO question with that?

Tim Post

It's really difficult to consistently write questions with multiple choice answers that don't introduce bias in answering.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Fabby You can reply in the mobile version. You just have to scroll a little after selecting a message due to a known bug.

@TimPost Yeah, the way the "equally" choice is worded sort of introduces bias towards it.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Perhaps I was too verbose (hah, Java guy) in answering meta question when Tim could do it in a paragraph...

Tim Post

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I will on Monday when I have time to put some thought into it, because you did touch on the root of something we should probably be including, so I need to talk to the survey folks prior to writing something up and putting a status tag on it.

I've left the tab open with an annotation to answer it

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@TimPost Thank you very much!

Tim Post

7:29 PM

Shadow Wizard

@Fabby you can but it's not elegant. You can copy the message permalink, paste, leave only the ID and add ":" before of the ID. e.g. :7133872 this is a reply.

Tim Post

^^^ great way to avoid closing tabs I meant to finish something with prior

Shadow Wizard

IMO the lack of reply option from transcript is the worst thing in mobile chat.

Tim Post

always triggers that "are you sure?" dialog :)

Shadow Wizard

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog not relevant if there are hundreds of messages in between.

Somewhat Memorable Name

7:33 PM

and writing a meta post at 2am is not recommended...

that said, time to sleep! 💤

Journeyman Geek

@Fabby Condolences and its fine, I remember

@SomewhatMemorableName I've been tempted to do that a few times

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

8:03 PM

delv-pls 20k+ meta.stackexchange.com/questions/313280/…

canon

@Catija suffer more pings! meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312004/…

yoke and lash, yadda-yadda

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@canon Now you just doubled it.

canon

exactly

wtb recursion... pings all the way down

Travis J

8:23 PM

@TimPost I like the work being done by DAG as far as what's next. I don't think that improving the ask question feature is "maintenance" so there is certainly forward moving progress going on. I think that one area which has classically been neglected on the exchange is the tag "info" section. That section could probably benefit from more exposure, and perhaps even a small inclusion of features from the documentation project with regards to examples.

Kevin B

I like the initiative... I've just felt like we've been left out of the conversation in some cases.

even though we haven't been

Journeyman Geek

@TravisJ wouldn't that be better (eventually) as a meta post?

Shadow Wizard

Related and resolved discussion about it:

14

Q: What are tag wikis for?

Wait, wait, hear me out. I was looking at subprocess earlier today. Its tag wiki reads, in its entirety: The subprocess module includes replacements for functions such as os.popen*, os.spawn*, os.system, popen2.*, and commands.*. This raises more questions than it answers, so I took a cra...

Will the Tavern be empty this time during the Happy Hour?

Happy Lonely Hour

Anyone who is happy, raise your hand!

rene

8:39 PM

\o

Shadow Wizard

@rene how come there isn't SEDE room on SE chat?

There is!

SEDE - Stack Exchange Data Explorer

Discussion related to the usage of Stack Exchange's Data Explorer

rene

@ShadowWizard see the initial messages in that room

Shadow Wizard

So why duplicate it here?

@rene which room? On SE or MSE?

in SEDE - Stack Exchange Data Explorer on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Mar 11 '14 at 15:06, by rolfl

Hi and welcome to discussions about the Stack Exchange Data Explorer chat room.

Travis J

@JourneymanGeek I have barked up the meta tree on that issue plenty of times.

rene

@ShadowWizard mse

I don't know the back story, I was pinged and invited as RO

Shadow Wizard

8:42 PM

@rene oh. Well, major downside having it here is it requires 20 net MSE rep for people to take part.

Not trivial to get.

rene

Now I feel ~~important~~ responsible ....

@ShadowWizard having it in and out of the fridge isn't working either

And I think most SEDE questions are still on MSE

As for any room. it needs a crowd to keep it going

Shadow Wizard

@rene true

@rene or a Kenny

canon

can I log into data explorer using facebook yet?

rene

Meh

canon

it's been like (6-8 weeks™)*30 or so

rene

8:46 PM

@canon nope

is there a FR for that?

Shadow Wizard

14

Q: No Facebook log in for StackExchange Data Explorer

StackExchange Data Explorer allows login with about a dozen open IDs, but, unlike every other Stack Exchange site (in my understanding), Facebook isn't offered as one of the options. Is there a reason for this?

feature-request data-explorer openid

/cc @rene ^

@canon since when?

Was it ever planned?

oh, you mean this?

> I'll put it on my to-do list and see what I can do about getting it taken care of.

@TimStone any update on that? ^

rene

nope, it just needs someone to work on it

canon

@ShadowWizard no, I was just joking about the lack of parity with the main site since 20-goddamned-12.

Shadow Wizard

@canon oh

canon

anonymous queries ftw

rene

8:50 PM

I'm holding back on any changes in that area as the removal of OpenId does have impact on SEDE and I saw Nick mention he wanted to bring SEDE under universal login as well.

Shadow Wizard

@TravisJ plenty? So you hide them very well. I can see only one single question from you about it, over four years ago:

30

Q: Improving the tag wiki user experience by standardizing the naming convention

Tag wikis are important Tag wikis are awesome, and I like their format. However, I think it can be counter-intuitive for users to get there. Often there is a vast amount of useful information in the tag wikis when they cover large topics. Looking at the tags sorted by popularity and clicking th...

feature-request tag-wiki

rene

Oh, a question from that TravisJ type again ....

he does that every 4 years ...

Shadow Wizard

Like world cup!

Travis Cup?

rene

Exactly!

Shadow Wizard

hmm.. weird.. How @Pseudohuman avatar is shown, with only 1 rep? Bug? Hacked? @JennaSloan

Travis J

9:05 PM

@ShadowWizard Hm, I thought it had been more. Maybe it is just because it bothers me how hidden the info is all the time I thought I had written more on it.

Jenna Sloan

9:16 PM

@ShadowWizard maybe it's different on meta?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@ShadowWizard I asked Shog about this before, and he refused to answer.

You answered your own question:

Mar 11 at 12:53, by Shadow Wizard

And the avatar was anonymous until it got that write access, I'm sure of that since Pseudohuman lurked a lot in the Den.

@Pseudohuman What is 2+1?

Jenna Sloan

It has explicit write access in a different room though

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@JennaSloan That it has explicit write access in at least one room may make its avatar visible throughout the entire server

Dragonrage

:(

πάντα ῥεῖ

@SmokeDetector k

Shadow Wizard

9:35 PM

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog huh! running full memory scan

@JennaSloan nope, <20 rep users get the gray avatar here as well.

@TravisJ maybe it got downvoted and auto nuked, but I doubt it. Run this search and you'll see for certain.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Sorry. Lunar eclipse was fun though :)

Travis J

@ShadowWizard Nope, nothing in there except like 20 answers or so deleted as a result of the posts being removed.

πάντα ῥεῖ

10:12 PM

@SmokeDetector k

Shadow Wizard

10:44 PM

@Tinkeringbell yeah, took a glimpse too. :)

@TravisJ oh. So, time for new question?

Tinkeringbell

I got pictures. Remind me to upload them tomorrow ;)

Travis J

11:01 PM

@ShadowWizard Perhaps. I get the feeling like tag wikis aren't exactly a priority at the moment though, and from previous interactions (in chat? somewhere) it seemed there wasn't much intention to change them. I know I talked about it during documentation, but perhaps not in a question format.

I am excited about the ask a question stuff, so for now just kinda waiting to see how that plays out.

πάντα ῥεῖ

11:48 PM

@SmokeDetector k

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell sure!

@πάνταῥεῖ m

SEDE - Stack Exchange Data Explorer

Transcript for