Tavern on the Meta

12:15 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Misleading link, shortened url in answer: What should I look for when getting a treadle sewing machine second hand? by user4844 on crafts.SE

Journeyman Geek

@MartinJames I don't eat fish for religious reasons. And am allergic to pineapple

sag

3:11 AM

Possible serial downvoting?

I'm getting downvotes on some of my old posts from years ago.

user310756

@sag why are you bringing this into this room, It's a SO issue. Raise a flag on SO and we'll reply as to why this is happening

SmokeDetector

3:54 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: Zoiper5 error executing process on ubuntu by The Syndicate on askubuntu.com

SmokeDetector

5:21 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, pattern-matching website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: How to repair an Exchange mailbox database in a dirty shutdown state? by Rama kanth on serverfault.com

Magisch

@sag You'll need a moderator to confirm that

SmokeDetector

5:43 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted website in answer: Game Development Institute? by sopha on gamedev.SE

sag

@Magisch It's ok now. My rep came back because "user was removed"

SmokeDetector

6:05 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad keyword in body: Can you suggest the exact answer for this puzzle? by Benjamin Blalock on mathoverflow.net

Journeyman Geek

These things happen :)

(and if the user hadn't been removed, chances are it would have tripped off the automatic serial voting system)

Magisch

6:17 AM

@JourneymanGeek Imo no

From what that looks like, it looks like it'd fall out of scope of the serial detection script

I obviously don't know exactly how it works, but I've got a pretty good idea

Journeyman Geek

hope

nope

Nor do I ;p

Magisch

tis' not for us non staff users to know

Journeyman Geek

nope ;p

and I suspect a lot of the time we don't even notice unless a user points it out

Magisch

I actually have a way to find serial downvoting relatively reliably, but there's so much of it and the effects are comparably minor that I don't bother

I'm fairly sure the CMs/Mods would come down on me like a ton of bricks if I flagged another 150~180 custom flags that take ages to investigate a week

Shadow Wizard

@JNat daily network wide spammer for your kindly nuking... thanks! :)

(see their MSE account for recent spam)

SmokeDetector

6:45 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad ns for domain in answer: How do you backup all your emails, by copying the 'Outlook' folder? (Outlook 2013) by Natosha Jacobs on superuser.com

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:06 AM

What a mess Cathay Pacific has put my cousins in...

Shadow Wizard

?

rene

7:24 AM

funny that I instantly know which user is meant here.

check

Magisch

sigh

trash that message of me pls

Somewhat Memorable Name

Morning(?)

Martin James

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog lol, which miserable airport are they stuck in for some undefined and unknowable period?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@MartinJames They were stuck in Hong Kong until we called CX and they rebooked them.

The one thing I like about the U.S. airlines is that they have better IT infrastructure than many foreign carriers.

Somewhat Memorable Name

7:40 AM

So... what happened to the 1-star wall?

Martin James

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog maybe, but at leaat HK has, (by rep - not been there), a well-respected airport. Many US seem to be dumpsters with a runway attached:(

Somewhat Memorable Name

I <3 Changi

rene

→ 1 message moved to Chimney

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

7:54 AM

@MartinJames It would have made it extremely inconvenient for us if they flew late, because they would have arrived at 12 midnight and then there's a 3-hour drive

The U.S. built their airports first, now they're the worst

JNat

@ShadowWizard gone

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Is there a way to mirror my screen to a PC with sound? by Ash co on android.SE

rene

sd naa

but barely

Shadow Wizard

@JNat thanks!

Somewhat Memorable Name

So.... sex addiction is a mental disease now... according to WHO

Shadow Wizard

8:05 AM

???

Somewhat Memorable Name

I think I might have seen many posts on SE stating that it's not a disease back then...

donno what will happen instead

Somewhat Memorable Name

8:20 AM

Anyway...

The questions for ELL.SE election have been selected... umm, selected? No selection! Candidates get all questions!

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName isn't any addiction considered mental issue?

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard assuming its an actual addiction

Somewhat Memorable Name

True.... that's why there were debates whether sox addiction did exist or not... until WHO declared it?

Also, video game addiction too :O

terdon

@JoeFriend really? You're not just saying that? You're really going to remove that bar?

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName sure they exist...

!!/report meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312414/…

SmokeDetector

8:35 AM

@ShadowWizard Post 1: Already recently reported [ MS ]

Somewhat Memorable Name

@SmokeDetector site-recommendation? migrate to Spam Overflow

Shadow Wizard

@JNat another cross site spammer... thanks!

gone

JNat'd

lol

8:39 AM

Just Naturally nuked

Somewhat Memorable Name

gnat'd (oh, that already exists)

Magisch

I'll be here making terrible name puns all week

Journeyman Geek

hm. We could do something about that...

@terdon heh, I'm mad that... our whole theme is basically the generic beta theme.

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek that would bring my Journey here to an early end

Journeyman Geek

"And that your honor, was when I shot him"

Shadow Wizard

8:47 AM

Magnifying @Mag

Mithrandir

@Magisch I'm sure we won't mith them when you're through.

Magisch

@Mithrandir what a random, but direct opinion of yours.

Mithrandir

Spoken wisely. In a mage-ish manner, you might say.

terdon

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I really hope they fix that.

Journeyman Geek

@terdon i've made strongly worded complaints (and will keep complaining loudly until its fixed )

Magisch

9:04 AM

@JourneymanGeek post sad ash pictures, it'll be fixed in a day

sad ash pictures are a weapon of mass distraughtion

Journeyman Geek

2

terdon

But removing the top bar from AU would make me (and many other users) veeeeery happy.

Journeyman Geek

THink this will work?

@terdon oh, I think it certainly is going.

terdon

People keep thinking AU is somehow part of Canonical and get confused about what we do there.

Journeyman Geek

or maybe this, cropped down to not show the not actually empty food dish

3

I'll save this one for if it goes live....

3

SmokeDetector

9:23 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Was Swedish dentist Bernt Herlitz fired because he revealed that migrant adults were fraudulently posing as children? by Ethan Hunt on skeptics.SE

Somewhat Memorable Name

@JourneymanGeek this... doesn't look sad :O

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer: Recover data from fomatted SD card by captainfrey on superuser.com

Journeyman Geek

ooh

3

Somewhat Memorable Name

@JourneymanGeek aww....

Journeyman Geek

(that's from 06)

SmokeDetector

10:09 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title: Rapid Tone in the improbable occasion by GuadCorn on drupal.SE

rene

10:24 AM

I think this is the first time I find this: Presumption of innocence is a legal right in many countries and international human right under the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 11 as an argument in a meta post ...

Journeyman Geek

lol

link?

Somewhat Memorable Name

-15

Q: Increase the number of votes required to close a question

Currently, it takes 5 close votes to reach the closing threshold. Each person with >=3000 reputation can cast 50 close votes per day. Problems: It's not difficult to reach 3000 reputation. One way to get that is getting 600 up-votes. This is a number reachable on one question. Getting up-votes...

(I went to Google instead of checking MSO/MSE ._.)

Journeyman Geek

the sad thing is...

until they pulled that out, it seemed mostly sensible

rene

well, I was offended from the start ...

Journeyman Geek

Well adjusting voting thresholds for a larger site could actually be a good thing.

Somewhat Memorable Name

10:37 AM

Yas. It should be 3 CV on SO

Journeyman Geek

That would indicate not enough closevoters?

rene

Meh, we need more close voters. We are a large site because we have plenty of users. They should feel enabled, valued and relevant.

Martin James

@SomewhatMemorableName lol, human rights for h/w dumpers, but not for curators. If you took all the self-cancelling hypocrisy out of that post, there would not be much left.

Journeyman Geek

erm, hardware dumpers? ;)

Somewhat Memorable Name

@JourneymanGeek we always have 5000+ items on CV review...

Martin James

10:39 AM

@JourneymanGeek lol, homework fly-tippers.

Journeyman Geek

@SomewhatMemorableName so.. not enough closevoters.

ahh

I was trying to work out if you meant HVs

@MartinJames add a homework tag. Automatically close any questions with it ;p

Martin James

@JourneymanGeek lol, if I could get it passed, I would propose it. Anyway, we did have a 'homework' tag on SO, but it got burned.

Journeyman Geek

;p

I don't think TPTB would like the idea of butterfly mines (which IRL are utterly vile things) for hapless newbies.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Oh well, I took a bite on that meta post...

Martin James

@JourneymanGeek I would not mid so much if the newbs could ask a half-decent question. Not even a good SO, question, just any question, as they might ask to a doctor, lawyer, accountant or garage technician, but no. It's so often just 'my car does not work right' or 'I'm feeling sick'.

Journeyman Geek

10:45 AM

@MartinJames as someone who has desktop support for most of my life...

I hear stuff like that a lot

Magisch

Thats an utter pipe dream to get people in general to ask good questions

Somewhat Memorable Name

Welp, my keyboard doesn't work right.

It types by itself...

Martin James

@SomewhatMemorableName Oh? mne s fne:)

Somewhat Memorable Name

Anyway, random topic change: I am surprised there are still highly negative scored questions on SO in the last 3 years

rene

3 are locked ...

SmokeDetector

11:32 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: sudo apt-get update failing - "could not open" list file due to "permission denied" by LinuxdudeBelgium on askubuntu.com

Anne Daunted

12:44 PM

Why does a serpent-wielding Englishman delete users and how can I protect myself from him?

Feeds

1:00 PM

Welcome Wagon: Classifying Comments on Stack Overflow

Julia & Jason on July 10, 2018

Last month, Joe wrote about the Welcome Wagon work that we are doing to make Stack Overflow more welcoming and inclusive. Our current work involves projects across domains from asking questions to framing community standards and more; one project we have been working on is understanding how comments are used and misused on Stack Overflow.

We are a data engineer (Jason) and data scientist (Julia). As folks who code for a living and use Stack Overflow, as well as work here, we have certainly experienced and witnessed unwelcoming behavior in Stack Overflow comments first hand, whether through cond …

Journeyman Geek

@AnneDaunted This is ... something that' a lot of folk are wondering.

Anne Daunted

The two comments there received no answer

Journeyman Geek

nope

Shadow Wizard

So, they found the ultimate unwelcoming user. He asked why a question got a totally unrelated tag, and now he's featured for all eternity as someone who scares people away from Stack Overflow. That's really nice.

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Feeds I was fooled by "Log in to Stack Overflow" button -_-

@ShadowWizard wait what?

Shadow Wizard

1:16 PM

Read the blog.... see the comments "Hall of Shame".

If I'd see my own comment there, I'd feel very and utterly unwelcome.

And anyone can find the author of those comments easily with Google search, so it's same as if they wrote their name there as well.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Oh well... time for another clean-up...

rene

@ShadowWizard that really does it ...

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName If those comments are still there after being reviewed by dozens of SE employees, guess it means they should stay, not shoved under the rug.

(probably so that they can give them as example for bad behavior.)

Somewhat Memorable Name

I've edited the Q and flagged the comment as NLN

Shadow Wizard

That's... cheating!

:D

SmokeDetector

1:27 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Did the Nazis kill Jews with gas chambers? by Allan Davis on skeptics.SE

Somewhat Memorable Name

Anyway, I don't really see why the 3rd comment's deemed "unwelcoming".

And the 5th comment might be unwelcoming if taken out of context...

(both are still there)

rene

@shog9 was it really the intent of the company to make it so easy to find the users that left those unwelcoming comments? If yes, no words to express my feelings; if no, please fix the blog or delete the comments.

Journeyman Geek

1:43 PM

@rene gee, of only people didn't self organise into angry mobs

Magisch

This comment really rubs me the wrong way:

@Yvette - the question has the [discussion] tag. Comments are meant for extended discussion at meta, there is no other way to have one. We went over this before, what is it that you try to accomplish? — Hans Passant 51 mins ago

Journeyman Geek

hm

Magisch

Is it just me being sensitive or is that actually really rude couched in objectivity?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title: What songs have beats that are similiar to "U.O.E.N.O." by Rocko? by Casey Clark on musicfans.SE

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I have no idea, since it's nln > Yvette's comment seems to be gone?

Also, it may be blunt... could have been couched better, could also have been a LOT worse?

Andy

1:55 PM

Do comments not show up on the blog? I posted a comment, received a URL to the comment, but there aren't any comments.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I'm personally not a big fan of 'we went over this before'... but it's sometimes necessary.

Magisch

@Andy I think they stopped approving comments a while ago

Andy

Ugh.

rene

@Magisch Hans has a point but he is also known to be direct. I can handle it but I take it if you find it rude.

Magisch

I'm not sure thats why I asked

I don't feel strongly enough in either direction

SmokeDetector

2:01 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in title: Is it possible to have a Cloudwatch alarm of the 'free memory' of a ElastiCache Redis cluster? by Matthew Bidewell on serverfault.com

rene

@JourneymanGeek probably true, didn't want to organize a mob. I don't rule out there is a grand plan behind this and that all possible side-effects are account for ....

Magisch

@rene I'd assume the answer is no

stackexchange is really big on no public shaming

Journeyman Geek

@rene meant about calling out comments.

rene

@Magisch I also assume no, yet current public evidence shows otherwise

Journeyman Geek

Also if you think its bad enough to call out, maybe... delete them?

rene

2:05 PM

@JourneymanGeek ah

Magisch

It would behoove that if you're giving an example of unacceptable behavior, that that example should be dealt with, yes.

@rene linky to the blog?

(the post you're referencing)

rene

@Magisch scroll back a bit

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Magisch The "Welcome Wagon", scroll up abit

Journeyman Geek

1 hour ago, by Feeds

Welcome Wagon: Classifying Comments on Stack Overflow

Julia & Jason on July 10, 2018

Last month, Joe wrote about the Welcome Wagon work that we are doing to make Stack Overflow more welcoming and inclusive. Our current work involves projects across domains from asking questions to framing community standards and more; one project we have been working on is understanding how comments are used and misused on Stack Overflow.

We are a data engineer (Jason) and data scientist (Julia). As folks who code for a living and use Stack Overflow, as well as work here, we have certainly experienced and witnessed unwelcoming behavior in Stack Overflow comments first hand, whether through cond …

Shadow Wizard

@rene deleting the comments won't help, Google cache it for long days, sometimes months.

Somewhat Memorable Name

2:07 PM

^ shoo, another one-box :(

rene

@SomewhatMemorableName some rooms forbid them ...

Somewhat Memorable Name

Anyway, I might already be biased against SE management, but I'm really curious of this

> We had 57 participants who made 13,742 ratings on 3,992 comments.

Who are they?

rene

SE staff ...

Magisch

Maybe I'm old fashioned but none of the 5 examples seem to be in any way unwelcoming to me

Some are rather direct feedback yes, but they're feedback. And there are no insults in there from what I can see

"You're doing something wrong" isn't a loaded statement imo

Somewhat Memorable Name

@rene ... I'm idiot. I skipped a whole sentence...

Magisch

2:10 PM

Especially the tagging one confuses me. Yes the sentence structure is odd but why is that a given to be assumed as malice and not that OP isn't a native speaker or has that quirk?

rene

@SomewhatMemorableName if I confirm that I'm probably kicked from chat, so I'll refrain from comments ... ;)

Shadow Wizard

@rene actually... I don't think so. They probably took some external people for this.

rene

I think they took anyone who isn't an active user of SO

Shadow Wizard

Probably paid them a bit to amend for the time, but 57 people are about all SE employees...

rene

and then showed those comments in isolation

Magisch

2:12 PM

I've definitely gotten way worse comments on my posts that I also didn't find unwelcoming, so maybe it's my bias here

Shadow Wizard

@rene Might be, hence easy to take them out of context.

rene

but that still doesn't matter. I don't mind that random people classify comments. I do mind if those comments that deemed to be a problem can be linked back to an individual, whether the comment is awful or not.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Dillemma of how to show a proof that there are ~~perceived~~ unwelcome ~~out-of-context~~ comments.

rene

This should not be a witch hunt but publishing as they did makes it easy for the SE outer world to pin point the specific problem users.

Tim Post

They've been deleted, it was an oversight on my part. I thought they were deleted, so I didn't ask anyone if they deleted them, because it didn't occur to me to do so.

I take 100% responsibility for it, and I'll make amends if anyone is adversely affected by my oversight.

rene

2:18 PM

I still feel you need to redact the blog a bit, Google doesn't forget easily ...

Magisch

@TimPost Deleting them is not enough. Any enterprising user can find the authors on SEDE within minutes

rene

and that ^

Or at least until Sunday and the next datadump refresh ...

Shadow Wizard

@Andy @YvetteColomb I wonder, was this user suspended before on SO? I have a feeling that's not their first suspension. (Don't want details, just yes/no. :)) Thanks!

Andy

Not my position to give user history.

Shadow Wizard

@TimPost are all the comments found to be unwelcome deleted? Or only those few featured in the blog?

Magisch

2:25 PM

Probably privileged information that the mods signed an agreement not to reveal

Shadow Wizard

@Andy user now rants on MSE about their suspension, so I think it's fair to know if they're lying.

(they claim it's their first suspension.)

Tim Post

@ShadowWizard The ones on the blog. We're still doing analysis on the remainder of the set / exposing the tool to additional perspectives / etc.

Shadow Wizard

I see.

Any reason those were selected to be in the blog, or just random?

Tim Post

Yes.

Magisch

Will any further steps be taken to anonymize the authors of those comments?

like can someone scrub them off of the current data dump in SEDE?

Tim Post

2:28 PM

We're editing the blog post right now

Shadow Wizard

@TimPost thanks

Magisch

Ah, nice. Sorry to be so persistent over this but it's a tad bit delicate. Some of these users have linked professional reputations that could get ruined over something like this

Tim Post

It's okay. While this was an honest mistake I agree that we can't be too careful in correcting it. Also removing the comments from SEDE.

Mgetz

@TimPost just curious are you informing the authors of the deleted comments?

rene

and there is the first MSO post: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/370793/578411 /cc @TimPost

Tim Post

2:39 PM

@Mgetz Yeah, I'm going to get an email out to them as soon as I can (I think I'll have my hands full for a few hours, at least)

Mgetz

@TimPost I'm also a little concerned that your rating system rates comments without context

Tim Post

I'm a little concerned that you're a little concerned, but I gotta go type paragraphs for a few. I'll field questions about this as soon as we get it managed.

Shadow Wizard

sensing endless concern loop

breaking loop by not being concerned about it

Tim Post

@Mgetz The way comments are displayed (depending on the # of them, voting, etc) - folks often) see them completely out of context, and it's iffy if people that don't expand them aren't seen again (anon users are difficult to test). So, we kinda need to see what people think seeing them randomly.

Mgetz

Fair enough

Shadow Wizard

2:45 PM

In the spirit of being unwelcome.... looks like we made the OP here pack their stuff and leave. Probably for the best?

Shog9

@rene no. Should be fixed now.

rene

Yes, thanks.

Somewhat Memorable Name

Suddenly too much drama, brain asploded, need to sleep.

Shog9

@Mgetz they're shown in threads, which is... actually more context than mods get by default when evaluating flags from the dashboard. Probably could be improved, but I doubt it's relevant in most cases.

Mgetz

12 mins ago, by Mgetz

Fair enough

Shog9

2:57 PM

Some ideas toward improving this:

4

Q: Mod Tooling for comments UI improvement suggestions

I am going through the moderator tooling over the next [timeframe] and create some feature requests that I think would improve the UI a bit. I have more radical suggestions for a complete overhaul, but I imagine that's going to be even more work than the number of UI things I'll be posting. (Scre...

feature-request comments flags moderator-tools

Feel free to chime in there if you have thoughts...

Shadow Wizard

@Shog while you're here, can you advise how to turn this unwelcoming comment into something that is welcoming?

> The code you posted cannot yield this result. Please post the real code if you hope to get any help

Anne Daunted

@Shog9 A serpernt-wielding Englishman?

Shog9

I just scanned the blog post... Something that's not exactly explicitly said but seems pretty clear if you read between the lines: comment ranking gets pretty wild as you start to include people who can't readily interpret the technical aspects of comments. This was something we observed in past experiments as well, and while not surprising it probably doesn't improve with added context; you kinda do need to be able to understand what you're reading.

@ShadowWizard I'm the wrong person to ask; that doesn't strike me as particularly unwelcoming.

Kevin B

heh, that makes you the right person to ask if you were hoping it wasn't considered unwelcoming

Shog9

But... I have the dubious advantage of having seen thousands upon thousands of questions with code that doesn't illustrate the problem being asked about. So I probably skew toward assuming that the comment is accurate. YMMV.

Shadow Wizard

3:01 PM

@Shog9 that's... unsettling.

Shog9

why?

Shadow Wizard

Because, at least for me, you represent SE.

Kevin B

What is unwelcoming about that message?

Shog9

if there's one thing you should be taking away from this blog post, it's that folks have wildly different evaluations of certain comments.

Hence the value of collecting ratings in aggregate.

One person thinking something is unwelcoming - or not unwelcoming - means almost nothing.

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 if that one person has lots of influence, it means a lot.

Shog9

3:03 PM

depends

Anne Daunted

Maybe SE chose these comments to show that SO is actually not that unwelcoming ;-)

"if that's the worst they can come up with"

Shadow Wizard

Actually those aren't real comments anymore. "These combine elements of real comments to show typical examples"

Shog9

I mean... I delete comments at the drop of a hat. Welcoming, unwelcoming, rude, funny... If they don't appear to be immediately useful, get rid of 'em.

Mgetz

@Shog9 There are cultural aspects too, I'd be very curious to see which countries have the highest proportion of 'rude' comments

Shog9

@Mgetz uh-huh... Culture clash is a thing

16

A: Define "subtle put down"

Hanlon's razor applies here, I think... That may well be just a very poor answer. Comments have and will be deleted at the drop of a hat. If you raise a flag and a comment doesn't seem to be contributing anything useful, the moderator handling it will likely take you at your word that it's probl...

rene

3:06 PM

@AnneDaunted :D

Shog9

rorschach test for blog readers

if you see unwelcoming, you're welcoming. If you see welcoming, you're unwelcoming. If you see Slender Man, kill your coworkers.

4

Anne Daunted

What about removing badges for comments (e. g. pundit)?

Somewhat Memorable Name

I just saw Slender Man...

Anne Daunted

Your poor coworkers

rene

@AnneDaunted I don't see many users complain about the minimum comment rep because they want to earn the badge

Shog9

3:12 PM

Seriously though: I wouldn't recommend reading too much into this. Julia & Jason are... data people. They tend to be pretty up-front about stuff. That's like their whole job. They're doing this because they believe it's a path to truth, a way to get past conflicting opinions about what is a problem.

The "science" part of social science is... a notoriously rocky road, but I think it's worth trying - just keep in mind that we're gonna need a ridiculous amount of data to actually make concrete conclusions here.

Anne Daunted

@rene But why have them at all? At best, they have no effect, at worst they encourage useless comments.

Shog9

y'know what'd be a cool badge? A badge for comments that prompted edits. Could even be awarded if the comment was deleted after the edit was made.

Kind of a pain to audit though.

rene

@AnneDaunted sure but in that light most badges have no effect

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Shog9 thanks for this statement. It's really reassuring me personally.

SNAFU

We’re going to be doing some maintenance on the Data Explorer for just a bit to patch it up. It’ll be back online right after.

Tweeted by StackStatus on July 10, 2018 at 3:09 PM

Shog9

3:15 PM

Noooooo

rene

Yes, I just found out

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Shog9 I kind of remember we had a hat for this specific action?

Shog9

@SomewhatMemorableName we did?

rene

I was about to save my query

Shog9

quick! copy-paste!

rene

3:16 PM

I did

Magisch

At least the identification issue was rectified immediately

Taryn

@rene sorry!

Somewhat Memorable Name

> Think!

> for 6 separate questions or answers, post gets edited by owner after you comment on it -- [Winter Bash 2017](https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/304340/winter-bash-2017-hats)

Magisch

The last thing SE needs is to be responsible for ending some well meaning user's careers

Shog9

@SomewhatMemorableName wow, that sounds like a good ~~badge~~ hat

Tinkeringbell

3:17 PM

@SomewhatMemorableName but how do you know it's your comment that prompted the edit?

rene

@Taryn are you re running an import?

Taryn

@rene nope, just doing some patching.

the import would take hours

rene

OK

Magisch

Does the patching have to do with certain comments showing up?

Taryn

nope, lots of patching of servers this month

rene

3:19 PM

I've saved my query in a gist

Taryn

but I guess I could just truncate table comments while I'm at it

rene

Just run that at production

Magisch

@Taryn or delete the 5 specific ones

Taryn

those are already gone

@rene don't tempt me

Magisch

I did a variation of "for every table in database truncate table" today on production

then I regenerated the mssql master service key

and shut off the agent to change the configuration

rene

3:28 PM

@Magisch And, when you restarted the stuff the database files refused to be attached again?

Taryn

@rene SEDE should be back up

rene

I can confirm that, yes

thanks

@Taryn Was SQLServer patched to 2017 RTM? IIRC it was on a RC before?

Taryn

@rene it was already on 2017, I applied CU8 to it

rene

Ah, ok. Thanks

Taryn

np. we brought it to 2017 RTM when we did the upgrades in Feb-March 2018

rene

3:39 PM

I must have mis-remembered which version I saw back then.

Magisch

@rene Nah it all worked fine ... somehow

Even the messaging problem fixed itself

rene

Awesome! I love code that fixes themselves. I have a bunch of that laying around here, waiting for it to do that trick ...

SmokeDetector

4:00 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Can not delete Document Set "The file is currently checked out or locked for editing by another user." by David Galler on sharepoint.SE

bwDraco

4:35 PM

You've noted that Canonical's top bar has been removed from Ask Ubuntu. This Ask Ubuntu Meta question states "Canonical reached out [...] about making some design changes on Ask Ubuntu to reflect the official Ubuntu site's new design guidelines"; the wording suggests that SEI is legally obligated to implement this top bar under the Ubuntu trademark license agreement. Are you sure this change doesn't violate SEI's agreement with Canonical? — bwDraco 13 mins ago

19

A: Is Ask Ubuntu "official" Ubuntu?

Canonical gave permission for Stack Exchange to use the Ubuntu trademark and logo for Ask Ubuntu. A Canonical employee also assisted in the site's new design to help meet the Ubuntu Brand Guidlines. Beyond that Canonical has made no public announcements relating to Ask Ubuntu. (So we must assume...

> Canonical gave permission for Stack Exchange to use the Ubuntu trademark and logo for Ask Ubuntu. A Canonical employee also assisted in the site's new design to help meet the Ubuntu Brand Guidlines [sic].

I'm pretty sure compliance with the Ubuntu Brand Guidelines is mandated under the trademark agreement.

Jan 1 '16 at 8:37, by bwDraco

I would not be surprised if the letter stated something along the lines of "you are reminded that Ask Ubuntu is required to comply with the Ubuntu Brand Guidelines ... we ask that you make the following changes ... you must include a navigation bar at the top of each page on askubuntu.com that is substantially similar to the one displayed at ubuntu.com ..."

terdon

4:51 PM

@bwDraco I don't think those cover the top bar, only use of the Canonical and Ubuntu logos.

bwDraco

Hmm...

Then why would Stack Exchange have gone through the trouble to implement the top bar?

And why would a Canonical employee have played a role in site design?

terdon

To show that there was a special relationship between AU and Canonical, I think. And Canonical links directly to AU and has it as one of the places users should go to support.

Which is an absolutely horrible thing and causes no end of problems since we have users who have no idea what SE is and think they are asking stuff of Canonical employees.

bwDraco

The question becomes, "are you sure this complies with the Ubuntu brand and design guidelines, as the trademark agreement likely requires?"

terdon

@bwDraco What makes you think it doesn't? I haven't looked into this for a while, but I've never heard of Canonical insisting on the top bar.

bwDraco

design.ubuntu.com doesn't exist for no reason.

terdon

4:55 PM

@bwDraco Yeah, but all the guidelines I've heard about tended to center on the logos.

See, for instance, the lack of top bar on omgubuntu.co.uk

bwDraco

Perhaps the requirements have been relaxed?

I dunno.

But it's historically something I've noticed with Ask Ubuntu and the text of these Meta posts has long led me to believe SEI is contractually obligated to implement it.

terdon

I really, really don't think the top bar has anything to do with this at all. That was just a joint decision between the two companies. And one I have been against since first joining AU, long before becoming a mod there.

Transcript for