Tavern on the Meta

Shadow Wizard

08:00

@Tinkeringbell smart boy.... :)

Journeyman Geek

Well there's also context

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Don't tell him please ;) Or he'll never listen to me again.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell clearly r/a in my opinion

Journeyman Geek

"Bad things will happen if your actions cause harm to someone I care about" is a bit more acceptable than ... calling someone an idiot.

or actually suggesting threatening them

Magisch

> then that she will have a complicated life if the dogs happen to look at my children. And by complicated I mean hell complicated. Like afraid to leave her apartment complicated.

That is advocating a direct and in most jurisdictions illegal threat of violence

Journeyman Geek

08:04

erm, its worded a bit...

Well, I suppose its implied violence

or IDK, constantly calling the cops?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, but then we have that IPS meta... interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1251/…

Derpy

@ShadowWizard Reductio ad rediculus? Again? Do you really think that "gender pronouns people use " is equal to someone who writes "I think all women are stupid and should never work in programming"?

I said it before and will say it again. We have people that advocate racism on the chat and in answer. We have people that post content that is gender discriminating, advocates illegal behaviors, is homophobic (at the very least) and so on. Yet very often we lose our minds on "minor" thing like "Why user A said 'he' when speaking about user B? A assumed B is male! Discrimination! Burn him!!!"

This "Be nice witch hunt" so far has done little to remove some of the bigger issues

but has created a nice "fear" climate on the chat

which has already scared away some users

@JourneymanGeek "afraid to leave her apartment complicated.". That ix plain threat of violence. You are not "afraid to leave your apartment" because... cops.

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy well depends on the corps

@Derpy Well.. I actually feel that a certain degree of respect for others is essential on chat. But but... if someone crosses the line you're free to speak up

or flag

or meta

By framing this as a "be nice witch hunt" you're kinda feeding the narrative that there's some kind of big conflict.

Personally? If someone isn't going to respect the folks around them, and can't be part of civil society, there's nothing wrong with suggesting they go elsewhere. I don't agree with aspects of SE's approach, but be nice, and civil has been a cornerstone of SE's policies on how we interact.

Tinkeringbell

@Derpy I haven't been around for that long, but I've seen that attitude before the whole 'be nice' push started. And I honestly think that push should go both ways, and handle that kind of behaviour as well....

Magisch

Back to that IPS answer

Tinkeringbell

08:16

Okay :)

Magisch

I think it's actually not something stack should allow on its network

I think it's about as direct of a threat of violence as you can do without outright saying it

Tinkeringbell

So, I've been thinking of either putting it on MSE, or IPS Meta... and you're suggesting MSE might actually be the better place for it?

Magisch

It's dangerous and unsound advice that could get OP thrown in jail

Tinkeringbell

(Because I basically want to override the advice given on IPS meta, bad mod).

Magisch

I would think MSE would be appropriate

I would flag this r/a regardless of which site it was on

advocating violence in the "fighting back" kinda way is miles away from this. This is so far over the line, the line isn't visible anymore

Tinkeringbell

08:18

Maybe I'll just make two posts.

Journeyman Geek

@Tinkeringbell I'd lean towards IPS meta

and maybe if you guys have an CM who is more familiar with you - lots of the beta sites do/did, let them know you need help

Its kinda unique IMO to IPS and maybe WP. There's less ambiguity when dealing with computers

Derpy

@JourneymanGeek No. I mean that there are people that probably could have changed their ways that have instead taken the road of self-removal. While the repeated offenders are still here

But yep, I get your point, sorry for the fuss.

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek just run rm -rf / --no-preserve-root it will solve all your problems

Shadow Wizard

@Tinkeringbell lol... how old is he?

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir do that to a person though.... ;p

Mithrandir

08:24

(CURIOUS PEOPLE DO NOT RUN THE ABOVE COMMAND IT WILL DESTROY YOUR DEVICE)

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy oh, missed "pronouns". No, referring to someone as "he" when they might a "she" isn't big issue IMO and never cause for flagging.

@Mithrandir Windows too?

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir I THINK there's a SU question where someone did this on purpose...

on a running system...
@ShadowWizard misconfigured correctly, maybe

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard He's seventeen now ;) Old enough to stop paying attention :)

Shadow Wizard

> 'rm' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

Lucky me!

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir I'm half certain some distros even stopped you from doing that

Shadow Wizard

08:27

@Tinkeringbell Nice!

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell older then mith

point is age doesn't really signify much these days

Shadow Wizard

Of course

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch it does not

Mithrandir

Monday morning mistake: sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root /

Journeyman Geek

You can be immature at any age

Shadow Wizard

08:27

And mature at any age (almost)

Journeyman Geek

@Mithrandir that one's a hoax

Magisch

I know 30+ year old coworkers with professional degrees and sometimes doctorates who act like children the second things dont go their way

So yea

Mithrandir

@JourneymanGeek yes, i know, i read the whole backstory. was merged with a legit one, no?

Journeyman Geek

yup

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch starting to break random things?

Journeyman Geek

08:28

twas kinda amusing cause ...

Tinkeringbell

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, that's true too (and probably why I couldn't find anything on violent answers on here) :)

Journeyman Geek

I didn't actually care about the lost rep ;p

Magisch

@ShadowWizard pouting and crossing their arms more like

Journeyman Geek

(I'm specifically mentioned in the meta post for some reason)

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch hehe, well, that's kind of OK, no?

Journeyman Geek

08:30

@ShadowWizard which reminds me, I need to take apart a tape recorder tommorrow ;p

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek linky?

Journeyman Geek

130

Q: What to do with the "rm -rf" hoax question

It turns out the the recent question regarding the misuse of rm -rf in Ansible was actually just a hoax (English) in some kind of viral marketing effort. It become quite famous on various media and gathered a large number of views. Since I don't think we should allow ServerFault to be abused in...

discussion

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek lol why?

well, that's disturbing:

Google indexed your login, somehow... @Journeyman o_O

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard I tried to fix it and it runs too fast cause the belts were gone and I switched them

0_0

Shadow Wizard

@JourneymanGeek oh... sad!

Journeyman Geek

08:35

@ShadowWizard naw, its a 5 minute job for someone with smaller hands

not as bad as the speaker I swapped a drone battery into...

and stopped working after a bit cause... probably... dad.

Shadow Wizard

heh

oops lol

submitting feature request to Google: have Chrome remember keyboard language setting for each session and restore it when switching

(just emailed a client in other session)

Mithrandir

yucky indeed

That... probably made no sense to anyone besides @Sha

Journeyman Geek

@ShadowWizard that ... seems odd

rene

08:55

@ShadowWizard /me wonders what Yaki means...

Magisch

Is this worth flagging? meta.stackexchange.com/a/311981

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch I'd rather see it downvoted TBH

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch ah, that one...

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek Same ish here. But I wonder if it does need deleted somehow

Journeyman Geek

hmm

Shadow Wizard

08:59

@rene יקי

Magisch

since it's a lot of insults and passive agressive language and a bunch of off topic political ranting

Journeyman Geek

On one hand. ugh.

On the other hand, it feels more effective to show people disagree than to sweep that under the rug

Shadow Wizard

Poor rug. All the bad things are always swept under it. Anyone ever stopped to think how the rug feels about it??? :D

Journeyman Geek

it must be a very lumpy rug

rene

@Magisch depends for what but if you think that is rude/abusive I disagree.

Magisch

09:02

@rene was thinking more along the lines of NAA

rene

I hardly ever cast an NAA flag on MSE. It is just opinions which most often answer a question ...

Magisch

It's basicly ignoring the posed questions (What about that comment rule enforcement) and is like "We should have no standards and this is all because of liberalism and this is how trump won and we shouldn't expect civility at all anywhere"

Only being mildly reductive

Shadow Wizard

@rene agreed. Supporting being rude isn't rude by itself, there's no direct insult or rudeness in that answer.

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch and/or is a critique of the overall culture that's resuting in these initiatives

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek I guess you can infer it that way

rene

09:04

@Magisch Having the position that no standards should apply is a valid answer to should rules be enforced. I give you that I hope it will not become a popular position ...

Magisch

But it reads to me like a general rant at SE's rules

rene

Sure

And that is allowed

Magisch

The question is is that on topic

Journeyman Geek

but it feels like a valid, if disagreeable point of view

Magisch

I guess I'll stick with the downvote for now

Tinkeringbell

09:07

@Magisch I think a downvote is good enough for that ;). Especially after 'questions? thoughts? have at it.'

These are thoughts :P

Mithrandir

a downvote for your thoughts

Shadow Wizard

oh, charcoal-se.org/people.html should be updated, there's no "zaq" anymore. @Andy @ArtOfCode

Magisch

doesn't he change his name weekly?

Shadow Wizard

not anymore... I assume he'll now stick with the SO user ID for good.

Magisch

why?

Shadow Wizard

09:16

@Magisch he deleted his MSE account, and it's the first time ever I see him using such a "name", looks like he... gave up or something.

Probably putting "Normal Human" on that Charcoal People page will be best, that's how most of us know him.

Magisch

@ShadowWizard do you know why?

Shadow Wizard

@Magisch nope. Though it's strange he did it almost in same time as @Telkitty, who also deleted only her MSE account. Maybe those two are related somehow.. no idea.

More likely it's the dark cloud hovering over SE though.

Tinkeringbell

@ShadowWizard Let's not talk about dark clouds on this sunny day.

Which is waay to hot btw.

John Dvorak

Electric Light Orchestra - Mr. Blue Sky (Official Music Video)

►

Somewhat Memorable Name

I guess I missed quite a lot of interesting Tavern convo just now...

While I was monitoring a rollback war between 1-rep new user and a site's mod...

Derpy

09:28

@JohnDvorak you should have linked something from Owl City, like Gold or Wings to The Sky. :P

@ShadowWizard That is the cloud I was talking about before.

John Dvorak

There's a unique opportunity to see Rene's family being happy for once, though

(2:00)

Derpy

@JohnDvorak already told you....

Somewhat Memorable Name

@Magisch it's a mystery. I thought he was just fooling around by deleting and recreating his account just like usual, but... no. He didn't come back to MSE anymore.

Derpy

^ this is @rene family. He is the one on the left with the green shirt

Somewhat Memorable Name

a spoiler is fine too

Shadow Wizard

09:32

@SomewhatMemorableName who won? ;)

@Derpy not sure... it consists of many small clouds.

@JohnDvorak who is Rene?

John Dvorak

Shadow Wizard

Brother of Balpha?

Derpy

@SomewhatMemorableName To be fair, to understand one probably already has to know ^_^'

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName no, this time I'm afraid it's final.

Somewhat Memorable Name

@ShadowWizard (apparently not a site's mod, but a CM actually :)

Derpy

09:36

@ShadowWizard "Let's moderate grammar instead of moderating meaning" still must be somewhere in the middle ^_^'. Which obviously is a really wise decision, especially if the userbase isn't exactly 100% English mother-language in the first place

Somewhat Memorable Name

err, as a bonus, the user got a 7-day break to cool down...

Tinkeringbell

@SomewhatMemorableName If those breaks really cool people down, I could use one! :D It's still hot.

Magisch

10:33

@Tinkeringbell dont say that too loud a cm might take you up on that :p

(I jest)

It's projected to not go below 29C for the next two weeks here

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName oh. Hope the CM is OK...

@SomewhatMemorableName so it wasn't Shog... he would have given at least a year. ;)

Better not make Shog angry!

@Tinkeringbell in Israel we got a relatively "cool" day today, only 28 degrees. (celcius)

Average is around 30, previous years had 35-40 in beginning of July...

@Magisch how can a centimeter do that? :P

SmokeDetector

10:55

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: How to resolve epson printer ERROR CODE 0XF1? by Padol Panthong on askubuntu.com

Martin James

@Magisch 29:( That's bad in a country that builds long, thin greenhouses with open ends, runs rails through them and calls them an 'S-Bahn station' instead of 'passenger-cooker'.

Shadow Wizard

lol

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I haven't seen long term predictions and if they're that depressing I don't want too :P

@ShadowWizard I'm guessing 28 over there might be a lot better than 28 over here? What's the humidity like?

Shadow Wizard

Here it's easy: June to September is "Hot", "Very Hot", and "Really Really Hot".

This week we have 5 days of Hot, then 2 days are expected to be "Very Hot".

(tomorrow and the next day)

@Tinkeringbell around 60%, so the "feels like" is around 30

Tinkeringbell

Nothing under 20 here the next two weeks (and only a day or two under 25). So, too much of really, really hot

Shadow Wizard

11:01

Weird, thought it's always cold/cool in Europe.

Tinkeringbell

I probably angered the weather gods in some way.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in body, pattern-matching website in body, blacklisted user: How toconnect my epson printer with my laptop? by Padol Panthong on askubuntu.com

Martin James

@ShadowWizard It's cool/warm on a large island, like here, with gulf stream etc. Germany seems to be Sahara/Siberia whenever I'm there.

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell They predict at least 95 days of >25C summer days with at least 8 hours of sunshine this year

It's gonna suck in august and september

wtb climate change in the opposite direction

Tinkeringbell

I'm all for a small ice age! :)

Magisch

11:04

I dont ask for much

Just not consistently over 28C with pure sun

Tinkeringbell

I want to hunt a mammoth.

Magisch

that's annoying and bad for the plants

Tinkeringbell

True.

Magisch

Have you read about the size of those? At that rate, the mammoth is hunting you

Mgetz

@Magisch Houston called, it said you an keep it's weather

Tinkeringbell

11:05

@Magisch Why? If primitive man could hunt mammoths, so can I!

I'll also settle for a sabre-toothed squirrel as a pet.

Mgetz

jalopnik.com/…

Martin James

You could get a lot of BBQ off a mammoth.

Magisch

@Mgetz Houston can keep its houston

I wanna move to coastal scotland

Tinkeringbell

@MartinJames Yep. Although an ice age doesn't really make for good BBQ weather?

Mgetz

@Magisch so the problem is houston has tropical jungle weather right now... so it can't do much about your issues ;p

Martin James

11:08

@Magisch You mean 'where the distilleries are'?

rene

Do I miss the sarcasm here or are they serious? In case of the latter are they more replying to Animuson then anything else?

Martin James

@Tinkeringbell The ice ages thaw out - I saw it in a movie:)

Tinkeringbell

@MartinJames Hmmm.. question for Seasoned Advice then? How to keep a mammoth fresh until the end of the ice age.

@rene I'm only seeing nonsense... but then again, I'm the third Dutch person :P

Martin James

@Tinkeringbell Well, it's an ice age - refrigeration shouldn't be a big problem.

Tinkeringbell

@MartinJames True... but once it starts thawing... you'll probably have a period of days where it's above zero but not warm enough for a bbq?

SmokeDetector

11:21

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Media Creation Tool and Windows 10 Education Edition by lucyjohn987 on superuser.com

Martin James

@Tinkeringbell Wrap up warm - mammoth fur should do it. There will be plenty lying around.

Tinkeringbell

Too practical :P I don't want a solution that's that easy!

Martin James

OK, you will look like Cousin Itt, but... mammoth burgers:)

Tinkeringbell

How many burgers do you think you could get from 1 mammoth?

Martin James

@Tinkeringbell I guess it depends on size. The quarter-tonners, not so many.

Tinkeringbell

11:25

This needs some exact math, I don't want to run out! There's 50 people on the guest list :)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in answer, blacklisted website in answer: custom comment_form fields not displaying by Sophia Adams on wordpress.SE

Martin James

@Tinkeringbell The bread is going to be the bigger problem:(

Tinkeringbell

@MartinJames We'll do keto burgers then ;)

Martin James

..and the barrels of mustard and trucks of onion.

rene

@Tinkeringbell yeah, let's not make the mistake that being Dutch becomes the new norm on SE ... bad things will happen ;)

Magisch

11:28

Meat bun with meat and extra meet and diced meat sauce and spreadable meat instead of cheese

Martin James

The buns would be the luxury item.

Tinkeringbell

@rene Yeah, people are getting annoyed already :P

@MartinJames Maybe we can mass produce the buns and refrigerate them before the ice age fully starts?

Martin James

@Tinkeringbell Maybe. Shove 'em in containers and cycle them through a glacier. As the bun-containers and mammoth carcasses emerge during the thaw, keep up with the receeding glacier, Maybe with a gas BBQ on wheels.

Derpy

> one day... one day yer old friend Deborah Kurata will discover powerpoint presentations can have other background colors and not just eye-burning white. Until then, may the FLux gods be on your side.

Martin James

Imma going to have to design a Worldbuilding Q. about mammoth BBQ now.

Tinkeringbell

11:34

Yay. We're now prepared for an ice age.

@MartinJames Lemme know once it's posted! I want to make the first smart answer/comment there XD

Derpy

dang Deborah, why all you pluralsight courses require sunglasses?

John Dvorak

11:47

because they are so brilliant?

rene

12:32

Maybe the suggested edit needs a reject?

Shadow Wizard

13:20

@rene what edit? You linked to some off topic MSE question...

ugh... I surely didn't miss this user... (crappy answer here)... :/

Looks like they're posting bad contents on purpose, really and honestly can't explain it otherwise.

Mithrandir

@ShadowWizard there had been a suggested edit on that question

Shadow Wizard

13:39

oh... what a waste of time.

Somewhat Memorable Name

@rene Dutch Overflow?

@ShadowWizard oh, that user. Surprisingly some of their questions got into HNQ.

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName heh...

please flag comment as "not needed": meta.stackexchange.com/questions/312030/…

It's just confusing the OP and making them think such questions are on topic.

I'm starting to get really annoyed at users who are clueless about MSE and only cause damage.

Somewhat Memorable Name

So... there are some users who have MSE as the highest rep, as in... more than 10x the highest rep on other site...

Shadow Wizard

13:57

@SomewhatMemorableName for me only 2x

oh you mean that user with weird unicode name... yeah. The avatar is familiar, but can't remember their previous, non weird, name.

but fact is, they do not know how MSE works.

Somewhat Memorable Name

oh, apparently only 5x, but I'm thinking of this user

because of accidental browsing on Meta IPS

Random topic change: I think there really should be a board game with Stack Exchange theme

Shadow Wizard

58

Q: Would you play a Stack Overflow board game?

I've just been alerted to a company which produces board games - you design the game, artwork 'n all, and upload the assets to them. They produce the game and sell it in their store, taking half the profits. I'm a big board game fan (1), and would love to help design a board game around Stack Ov...

discussion fun addiction

SmokeDetector

14:26

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body: Im Looking for 2D Artist Remote Job by Dmitry Veseliy on gamedev.SE

Derpy

@JohnDvorak because white.

she only knows white

3 hours ago, by Derpy

> one day... one day yer old friend Deborah Kurata will discover powerpoint presentations can have other background colors and not just eye-burning white. Until then, may the FLux gods be on your side.

Shadow Wizard

15:22

and so it begins...

Derpy

be honest, post a reply that will cause a lot of hurt (at least to me, since free downvotes!) or let it be and have fun watching?

Somewhat Memorable Name

Who are lemur, penguin, and python? Who am I???

Shadow Wizard

@SomewhatMemorableName LOL... Google assigns it in random

Somewhat Memorable Name

Ok, now an armadillo just came in, and gone... replaced by jackalope

Shadow Wizard

and Chris Jaeger is there too!

Somewhat Memorable Name

15:31

> Expulsion from Stack Overflow

I'm curious how they will enforce that, like... IP ban? Account merge to /dev/null?

Tinkeringbell

:( will have to reign in the curiosity for a long while: mobile won't open docs

@SomewhatMemorableName maybe just suspend for a very long time?

HDE 226868

15:47

@SomewhatMemorableName I'm wondering if that simply means account deletion.

Kevin B

15:59

> Address it directly. If you’re comfortable addressing the person who instigated it, let them know how this behavior affects you or others.

that... seems really counterproductive to me

Somewhat Memorable Name

CAPITAL BOLD "IF"

For a 1-rep user... I dunno.

Kevin B

i mean.. sure... but i can't see it having a positive result even for those comfortable with it

Somewhat Memorable Name

We have seen that happened many times here... done by our heroes, the ROs...

Magisch

@KevinB I'd expect comments addressing the conduct of other users who chose to comment to be off topic for what comments are supposed to be

So Idk what this would achieve besides creating more work for mods to delete - maybe I'm overthinking it

Kevin B

^

and frankly... i'd find it offensive if someone did that to me. If my comment is against coc i'd expect it to be deleted, and enough of them result in a mod contact or a warning in my inbox.

Somewhat Memorable Name

16:13

Well, what if the mods who write the CoC reminder instead, just like the usual "please Be Nice" comments?

Kevin B

i don't comprehend

Somewhat Memorable Name

I've seen some high-rep regulars or even site mods reminding a user to Be Nice through comments. I guess that won't change with soon-to-be CoC.

Magisch

As I said, maybe I'm simply overthinking it, but it sounds like it'll be more work for mods to clean up after the fact

That is assuming some people don't completly lose their temper when called out on being somewhat mean (which will happen with no prior warning)

Kevin B

assuming people actually do it

it's one of those wait and see. If it results in the kind of flag war we ended up with in js chat...

Magisch

Based on my experience of how mental people get over single downvotes, I don't want to know what a person with a short fuse and some retrograde beliefs will do if I tell them to cut comment insults

I can imagine this getting extra shitshow in chat where people have more tribal mentality

Maybe a general "Just flag" would be better

And then somehow removing the stigma from flags

Somewhat Memorable Name

16:23

Well, dunno. The suggestion ends with

> If the behavior escalates, disengage immediately -- staff or moderators will take action.

Magisch

You know how it is, people read the part they want to "but they said its ok to call this out in comments"

Also just because you then disengaged after someone got really hurtful in response to a polite pointer doesn't un-insult you or restore hurt feelings

Somewhat Memorable Name

I faced that few hours ago, when a 1-rep new user rolled back my edit and badmouthing the community. I only commented once then backed off.

Coincidentally, a CM came just in time even without any flagging.

That user got suspended. I moved on.

Kevin B

there will always be edge cases

Magisch

As for recommending stack overflow to my friends, I'm not sure (but not because of this). This site has incredibly high standards for people who stick around but not really for fire and forget askers. "Expect to be held to the highest standard of behavior while the people you're interacting with aren't" is a tough sell on my friends, who already distrust stack overflow in general due to recent events. Mind you, I've gotten quite a bit of flak both on here and offline for even being involved in certain stack communities that are percieved as too concerned about niceness. Idk — Magisch 6 mins ago

I have trouble parsing this thought into constructive feedback, any ideas?

Somewhat Memorable Name

TBH, I never recommend SO to my friends. I only recommended once to a friend, but he was just lazy to write the question (no other reasons), so I did that instead (the only question I posted on SO).

Tinkeringbell

17:19

@Magisch so, the flak you're getting... Is it because those people feel the internet is allowed to be harsh, or because they think you're too soft for being in a place that tries to be nicer?

Magisch

Bit of that and a bit of that they see this as a politicised move and think the politics behind it are responsible for most social woes of today

And see my not quitting as tacit endorsement of that

Tinkeringbell

Hmmm. And the fire and forget part? Are the fire and forget people actually less nice, or is it more the long term commitment part that requires more patience?

Magisch

It is that the fire and forget people dont have to be nice - they dont care

They dont have to care because they're not invested in the community

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch That's probably a problem no policy will ever solve... But it may be eased by having nice people around you that focus on compliments and small successes ;)

So, you're basically trying to say that the new coc won't increase the chances of you recommending SO to your friends, but that's because of your friends? ;)

Magisch

I'm not entirely sure

that answer is mostly unfocused thoughts

Tinkeringbell

17:28

I'll be right back to help.. I'm getting a chance to use a burner and burn some ants first... Maniacal laughing

I think your answer as is, is fine.

Do your friends tie into any of the things you've said there?

Did you phrase certain things the way you did because of what they told you?

(I seem to get that that first change you're suggesting might be related to the whole 'fire and forget' users?)

Magisch

I lost contact with some acquaintances because the whole debate brought out really ugly sides in them

And I'm just generally exhausted justifying my participation here to friends in the context of the whole "You're supporting this culture of hypersensitivity" kind of thing

The fire and forget users more relate to a flaw in my argument as to why it's worth spending time here

Like I said, it seems like new users (because stack has no influence on them) don't really have to consistently adhere to the CoC. But you have to. It's a tough sell.

Tinkeringbell

17:44

@Magisch The IPS answer to that one is 'set a boundary'. In this case, very unhelpful.

I must admit I don't have people in my environment that a) know what SE is and b) hold the opinion that stuff is getting hypersensitive.

Mithrandir

@Magisch New users are under the exact same obligations as established users. The difference is simply that new users don't know what's expected of them when they first arrive (or, in some cases, just refuse). This results in established users knowing the rules, and on the whole abiding by them, while new users don't know the rules, and so break them, and then they are informed of the rules.

Magisch

@Mithrandir Which lends itself to the perception that rules are only for established users and new users are free to ignore them (because they are. Unless the misstep is egregious a warning is all they'll get and gleefully ignore in many cases)

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir And point of Magisch's story: after they are informed of the rules they still don't care or you never see them adhere to it, since they're one-time askers

The only positive I can see is 'you never see them adhere to it because they're gone'... I get that isn't very satisfying because there might always be a new horde storming the gates...

But in a way, it's like the ants I just burned... They're gone, won't be coming back, because they realised their attitude isn't welcome?

Magisch

I fully admit I don't have the emotional energy or coherence to make that argument properly to my friends

The point is I would need to make it lately so I've avoided the stack issue entirely

I actually hate arguing about feelings with people because it's always so nebulous

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, you need really good friends who have a whole lot of empathy to even get close to having a conversation about it :/

Somewhat Memorable Name

17:50

TBH, I don't expose myself to my friends if I'm active on SE...

Tinkeringbell

@SomewhatMemorableName So you do if you're offline? :P

Somewhat Memorable Name

And out of everyone who I know in real-life, I only knew 1 colleague (who sits beside me) who asked on SO rarely, and he went so-so (no negative scored posts at the moment)... so....

Tinkeringbell

I'd probably never recommend SE to my friends... but that's mainly because my best friends right now have totally different interests and don't speak English that well

(So they aren't interested in reading anything in English)

Somewhat Memorable Name

yeah, that's understandable.

Tinkeringbell

That said, where do I find smarter friends, any recommendations? :)

Somewhat Memorable Name

17:59

On knowledge-sharing sites! Like Yahoo! Answers...

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