Tavern on the Meta

Catija

00:36

I'm 25K now!!! Now I have nothing to look forward to until 100K now.

2

hey

erm morning.

still too sleepy

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@Catija Too bad they stopped giving out unicorn paintings to those with 200k+ rep

Journeyman Geek

01:27

@Catija alas

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog 0_0

there's supposed to be a 250K swag tier

Catija

Apparently there's also a 1 m swag tier.

Journeyman Geek

Aka Jon Skeet?

Catija

yar.

Journeyman Geek

Even at my best... that... could take a while

hey

01:48

@SmokeDetector naa-

ArtOfCode

01:58

@Catija pretty sure that's "go to HQ and be on a podcast and other cool things"

Catija

Sounds good to me :D

Journeyman Geek

@ArtOfCode I'd find that mildly terrifying XD

Anonymous

02:39

A long time ago, in a blog not too far away, someone said "If we don’t do our part to cull the bad questions, then we risk alienating the true experts who provide what really matters: the answers!" — Antti Haapala Apr 30 at 13:47

Anonymous

06:14

"we are here to create an artifact that will help the next person who has that question" is a fundamental flaw of the description of the site, that should be a side effect, not the goal. — Nick Larsen ♦ Apr 28 at 20:52

Anonymous

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Anonymous

can somebody else please spare a delete vote and purge this heresy?

Journeyman Geek

heh

But leaving it there lets the world see what people think of it?

hey

I'm afraid deleting that will count as "censoring"...

Suraj Rao

heresy is downvoted not deleted... odd that an employee does not know the site goals..

hey

06:26

I only regret that the answer forgot a disclaimer "This is personal view, not SE's view", but the OP doesn't seem to get that hint even after the comment storms...

Journeyman Geek

heh

Not everyone is aware of 'hats'

also erm

TheLittleNaruto

06:45

Yo @Journey o/

Journeyman Geek

hi

TheLittleNaruto

Can we add 404 page link in "parent user" section of chat profile page ?

Travis J

@Catija That's exactly how 30, 40, 50, and 60 felt.

I am guessing 70, 80, and 90 will be similar

Journeyman Geek

07:02

@TravisJ heh

I actually stopped caring about rep until I got close to 100k on SU

and I focus on interesting problems over trying to get on the rep train anyway

Travis J

For a decent amount of time (years) I would try to just do 1k a month-ish, so that my x years y months translated to xyk rep. 6 years, 6 months, would be 66k rep. I kind of dropped off though, only at 60k.

Journeyman Geek

I used to do one answer a day

Travis J

I would do like 20 in a week and then just go afk for the rest of the month :P

(lurk)

Can't really answer everything anymore though.

I mean, you could, but then you have to spend 10 times as much time arguing about who should answer what, what should go where, why the freaking cookie jar has peanuts in it and the peanut butter got made with almonds, etc. etc.

Journeyman Geek

well the one answer a day had some advantages - the time spent per question could be maximised (not that all my high scoring answers were... well thought of), and It worked ?

hah

@TravisJ that's totally meta though

and SE in some respects

Travis J

I think that too much meta has spilled into the main sites.

Martin James

07:13

@JourneymanGeek Our govt. here in the UK promotes 'Five a day'

Travis J

It's because I mentioned cookies, isn't it.

hey

07:43

The more you answer, the less you answer because you realized you have answered that and VtC as dupe instead...

Journeyman Geek

@hey oh

erm. I'm not a fan of closing as dupe on meta.

At least not as fast as some folk

I see meta is being a bit of a helpdesk type thing too, and if we're closing stuff too fast, it seems slightly user hostile

Travis J

@hey Is that why you haven't answered for 2 and a half years? :P

Journeyman Geek

I'll take the rep hit if stuff gets nuked later, but I'd rather stuff gets answered unless its a complete dupe

hey

Meanwhile, I have a userscript request to check if the question I'm currently reading is currently on HNQ. Can use the unofficial HNQ API. Not sure if I should request it on MSE or StackApp...

or probably I should learn how userscript works and how JavaScript works...

Travis J

Maybe privileges should be tied to some sort of sliding window of reputation to make sure that users remain up to date on what the current environment of the sites are.

Journeyman Geek

07:51

hah

shakes a fist at JohnT

Travis J

lol

(I got that reference)

Journeyman Geek

0_0

Really?

You'd need to know he was 1 position above me on the SU rep standings ;p

Travis J

The guy that always finds odd bugs and posts them on meta? Wrong John?

Journeyman Geek

wrong John

Travis J

(I missed that reference)

hey

07:52

@JourneymanGeek well, at one time, I took a crusade to read all SE Android app open bug reports and feature-requests ... and some were dupes though...

Journeyman Geek

Early user who went up to 100K on SU and vanished

Travis J

hm

Well the remark still stands :D

hey

(and then the development's halted ._.)

Journeyman Geek

ah ya

tbh, in my opinion that's kind of one of the weak points of SE as an organisation :(

There's a lot of projects that got started, then... folk seemingly lost interest

Travis J

I think the people with the most talent got all tied into ensuring the site scaled well.

Journeyman Geek

07:56

Well...

hey

was that Jeff?

Travis J

Since the site is constantly scaling, the talent drain into that sector is immense.

What do I know though, that is pure conjecture. Could be way off.

Journeyman Geek

It might be entirely unfair but I think the focus went from "being focused on building the core product" to "being focused on side products"

some of which made money (careers) but slightly hurt the core product in terms of attention

The big advantage they had in the early years is they were laser focused on the QA platform

This is mostly conjecture of course

hey

and me still poking for fun at SOTV...

Journeyman Geek

@hey which comes into "Its done, what next?"

and side projects

I don't even remember SOTV

hey

08:03

early sunset...

Journeyman Geek

@hey or realising that most devs, and even random computery types who don't code are text based entities.

Derpy

@hey Shimmer?

rene

08:25

→ 6 messages moved to Chimney

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: how can we download the old version of any app in i phone 8? by Ludovico Cesaro on apple.SE

Journeyman Geek

08:55

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310422/… the temptation to answer yes, then fill it with a ton of non breaking spaces is tempting.

John Dvorak

Setting up a bad example that would be. The doings of their masters people watch and obey.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Phone number detected in answer: After an update of ESET smart security, error message pops up on Windows 7 by jon smith on superuser.com

πάντα ῥεῖ

sd tpu-

gnat

09:10

20

A: Are we abusing our delete votes on Meta?

I took a look at the posts with pending delete votes here (~19 answers) and those that've been deleted by vote at some point (20 answers). For the most part, we're not actually deleting anything of value. And of course, 10K users can verify this by checking the list of recently-deleted posts no...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in answer: Is there Zakat on land purchased for the purpose of saving + Is there Zakat on land purchased for reselling by user27757 on islam.SE

SmokeDetector

09:31

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Were the Bavarian Illuminati actually Luciferians? by Dr Oboite on philosophy.SE

hey

@SmokeDetector Illuminati recruitment in the public. If it's so easy to join like that...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Non-Latin link in answer: How to meet my Persian girlfriend in Iran and have privacy while not being married? by villexer.com on travel.SE

πάντα ῥεῖ

sd tpu-

Derpy

@hey illuminati recruitment would be far less noticeable than that..

Disguising your infrastructure as a group of fans of a kids-show... now that would be brilliant.

πάντα ῥεῖ

I flagged that as spam anyways.

Derpy

09:45

you could probably even post you secret messages in plain sight on a public forum and chat site disguised as obscure references to a show and no one would notice.

SmokeDetector

09:56

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Are there programs to create and edit SVG animations? by user201117 on superuser.com

πάντα ῥεῖ

sd tp-

Derpy

10:13

it is just me or the room has gotten a lot more... silent? since the whole "be nice - third time is a charm" thing?

hey

without the kitty and SE news ticker? probably.

but it's a slow Monday for me anyway...

πάντα ῥεῖ

Tumbleweed - perfect for every awkward moment

►

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Email in body: Uk visit visa refusal due to misunderstanding by Vani on travel.SE

πάντα ῥεῖ

What happened to @bro BTW?

hey

just casually deleted his MSE account as usual

(real reason unknown)

πάντα ῥεῖ

10:19

Hmm, I miss TK, and yve's leaving the room as soon I appear. :-/

hey

Turned out Tavern is bleak without cats...

πάντα ῥεῖ

And chickens ...

Derpy

I see a dark wind blowing thru...
I see days neither fun or free...
I see a future caused by you...
I see a path not meant to be....

πάντα ῥεῖ

Meme overflow ...

I’m Tibetan, I’m Buddhist and I’m the Dalai Lama, but if I emphasize these differences it sets me apart and raises barriers with other people. What we need to do is to pay more attention to the ways in which we are the same as other people.

Tweeted by DalaiLama on May 21, 2018 at 9:35 AM

SmokeDetector

10:37

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Linked punctuation in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Computer will not turn on unless I hold the power button down by emulen on superuser.com

πάντα ῥεῖ

sd why

SmokeDetector

[:6966222] Body - Position 215-228: cputemper.com
Body - Position 230-261: rel="nofollow noreferrer">.</a>

πάντα ῥεῖ

@SmokeDetector tpu-

SmokeDetector

10:52

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in answer: How do I play m3u8 files? by angiepuller on askubuntu.com

Suraj Rao

11:11

@πάνταῥεῖ got closed in area51 area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/109898/…

πάντα ῥεῖ

LOL, something as expected of course

Mgetz

Derpy

it's already Caturday?

Mgetz

@Derpy it's always Caturday

Derpy

11:28

waiting for updates...

Mgetz

@Derpy do they make the keyboard more comfy?

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Derpy I am afraid we're back to this point

1 hour ago, by πάντα ῥεῖ

Tumbleweed - perfect for every awkward moment

►

Derpy

if you prefer, I can always replace the cats with candy pastel color ponies

Martin James

12:06

@Derpy The Russian Blue Screen Of Death?

Mgetz

12:28

@MartinJames groan

Anonymous

13:01

@gnat yes, do that.

hey

14:07

This is too silent...

Derpy

zzzZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZZZ

Suraj Rao

The tavern is deserted.. no drinks

hey

chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/5/the-so-tavern-free-snacks

The future of this room...

Mgetz

Am I the only one that things that discussion should be banned from gold badges?

The reason being it gives users with said badges waaaaay too much power

Shog9

howso?

πάντα ῥεῖ

14:17

Because of the frequency of the tag they probably mean.

Shog9

18

Q: Should gold tag badges in required tags on meta provide insta-close-dupe functionality?

I am, apparently, one of 12 people with the gold tag badge for feature-request and one of 39 people with the gold tag badge for discussion here on meta.se. I hadn't realized this until I cast a close as duplicate vote, then was shocked (and awed) by the power unleashed. Unicorns came from everyw...

But I'm more curious about the "waaaay too much power" assertion

you get ... the normal amount of power for a gold badge

dup closing and reopening

once per question

rene

@Mgetz I like my power. Specially if I can abuse it ...

Derpy

May 10 at 12:53, by Derpy

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Dupehammer in discussion . Don't tell me that wouldn't make sense to you?

Mgetz

@Shog9 Exactly that

I don't think required tags should allow dupe hammer or any other mod functionality

Shog9

why?

πάντα ῥεῖ

14:21

why?

Mgetz

@Shog9 Because there is no such thing as expertise in discussion

Shog9

oh?

Mgetz

so having the power to say something is an instant dupe is a bit overboard

ancillary tags... potentially but not the required tags for anyone not staff

Derpy

and make it two since I to assumed the badge power was meant to reward expertise in a field.

Shog9

I feel like you're just jealous of my gold discussion badge

Derpy

14:23

Expertise in discussion...

Mgetz

and even then I'd probably limit that power to feature-request

Discrete lizard

@Mgetz Why not? Mediation is a skill.

Mgetz

@Shog9 You feel incorrectly Padawan, I could care less about your badge

Derpy

Really, Shog? Like you wouldn't be able to do the same without the badge -_-'

Mgetz

I'm more concerned about people shooting first and looking later based on titles

Shog9

14:24

@Mgetz but you're specifically concerned about people with gold discussion badges doing that.

hey

I'm more concerned about people who request gold-badger to dupehammer something...

Mgetz

@Shog9 Given that I don't know off the top of my head the other required tags, we'll go with yes for now. I think it would have to be a tag by tag thing anyway. If someone is really familiar with feature-request they should be able to dupe.

Shog9

@Derpy Well, if you wanna go that route... I'm not limited by the restrictions of gold badge closing. I can close any question for any reason with a single vote, repeatedly if I wish to. That's a lot more power to abuse than what gold badge holders get.

Mgetz

@Shog9 We should give you special unicorn pony closing powers next April 1st

Shog9

@Mgetz so what makes [discussion] special?

Mgetz

14:27

@Shog9 Mostly the fact that it's so generic as to be on the vast majority of questions.

Shog9

and don't give me the "no experts in this tag" thing again, everyone says that about every tag they're not particularly active in - have you seen the burninate requests on meta SO?

Mgetz

@Shog9 Nope but I'm not calling for it to be burninated

Shog9

if you're gonna argue that [discussion] is so generic as to be meaningless, then you're arguing for getting rid of the tag - which is a big deal, so don't half-ass it.

Mgetz

@Shog9 I didn't say it was meaningless?

Shog9

if you're not arguing for that, then be specific about the problem you're seeing

because up to now, your only argument has been...

7 mins ago, by Mgetz

@Shog9 Because there is no such thing as expertise in discussion

Derpy

14:29

counter question, please explain why a gold badge owner gets the closure power

Mgetz

@Shog9 I'm just going to shut up, it's clear at this point I've already lost

Shog9

...which, again, I've seen folks make this same argument for countless technologies on SO proper, and it always just means they can't be bothered to learn anything about the topic and are annoyed that other people might be experts in it.

Mgetz

Something that I didn't even care to win

Shog9

If you've seen abuse, then you should be able to talk about it.

rene

You can't be in an expert in discussion. Demonstrated daily on your local meta ...

Shog9

14:30

If you're just tossing out the specter of abuse because you saw a tag and - with no research - decided that no one could possibly be more knowledgeable than yourself... Then go do that research.

Mgetz

@Shog9 I never said I saw abuse

Shog9

@Mgetz you said and I quote, "it gives users with said badges waaaaay too much power"

hey

@Derpy that's why tag score is not a good indicator for expertise. Answering 1000 basic questions and getting 1 upvote each will get a gold badge too.

rene

@hey still up to the hammer if they honor the request....

Shog9

now, if they weren't abusing that power, surely it wouldn't be "waaaaay too much" power?

it'd be... "a sufficient amount of power for the work that they do"

Mgetz

14:31

@Shog9 I still believe that to be true, as it allows them to shoot first and ask questions later based on title.

Moreover it prevents review of that close vote

Shog9

or perhaps even, "more power than non-badge holders get, but still less than what they would need to cause trouble"

so the implication of your statement is that there is abuse

rene

@Mgetz re-open vote in that case

Mgetz

Regardless I'm done with this conversation

Shog9

why would you bring this up if you hadn't observed abuse?

hey

@rene the hammer will ham the doer

rene

14:33

if you say so ..

Shog9

is there even a hypothetical scenario in which the badge would allow untoward behavior in a way that doesn't apply to every other tag?

Mgetz

@Shog9 I have on multiple other sites, even others in this room have mentioned times they've had to badger gold badge holder to undupe things

rene

I'm not allowed to make mistakes?

Shog9

certain people in this room badger gold badge holders to do everything... That's not necessarily a commentary on the badge holders so much as it is on the badgers.

hey

@rene Say that to the mods too :)

Mgetz

14:34

Monty Python's Flying Circus - COMPLETE Spanish Inquisition

►

@rene clearly I already have, I said something

rene

yes, but we like the discussion

Mgetz

@rene This wasn't a discussion it was interrogation

rene

If you have 1500 rep you can add that tag to your question.

Expect Shog9 to be the first gold badge holder for that tag ...

Mgetz

@rene I don't on meta anymore due to the split, and It'll get immediately burninateed

rene

Yep, happy to help

canon

15:14

SE identity crisis, or what?

incredibly entertaining, at any rate /popcorn

rene

With salt?

πάντα ῥεῖ

And loads of butter

canon

mhmm

@Shog9 gold badge badgers... hmmm

Catija

Do they get a special day like Groundhogs?

rene

It will probably be a public shaming, if anything. Don't have high expectations

Feeds

15:31

Support your local paper, unless it's just been bought by some sinister hedge fund or something, which it probably has.

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

17:14

chaos-emerald-pls one-more-close-vote-needed meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310413/… (@rene)

πάντα ῥεῖ

Reason?

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

Maybe you should check the question and proposed duplicate

πάντα ῥεῖ

17:32

I am not always trusting @gnat's ubiquitous dupe proposals.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: What would be a suitable aircraft for a short haul freight forwarding business? by Greg on aviation.SE

πάντα ῥεῖ

sd tpu-

Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog

@πάνταῥεῖ Well, me and three other users did

πάντα ῥεῖ

What's the reason you need to amplify so much? This isn't the MSECVR.

SmokeDetector

17:59

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, toxic answer detected: Why does the potential difference between two charged plates increase as they move further apart? by jada on physics.SE

πάντα ῥεῖ

sd naa

SmokeDetector

@πάνταῥεῖ [:6967988] Recorded answer as an NAA in metasmoke.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@SmokeDetector tpu-

SmokeDetector

18:39

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, blacklisted website in answer: How to download all YouTube playlists as .csv by Fred Green on webapps.SE

Mgetz

@rene Honestly this whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. I understand what shog was asking but it came across as inquisitorial and not thought provoking.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@SmokeDetector tpu-

rene

@Mgetz sure. Keep in mind the floating head is doing this debating stuff for a living so he tends to be pretty good at it. This does mean that if you bring something to the table you need your back covered with facts. Just give it retry if you have some evidence. I hammered plenty of stuff both on MSE and MSO so my profile is a good start to collect "abuse" cases.

Or at least conflict of interest

Mgetz

@rene I'd consider what I said to shog to be feedback: focus on getting the other person to think about it instead of debating it.

rene

I don't expect shog9 needs us to give him something to think about ;)

Mgetz

18:54

indubitably

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Mgetz Remember this morning: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/6966216#6966216

Mgetz

@πάνταῥεῖ hence why I said feedback instead of seeing it as anything else... honestly I feel like I hit him with it before he had his coffee

rene

totally possible. Maybe try again on Friday, during Happy Hour ..

Mgetz

@rene They allow shog to drink... oh my

πάντα ῥεῖ

You should be a bit more emphatic with people before they had their 1st coffee in the morning. Believe me, I am an expert on drugs.

Catija

18:58

@Mgetz You say "allow" like he needs permission.

Mgetz

@Catija Well the concern would be the bottle would never leave his desk otherwise ;p

rene

How do you drink from a bottle that never leaves a desk?

Mgetz

@rene I applaud your literalness

Catija

@rene Clearly you're unaware of straws.

rene

Not all beverages go well through a straw ...

Catija

19:01

Alcohol goes just fine.

πάντα ῥεῖ

That's a myth

rene

lol

πάντα ῥεῖ

You can guess now who was addressed :3

πάντα ῥεῖ

19:14

!!/sangria shadowwiz

SmokeDetector

@πάνταῥεῖ No such command 'sangria'.

Shadow Wizard

!!/tweet something

SmokeDetector

@ShadowWizard No such command 'tweet'.

Shadow Wizard

bleh

But it was a lie, I'm afraid. @πάνταῥεῖ

No real Sangria. :D

I'm too lazy to make the real one.

πάντα ῥεῖ

Didn't matter, I meant that tweet before of course.

Shadow Wizard

19:19

@πάνταῥεῖ oh lol

About sexism? I had a feeling it will draw you somehow. ;)

πάντα ῥεῖ

I am conscious enough to avoid such blunt references. :3

Shadow Wizard

:D

πάντα ῥεῖ

Also the twitter universe is a subtle thing. I am so happy to be a follower of my holiness the Dalai Lama since today. That is seriously honest, I'd never be sarcastic about my true beliefs.

Shadow Wizard

Whatever sails your boat! :D

πάντα ῥεῖ

Well, folks we're software engineers. Beyond we've managed to provide compilers in international language flavors, the next thing is the personalized compiler for any minority you can think about: twitter.com/aprilwensel/status/998644738646466560

I am smelling BIG MONEY here!

@ShadowWizard The important thing is, the boat sails:

'belief - love - hope' tryptichon acrylic on canvas 2002

Shog9

19:37

@Mgetz This is definitely true

FWIW, I wasn't trying to put you down, but rather give you the tools to make an effective argument.

Mgetz

@Shog9 I figured, text isn't always a good medium for that reason. It's so easy to be misunderstood.

Shog9

As illustrated by the existing FR, this has come up before; I'm aware of the concern, and it's something I've tried to keep an eye on. But... as a general rule, I don't like fear-driven feature design. I like to see evidence of problems, or similar problems, or even a well-described hypothetical; it makes it much easier to design effective mitigation strategies.

Catija

I will admit that I've found occasionally that (on the surface) it seems really easy to get gold badges for the required meta tags... That said, I don't know that very many people actually have them... and since undoing the dupe is as easy as doing it (if the dupe hammer wielder agrees)... it's not overly problematic.

Shog9

"this could somehow go horribly wrong" leads to locking down everyone's abilities.

It is, IMHO, why we ended up with "vote-to-close" instead of a more effective system: folks are more readily placated by a system that seems hard to abuse rather than one which is actually not abused.

Catija

I'm pretty sure there are more diamond users than gold badge dupe voters on MSE... though, probably less true on SO.

Shog9

19:42

only 25 gold badges on MSO

gold tag badges, that is

Mgetz

@Shog9 I concur on fear driven design being bad. I wouldn't want a knee-jerk reaction. Rather I'd want to have staff get data and see if there is an issue. If it affects MSO or just other meta sites etc.

Catija

I was thinking of actual SO. But on MSO, I'm guessing that a few of those are held by mods or staff, too.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Shog9 You badger you ;)

Shog9

@Catija 8/19 for [discussion], 2/5 for [support], 1/1 for [feature-request]

Catija

Yeah, so that's about half. :)

πάντα ῥεῖ

19:44

@Mgetz You imply there's an issue with abusive usage of the privilege in 1st place?

Mgetz

@πάνταῥεῖ I believe there is the potential for abuse, something very different. Also something that would require data on before acting

Shog9

@Mgetz data.stackexchange.com/meta.stackexchange/query/800978/…

πάντα ῥεῖ

Well, there's a portion at the be nice policy saying: "Assume good intend ...".

Mgetz

@Shog9 There is a joke here about community abusing it's powers ;p

πάντα ῥεῖ

That's not a joke, but an issue :3

Catija

19:50

How is it an issue? Community dupe closures happen when the OP agrees that the question is a dupe.

Shog9

not in this case

Catija

No?

Then what does it mean?

Shog9

means it's a lazy query

UserId is -1 when multiple users voted - so it was dup-hammered, but only after someone else voted to close it

πάντα ῥεῖ

That folds a pattern

Catija

So... if I dupe vote something and then someone hammers it, it gets attributed to Community rather than that someone?

Shog9

19:53

56

A: How can we downvote the use of the mighty Mjölnir?

You can't downvote the use of a close vote. That'd be some kind of meta-voting that doesn't really exist here. You can reopen improperly closed questions though. And you should! This is trivial to track (indeed, you can find evidence of such events in the public data dumps), and also serves to c...

More discussion ^

πάντα ῥεῖ

OP's inferring as Community themselves.

Shog9

Linked from that post, a query that lists stats for asker-confirmed dup closures as well

Catija

Or... what about in cases where the dupe hammer vote doesn't go to the same post as initially suggested?

Shog9

Apparently SQL Server has support for parsing JSON now... So I'll leave answering all of these questions as an exercise for the reader.

or @ShadowWizard, if he feels like seeing his true stats

Catija

:sigh:

πάντα ῥεῖ

19:56

Anyways I don't see how these details make the discusion or feature-request tags special regarding the mjölnir privilege.

Shog9

well, feature-request is special because on MSO only one person has a gold tag badge for it, and they're known to be reckless with their powers.

rene

for the SEDE JSON parse: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/368292/578411

Shog9

So who can say how many worthy features have been squelched due to careless badge-closing? Not me.

πάντα ῥεῖ

I am almost believing if there's any potential to abuse the site features, you'll find some psychopathic criminals out there who will use these in an abusive way (whatever this means).

Shog9

The next question you have to ask is what is the cost of that abuse?

πάντα ῥεῖ

20:00

And what is the win?

Shog9

One of the most powerful features on SO/SE is editing: you can put words in someone else's mouth!

And... It's available to everyone. You don't even need an account.

OTOH, the damage is easily mitigated.

Compare with tag merging, which is much more limited in what it can do... But has no easy undo. That's available only to mods.

Or tag burnination, which can't even do as much as merging... But like merging, rewrites history to make it as though the tag never existed, with no way to roll back from that. Only available to employees.

Any editor can do more damage, but the cost of repairing the damage is small by comparison.

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 I'm afraid to see my real stats.

;)

TL;DR of what's going on though?

Mgetz

@ShadowWizard Afraid you're the only one that actually closes dupes?

Shog9

We're discussing how best to punish you for your abuse of the dup-hammer on meta via the [discussion] tag badge hammer.

But we got sidetracked into a discussion as to whether the abuse is actually occurring, merely theoretical, or potentially even non-existent.

Shadow Wizard

@Mgetz nope, to be a "careless badge-closing"...

I mean... it can be.

Shog9

20:09

Needless to say, punishment for a non-existent crime should be swift and brutal. So it is important to establish the nature of the abuse.

Shadow Wizard

I imagine a sharp stick.

Mgetz

@Shog9 What they have to pay your bar tab?

πάντα ῥεῖ

@ShadowWizard Let's try a carrot first ;)

Shog9

that's slow and painful, best reserved for folks who ask me a lot of questions

Shadow Wizard

But seriously though, if you think I'm making mistakes, please let me know otherwise I can't really learn. I guess I can pay more attention when closing, or not close when not 100% sure it's really the same.

buh

@Shog9 I can think of one... who isn't me... :)

Mgetz

20:12

@ShadowWizard Dupes are always a bit subjective, if were going to instrument it I'd probably look at reopen stats of the person that hammered the questions. Just like you'd look at the percentage of that a district judge gets overturned on appeal

Shadow Wizard

@Mgetz good point

Mgetz

I think in this case it's really the only metric available, and honestly lacking data shog has a point that this is moot until then.

More than likely there is enough data for sites like SO but not for MSE

Shadow Wizard

@Mgetz not sure it's the only metric. There are other users who are more experienced than me, Shog is one of them, who can point on something I closed and say for sure it's wrong.

πάντα ῥεῖ

@Mgetz I have to admit using that privilege myself too early and short handed. But well, there's still a process, and other gold badge holders corrected my wrong decisions (complaining sometimes though) (at SO)

If that's really abusive behavior is debatable. There's no win for myself in the current game's setup.

Mgetz

@πάνταῥεῖ I think we've already spent more of SE's money and time on this issue than is really necessary tbh

πάντα ῥεῖ

20:29

I am not responsible regarding SE's business development. Just a decent community member I am.

Mgetz

@πάνταῥεῖ I guess that's better than being an indecent community member

πάντα ῥεῖ

Designing non social networks seems to be a bit harder than designing social networks.

Without total anonymity it's ever been a lie, that content counts over the user.
Sure it's the user contributing content, and they are measured about their skills to do that in a productive manner.
You can't really come up with skills as a newbie, unless you studied all about that a certain time staying in non disclosure.

Feeds

21:21

Changes to Our Privacy and Data Policies

Adam Francoeur on May 21, 2018

Stack Overflow has always been committed to protecting your privacy and your data. The European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation has prompted us to review our policies and make sure that we are doing the right thing for all of our users worldwide.

Stack Exchange, Inc. has updated its Terms of Service, Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy for all of our sites.

We have made it easier to understand what types of data we collect and how we use your data.

Our new Terms of Service distinguishes between public network users (those who use our public Stack Exchange Q&A sites) and private network users (those who use Stack Overflow for Teams). …

Catija

@Feeds Um... is that blog post complete @TimPost ?

I ask because of a couple of indications... the post ends on a list... after a single item... and the post still has comments enabled... which is generally not the case.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: Participle clauses with multiple subjects by Niko on ell.SE

user5389107

Looks unfinished

Adam Lear

yeahhhhh

user5389107

Like someone was drafting it and accidentally hit submit

Shadow Wizard

21:32

Happens to the best.

famous last words ^

Catija

That's the second draft that's gone live that I'm aware of in the last week or so...

Adam Lear

How many smart people does it take to operate WordPress without issues? :)

user5389107

It's wordpress so between 2 and infinite

I'm actually pretty close to a discussion gold tag badge on MSO :o

Catija

Maybe you need to get them to set it up so that it takes two people to confirm posting ;)

Shadow Wizard

@AdamLear 6-8

Catija

21:40

At least it's not in the sidebar... yet.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Are Simon the Pharisee (in Luke) and Simon the leper (in other Gospels) the same person? by marria on hermeneutics.SE

Undo

\o/ Dreams do come true!

Catija

:D

Travis J

21:56

Heh, came here to ask about badge progress... caching... thx for listening

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