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Catija
Catija
12:36 AM
I'm 25K now!!! Now I have nothing to look forward to until 100K now.
2
 
hey
hey
erm morning.
still too sleepy
 
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
@Catija Too bad they stopped giving out unicorn paintings to those with 200k+ rep
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
1:27 AM
@Catija alas
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog 0_0
there's supposed to be a 250K swag tier
 
Catija
Catija
Apparently there's also a 1 m swag tier.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Aka Jon Skeet?
 
Catija
Catija
yar.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Even at my best... that... could take a while
 
hey
hey
1:48 AM
@SmokeDetector naa-
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
1:58 AM
@Catija pretty sure that's "go to HQ and be on a podcast and other cool things"
 
Catija
Catija
Sounds good to me :D
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@ArtOfCode I'd find that mildly terrifying XD
 
Anonymous
2:39 AM
 
Anonymous
6:14 AM
"we are here to create an artifact that will help the next person who has that question" is a fundamental flaw of the description of the site, that should be a side effect, not the goal. — Nick Larsen ♦ Apr 28 at 20:52
 
Anonymous
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
 
Anonymous
can somebody else please spare a delete vote and purge this heresy?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
heh
But leaving it there lets the world see what people think of it?
 
hey
hey
I'm afraid deleting that will count as "censoring"...
 
Suraj Rao
Suraj Rao
heresy is downvoted not deleted... odd that an employee does not know the site goals..
 
hey
hey
6:26 AM
I only regret that the answer forgot a disclaimer "This is personal view, not SE's view", but the OP doesn't seem to get that hint even after the comment storms...
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
heh
Not everyone is aware of 'hats'
also erm
 
TheLittleNaruto
TheLittleNaruto
6:45 AM
Yo @Journey o/
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
hi
 
TheLittleNaruto
TheLittleNaruto
Can we add 404 page link in "parent user" section of chat profile page ?
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Catija That's exactly how 30, 40, 50, and 60 felt.
I am guessing 70, 80, and 90 will be similar
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
7:02 AM
@TravisJ heh
I actually stopped caring about rep until I got close to 100k on SU
and I focus on interesting problems over trying to get on the rep train anyway
 
Travis J
Travis J
For a decent amount of time (years) I would try to just do 1k a month-ish, so that my x years y months translated to xyk rep. 6 years, 6 months, would be 66k rep. I kind of dropped off though, only at 60k.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I used to do one answer a day
 
Travis J
Travis J
I would do like 20 in a week and then just go afk for the rest of the month :P
(lurk)
Can't really answer everything anymore though.
I mean, you could, but then you have to spend 10 times as much time arguing about who should answer what, what should go where, why the freaking cookie jar has peanuts in it and the peanut butter got made with almonds, etc. etc.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
well the one answer a day had some advantages - the time spent per question could be maximised (not that all my high scoring answers were... well thought of), and It worked ?
hah
@TravisJ that's totally meta though
and SE in some respects
 
Travis J
Travis J
I think that too much meta has spilled into the main sites.
 
Martin James
Martin James
7:13 AM
@JourneymanGeek Our govt. here in the UK promotes 'Five a day'
 
Travis J
Travis J
It's because I mentioned cookies, isn't it.
 
hey
hey
7:43 AM
The more you answer, the less you answer because you realized you have answered that and VtC as dupe instead...
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@hey oh
erm. I'm not a fan of closing as dupe on meta.
At least not as fast as some folk
I see meta is being a bit of a helpdesk type thing too, and if we're closing stuff too fast, it seems slightly user hostile
 
Travis J
Travis J
@hey Is that why you haven't answered for 2 and a half years? :P
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I'll take the rep hit if stuff gets nuked later, but I'd rather stuff gets answered unless its a complete dupe
 
hey
hey
Meanwhile, I have a userscript request to check if the question I'm currently reading is currently on HNQ. Can use the unofficial HNQ API. Not sure if I should request it on MSE or StackApp...
or probably I should learn how userscript works and how JavaScript works...
 
Travis J
Travis J
Maybe privileges should be tied to some sort of sliding window of reputation to make sure that users remain up to date on what the current environment of the sites are.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
7:51 AM
hah
shakes a fist at JohnT
 
Travis J
Travis J
lol
(I got that reference)
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
0_0
Really?
You'd need to know he was 1 position above me on the SU rep standings ;p
 
Travis J
Travis J
The guy that always finds odd bugs and posts them on meta? Wrong John?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
wrong John
 
Travis J
Travis J
(I missed that reference)
 
hey
hey
7:52 AM
@JourneymanGeek well, at one time, I took a crusade to read all SE Android app open bug reports and feature-requests ... and some were dupes though...
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Early user who went up to 100K on SU and vanished
 
Travis J
Travis J
hm
Well the remark still stands :D
 
hey
hey
(and then the development's halted ._.)
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
ah ya
tbh, in my opinion that's kind of one of the weak points of SE as an organisation :(
There's a lot of projects that got started, then... folk seemingly lost interest
 
Travis J
Travis J
I think the people with the most talent got all tied into ensuring the site scaled well.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
7:56 AM
Well...
 
hey
hey
was that Jeff?
 
Travis J
Travis J
Since the site is constantly scaling, the talent drain into that sector is immense.
What do I know though, that is pure conjecture. Could be way off.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
It might be entirely unfair but I think the focus went from "being focused on building the core product" to "being focused on side products"
some of which made money (careers) but slightly hurt the core product in terms of attention
The big advantage they had in the early years is they were laser focused on the QA platform
This is mostly conjecture of course
 
hey
hey
and me still poking for fun at SOTV...
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@hey which comes into "Its done, what next?"
and side projects
I don't even remember SOTV
 
hey
hey
8:03 AM
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@hey or realising that most devs, and even random computery types who don't code are text based entities.
 
Derpy
Derpy
@hey Shimmer?
 
rene
rene
8:25 AM
→ 6 messages moved to Chimney
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
8:55 AM
meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310422/… the temptation to answer yes, then fill it with a ton of non breaking spaces is tempting.
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
Setting up a bad example that would be. The doings of their masters people watch and obey.
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
sd tpu-
 
gnat
gnat
9:10 AM
20
A: Are we abusing our delete votes on Meta?

Shog9I took a look at the posts with pending delete votes here (~19 answers) and those that've been deleted by vote at some point (20 answers). For the most part, we're not actually deleting anything of value. And of course, 10K users can verify this by checking the list of recently-deleted posts no...

 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
9:31 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Were the Bavarian Illuminati actually Luciferians? by Dr Oboite on philosophy.SE
 
hey
hey
@SmokeDetector Illuminati recruitment in the public. If it's so easy to join like that...
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
sd tpu-
 
Derpy
Derpy
@hey illuminati recruitment would be far less noticeable than that..
Disguising your infrastructure as a group of fans of a kids-show... now that would be brilliant.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
I flagged that as spam anyways.
 
Derpy
Derpy
9:45 AM
you could probably even post you secret messages in plain sight on a public forum and chat site disguised as obscure references to a show and no one would notice.
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
9:56 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Are there programs to create and edit SVG animations? by user201117 on superuser.com
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
sd tp-
 
Derpy
Derpy
10:13 AM
it is just me or the room has gotten a lot more... silent? since the whole "be nice - third time is a charm" thing?
 
hey
hey
without the kitty and SE news ticker? probably.
but it's a slow Monday for me anyway...
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
What happened to @bro BTW?
 
hey
hey
just casually deleted his MSE account as usual
(real reason unknown)
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
10:19 AM
Hmm, I miss TK, and yve's leaving the room as soon I appear. :-/
 
hey
hey
Turned out Tavern is bleak without cats...
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
And chickens ...
 
Derpy
Derpy
I see a dark wind blowing thru...
I see days neither fun or free...
I see a future caused by you...
I see a path not meant to be....
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Meme overflow ...
I’m Tibetan, I’m Buddhist and I’m the Dalai Lama, but if I emphasize these differences it sets me apart and raises barriers with other people. What we need to do is to pay more attention to the ways in which we are the same as other people.
Tweeted by DalaiLama on May 21, 2018 at 9:35 AM
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
10:37 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Linked punctuation in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Computer will not turn on unless I hold the power button down by emulen on superuser.com
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
sd why
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[:6966222] Body - Position 215-228: cputemper.com
Body - Position 230-261: rel="nofollow noreferrer">.</a>
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@SmokeDetector tpu-
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
10:52 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in answer: How do I play m3u8 files? by angiepuller on askubuntu.com
 
Suraj Rao
Suraj Rao
11:11 AM
@πάνταῥεῖ got closed in area51 area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/109898/…
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
LOL, something as expected of course
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
 
Derpy
Derpy
it's already Caturday?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Derpy it's always Caturday
 
Derpy
Derpy
11:28 AM
waiting for updates...
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Derpy do they make the keyboard more comfy?
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@Derpy I am afraid we're back to this point
 
Derpy
Derpy
if you prefer, I can always replace the cats with candy pastel color ponies
 
Martin James
Martin James
12:06 PM
@Derpy The Russian Blue Screen Of Death?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
12:28 PM
@MartinJames groan
 
Anonymous
1:01 PM
@gnat yes, do that.
 
hey
hey
2:07 PM
This is too silent...
 
Derpy
Derpy
zzzZZzzzzZZZZzzzzZZZZZZ
 
Suraj Rao
Suraj Rao
The tavern is deserted.. no drinks
 
hey
hey

 The SO Tavern (Free Snacks)

Room 5 was frozen for inactivity even though it was once an ac...
The future of this room...
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
Am I the only one that things that discussion should be banned from gold badges?
The reason being it gives users with said badges waaaaay too much power
 
Shog9
Shog9
howso?
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
2:17 PM
Because of the frequency of the tag they probably mean.
 
Shog9
Shog9
18
Q: Should gold tag badges in required tags on meta provide insta-close-dupe functionality?

Adam DavisI am, apparently, one of 12 people with the gold tag badge for feature-request and one of 39 people with the gold tag badge for discussion here on meta.se. I hadn't realized this until I cast a close as duplicate vote, then was shocked (and awed) by the power unleashed. Unicorns came from everyw...

feature-request vote-to-close meta required-tags dupehammer
But I'm more curious about the "waaaay too much power" assertion
you get ... the normal amount of power for a gold badge
dup closing and reopening
once per question
 
rene
rene
@Mgetz I like my power. Specially if I can abuse it ...
 
Derpy
Derpy
May 10 at 12:53, by Derpy
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Dupehammer in discussion . Don't tell me that wouldn't make sense to you?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 Exactly that
I don't think required tags should allow dupe hammer or any other mod functionality
 
Shog9
Shog9
why?
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
2:21 PM
why?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 Because there is no such thing as expertise in discussion
 
Shog9
Shog9
oh?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
so having the power to say something is an instant dupe is a bit overboard
ancillary tags... potentially but not the required tags for anyone not staff
 
Derpy
Derpy
and make it two since I to assumed the badge power was meant to reward expertise in a field.
 
Shog9
Shog9
I feel like you're just jealous of my gold discussion badge
 
Derpy
Derpy
2:23 PM
Expertise in discussion...
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
and even then I'd probably limit that power to feature-request
 
Discrete lizard
Discrete lizard
@Mgetz Why not? Mediation is a skill.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 You feel incorrectly Padawan, I could care less about your badge
 
Derpy
Derpy
Really, Shog? Like you wouldn't be able to do the same without the badge -_-'
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
I'm more concerned about people shooting first and looking later based on titles
 
Shog9
Shog9
2:24 PM
@Mgetz but you're specifically concerned about people with gold discussion badges doing that.
 
hey
hey
I'm more concerned about people who request gold-badger to dupehammer something...
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 Given that I don't know off the top of my head the other required tags, we'll go with yes for now. I think it would have to be a tag by tag thing anyway. If someone is really familiar with feature-request they should be able to dupe.
 
Shog9
Shog9
@Derpy Well, if you wanna go that route... I'm not limited by the restrictions of gold badge closing. I can close any question for any reason with a single vote, repeatedly if I wish to. That's a lot more power to abuse than what gold badge holders get.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 We should give you special unicorn pony closing powers next April 1st
 
Shog9
Shog9
@Mgetz so what makes [discussion] special?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
2:27 PM
@Shog9 Mostly the fact that it's so generic as to be on the vast majority of questions.
 
Shog9
Shog9
and don't give me the "no experts in this tag" thing again, everyone says that about every tag they're not particularly active in - have you seen the burninate requests on meta SO?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 Nope but I'm not calling for it to be burninated
 
Shog9
Shog9
if you're gonna argue that [discussion] is so generic as to be meaningless, then you're arguing for getting rid of the tag - which is a big deal, so don't half-ass it.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 I didn't say it was meaningless?
 
Shog9
Shog9
if you're not arguing for that, then be specific about the problem you're seeing
because up to now, your only argument has been...
7 mins ago, by Mgetz
@Shog9 Because there is no such thing as expertise in discussion
 
Derpy
Derpy
2:29 PM
counter question, please explain why a gold badge owner gets the closure power
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 I'm just going to shut up, it's clear at this point I've already lost
 
Shog9
Shog9
...which, again, I've seen folks make this same argument for countless technologies on SO proper, and it always just means they can't be bothered to learn anything about the topic and are annoyed that other people might be experts in it.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
Something that I didn't even care to win
 
Shog9
Shog9
If you've seen abuse, then you should be able to talk about it.
 
rene
rene
You can't be in an expert in discussion. Demonstrated daily on your local meta ...
 
Shog9
Shog9
2:30 PM
If you're just tossing out the specter of abuse because you saw a tag and - with no research - decided that no one could possibly be more knowledgeable than yourself... Then go do that research.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 I never said I saw abuse
 
Shog9
Shog9
@Mgetz you said and I quote, "it gives users with said badges waaaaay too much power"
 
hey
hey
@Derpy that's why tag score is not a good indicator for expertise. Answering 1000 basic questions and getting 1 upvote each will get a gold badge too.
 
rene
rene
@hey still up to the hammer if they honor the request....
 
Shog9
Shog9
now, if they weren't abusing that power, surely it wouldn't be "waaaaay too much" power?
it'd be... "a sufficient amount of power for the work that they do"
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
2:31 PM
@Shog9 I still believe that to be true, as it allows them to shoot first and ask questions later based on title.
Moreover it prevents review of that close vote
 
Shog9
Shog9
or perhaps even, "more power than non-badge holders get, but still less than what they would need to cause trouble"
so the implication of your statement is that there is abuse
 
rene
rene
@Mgetz re-open vote in that case
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
Regardless I'm done with this conversation
 
Shog9
Shog9
why would you bring this up if you hadn't observed abuse?
 
hey
hey
@rene the hammer will ham the doer
 
rene
rene
2:33 PM
if you say so ..
 
Shog9
Shog9
is there even a hypothetical scenario in which the badge would allow untoward behavior in a way that doesn't apply to every other tag?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 I have on multiple other sites, even others in this room have mentioned times they've had to badger gold badge holder to undupe things
 
rene
rene
I'm not allowed to make mistakes?
 
Shog9
Shog9
certain people in this room badger gold badge holders to do everything... That's not necessarily a commentary on the badge holders so much as it is on the badgers.
 
hey
hey
@rene Say that to the mods too :)
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
2:34 PM
@rene clearly I already have, I said something
 
rene
rene
yes, but we like the discussion
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@rene This wasn't a discussion it was interrogation
 
rene
rene
If you have 1500 rep you can add that tag to your question.
Expect Shog9 to be the first gold badge holder for that tag ...
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@rene I don't on meta anymore due to the split, and It'll get immediately burninateed
 
rene
rene
Yep, happy to help
 
canon
canon
3:14 PM
SE identity crisis, or what?
incredibly entertaining, at any rate /popcorn
 
rene
rene
With salt?
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
And loads of butter
 
canon
canon
mhmm
@Shog9 gold badge badgers... hmmm
 
Catija
Catija
Do they get a special day like Groundhogs?
 
rene
rene
It will probably be a public shaming, if anything. Don't have high expectations
 
Feeds
Feeds
3:31 PM
 
 
2 hours later…
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
5:14 PM
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Reason?
 
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
Maybe you should check the question and proposed duplicate
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
5:32 PM
I am not always trusting @gnat's ubiquitous dupe proposals.
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: What would be a suitable aircraft for a short haul freight forwarding business? by Greg on aviation.SE
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
sd tpu-
 
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
Sonic the Inclusive Hedgehog
@πάνταῥεῖ Well, me and three other users did
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
What's the reason you need to amplify so much? This isn't the MSECVR.
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
5:59 PM
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
sd naa
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
@πάνταῥεῖ [:6967988] Recorded answer as an NAA in metasmoke.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@SmokeDetector tpu-
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
6:39 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, blacklisted website in answer: How to download all YouTube playlists as .csv by Fred Green on webapps.SE
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@rene Honestly this whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. I understand what shog was asking but it came across as inquisitorial and not thought provoking.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@SmokeDetector tpu-
 
rene
rene
@Mgetz sure. Keep in mind the floating head is doing this debating stuff for a living so he tends to be pretty good at it. This does mean that if you bring something to the table you need your back covered with facts. Just give it retry if you have some evidence. I hammered plenty of stuff both on MSE and MSO so my profile is a good start to collect "abuse" cases.
Or at least conflict of interest
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@rene I'd consider what I said to shog to be feedback: focus on getting the other person to think about it instead of debating it.
 
rene
rene
I don't expect shog9 needs us to give him something to think about ;)
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
6:54 PM
indubitably
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@πάνταῥεῖ hence why I said feedback instead of seeing it as anything else... honestly I feel like I hit him with it before he had his coffee
 
rene
rene
totally possible. Maybe try again on Friday, during Happy Hour ..
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@rene They allow shog to drink... oh my
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
You should be a bit more emphatic with people before they had their 1st coffee in the morning. Believe me, I am an expert on drugs.
 
Catija
Catija
6:58 PM
@Mgetz You say "allow" like he needs permission.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Catija Well the concern would be the bottle would never leave his desk otherwise ;p
 
rene
rene
How do you drink from a bottle that never leaves a desk?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@rene I applaud your literalness
 
Catija
Catija
@rene Clearly you're unaware of straws.
 
rene
rene
Not all beverages go well through a straw ...
 
Catija
Catija
7:01 PM
Alcohol goes just fine.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
That's a myth
 
rene
rene
lol
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
You can guess now who was addressed :3
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
7:14 PM
!!/sangria shadowwiz
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
@πάνταῥεῖ No such command 'sangria'.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
!!/tweet something
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
@ShadowWizard No such command 'tweet'.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
bleh
But it was a lie, I'm afraid. @πάνταῥεῖ
No real Sangria. :D
I'm too lazy to make the real one.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Didn't matter, I meant that tweet before of course.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
7:19 PM
@πάνταῥεῖ oh lol
About sexism? I had a feeling it will draw you somehow. ;)
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
I am conscious enough to avoid such blunt references. :3
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
:D
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Also the twitter universe is a subtle thing. I am so happy to be a follower of my holiness the Dalai Lama since today. That is seriously honest, I'd never be sarcastic about my true beliefs.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
Whatever sails your boat! :D
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Well, folks we're software engineers. Beyond we've managed to provide compilers in international language flavors, the next thing is the personalized compiler for any minority you can think about: twitter.com/aprilwensel/status/998644738646466560
I am smelling BIG MONEY here!
@ShadowWizard The important thing is, the boat sails:
'belief - love - hope' tryptichon acrylic on canvas 2002
 
Shog9
Shog9
7:37 PM
@Mgetz This is definitely true
FWIW, I wasn't trying to put you down, but rather give you the tools to make an effective argument.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 I figured, text isn't always a good medium for that reason. It's so easy to be misunderstood.
 
Shog9
Shog9
As illustrated by the existing FR, this has come up before; I'm aware of the concern, and it's something I've tried to keep an eye on. But... as a general rule, I don't like fear-driven feature design. I like to see evidence of problems, or similar problems, or even a well-described hypothetical; it makes it much easier to design effective mitigation strategies.
 
Catija
Catija
I will admit that I've found occasionally that (on the surface) it seems really easy to get gold badges for the required meta tags... That said, I don't know that very many people actually have them... and since undoing the dupe is as easy as doing it (if the dupe hammer wielder agrees)... it's not overly problematic.
 
Shog9
Shog9
"this could somehow go horribly wrong" leads to locking down everyone's abilities.
It is, IMHO, why we ended up with "vote-to-close" instead of a more effective system: folks are more readily placated by a system that seems hard to abuse rather than one which is actually not abused.
 
Catija
Catija
I'm pretty sure there are more diamond users than gold badge dupe voters on MSE... though, probably less true on SO.
 
Shog9
Shog9
7:42 PM
only 25 gold badges on MSO
gold tag badges, that is
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 I concur on fear driven design being bad. I wouldn't want a knee-jerk reaction. Rather I'd want to have staff get data and see if there is an issue. If it affects MSO or just other meta sites etc.
 
Catija
Catija
I was thinking of actual SO. But on MSO, I'm guessing that a few of those are held by mods or staff, too.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@Shog9 You badger you ;)
 
Shog9
Shog9
@Catija 8/19 for [discussion], 2/5 for [support], 1/1 for [feature-request]
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah, so that's about half. :)
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
7:44 PM
@Mgetz You imply there's an issue with abusive usage of the privilege in 1st place?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@πάνταῥεῖ I believe there is the potential for abuse, something very different. Also something that would require data on before acting
 
Shog9
Shog9
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Well, there's a portion at the be nice policy saying: "Assume good intend ...".
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 There is a joke here about community abusing it's powers ;p
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
That's not a joke, but an issue :3
 
Catija
Catija
7:50 PM
How is it an issue? Community dupe closures happen when the OP agrees that the question is a dupe.
 
Shog9
Shog9
not in this case
 
Catija
Catija
No?
Then what does it mean?
 
Shog9
Shog9
means it's a lazy query
UserId is -1 when multiple users voted - so it was dup-hammered, but only after someone else voted to close it
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
That folds a pattern
 
Catija
Catija
So... if I dupe vote something and then someone hammers it, it gets attributed to Community rather than that someone?
 
Shog9
Shog9
7:53 PM
56
A: How can we downvote the use of the mighty Mjölnir?

Shog9You can't downvote the use of a close vote. That'd be some kind of meta-voting that doesn't really exist here. You can reopen improperly closed questions though. And you should! This is trivial to track (indeed, you can find evidence of such events in the public data dumps), and also serves to c...

More discussion ^
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
OP's inferring as Community themselves.
 
Shog9
Shog9
 
Catija
Catija
Or... what about in cases where the dupe hammer vote doesn't go to the same post as initially suggested?
 
Shog9
Shog9
Apparently SQL Server has support for parsing JSON now... So I'll leave answering all of these questions as an exercise for the reader.
or @ShadowWizard, if he feels like seeing his true stats
 
Catija
Catija
:sigh:
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
7:56 PM
Anyways I don't see how these details make the discusion or feature-request tags special regarding the mjölnir privilege.
 
Shog9
Shog9
well, feature-request is special because on MSO only one person has a gold tag badge for it, and they're known to be reckless with their powers.
 
rene
rene
for the SEDE JSON parse: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/368292/578411
 
Shog9
Shog9
So who can say how many worthy features have been squelched due to careless badge-closing? Not me.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
I am almost believing if there's any potential to abuse the site features, you'll find some psychopathic criminals out there who will use these in an abusive way (whatever this means).
 
Shog9
Shog9
The next question you have to ask is what is the cost of that abuse?
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
8:00 PM
And what is the win?
 
Shog9
Shog9
One of the most powerful features on SO/SE is editing: you can put words in someone else's mouth!
And... It's available to everyone. You don't even need an account.
OTOH, the damage is easily mitigated.
Compare with tag merging, which is much more limited in what it can do... But has no easy undo. That's available only to mods.
Or tag burnination, which can't even do as much as merging... But like merging, rewrites history to make it as though the tag never existed, with no way to roll back from that. Only available to employees.
Any editor can do more damage, but the cost of repairing the damage is small by comparison.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Shog9 I'm afraid to see my real stats.
;)
TL;DR of what's going on though?
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@ShadowWizard Afraid you're the only one that actually closes dupes?
 
Shog9
Shog9
We're discussing how best to punish you for your abuse of the dup-hammer on meta via the [discussion] tag badge hammer.
But we got sidetracked into a discussion as to whether the abuse is actually occurring, merely theoretical, or potentially even non-existent.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Mgetz nope, to be a "careless badge-closing"...
I mean... it can be.
 
Shog9
Shog9
8:09 PM
Needless to say, punishment for a non-existent crime should be swift and brutal. So it is important to establish the nature of the abuse.
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
I imagine a sharp stick.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@Shog9 What they have to pay your bar tab?
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@ShadowWizard Let's try a carrot first ;)
 
Shog9
Shog9
that's slow and painful, best reserved for folks who ask me a lot of questions
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
But seriously though, if you think I'm making mistakes, please let me know otherwise I can't really learn. I guess I can pay more attention when closing, or not close when not 100% sure it's really the same.
buh
@Shog9 I can think of one... who isn't me... :)
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
8:12 PM
@ShadowWizard Dupes are always a bit subjective, if were going to instrument it I'd probably look at reopen stats of the person that hammered the questions. Just like you'd look at the percentage of that a district judge gets overturned on appeal
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Mgetz good point
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
I think in this case it's really the only metric available, and honestly lacking data shog has a point that this is moot until then.
More than likely there is enough data for sites like SO but not for MSE
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@Mgetz not sure it's the only metric. There are other users who are more experienced than me, Shog is one of them, who can point on something I closed and say for sure it's wrong.
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
@Mgetz I have to admit using that privilege myself too early and short handed. But well, there's still a process, and other gold badge holders corrected my wrong decisions (complaining sometimes though) (at SO)
If that's really abusive behavior is debatable. There's no win for myself in the current game's setup.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@πάνταῥεῖ I think we've already spent more of SE's money and time on this issue than is really necessary tbh
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
8:29 PM
I am not responsible regarding SE's business development. Just a decent community member I am.
 
Mgetz
Mgetz
@πάνταῥεῖ I guess that's better than being an indecent community member
 
πάντα ῥεῖ
πάντα ῥεῖ
Designing non social networks seems to be a bit harder than designing social networks.
Without total anonymity it's ever been a lie, that content counts over the user.
Sure it's the user contributing content, and they are measured about their skills to do that in a productive manner.
You can't really come up with skills as a newbie, unless you studied all about that a certain time staying in non disclosure.
 
Feeds
Feeds
9:21 PM
Changes to Our Privacy and Data Policies
Adam Francoeur on May 21, 2018

Stack Overflow has always been committed to protecting your privacy and your data. The European Union’s General Data Protection Regulation has prompted us to review our policies and make sure that we are doing the right thing for all of our users worldwide.

Stack Exchange, Inc. has updated its Terms of Service, Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy for all of our sites.

We have made it easier to understand what types of data we collect and how we use your data.

Our new Terms of Service distinguishes between public network users (those who use our public Stack Exchange Q&A sites) and private network users (those who use Stack Overflow for Teams). …

 
Catija
Catija
@Feeds Um... is that blog post complete @TimPost ?
I ask because of a couple of indications... the post ends on a list... after a single item... and the post still has comments enabled... which is generally not the case.
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: Participle clauses with multiple subjects by Niko on ell.SE
 
user5389107
user5389107
Looks unfinished
 
Adam Lear
Adam Lear
yeahhhhh
 
user5389107
user5389107
Like someone was drafting it and accidentally hit submit
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
9:32 PM
Happens to the best.
famous last words ^
 
Catija
Catija
That's the second draft that's gone live that I'm aware of in the last week or so...
 
Adam Lear
Adam Lear
How many smart people does it take to operate WordPress without issues? :)
 
user5389107
user5389107
It's wordpress so between 2 and infinite
I'm actually pretty close to a discussion gold tag badge on MSO :o
 
Catija
Catija
Maybe you need to get them to set it up so that it takes two people to confirm posting ;)
 
Shadow Wizard
Shadow Wizard
@AdamLear 6-8
 
Catija
Catija
9:40 PM
At least it's not in the sidebar... yet.
 
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Are Simon the Pharisee (in Luke) and Simon the leper (in other Gospels) the same person? by marria on hermeneutics.SE
 
Undo
Undo
\o/ Dreams do come true!
 
Catija
Catija
:D
 
Travis J
Travis J
9:56 PM
Heh, came here to ask about badge progress... caching... thx for listening
 
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