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1:00 PM
It sounds ludicrous but often times how you say it is just as important as what you're saying
I just realized I've never even written a cover letter
have to do some research
1:18 PM
Q: When moving comments to chat, retain comment upvotes as chat upvotes (not stars)

user1306322I'm proposing to modify chat to include special chat rooms where there are no stars, but upvotes instead. I've read the previous propositions similar to this one where upvotes get converted to stars and every time the rebuttal is "but upvotes aren't start and there are no upvotes in chat". So add...

I explained how this is not a duplicate in the question itself
chat. upvotes?
everyone's like "but stars are not upvotes"
chat has upvotes?
ok then make them upvotes if it matters so much
chat can have whatever we make it have
ah other than that I suspect its a really low priority to add features to chat ;p
1:20 PM
@user1306322 But isn't voting the root of all SE evil?
that's a separate discussion which I don't mean to touch
all I want is to retain the comment upvotes so I can pop into these moved chat rooms and see with what comments/messages people agreed with before the move
and I want to read some official opinion on this matter
@Mgetz so evil is voting^2?
something something road to evil paved with upvotes
@user5389107 I can neither confirm nor deny the evilness of voting
I just confused @user1306322 and @user5389107
@user5389107 dude, could you at least change your ava? ;p
1:24 PM
sorry but that's part of the deal with my username on metas
I don't want to stand out
those who need can figure out my other identities but I don't want to make a mess with different appearance in chat and the site
@user1306322 the official opinion is a bit of a hard sell
@JourneymanGeek got links? :p
@user1306322 oh in general
Is that you specific horse lady?
so far I only got the user base opinion
and that's not what I'm interested in actually
no matter what the public might want to think
1:26 PM
@user5389107 dosen't sound like her
I don't know I get confused myself
click my network profile, see what I do
My idea in changing it was making me less distinctive
Remove some attachment and personality
ah not horse lady
I saw you on SU ;p
it's just wild to me that I have to call out the gold badge wearer for closing the question without paying attention like that
too often I find myself in situations like this
but it's because I try to find a new angle to solve an old problem and by then nobody cares enough to inspect the distinction
1:50 PM
@user1306322 FWIW, the question is already reopened, so you might delete your comment
And now I'm curious how often/what percentage those "comments moved to chat" rooms were frozen and deleted for inactivity...
And since comment is vulnerable to 3 flags removal, those "moved to chat" links were flagged and removed (I hope it has never happened...)
2:27 PM
@user5389107 s/often times/every time/
@user1306322 it doesn't surprise me at all I've seen it quite a lot on SO.
@hey that shouldn't happen at all imo
2:45 PM
All chat rooms follow retention rule though, so at worst it will be frozen if there are more than 15 messages from more than 1 user. Otherwise, deleted if less than 15 messages.
(I believe it, because Shog says so)
3:24 PM
sd why
looks like a false positive but the question is questionable as is
3:58 PM
sd why
I can't see the deleted post or user... but looks like a true positive
You can check the "MS" link, but I wouldn't recommend it.
If you use userscripts, you can install FIRE and it will show you a popup of the post even if it's already deleted.
That'd also save having that sort of foul language visible in here :)
1 message moved to Chimney
@Mithrandir I've had similar said to my face
@Catija I didn't think that was available to users without the 10k rep
FIRE is tied to Meta Smoke, so the content is served up by the Charcoal website, not SE. Deleted content is viewable there.
FIRE works off of metasmoke data, and metasmoke data is available to everyone.
4:03 PM
@Catija ah
@Catija (official capitalization is "metasmoke", BTW - see the official stuffz)
Then why is the MS link capitalized??? :P
@Mithrandir is there a ™ too?
I was teasing, at a past job they got very particular that a product name always have the trademark on it
4:14 PM
9 messages moved to Chimney
No more fun name like "Stack Exchange™ MultiCollider SuperDropdown™" recently..?
We fucking hate fun.
@hey ®
@user1114 language
The "Contact Us" form doesn't send an email confirmation. That's bad.
You mean for the arbitration opt out?
4:23 PM
oops, almost forgot. let's do that too.
but chat profile deletion request in this case.
For MSE?
I am wondering if the software will properly anonymize the transcripts.
MSE/SE, keeping SO since I actually use that constructively.
I doubt it. It doesn't update changed usernames.
4:24 PM
The software tends to bake old user names into the transcripts, but that doesn't satisfy anonymization.
Do you need to be an EU resident to invoke GDPR, or is citizenship enough? I wonder....
@user1114 depends on who you ask, generally speaking it seems that either works
Swell. Then I trust this will work out, since Brexit hasn't taken that from me yet.
@user1114 Mind your wording in chat please.
Meh. The rule on profanity is post-Jeff.
okay, opted out.
Evan had spread the Good Word of Opting across Reddit.
Lot of things happened "post Jeff"
1 hour later…
@user1114 nope:
Q: Are expletives (cursing, swear words or vulgar language) allowed on SE sites?

Jeff AtwoodCan I use salty, expletive-laden language on Stack Exchange sites, like Q*Bert? For more information, see "What kind of behavior is expected of users?" in the Help Center. Return to FAQ index

Idk about the arbitration thing
Considering how notoriously litigious american society is I can totally see why they feel the need for that
Also we have an electronic opt out now so it no longer affects me (There is nothing SE could do to me that would make me join a class action lawsuit that I can imagine right now)
@Shog9 Jeff's answer wasn't the top of that thread until y'all deleted the actual community-selected answer, which he never did.
I had forgotten that he made the vote-losing post, though.
5:58 PM
@user1114 the top answer was "minimize them". Which is a good policy, except everyone who gets dinged for cussing at others used it to argue that they only did so out of necessity. In practice, that's always how the rule has been applied, but...
ah, true, it was.
needed to keep scrolling.
I don't think they're warning everyone using a curse word but if it becomes part of your regular language it's kinda not appropriate for a professional Q/A site
And if you're gonna be pedantic, "fuck" isn't profanity.
This sounds like the answer to many Meta questions which almost always ends in "and this is why we can't have nice things"
5:59 PM
"Fuck" is hardly even vulgar.
@Shog9 See the applicable morals and standards discussion from yesterday morning (US time)
Lots of immigrants use it as a casual expression because that's what they've learned through media.
Which is accurate in terms of the actual weight it carries now.
@user1114 I spent a lot of time unlearning using it in regular language
Because when I learned english it was from curse affine c++ developers
You'll also note that when animuson deleted the top answer he edited the caveats into Jeff's answer.
This is traditional for meta FAQs
6:02 PM
I thought "frak" was a good inoffensive substitute until I grew up and rewatched BSG and decided maybe it wasn't something I wanted to rep so much.
@user1114 HEAVILY dependant on locale and context. Remember, a lot of folks use these sites at work and don't get to make the rules based on their personal comfort level.
It keeps that good mouth feel of the word, which most alternatives do not.
Honestly at some point avoiding it becomes natural
as a side effect of spending so much time on SE my friends think I'm a snob now
Fudge has good mouthfeel.
I've surprised a few people with my off-SE chatter... I... cuss a lot.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in link text in answer, link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: server cannot ping unless wireshark is capturing packet by brolly on superuser.com
6:04 PM
@Catija You do?
"Merde" has the mouthfeel of merde.
Like a sailor.
Doesn't sound like something you'd do from how you present here
Though, not many can attest to it... ;)
So did Jeff, an irony not lost in that nearly nine year old discussion...
6:05 PM
I don't think I've ever heard you cuss or be outwardly raging
That's because I know how to edit before I hit "enter" or "submit". :P
There are so many times I've had to change what I say to adjust it and make it cleaner or nicer or... less ambiguously... snarky/snide.
The thing to remember here is that most of what we do on SO isn't exactly natural. The rules tend to reflect a goal of being a bit better than our normal selves, not being... Comfortable.
Answering on SE is inherently uncomfortable
It's the feeling you get when you put up your work to be scrutinized by a lot of people really good at what you're writing about
You get that little flush of anxiety every time you hit submit because you might be wrong and if you are, someone will usually notice
I used to be on a chat/message board ... thing... not really a server or... I don't really know how to describe it... but we spent a lot of time encouraging people to just use real words, not chat speak or text speak or leet...
I find that to be the most valueable learning experience. You don't get that from school. School is a game of "good enough". SE is a game of "as good as it can be"
6:09 PM
Thankfully, not something that I often have to deal with here.
@user5389107 And when you get :gasp: downvoted, you're agonizing over the "did I really say something wrong or did Tim just lose his keys again???"
@user5389107 It's funny... I have run into many users who have had their posts critiqued and, rather than fixing it when the suggestions are made to improve, they respond by saying "I'll do it right the next time"... and I don't understand that... why the next time? Why not fix this right here and now. We've told you exactly how to do that. Help us help you! Make your answers better by making your question more descriptive... improve your answer so that it's more useful to everyone...
yeah but editing means it gets bumped and more people look at it!
... Well... if you fixed it... that's good... right? ;)
@Catija It has helped me immensely in formulating stuff and articulating myself
it's also a very emotionally safe way to get used to harsh criticism
(at least for me)
@user5389107 To clarify, do you mean actually editing based on suggestions or refusing to edit?
@Catija Many users don't get editing.
6:19 PM
It's been really life changing for me personally, it's made me learn faster, become a better developer and develop some confidence and ability to articulate myself. I owe a lot of the "professional" writing style people at work like about my english to SE as a whole
@Catija actually editing
Cool :D I figured that's what you meant. :P
@Mithrandir Indeed. And then they complain that their question's closed. :P
Every time I get a good suggestion to edit into an answer I carry that little tidbit with me for the next time. "don't do that" "maybe change that" it accumulates and many answers later you learn to write better from the start
Even getting questions closed helps
In real life people still judge you if you waste their time with pointless questions, just not openly most of the time
Learning to condense and articulate problems properly is the #1 tool for finding solutions to your problems on the web
And when you don't find anything and present your colleagues with a well researched question that demonstrates you're valueing their time, they're usually very open to helping you
It's like SE is the dark souls of software development. You get good at it eventually
That's one of the great things about SE... particularly SO... if you're talking to a superior at work or coworkers, there are only so many people you can lean on for help... with SO, there are hundreds... thousands of active users so it's unlikely that any of them will get annoyed by your repeated errors (even when you don't make the same error over again).
dark souls isn't very welcoming
@KevinB It actually is though
Dark souls gets a lot of crap for being unfair and harsh, but it's actually really fair. I suck at action games and I've beaten all the souls titles because you can learn them gradually and progress through them step by step
6:24 PM
Dark Souls?
notoriously hard action game
Oh. I see.
It's kind of infamous in gamer circles for being the game that people fail at repeatedly
@user5389107 equal opportunity pain
I did die over 80 times on the nameless king but lets not talk about that :p
6:25 PM
For all that my first account was on Arqade... I'm not much of a gamer... and even less so than I was as a kid or even a year ago.
Oooh, you know what's a great game to fail at repeatedly, though... that meat wad one with all of the blood.... the character has no skin or it's inside out or something...
@Catija Super Meat Boy?
Hollow knight is also amazing
6:27 PM
i have that, but i couldn't get it to work with my controller or keyboard for some reason
If you ever wanted a charming and intriguing experience of being a beetle wielding a small nail like a sword ...
I also really love Guacamelee.
I haven't gotten to play the second installment... maybe this summer. I don't actually have a console, so I'm dependent on my step brother-in-law to visit or for us to visit him.
@Catija It is really good, but I keep hitting my skill wall. :-(
6:40 PM
Remembering the combos is hard but I really love how they give you the training space to learn them.
... or, I should say... force you to pass a training stage before letting you get back to the game. :P
@JonEricson How far have you gotten in?
@Catija I have all the abilities and I think I'm near the end. Each time I pick it up, I get a bit further on.
Are you going solo or with help? We did it as a pair and it was a lot easier.
Solo. My son and I played a bit, but it didn't stick with him that much.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected: Reduce/remove spacing after header on Google Sites by supper on webapps.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Reduce/remove spacing after header on Google Sites by billy on webapps.SE
Get your wife involved? :P There are a few things I think are great for building communication in a couple ... cooperative gaming ... and canoeing/kayaking (in a single boat).
6:54 PM
Funny you should mention that:
Q: How does one steer a two-person kayak?

Jon EricsonMy wife and I recently bought an inflatable, tandem kayak. I grew up canoeing and we've had many enjoyable outings on the water together, so I thought two-person kayaking would be relatively easy. When I take the craft out solo, I find it very responsive, easy to steer, and (for a recreational-...

> (I can't suggest tags yet.) – Jon Ericson♦
Awww. That's cute.
Did any of the answers solve your problem?
Don't tell my wife, but I think the problem might be that she's a little bit of a control freak and wants to help steer. If your bit of advice works for others, I may have a problem that is definitely off-topic for Outdoors.SE. ;-) — Jon Ericson ♦ Jun 28 '12 at 18:08
Oh, hey... looks like a question for Interpersonal Skills...
Heh. Yep.
@Catija flagging as spam
7:00 PM
@Catija We had a bunch of disruptive things happen (well, just two [better link]) that changed things after that question. ;-) It's been too long since we've gone out together.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, blacklisted user: How to style window borders in Linux Mint w/ Cinnamon? by avensis david on superuser.com
Yes. They are amazing and fun. But they also consume tons of time and effort.
@SmokeDetector K
I wanted a pair of mixed-gender twins so badly... I'm way too much of a fan of Twelfth Night.
7:03 PM
ugg I hate hitting my mental wall so early in the day
Awww... wait... one of your twins has the same name I do, just with a different spelling?
Joy had been saving that name for years. Isaac (which means laughter) was obviously a reaction to finding out we had twins.
That's such a sweet story. :)
@JonEricson it amazes me constantly people that don't realize names have meanings
7:07 PM
Everyone having kids around me
@user5389107 Who else? That post is five years old :P
@Mgetz Have you read The Wizard of Earthsea? If not, it's worth it. (And the power of naming is a central premise.)
@Catija No I mean everyone has kids
@JonEricson I'm jewish... it's a bit more omnipresent to us
7:08 PM
Is having was a tense error
Feels like everyone at work
Place is a ghost time during summer break
I'll literally be the only one in in the 5 person IT department
@Mgetz Literally. ;-)
The "hallway" I work in has had (in the two years I've worked here)... something like... 6-7 kids?
@JonEricson I think nearly half of Jewish Mysticism is about names.. we're a bit obsessed yes.
7:10 PM
Funnily enough all more then one too
Kids are like potato chips. Very expensive potato chips. :-)
I liked "The Kingkiller Chronicles" by Patrick Rothfuss
These are also partially about the power of names
So very expensive.
@JonEricson Well, if you turn the couch potatoes into chips....
I am fond of my ability to comfortably live off of 1200 eur a month
7:13 PM
Many books about magic have an element to the "power" of something's "true" name... sort of, you can control it if you know what it's called.
It harkens back to the concept of what a name is supposed to be ... a true descriptor
And it's true in the real world. If you understand someone fully, that gives you no small measure of power over them.
@user5389107 that would be why about half of jewish mysticism is about names
It never ceases to amaze me that people post SO questions to meta
I'm somewhat anxious about VTC a question by John Wick. :/
@Catija I know I should get the meme... but I don't I'm like Shog... I constantly miss all the meme material
7:24 PM
It's not a meme... just a movie.
I want one of these suits from john wick
They look like they fit comfortably and they also stop bullets
7:41 PM
@user5389107 however, it would be extremely hurtful
@JourneymanGeek Not a duplicate; a new question is more conducive to community discussion than an answer: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310226/…
If your choice is between dead and a bruise I'd take the bruise
in case someone else wants to reopen
@Catija he'd look at something that reminds him of his wife asking questions, and then vow to take revenge
But... if I give him a puppy?
7:42 PM
@JourneymanGeek You also might be interested in this (declined) FR of mine: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309993/…
@Catija Then 'just a flesh wound'
This got so full of references. I'd need a minute
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog grrr, I disagree but I don't wanna downvote
7:56 PM
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ If I may ask, why?
@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ then upvote an answer you do agree with. Remember that on meta the question should be judged separately from the answers
If the question was worth asking even if you do disagree you can upvote the question
(and probably should)
It seems really messy to have multiple questions that cover the same ground. It might be a better idea to post this as an answer. Unfortunately - the only close vote option I have here's the hammer and I kind of feel its appropriate. — Journeyman Geek 13 hours ago
@Catija I got really angry by proxy when I saw the intro to the first john wick
after that I was like yeah screw those guys when he decided to go after all of them
8:01 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog No, I haven't had the time
8:59 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ehhh. I think there's too many such questions
@JourneymanGeek I want my Taxonomist badge!
Sure. What does that have to do with me?
hmm. i have that badge, but no idea what tag i created
i don't even know what that is
@user5389107 LOL. I once got a british colleague in my younger years. She was a bit concerned about our "rude tone" (we hardly spoke english in the office, but the WTF rates were pretty high) :-D (all c and c++ programmers, yes)
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of body: Accidentally lost my /etc/profile by reynarice on askubuntu.com
10:44 PM
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog 'cause I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't linked it in chat. Pretty annoying to post something of yours in chat and see it get downvoted
@Mgetz I mayhaps know that
11:13 PM
(See edited comment for close vote)
"Too many requests"?
Intrusion again
@Shog9 Why am I getting "too many requests"?
I have a theory...
I'm making too many requests?
Am I too fast?
Normally everyone values my speed
@Shog9 Was briefly able to connect, by routing my connection through India
But then, the airport code on that page changed from Burbank to LAX
11:28 PM
there's a pretty strict rate limit
Never hit it after recreating my account.
The last time I hit it was during the Ano days.
@Shog9 The fact that I was able to bypass it merely by enabling my VPN is a good reason why you guys should implement cookie blocking for IP addresses
I don't think you quite get the purpose of the rate limit
if we have to process the request, then the rate-limit has already kinda failed
conversely, someone hammering the site is still a problem even if they don't send cookies
@Shog9 Perform a lot of requests, switch to a different VPN server, get that one blocked, and then switch again, and then hopefully once you've cycled through them all, the block wears off one of the older ones, etc.
there are other rate limits for specific activities - posting, editing, searching - that take more information into account.
@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yeah, folks do that
Double the available servers by using two VPN providers
11:33 PM
but... If you're willing to build an IP-hopping scraper, you're certainly more'n willing to build a scraper that doesn't send cookies
it's like... Door locks. Door locks are not there to stop people willing to break windows. They're there to stop people who might just walk in, but will respect a locked door.
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