@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Sho and Sha are similar, true

Is that a permanent problem now (Like windings)?

Flagged as R/A

@πάνταῥεῖ the hell

@Shog9 Let's change your title to what it is "Chief Dragonslayer"

Nah, don't think it's a troll

@πάνταῥεῖ constexpr ALL THE THINGS

@Shog9 sounds like a gymnast's job

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Second one of those that I've seen... not sure a troll but it sure doesn't make much sense.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ That's at least the second one today

That's how you do 180°

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ This is probably inappropriate content for this chat-room. I'm not gonna flagging it though ;-)

@Mgetz Meta programming (generics/templates) mostly, yes.

@πάνταῥεῖ I'm going to laugh when someone eventually does an embedded C++ demo that does even more code than the commodore one and it all just constexprs out

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Or a contortionist.

@Catija well, with enough language barrier and the weird feeling of being in a new place, they might even be like "what the, where's my question . . . Let me click the big button again"

Two different user accounts, though.

@πάνταῥεῖ at least second time: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/310212/…

Tom Sawyer was an anarchist, not a troll. That user doesn't deserve that nick though.

Shrug trolls just don't sound like up there

//shrug

@πάνταῥεῖ OK, if the username is Tom Sawyer, the likeliness of trolling increases 10-fold

And less of them deserve it, yes.

Deserve what? Shrugging?

Deserve being called an anarchist rather than a troll.

HNQ experiments might apply though.

I always believed that user windings was a bot setup to train smokey (and auditing applied user commands along)

@πάνταῥεῖ Certainly not set up by Charcoal, in any case

@πάνταῥεῖ what's the evidence for that? I think he was a regular troll who was trying to be annoying

@Mithrandir I dunno. That was a recurring username (I was seeing alarmed at SOCVR), and the content of the posts always was clearly R/A flaggable. It was that kinda frequent I thought that a training bot was setup for this.

nope

Well, might be a good idea for some foreseeable cases though ;-)

@πάνταῥεῖ as much as all trolls are

Are there many enough? ;)

Unfortunately, yes.

We've dealt with several similar trolls in the past month, targeting Charcoal specifically -- wingding wasn't unusual for a troll

The people in power empowering rebels to strengthen themselves is a big cliche

It statistically never happens

That sharp edge of the normal distribution

Well, they are big, sedate creatures, which seem to be hard to kill.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Sometimes there are spikes though.

Trolls? Well, flagging as R/A is not a murder weapon

Spam then?

@πάνταῥεῖ that's abnormal distribution

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Good that such things exist sometimes.

@πάνταῥεῖ for a kidney patient, probably

Too much of it

@Shog9 Can you ping someone to answer this question that can only be answered by staff? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309906/…

But again, too much of everything is bad

Even ice cream

Or chocolate

Or volleyball

jquery

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Asking particular users for answers. I mentioned that before :-P

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ now that's just insanity

@πάνταῥεῖ Staff is not a particular user

Or tropical food

It's a set of them yes.

@Mithrandir I was comparing infinities

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ "Banana waffles" for instance

:3

that makes no sense, which is distinct from insanity

@Mithrandir sure it does

Pfft, do you even math

Well, it still wouldn't make sense, but it would be scientific and not make sense

> youtube.com/watch?v=J-UQcOGLDLY

German only sorry ...

@πάνταῥεῖ Oh that's a relief

Considering I can't see the video

The song's mainly about math.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ You seem to live in a very closed world. Can't participate at Twitter, can't participate with YouTube. Is it really that bad?

Online, yes. Offline is highly exaggerated by foreign media

Where are you from?

Iran

Yeah, just checked it.

Awww, I don't even want to ask further about your recent experiences on the interwebz.

never trust foreign media

Ah bah

@Mithrandir never trust any form of media :(

Pippi Langstrumpf is just innocent (well, not really)

Only people might be trustable, and those that experience the thing, and even then, those without an agenda

That's like, 0.25 person in 100000

TL;DR: Don't trust anyone.

Toxic swedish anarchism gist :3

i totally don't have an agenda in saying that

Well, since I'm here, I'm like on the frontline for the media battle. Foreign media exaggerates and lies. Ours exaggerates and lies back

@Mithrandir Redo and verify their math ;)

Extremism is celebrated. Honesty is not an extreme

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ "Honesty is not an extreme" That's probably a big misconception nowadays.

So you mean, there are people that are constantly publicly honest and there are people that listen to those honest people?

I was speaking in a media-ish context. And of course, unintentional lies can happen

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I trust media that I know the bias of, because I can usually see past it and find other sources to find something close to the truth

@Mgetz I've tried doing that a lot

It gets complicated when a strategy the opposing site takes is no coverage

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ actually that is coverage of a sort, it tells you that they don't want to talk about it

Or when lettery international organizations that are supposedly impartial can't agree

when it comes to news an absence of news is just as much a story

^That, or defamation as "fake news" does that job, yes.

"UGF vice president disagrees with UTYUWTZ -- Armbangolia is violating the Be Nice policy"

@Mgetz yeah, but you know, it's a tough job

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ you have to know the story exists to see its absence of course

Such crap for example:

Haha he never ceases to be funny

@πάνταῥεῖ oh the irony of that...

And undermining media

That's certainly something "not so nice".

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ it's less funny if you live here

@Mgetz even less so if your life might get miserable thanks to him.

But still funny

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ that makes two of us

@Mgetz @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I honestly have to apologize, that my home and setting is just warm and cosy!

Mine would be miserabler

@πάνταῥεῖ eh... you went through this before, hopefully this doesn't get that bad

It's worth remembering that not everyone may share your opinion of political figures and SE does apply "Be nice" when talking about non-users for that purpose. Let's do our best to stay civil in this. :)

I am doing my best

@Catija I'm trying to avoid the politics

but I should stop

It's so good. I'm so good

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Appreciated. It's a reminder since it looked like things might be headed in that direction.

Dangit. Well, media discussion turns political

everything is political eventually

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ at the moment it's unavoidable

@KevinB "liberal pizza delivery services"

now @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ has made me hungry

"Alt-right baseball bat"

@KevinB That's one of my thoughts. But it will produce inappropriate content continuously.

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ you tread dangerous ground

@Mgetz I'm an adventurer

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Be aware of the riffs.

"Avengers: Election War"

@πάνταῥεῖ strums a chord

Oops, just spoiled the 2019 one

> youtube.com/watch?v=4B_UYYPb-Gk

Oh, no, there's nothing inherently wrong with political discussion. But it's important to remember to be respectful of the people being discussed.

@KevinB I think the issue is that the likelihood of offense and assumption of consensus becomes problematic

@KevinB pulls out a water gun WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON TELL ME

@Mithrandir Wordings also ;)

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ grabs balloon

@Mithrandir OH SO YOU THINK YOU CAN SURROUND ME I AM A MILITARY TRAINED GUY . . . MARINE . . . SAILOR THING

@Mithrandir party or weather?

@Mgetz water

This stuff is all-caps. Should make it to ToS

@Mgetz Animal... clearly.

@Mithrandir that I knew... I was wondering what size

@Mgetz @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ-size

@Mgetz Have you seen the person-sized balloons that The Slo-Mo guys use for some of their videos?

That's so tiny. Haha . . . Wait

@Catija no but I did search for world's largest water balloon on youtube

This one is better: youtube.com/watch?v=NMbM-ERy2Lk&t=40s

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ No, shouting is just childish, not kick worthy ;-)

@πάνταῥεῖ whoa, all you think about is suspensions and kicks. Think about good things, like a tiger feeding on a . . . Wait no. Like a great white shark . . . No no no. What's wrong with me?

In memoriam @TelKitty:

Nothing is wrong with you. It's me.

Although the greyish great white sharks do look like a pet you can hang out with

The black ones are so cool though

TelKitty was here for longer than I was

(in total)

Only CMs can ride them

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Yes, since all the years.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog huh, there's chronometers for that?

Anarchists != Trolls

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ She had user ID 202362, my old account's was 215114

Years as mentioned.

Hobo != FailedExistence

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog she said why she's leaving?

@ShadowWizard wait what

In all honesty, it's better to just stop using your account, rather than have your post ownership and reputation erased

I am missing @TelKitty and @Yvette. There were bad things and misunderstandings going on IMO.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog What do you mean? I don't exactly understand.

@πάνταῥεῖ If you later want to rejoin the site, you have to start all over again with regards to privileges

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I didn't know she quit. Did she say so?

yeah, but maybe that's by design. If being here resulted in unhappiness, and your account/rep still existing acted as a reason for you to return, removing it eliminates that reason.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I've been starting over already running a sock with not that bad results.

Now, I don't want to run a sock anymore, it seems I am a tademark already.

Let's see...I changed my name to "Inclusive", Jeremy resigned as an SO mod (his username change was for unrelated reasons), Yvette and Mags anonymized their usernames (but Yvette later changed it back on SO only, while keeping her moderator privileges), and NH and TelKitty left the site. Is this all happening because of the inclusivity push, or are they all coincidences?

Oh

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog unrelated for me

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog "this all happening because of the inclusivity push" Yes of course it does digga!

NH will come back I think

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ what what?

@ShadowWizard nothing what

@πάνταῥεῖ wait, @Yve also left??

She's... mod...

She changed her user identity (name + avatar)

oh, well, it became a trend

chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/310756/yvette-colomb .

i was under the impression it was more of a break

What broke them? Anything specific?

(@Yve and @Tel)

no, like taking a break, wrt yve

@ShadowWizard usually something dense and metallic if it's a cartoon

I didn't ping her, because she denied any contact. I'll respect that (change of identity or not)

I like Yvette she's always been nice to me and a positive influence over at charcoal

Even though we haven't always seen eye to eye

@Yvette always was a nice and influencing input regarding moderation questions.

"Stress all around" Pretty nails it!

Going on SE de-stresses me

As does every defeat against Dr. Eggman.

Nuff said from my side. I never intended to end up with such outcome. Let's see how things might de-stress in future.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Probably it does, as long you find defined structures and patterns you feel able to parse from small fragments of anonymous persons. Anyways IMO that's way harder than you might imagine it is.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I dunno who that ubiquituous referred Dr. Eggman should be. Enlighten me please!

^ serious-question No sarcasm involved.

Dr. Eggman is one of the main antagonists/villains from the Sonic the Hedgehog series. sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Eggman

Or do you mean what does Dr. Eggman relate to on SE?

Bugs?

Ah, that simple. Never played that game :-P

@Catija I meant him to be someone like @JonEricson or such. Silly me ...

Power outage at my house

@πάνταῥεῖ Neither have I but I've been hanging around in here for long enough to pick up most of the Sonic references. :/

Was on a desktop computer and my session got interrupted

My mind tends to overshoot all the time ...

And no Wi-Fi, so tethering from my mobile phone

@Catija Refers to real life

Meh ... memes ...

Someone please post a quote of the below message:

Did Catija mute me again?

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog No.

Why would I mute you? Sort of defeats the purpose of being an RO.

Let's just hope my electricity's back soon

@Sonic Paint!

Pictures!

Imperative!

:3

Though, @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ... I'd like to make a request ... I'm glad that you're really excited about our meeting up. I don't really have an issue with it in here but I'd really appreciate it if you didn't take it to other parts of the site... particularly not the sites I moderate. It sort of puts me in an uncomfortable position of looking like I may not be able to be impartial and it is my private life.

Not a problem

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Thanks.

@Catija So these render meaningless regarding SE after all?

@Shog9 What do you think about my experiment proposal on MSO? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/367719/…

@πάνταῥεῖ Well... not entirely... "Chaos Emerald" == "Dupe hammer"... so there's some overlap.

@Sonic Sir Pingalot!

@Catija Thor's mjölnir for rescue.

Thought I'd mention this IPS question here, since it concerns a situation on MSE (but is very much on-topic): interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/14228/…

Kick me plz, I wasn't nice at all ...

@πάνταῥεῖ [kick]

Sometimes the correct punishment is not meting out the punishment they want? cf: "Don't throw me in the briar patch".

But at least anyone knowing me wouldn't even expect me to be :-P

@Catija Now that you're an RO, I'll keep asking you to quote deleted Smokey messages :)

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Sure. Thankfully taken!

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog #itsnotaboutme

Awaiting (back-) time travelers at Stephen Hawking's inhumation.

Goddamn the handful of users who've attempted to take to heart the drive to post nicer comments frustrate the crap out of me. Every interaction I have with them consists of me being told that some wording of mine is offensive in some not-particularly-well-specified way, followed by giving up on me as a hopeless case when I try to get clarification of what's going on in their head.

The chain with jpp at meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/366867/… was the first such argument I got into, and the one with Polygnome at meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/367798/… was the latest.

IMO, the whole inclusion debate, needs to analyze how a majority of people feels best to be included, without hurting them at their already open wounds again. I am not a psychologist, neither I have endless patience to softly adopt anyone. The latter is what I am working about, and I know I still tend into the blunt/sarcasm fallacy.

"the blunt/sarcasm fallacy"?

@MarkAmery ATM, the best way seems to be no comments at all.

"best" from a "not getting into fights" perspective, maybe

There's a downside to no comments... if we don't give specific guidance, users will be less able to know how to improve their questions, particularly in that limbo period between getting posted and getting five close votes.

^ that

Close reasons can't really give the specific help needed.

True

I was going to say essentially the same thing but with more slightly-inebriated frustration

@MarkAmery Neither, the blunt truth telling, nor sarcasm (inb4 humor) would work out well.

Catija said it eloquently :)

I'm still not sure I grasp what the fallacy is, @πάνταῥεῖ

@MarkAmery Maybe mine only ...

"blunt truth telling" and "sarcasm" don't seem like the only available modes of expression

Sure

is the fallacy seeing how to express yourself as a choice between those two options?

@MarkAmery I'm better with painting pictures :-P

As in, like, the "I could be blunt or I could be sarcastic, but neither of those would work, therefore communication here is hopeless because there are no other ways I can even conceive of expressing myself" fallacy? :P

Is that a Koan?

I well know about my deficiencies.

I think it may only be a koan to you, @πάνταῥεῖ - I think the solution to the paradox is probably obvious to everyone else :P

My primary solution is: Don't comment at all.

I've seen really weird reactions all over.

Having not seen your comments, I can't say for sure whether that's a good thing... but I would guess that it's a pity and that useful information and guidance is lost from you holding back

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I think it's a few things

That's kinda pity, yes.

Bit of that, bit of the chat moderation push, bit if other things

@JourneymanGeek You've been hanging here for as long as I've been here too, so why haven't you picked up the Sonic references?

How are your references relevant in the LTE?

Bandwidth!

You assume I don't get them.

Sharing knowledge and keeping up site quality are still my main motivation attractors.

Ever thought I just choose not to engage that way?

@JourneymanGeek Why not? What's the dark side of that medal? Getting into the way of Stack Exchange's business achievements?

No no.

In terms of Sonic references :p

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog read what I said :p

See what I've painted as counter ...

eh, i haven't really changed the way i leave comments. Yeah, most of them are blunt, some have a bit of sarcasm, but i haven't seen very many negative responses to the ones i post on questions. Comments on answers on the other hand... i avoid unless they're being snarky with 'why the downvote' comments.

Souls who haven't felt to be welcome formerly, won't feel being welcome at any stage anywhere again. Who's fault is it primarily? We can do loads of efforts telling them what's going wrong (while assuring them that's not a big mistake, and it can be fixed easily), but people don't read. They want answers, ASAP. They don't want to hear criticism or advice. I dunno how to deal that beyond what the SE system currently allows.

@KevinB I've not seen much difference, but anyways I tended to comment more on questions rather than answers though.