@Shog9 But you said it was in a post! A comment isn't a post.

> There are no doubt tons of rough edges here, as my reference to the privilege illustrates; the help center, flags, user profiles and of course tons of meta posts will all still reference "comments". The goal here is just to see if this one weird trick actually works - if it turns out that it does, then we can see about making it less... weird.

(no, thunderforge didn't read the post either)

<3

Do it.

Is Jon going to be doing the analysis?

@Shog9 The hover-over text is not a "help center, flag, user profile, [or] meta post".

So he was right in making that comment.

extrapolate

^!!

@Shog9 You didn't say "etc." It wasn't clear you're supposed to extrapolate. He probably thought the same.

> tons of rough edges here

Riffs

Arrr b-3

Why not fix the un-collapse button text at the same time, too? Why was the decision made not to do that?

Because now you have a blatant juxtaposed UI inconsistency.

"Choice" implies that it was intentional... it could have been an oversight or difficult to do without mucking with the entire network... or Kasra didn't have time to do it... or .... any number of things.

there are a bunch of plausible explanations here, but the real reason is that it doesn't matter

@Catija Those are all valid reasons for making that decision. The point is, if it's an oversight, say so.

if this doesn't have a sizable effect on behavior, then there's no sense in investing further time into it.

I use comments so frequently but I can't actually tell you what that text says because I'm blind to it. Any similarly long text in the same font/color would not be noticed as different because it disappears as soon as you start typing.

in a couple weeks, I'll turn it off and that'll be that

@Shog9 Anyway, once you're done with this conversation, can you please take a look at this FR of mine?

denied

I read it yesterday

@Shog9 Why no tag, then?

I read it in bed while falling asleep

And why no reason for denial?

Joonas already wrote a sufficient answer

@Shog9 It doesn't matter, but this came out of the blue?

g.redditmedia.com/…

wat

@Shog9 What would be the technical burden of implementing it?

Yes, wat?

we've been discussing it for many months

on MSE and IPS

I had a CR in the CR queue for months before that got shut down

...I always have a comment-related CR in the CR queue...

this is why it's so hard for me to handle the "is this a real problem?" responses. Been tearing my hair out for six years over it.

my head is shiny enough to use as a blind spot mirror, all due to comments

@Shog9 His answer doesn't go into detail as to why my feature is necessarily bad.

@Shog9 You read some posts from Sonic to fall asleep? Weird ...

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I don't really see it as being significantly different from the mod request to be able to put questions in the Close queue and they've been denying that request for ... all time.

> So, we decided on the additive approach instead, and worked hard to keep the complexity down. One way to do that is through the concept of “minus 100 points”. Every feature starts out in the hole by 100 points, which means that it has to have a significant net positive effect on the overall package for it to make it into the language. Some features are okay features for a language to have, they just aren't quite good enough to make it into the language.

-- Eric Gunnerson, Minus 100 points

Well, for certain client-side features, users who value a feature very highly can just install a user script

Also relevant:

And, uh, not to belabor the obvious, buuut... Your FR wasn't exactly popular

@Shog9 I well understood that add up approach in first place instead of discouraging of actions, though some actions should be discouraged from the bone. I myself will serve as one of the worst examples, if you like to measure the impact.

@Shog9 Several unpopular FRs later go on to get implemented. Similarly, several popular FRs go on to be declined.

Next time, imagine your proposal sitting at a score of -100 the instant you post it. And write with the singular goal of convincing a prejudiced reader to put aside their assumption that it is a bad idea and upvote.

@πάνταῥεῖ here's the thing about comments: folks talk about commenting like commenting is a tool such as a Torx screwdriver, that exists purely for some well-defined task and is inexplicably misused by clueless idiots for some other task.

But comments are not a Torx screwdriver.

They're more like a flathead screwdriver.

easy to hurt yourself really bad

Which, in addition to driving flathead screws, is frequently used to drive Phillips screws, Torx screws which someone has cut a grove into, bolts that someone has cut a groove into, used as a chisel, used to stir paint, and in certain bored moments thrown at the wall like a dart.

I totally agree. But there are so many torx screws out there, and they don't even fit well with the assembly plan :P

This isn't IKEA unfortunately ;-)

So we can't just say, "well, we're gonna fix that screwdriver-throwing problem - we're gonna make the tool weigh 180lbs!"

It'd be better to make the wall bouncy, so the thrown screwdrivers return-to-sender

because, yes, that would indeed stop bored people from putting all those holes in the wall and occasionally in other people

@Shog9 @Joel would probably not be amused :-D

...but it would also completely destroy the utility of the tool, which is quite varied.

We should probably give folks a supply of disposable paint-stirring sticks, and probably give the more careful users some proper chisels.

But we still need a way to drive screws, and for that perhaps we need something more like a Torx driver: a tool that is actually effective for the task, and visibly unsuitable for most other tasks.

@Catija FYI, my most recent IPS question kind of applies to you, in my past communication here: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/14228/…

@KirtiThorat I'm beginning to wonder what you're up to...

So this then is the goal of the test currently being run on IPS: can we make comments look less suitable for the myriad uses and abuses that they're generally put to, and by nothing more than a small change in appearance encourage their exclusive use for one specific task?

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Working? /shrug

can we make comments into a Torx driver?

Screw that.

@Shog9 They're more like a sonic screwdriver. They are useful for a lot of stuff, but also breaks a lot of stuff. Also doesn't work on wood

@PrincessLuna I was referring to the fact that the system shows her has having talked just a little while ago, but there are no visible messages...so I'm beginning to wonder what she's saying in those private messages.

@PrincessLuna Doesn't work on hedgehogs either

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Does it matter?

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog They do at some frequencies. Like a hedgehog-whistle

you know there are like a dozen or so private rooms for employees on this server, right?

@PrincessLuna I'm immune to those, because Eggman tried to use it on me, so I need to get around that.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog So you can't hear?

@Shog9 The fact that one has talked in a private room is visible to the public.

@Shog9 I think he does, but still wants to know what's being said

There are TONS of people talking, all the time, whose words you can't see.

Is that a challenge to find the words

@Shog9 There are posts that mention that "eventually, moderators will be appointed on MSE"...is there not a chance of that happening anymore, since they will become mods here and thus be able to see employee-only content?

I'm naturally curious about what @KirtiThorat is saying, and what she's doing here in the Tavern.

Why does it matter?

Top 100 MSE chatters, last 365 days:

Chatty user           Messages
--------------------- --------
Core Build            68776
TeamCity              34465
Nick Craver           32473
The Eye of Providence 30361
Shadow Wizard         29898
Internal TC           18989
Dean Ward             18714
Journeyman Geek       14868
Zoe the Wolf          14691
Orion                 14369
Shog9                 14272
SmokeDetector         13961
Benjamin Hodgson      12353
Adam Lear             10820
SA TeamCity           10383
Walt                  10113

(names chosen arbitrarily for users who changed their names over the past 365 days)

@Shog9 I'm not a wizard!

who you expect me to believe, a query I wrote in 40 seconds or you?

LOL

@Shog9 "TeamCity" annoys me all the day long, he he. Are you using the same CI system?

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog No, I asked that at one point... It's more than just the diamonds.

@Shog9 Who is "Core Build"?

the master of chat, clearly

@Shog9 Define "Core Build".

It's probably like Smokey for the servers.

The main SE devs

Probably writes messages when the core gets built. Or fails to build

AKA "The core builders of SE"

@πάνταῥεῖ see section "The Build System" probably not entirely out of date

@Catija Am I just like this guy?

...you know

@Shog9 Looks quite like my screen all day yes ;-)

@Shog9 Sometimes my clipboard gets cleared

But it's incredibly cool and effective.

TC is worth a penny!

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Alterar código HTML via jQuery by Leonardo Dias on pt.stackoverflow.com

@Shog9 I think you should watch that video

I hate watching videos

@Shog9 He thinks you're the woman in the video.

Also, my phone is telling me I should watch this video about someone restoring a file

@Undo valid guess :P

@Catija You could be too

sd nao portuges, sry

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I know... but it's more funny if it's Shog.

@Shog9 right click file -> "restore from recycle bin". Video length: 0:03

Here's the entire Techmoan puppet series if you want to see it:

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN2yCnHTG_6rlyYFpwUX2u0m_HVHpHO0F

@Catija What do you think of this one? youtube.com/watch?v=lSpGyf-3W6I

@SterlingArcher different type of file

oh then just burn your HDD

The magpies beg to differ

Also, @nav... Can you not?

Whenever I'm walking outside, and a squirrel wants to cross, I always stop and wait for it to cross.

@Shog9 Who's "nav"?

You mean @πάν?

Probably ;-)

Yes, name full of characters not on my kb

@Shog9 [@] [tab] 5x[backspace]

No tab on phone.

Only mtn dew

Maybe it's the mobile implementation but on the desktop view, just typing @ will suggest anyone whose name starts with a non-standard character... I thought the mobile view did that, too... but I guess not?

I am an annoying nagger I know well ...

@Catija it does, I just usually type past it before seeing it

for all names

Fun fact squirrel moms won't look for a cold baby. So if you find a lone baby squirrel, cold, the mom is not looking for it.

hence the mispings for various Tims and Jons

And why I'm often "Cat", I guess. :)

@SterlingArcher That's just plain cruel :-O

that's nature

3:-D

satanic laughter ...

"I use Linux. I don't have a clue how to use it, but it's a way to gain the moral high ground in conversations like this."

Ubuntu is for you ...

Managing RedHat is for disgusted pro's

@πάνταῥεῖ Watch it

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I already did watch it before of course.

Cross compiling for RedHat boxes is an incredible pain!

While conversation with @jonskeet might feel like listening to a unicorn.

Disclaimer: I explicitly opt out of the naked scene shown in the above image!

Why are we posting images of naked women on horses?

@Catija The unicorn and virgin fallacy.

That doesn't make it appropriate for this room.

That... probably still shouldn't be here, though.

UGH... But for the want of a delete button...

@Catija Move to Chimney

That doesn't make it die.

It's still in public.

@Catija Enough spam/offensive flags? Don't you have enough rep to handle those?

I flagged it, you should be able to process it since it's flagged

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog No. Only mods can get rid of it in one go and it only has two right now.

@Mithrandir Why not flag it?

I am awaiting another week getting chat banned :-P

I don't particularly like the way the chat flag system works.

I really don't think that's something you should be joking about.

@Shog9 Can you please delete the image above?

@Catija I am not joking at all, but bringing up serious things blatantly (just blunt)

@Mithrandir That's not a valid reason not to flag it.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I'll decide what's a valid reason for me not to flag by myself, thank you. I believe that casting flags on my account is, in the end, my decision.

Just seems stupid to ride the line in a room full of moderators and employees.

@Mithrandir The chat flags have been annoying for ever. I doubt that can change:(

@Catija Don't forget, you can kick now

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Kicking doesn't get rid of the problem itself - the image.

(Just a general comment)

This site requires that content be safe for work. Art or not, women wearing only their hair is not that.

If someone complains and you don't remove it, then yes the next option is flagging which tends to come with a suspension

which you know already, from one or two past experiences

...one or two or 9

Sorry for sounding like ranting, but that's all going to get into a gestapo like censoring direction (says a german, 2nd after WW2 and joining the GDR for society)

?

@Catija Women riding unicorns is worth a "shiver" no? Am I not be allowed to express that in a way?

at chat?

That's not a new concept.

@Shog9 Was too late to remove, but well :-P ...

@Catija Seems you're trying to fight foo's with me ;-)

@πάνταῥεῖ I'm really not sure what you mean by that.

@Catija I am after #inclusion and an officially sworn in feminist (if such things can really exist). I am using clichés and sarcasm to drag things into my narrowed public views. Dig a bit behind the bluntness please.

hmm. Going through the list of my own flagged image posts here on chat.MSE. Most of them are spiders or mollusks.

@πάνταῥεῖ Where does feminism enter the equation here?

I feel like you got to push the line a lot further than I did.

@Catija You mean the picture?

I generally have no issues with the image you posted. I'm not being prudish or anti-naked women over naked men... For me, this is a room visited by users who are at work (including myself) and I expect it to not have content that is NSFW in it. Naked people are, by definition, NSFW.

@Catija NSFW is a broad field. Mostly depends of what your boss just thinks it is or not.

If you want to post an NSFW image, at the very least, obscure it behind a link that says "NSFW image of woman on unicorn" or something similar. You don't need to let it onebox.

My boss is my friend.

or coworkers. Or clients. Or network admin.

Depends a lot on where you work. Which isn't really a call you can make on others' behalf.

@Catija I've been adding a disclaimer, what else do you need?

> You don't need to let it onebox.

A disclaimer does no good if the image is live in the room.

@Catija I understood that concern

@πάνταῥεῖ chat is public, a disclaimer doesn't do anything. It's NSFW, it probably shouldn't be put here

Sorry then

OK, this is so not fair

@Cat is RO, and I'm not

The fact that I'm irresponsible is besides the point

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Blame @Shog9 ... I received no warning.

All I ask of anyone is that when unwanted responsibility is thrust upon them they shoulder it grudgingly.

I'm doing my best... I will do so... but I reserve the right to complain about the tools.

... or lack thereof.

the move tools works decent enough for getting problematic content out of the room quickly, though it probably wasn't intended for that purpose

@Shog9 Heavy edges and riffs, just like wearing the machine gun for a longer march :-P (I dunno if you ever attended a military training)

@Catija ugh, tell me about it

For the most part, they mean nothing

And an italicized name sometimes looks weird

I prefer M.A.R. to squished M.A.R.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Constantly ejecting OS X install disc when trying to boot by Angelena Neilsomt on apple.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: I'm curious about learning a new discipline for self defense by Isaiah Smith on martialarts.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: If sun rises at 7:30 then could I pray fajar at 7:25? by AMJAD KHAN on islam.SE

Uh. Morning

o/

Oh, by the way, @SonictheInclusiveHedgehog The answer to the question in that video about what you call chips... is "crisps"... They actually do have a word for what Americans call "chips".

In britannia, long may she rule the waves...

Chips are what the colonials would call thick cut fries.

Chips are crisps

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, offensive answer detected, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected, blacklisted user: Is Mahamaham connected with kumbh mela? by Yaqub on hinduism.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer, toxic answer detected: Is Mahamaham connected with kumbh mela? by Umar on hinduism.SE

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ also, @Catija is a mod, and by default a room owner, and as such well versed in arts like cat herding, and wet, slippery noodle knitting

@JourneymanGeek Wait... I am? Are you sure about that?