Tavern on the Meta

2:07 AM

@SmokeDetector That's a re-scan of the prior report, not the exact same question reposted again

@Shadow @rene chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1343/…

Shog hit 10k annual rep today

3:33 AM

ugh morning.

4:31 AM

Happy Cinco de Mayo!

5:36 AM

@Shog9 Is this supposed to happen? area51.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/21658/…

@SmokeDetector tpu-

7:35 AM

→ 12 messages moved to Chimney

@Derpy they didn't see this coming: After 4+ months in Definition, we have to close this proposal

Sometimes, it seems like answers are trolling. Who would write such things?

Humans?

stackoverflow.com/a/50186251/1026459 (its deleted, oops, I blame review), but still... that grammar. I love how it ends with RESULT!

screenshot? ;p

> I just got it! What has happened is you have used Merge and centre maybe and that takes away the faint lines. uncheck merge and centre and the faint grid lines come back. RESULT!

#verbatim

Suraj Rao

7:51 AM

@rene when one closes another is started

omg lol, the hair! the hair is standing up on my arm. I feel cold chills. RESULT!

man, they keep coming back up

like zombies

I have seen too much Ghost Adventures. We went out and got a geiger counter in order to try and debunk ghost phenomenon as radiation interference.

@SurajRao yeah. There is also Weapons which didn't even bother to pick a different name

Can we just start a SE called fun and let whatever the fak topics you want asked so long as they are not in violation of the be nice policy?

7:54 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: sensor to detect rope position, as it nears the end of the line retreval by paul on electronics.SE

It would be nice if the upload button in chat supported pasting...

heh. it would

and they had one for mobile chat too

@TravisJ That's been proposed in Area 51 and been shut down every time

Well, we do hate fun.

@JourneymanGeek I tried using the desktop UI to upload images from my phone. It didn't work, I just got errors every time.

@TravisJ Go to stackapps.com, request a user script

8:07 AM

lol a userscript to upload an image? Oh man, that would be a touch of work...

You would have to port the normal post functionality into chat, then use your fkey here, post to the normal upload for posts, get back the url in success, and then send the url here in chat.

I gotta say though, for a group that hates fun there certainly seems to be a lot of drinking, goofing, and laughing when any of us get together in public... Just sayin'.

In all honesty, none of that happened when I met up with Catija here.

Not one laugh? No beer?

I don't drink.

Fair enough

Laughing?

Yes, not only about SE but also about Bennett

8:15 AM

Was it a work function?

No, we were just outside the local major airport watching planes

So it was just for fun then

In particular, trying to get a glimpse of the first Boeing 747 in Austin

@TravisJ Yep

I rest my case.

I wonder how many times people have been serially downvoted on mSO and no one noticed because there is no rep or recent votes to look at.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Repair error 0xc0000225 without a Windows 8.1 recovery disk by Penelope Alsop on superuser.com

8:24 AM

@TravisJ I can only speak for myself and yes, you're serially down voted by me ... oh wait ...

lol, me? all of my meta posts are -0

@TravisJ that is worse enough, right?

j/k though, if you post on meta there is no way no one downvotes it

people do ;p

Cause they disagree?

Just that you don't have a reason to really post answers unless you're a mod, bored or both

@JourneymanGeek we're talking about Travis J posts ...

disagreement is not an option

8:28 AM

lol

oh I was meaning "j/k though, if you post on meta there is no way no one downvotes it
"

I mean, people downvote me. Clearly cat people.

I am a cat person. Where are your posts?

I disagree with the j/k

@TravisJ I've received the Mortarboard badge on MSO. So, rep is indeed kept internally, but not used.

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog Yup, it certainly is

How can you disagree with j/k? Was is the slash? The j? The k?

Some other letter? abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz?

8:31 AM

@TravisJ yes

@TravisJ yes, I'm a Windows person, I only do \

Just because Windows isn't backwards compatible doesn't mean you should hate on the backslash.

@JourneymanGeek What do you think of the answer to meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309507/…? Is it worthy of the full bounty, or should I let it only get half?

up to you

Good, because I generally contact post authors to see if they have any objection to my awarding the full bounty to any answer they receive, should it not help them.

Whenever Omega's around, Rouge is somewhere near...

one-more-close-vote-needed meta.stackexchange.com/questions/1343/…

8:38 AM

I disagree that it is a duplicate.

@TravisJ Why is that?

CAPTCHA inherently has to do with rate-limiting anyway.

While CAPTCHA is slightly covered in your proposed duplicate, there is no section for it.

@TravisJ Doesn't need to be, there are sections for the specific actions, and one can easily find what triggers a CAPTCHA.

Why do I randomly get logged out?

The proposed duplicate even links back to the previous post as citation.

I don't know why you would get randomly logged out, that doesn't happen to me.

@TravisJ The answer was originally posted by Jeff Atwood as an answer to a support query, and then subsequently made into an FAQ.

8:44 AM

I don't see the facility in linking them as duplicates.

@TravisJ In case things change, we only need to update it in one place, rather than in two.

I don't like the way it is setup. In my opinion, there should have been a note mentioning the captcha faq in the rate limiting faq, and only shown the rate limits for items. Allow the captcha faq to remain the legitimate place for up to date information. That way there is only one accurate place for information. With this duplicate suggestion, there will be two places of information, and they will more than likely get out of sync considering only one place will be updated going forward.

9:22 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Rest API strategy for mobile app in Magento 2 by jhonson56 on magento.SE

10:10 AM

@Shog9 I skimmed through that paper and as far as I can tell the bit you quote in chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/6926538#6926538 is pretty confused; I'd assumed it meant that snippets with warnings were copied as frequently as answers without warnings to other similarly-highly-viewed questions, or some other stat that adjusts for question popularity, but as far as I can spot they didn't do that analysis and they're just saying that snippets with warnings are copied [1/2]

more frequently than the average across all security-related snippets they could detect. Which is exactly what you'd expect: people only edit security warnings into popular answers with lots of votes, not into random 0-score answers on 100-view questions. [2/2]

(They also point out the fact that the average answer with a security warning has score>15 which is several times the average and credit this to the community choosing to upvote the answer because of the security warning. Which is kind of frustratingly dense. I can't tell if it's a "folks who aren't familiar with the site don't spot the obvious opposite causation" thing or an "who cares if this methodology is nonsense as long as it passes peer review" thing.

11:15 AM

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309892/…

delv-pls 20k+ meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309892/…

user981916

12:20 PM

Best way to read different StackExchange networks.

I follow multiple networks in StackExchange where I select Hot/Week/Month to see what I missed.

This is a bit time consuming since I have to switch and click to each one instead of having it delivered to me.

I tried my RSS reader of choice to add the feeds but it defaults to Recent instead of the time period I chose.

Can anyone recommend a better way?

@user981916 Try the Stack Exchange app's homepage

user981916

Is there "an app for that"? ;)

1:28 PM

@Shog9 After more thought, I must disagree with you. One can wonder what someone has learned, that is indeed true for everyone, but there are users from which the learning is evident. I see it in chat, I see it on main.

Communication is hard, let's go shopping...

What I mean to say is that I agree with "we all wonder" but disagree with the (possibly added by myself) notion that that wonder is founded in reality.

yeah I need a new motherboard. let's go shopping

1:51 PM

@YvetteColomb finally got around to watching padawan eating... he's adorable. And his tail is fluffy ;p

user310756

2:12 PM

@JourneymanGeek he's so darn cute! He only comes up to my hip and I'm 5 foot 4.. he's like a baby Bambi. Today he let me pat his neck while he was eating and his sister even let me touch her neck! It was a big deal and she let me know it wasn't to be taken lightly LOL Funny girl. They both eat out of my hands now.

and XD

I kinda was like "ugh, I need to watch this after work"

then slept all afternoon so I had to go on the transcript to find it

user310756

I hope no wild dogs come into the area, they've not been sighted for 2 months? He is at terrible risk if they do. The big horses are pretty tough.. so hopefully that will be enough to keep him safe

:(

user310756

@JourneymanGeek you're so sweet, thank you.

lol

I had a stressful day + lol, some odd personal semi drama ;p

user310756

2:14 PM

I post a lot of boring youtube videos of them, as that way I can have a public list for people to see, as opposed to just fb

so twas needed ;p

nothing really boring about animals doing animal things

user310756

@JourneymanGeek oh drama, hate drama - allergic

@YvetteColomb oh this is fine

user310756

well that's what I think, re the animals

user310756

good

2:15 PM

just things not moving ;p

user310756

anyway Padawan is a darling little thing...

(The whole matchmaking thing I complain about on TL ;p)

user310756

@JourneymanGeek hmmmm

user310756

ah ok. I avoid TL.. I 've been hanging out in the blue moon room

XD

Its still mostly private, and that and RA is the main places people know me well enough to know what's going on lol

(lol. "If it works out, can we come to your wedding?")

2:17 PM

@JourneymanGeek wut

@hey parents finally got around to trying to get me married off. Old school.

I'm basically making sure things keep moving, and kicked it off with a few people we know

But its a pretty amazingly hands off process which ugh, ;p

user310756

that would be hard, to sit back.... yikes exciting

lol

aah... yeah, that's... hard...

I actually think the social dynamics has changed

@YvetteColomb well, the tricky thing is getting the process started.

And I think the first two people we talked to - one's a "I'm not really ready" and the other's out cause her family is kinda odd.

And that's one reason I wanted to do it oldschool - its useful to get context cause its still a bit of a crapshoot.

I guess in practice, it ends up working a tiny bit like speed dating?

user310756

2:23 PM

well it depends on how well your family know them I guess

ah!

Or my extended family

Suraj Rao

so I guess JourneymanGeek can be found in some of the match making portals? Are you using the same profile pic?

oh no

I intentionally want to avoid those as much as possible

Its literally the one condition I put on my parents when they help handle/coordinate this

user310756

avoid what as much as possible?

match making sites

Think of them as super culture specific dating sites for people who do things almost oldschool ;p

hmm

I'd rather optimise for better information (on both sides) over quantity?

2:32 PM

certainly not Tinder

user310756

yes

user310756

lol Tinder

hah

That certainly would not work

So - I'm going for a fairly simplified subset (same broad caste/linguistic-religious background) but most of those sites are pretty terrible ;p

If I was a dev....

user310756

hehehe

But the important stuff isn't really something you can filter for.

user310756

2:39 PM

it's tough.. the better known to your family the better

ya

My first choice was this young lady who's at 1 degree of seperation.

user310756

and?

user310756

are you ok discussing this here?

But she's kinda apprehensive of leaving india - so I've got her in the "If she's ok, I'm ok"

lol

ya

lol

I have highly progressive views here XD

@JourneymanGeek Interesting, I just wrote a paper for a class on how arranged marriage works in India

user310756

2:42 PM

yeh I'm an open book

Q: Stack Overflow, you all get an insult! Solutions as a community

(Other than on cultural compatibility, but ugh, an outsider is going to have so much trouble settling into our culture)

user310756

1

There's been much discussion about a recent blog post. So much so, it now has its own tag welcoming. Clearly many people feel the community is being accused of being sexist and racist and this has upset many people, understandably, none of us want to be insulted (now hold onto that). Ok.. so if...

and its a choice that was never made sooooo

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog the social dynamics have changed so much

and not always for the better

user310756

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog really? what was the class?

Especially in a smaller community

I actually kinda see the appeal of our old "enclaves" for this sort of thing since we're so spread out these days

2:43 PM

@YvetteColomb Introduction to Sociology. Taking a course on social and behavioral sciences is a core requirement for all majors at my college.

user310756

@JourneymanGeek yes

@JourneymanGeek I have a cousin in India who's getting married

user310756

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog ah k. I understood arranged marriages fared well, is that true?

@YvetteColomb traditionally yes

Meaning?

2:45 PM

but eh, it depends. Sometimes it ends horribly wrong.

but its kind of a useful option is you want to get married within your culture, and there's precious few options locally, and you're a small, very diasporised community

I mean, the divorce rate is much lower, but there is a confounding variable: in India, divorce is generally seen as a huge sin, while here in the States it's...not seen that way. So the statistics don't include couples that separate without divorcing.

@YvetteColomb in a sense - dating is you deciding it will work out, then making the plunge.

Arranged Marriages are you deciding based on data, then trying to make it work

Pretty much

and quite often societal pressures mean, well, you make it work.

user310756

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog yes that makes it hard to quanitfy in terms of quality of marriage

user310756

2:48 PM

@JourneymanGeek half of a marriage is attitude. The other half is compatibility

user310756

without the first it's irrelevant of the second

and for us, the process is "initial contact" -> "formal meeting" -> (something quite similar to but entirely unlike very victorian long distance dating_ -> engagement -> (more victorian long distance...)

I told my cousin, take the Myers-Briggs personality test, and have prospective brides take it as well

so there's actually a certain amount of time that you can probably bail if things go wrong.

I've probably reading too much manga/watching too much TV that makes me wonder "arranged marriages" usually doesn't fare well... but I guess I read/watch wrong serieses...

2:50 PM

and some folks actually run the formal meeting ala ...

user310756

@JourneymanGeek there is something nice about that.

@hey The main misconception is that they generally conflate arranged marriage with forced marriage

@hey statistically? even in my generation, it feels like a 80-90% chance of it working

@SonictheInclusiveHedgehog I actually think, taking all things into account, that the really important thing for me is a hypothetical future mrs geek is ok with it on her own account.

Make sense... I guess it's because those serieses use arranged marriage as the main conflict

hah

In anime?

2:54 PM

yeah... Eastern culture...

Well, I guess its a thing.

If you're in love with someone or not interested...

you go for it

Its fine. I respect that.

I have a few cousins who've done that, and they're happy. And those folks are part of the family as far as we're concerned.

user310756

I have to go to bed, It was good to talk and catch up

user310756

until tomorrow

nite!

yeah, its later there ;p

and I slept all afternoon

;p

user310756

2:57 PM

nigth

I also fell asleep this afternoon... hopefully can sleep again before 1am...

I was on night shift this week, and it was hopping busy

was trying to stay awake (day shift early next week) but had a headache

ugh, take care!

(also saying that to myself because I have a badly sore throat)

hah

I had that early this week

Hit it with the double whammy

when disease transmits through the internet...

3:04 PM

I tend to take dequadin (OTC lozenges) and the red eumenthol jujubes. ;p

the former kills off the germs. The latter kinda handles the symptoms, tho its a bit of an acquired taste.

3:20 PM

... I have no idea what it is you are trying to say with "you all get an insult", but I salute the apparent effort to make this question less of an active "fuck you all" rant. Thank you @YvetteColomb.

@FélixGagnon-Grenier I personally think the best reaction is to be better people, and eventually show folks they're being toxic too ;p

3:36 PM

being a better person is indeed possibly the only valid goal :)

and I think its an arguement most people can see.

I think something folk miss is I don't think people are actively aware of how they sound, and the impact they have on others

Good or bad

@TravisJ oh god, so this

I've refused to use canned comments for years

I do think you can be nice and assertive though

user310756

@FélixGagnon-Grenier yeh a failed attempt at humour.

user310756

I really must learn to stay away from meta..

And since I'm watching Cobra Kai... ;p

There's a few different ways you can deal with people you disagree with.

You can go at them directly, no mercy. You can get a mob.

Or you can just simply let them deal with themselves.

Or....

you can just walk away and focus on other things ;p

user194636

Or you could engage with them to debate constructively and with empathy

3:45 PM

@PaulWhite in a sense, at that point, one of you no longer disagrees,

that's an ideal, yes

user194636

How so? I can disagree while understanding someone else's position on a topic

user194636

An ideal? It's a default, surely.

Well, maybe its just me.

user194636

I have no way to know :)

I find very often my disagreements are not with stands, its with methods.

and yes, you definately have a point with "Or you could engage with them to debate constructively and with empathy"

and I probably should have said "not fight at all" - though I can see this as either making friends/winning over people, or other things

but its late, and I made a bad ... I don't even know whether I can call it a TV show reference ;p

3:49 PM

but when you feel you're going to have a debate, it's time for chat room because comment is not the place for it... but you have to wait for that "continue in chat room" feature appear! unless you create it manually (so much trouble for debate...)

oh

or out of band

cause no offence to anyone but...

twitter is not designed for nuance and conversation

user310756

@JourneymanGeek band?

er

not sure what's the root

but more or less - if we're talking about SE on SE its in band.

If we're talking of things outside, its out of band? ;p

user194636

@hey that is annoying and leaves so much mess behind even when it does eventually appear

ahh

In-band signaling

In telecommunications, in-band signaling is the sending of control information within the same band or channel used for voice or video. This is in contrast to out-of-band signaling which is sent over a different channel, or even over a separate network. In-band signals may often be heard by telephony participants, while out-of-band signals are inaccessible to the user. == Telephony == When dialing from a land-line telephone, the telephone number is encoded and transmitted across the telephone line in form of dual-tone multi-frequency signaling (DTMF). The tones control the telephone syste...

radio

@PaulWhite its something we probably got wrong.

user310756

3:52 PM

ah

We treat comments as forums threat threads

user194636

@JourneymanGeek for values of 'probably' approaching certainty, yes.

because people are inherently social and cannot help themselves?

user310756

chickens are always in band @TelKitty

@PaulWhite why is it "mess" to begin with?

3:53 PM

its frustrating cause I do it myself ;p

@FélixGagnon-Grenier in a sense - we have an entrenched usage of it that we'd actually want to get rid of but we can't

and most approaches towards "better comments" are messy.

user194636

@FélixGagnon-Grenier Because when I'm reading a main-site question or answer, I don't want to have to trawl through 100 comments to understand if the main text is correct or not. If I want to read a side discussion, or how the question/answer got to the state it did, I would visit the chat and/or revision history.

on SU we've told users they're transient. But that's kind of a workaround

also its a source of conflict at times

people sometimes use it as a way to DM people

and it rarely ends well

hmm, I guess "continue in chat room" should delete and moved all existing comments to that chat room, like what mods usually do....

user194636

@JourneymanGeek It is a workload, not least because most users have little interest in sharing that workload. "The mods will clear it up".

user194636

@hey Yes!

3:55 PM

@hey and even that works once. Only once.

it already ~~moves~~ copies everything. if really one finds they have left "mess" behind, it's on them to delete their own comments and flag the irrelevant ones

user194636

@FélixGagnon-Grenier It copies.

yes, copies

user194636

Some good users do flag, but those flags need handling. It's pointless busywork.

user194636

Moved to chat should mean moved

3:56 PM

if the comments were pointless to begin with, they should not have been made

@PaulWhite I don't actually mind those

yeah, I used the wrong word, I meant copy. I'm aware of the mechanics

user194636

@JourneymanGeek Don't mind which? Sorry, I lost context.

those pointless busywork trivial comment flags ;p

user194636

@FélixGagnon-Grenier 90+% of all comments are pointless, either immediately or after a short time. People still make them.

3:57 PM

are you including yourself in that? ;)

@FélixGagnon-Grenier yes. We're part of the problem

user194636

@JourneymanGeek Oh right, no I don't mind them either. In fact I encourage them. I could still be doing better things with my time than handling them if the system took care of it.

user194636

@FélixGagnon-Grenier Me? No. I am extremely conscientious.

lol

user194636

No I'm serious.

3:58 PM

@FélixGagnon-Grenier 8 years of bad habits man. 8 years.

I understand the "mess" because I often ignore the chat when: there are comments, then a stray "let's continue this in chat" link, then comments afterward. Possibly there's nothing continued in the chat

user194636

But then I also leave comments as reminders for myself to follow up so I have to keep them under control. Deleted = job done.

@PaulWhite yeah me too. the comments you've made earlier, about how accused someone of treating you as a child, and whatnot, were nothing close to "not messy", nor constructive, or empathetic.

if you're to propose something, uphold yourself to it, and you're presently not.

wait. me?

no, Paul

4:00 PM

oh

user194636

@FélixGagnon-Grenier Link? I have no recollection of that at all. You must have mistaken me for someone else.

@FélixGagnon-Grenier I actually think pretty much every long time user is guility of setting a poor example to an extent

user194636

I honestly think Félix is talking about someone else.

I stand corrected, indeed

hah, chalk one off for communication? ;p

4:03 PM

Paul, or apaul? Either way, never mind...

I was furiously sure that a Paul White had made the comments I was reffering to

Please accept my apology

Q: Fixing comments in 5 minutes. Intrigued? Let's discuss

84

I made a quick change to Area 51 recently, and it had a profound effect on how people used that site, so let's discuss. Background: The basic building blocks of every SE site are the QUESTION and the ANSWER. They are clearly portrayed as such, so if anyone puts "something else" in that space, ...

feature-request comments user-interface

user194636

@hey I think you'll find I am the Paul :-D

I like this idea

but its 6-8 weeks away

user194636

@FélixGagnon-Grenier No worries chat can be hard to follow and that user is clearly misrpresenting me :)

4:04 PM

:)

user194636

@JourneymanGeek Me too.

@JourneymanGeek IPS is currently testing this for 6-8 weeks...

user194636

I heard some anecdotal evidence that they had seen an improvement

user194636

but that it might also be due to heightened drama on meta.SE and meta.SO

user194636

science is hard, I guess

4:06 PM

but based on how often comments were moderated on IPS (and much more meta discussion there)....

naw

it was before

and IPS kinda has it worse with comments cause of the subject matter

user194636

The system also makes is harder than it should be for comments to work as intended

agreed

user194636

Like if someone comments to ask if I can clarify a point in my question, I can do so, but have to comment at that user to make sure they are notified about the update. Then they say "thanks" and we're halfway to a chat room already.

ah

true

user194636

4:10 PM

As the writer of the post, I should be able to mark their comment as "completed", which would remove it and notify the comment author.

user194636

> "your comment has been addressed by an edit to the question"

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title, +2 more: MORE INFO @>> supplement4fitness.com/shred-t3x/ by tsbngjdh on astronomy.SE

@SmokeDetector gone to black-hole

4:27 PM

@JourneymanGeek yeah... I find myself having trouble with that lately. since generally, when speaking in my primary language I don't have that as much as here, I'm not sure wether to think it's english, the medium, or me, that's the biggest cause

yo Mark

sup Felix

cooking an onion tart.

nice

I'm back at home for the weekend, waiting for my mother to cook for me - greatly preferable to anything I'd produce.

heh. bon appétit!

the tricky thing is my vegan sister is here, so I must use some tricks to replace eggs and cream.

which reminds me that all my attempts at being vegan have failed after at most six months

related: as opposed as I am to most of her stuff, this Tweet of April Wensel's genuinely made me laugh: twitter.com/aprilwensel/status/879548794924220416

I succeeded at giving up chicken for good a few years back (unless somebody else cooks it for me when I'm visiting them, in which case I don't complain), but never put in the time to find some proper vegetarian or vegan meals I liked so I could take it further

six months is pretty darn well played

4:36 PM

:) it's the cheese that always gets me back

like... cheese. hmmmm.