Tavern on the Meta - 2018-03-21 (page 2 of 2)

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8:01 PM

Bah, that is indeed a significant difference

it's easy to forget, but there's a difference between a tag that doesn't exist and a tag that doesn't have any questions in it

(and also a tag where all questions are being filtered out, or a tag where the tag engine is hiccuping and doesn't think there are any questions, or both of the latter)

I don't actually know what's going on in that question, but there's nothing specific to SO about it except for the tag itself.

It could've been a temporary glitch, something with his tag preferences, or... Who knows.

Probably not us.

user315433

In the past day or two, all metas filter randomly comes up empty. Anyone else using those things?

Can't you blame the tag-engine?

@SFTP there was a search bug report earlier that has rectified itself by now. Maybe that is related?

user315433

Swype autocorrected "don't know" to "funky knife".

just the "no answers" filter

weird

whelp.... All meta questions are answered. Guess I get to knock off early!

8:10 PM

Yeah, we run the place while you're gone, no worries ...

user315433

For me it was newest. But now it works again.

happens with other filters too: stackexchange.com/filters/330265/my-filter-5

that one works for me

user315433

The newest works for me, no answers does not.

user315433

Poor beginner not getting a kind and gentle treatment

user315433

8:19 PM

I'd consider a "Keep Stack Overflow Mean" tshirt if I was still wearing tshirts.

I love how these discussions always start out as "folks are too mean; look at those mean words, that uncaring tone" and then quickly transforms into "...but forget that; let's just ditch downvoting"

Yes, I'm sure if those voters were expressing themselves with words, the site would be much nicer.

@SFTP never too late to wear T-shirts :D

@Bart the energy is a lie

user315433

Hm. If a question is deleted, presumably none of [on hold] 5-day period rules still apply, so it may as well be [closed].

user315433

There wouldn't be a reopen review if it was edited.

@SFTP autocorrect Swype to Skype

user315433

8:33 PM

On the plus side, Swype can work as username generator for when I run out of ideas

@SFTP hehe, reminds me I wrote today a random id-number (same as US social number) generator.

8:55 PM

@Magisch What do you think of this type of abuse: creating a new account with the association bonus on one site, giving that bonus rep away in a bounty, immediately deleting the account (as it has made no posts and doesn't need a 24-hour timer), and then recreating it and doing the same thing again many times?

@Ano would probably be pretty obvious

@Magisch Do you think that accounts with the bonus should be subject to the 24-hour deletion timer even if they haven't posted or voted more than once?

sounds like a pretty out there scenario to be worth changing the rules over

so no

user202362

Body fat contains approximately 10 percent water, while muscle is approximately 75 percent water.

user202362

So the more muscle you have, the more watery you are

9:09 PM

@ShadowWizard nooooo, I needs it

bug help, ima too old

bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug

Oooh, a bug!

@Ano This has been brought up on meta several times, including non-hypothetical examples. Have you read up on it?

user315433

@Ano Instant deletion is available if the account posted at most once and never voted. One vote disables it already. Awarding a bounty counts as a vote.

@Shog9 I was asking one specific user on their personal opinion

And I'm trying to encourage you to use search ;-)

9:15 PM

@SFTP They could just not award it, instead letting Community award it automatically?

Offering the bounty counts as a vote

But the 24-hour timer isn't visible to others, so can't they just wait 24 hours (plus few minutes for scheduled task) for it to expire, as they don't qualify for manual dev review?

user315433

They can. So we have a hypothetical problem here. What do we do with hypothetical problems?

user315433

That's right, discuss them to death.

9:29 PM

So we have a solution prepared and don't have to scramble to come up with one once it ends up happening.

@nicael Have you discovered the loophole that allows multiple NAA flags to be cast by the same user on the same post?

If something is tagged design I guess it is no longer on the plate of @AdamLear ;)

@rene dammit, you've seen through my cunning triage methodology

I kinda like it. — Shog9 ♦ 3 mins ago

But you left the oooh tag

@Ano I haven't discovered any loopholes and bugs here for years

9:31 PM

@AdamLear yep, you're welcome, no thanks....

@Catija In the words of Shog9, I kinda like it ;)

bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bugs-bunny

@AdamLear Well, then I guess you'll want to rollback my edit :P

But what does it look like if the tags are different lengths? — Catija 2 mins ago

That's a mutant tag

9:32 PM

@Catija EDIT WAR ENGAGE

I WILL PUNISH ALL SUPERFLUOUS TAGS WITH IMMEDIATE EXPUNGING!!!

WITH EXTRA PUNS!

@Catija oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh oooh

6

@JonEricson See, now that's what I was talking about... it looks really cool.

Ouch... the starboard is weird now.

You ... ruined .... the starboard ....

9:34 PM

@nicael During the years when you did this? That was my heyday.

@rene That's a new bug

oy

I think that, technically, whoever starred it ruined it.

@Shog9 Are the tags supposed to collapse like that?

two pings, two kicks

@rene What two pings?

9:35 PM

@Ano not sure what you mean

Why would you even bother pinging someone about that? Clearly there are lots of people in here who can address it.

Pinging is designed just to admire that gorgeous animation of users entering the room

@Catija technically you're right

@rene Oh, right, I totally forgot that I typed "@Shog9" at the beginning (that end quote should cause it to disable the ping)

Next thing that's going to happen... someone's going to star it and we'll be stuck with it for two weeks.

9:37 PM

Can't ROs clear stars?

They have to want to.

that ^

Can mods clear stars?

Or can only employees do it?

Yes... but only on the server/s they're a mod.

we have a very laid back approach when it comes to starboard cleaning

9:38 PM

@Catija Yeah, that's a given.

@Ano If it's "duh" why bother asking the question?

@Catija "but only on the server they're a mod"

If you're going to be rude when people answer your question, why would anyone want to do so in the future?

Dirty stars: best stars.

@Ano You nitpick every single fracking detail about every single thing you ask... so I try just once to head that off by giving you additional info and I have it shoved back in my face.

9:41 PM

....

@Ano Now you're looking for someone doing this very deliberately and sneakily for very little gain with 72 hours between each bounty award, making it significantly less lucrative then normal serial voting

It's also incredibly easy to detect and attracts a lot of unwanted public attention right out of the gate via use of bounties

@Magisch It's exempt from any automated script that tries to detect and thwart it

I think that's incredibly contrived to try and change any rules over and if it ever happened it was as loud and clear as a beacon in the night compared to other forms of serial voting

@Magisch Change the username and use hidden communities with each instance

9:53 PM

@Ano So is any sophisticated serial voting ever

You would have to put in an incredible amount of work to even make that half work, and even then it wouldn't be worth it

What if you're not using the rep for fraud, but putting up bounties on good questions for altruistic reasons?

I think you're giving the voting reversal script too much credit and the CMs and mods not enough

Then you have a similar low damage situation as the person that does nothing but upvote 40 posts a day on several sites

I read one case on meta where a user got serially upvoted, then used the rep to offer a bounty before the script ran and reversed the votes

mhm, happens a lot

usually if users do it to inflate sock puppets those just get deleted in the aftermath

but I'm the wrong person to talk to about that, as I'm neither a moderator nor a CM

In my experience anonymously editing, I found it's trivial to bypass IP blocks. Just use a VPN!

(Submitting a single edit that trips a content filter will automatically ban an IP for seven days)

9:59 PM

Maybe you should not publicly air SE's hidden defenses like that

...and mark any prior edits made from that IP as "our system has identified this edit as possible spam"

I didn't describe what the content filter is

But basically, making drastic changes can trigger it. I even have one case where I removed a sentence from one edit I was making, and the system allowed it through, while with that sentence it didn't allow it and insta-banned my IP.

It's fine for automation to be a little stupid sometimes as long as there are humans around to clean up the mess. We're not building self-driving cars here.

I learned the hard way that SE automation is sometimes not ideal

But there's always people around you can report to

(and drive to the brink of madness with flags)

user image

@JonEricson indeed ^ :)

So electorate willing one day I may be able to do more then just pass off everything to the mods

10:12 PM

@AdamLear mm I guess I should submit that PR huh

@TimStone oh yeah, that'd be cool :) we realized today that we're still using the old v1 on signup pages too, so that's been my day

Woo!

@AdamLear As well as on /captcha (e.g. meta.stackexchange.com/captcha)

@Ano IIRC those aren't actually served as captchas to people anymore. we've been on v2 for those pages for a long time (or should be, at any rate)

@AdamLear Can't you redirect /captcha to /nocaptcha, or rename /nocaptcha to /captcha?

10:23 PM

it's handled another way

Also, ever thought of using Invisible reCAPTCHA?

@Ano not gonna matter long term, since all the old code will be removed

and I don't know if we thought about invisible... I think it might be good for the signup pages, but in the meantime I'm bolting the existing implementation on

This is why I prefer people reply to my messages even during conversations

user315433

10:39 PM

> Would like to hear more from @NormalHumanSE on how they did it! -- Deborah Kurata at 3:30 PM - 21 Mar 2018

user315433

What did I do, again?

user315433

10cc - Good Morning Judge

11:26 PM

@Bart use a battery

@SFTP made SE better?

user315433

By deleting my accounts, probably.

@SFTP Survive meta. The SO twitter account linked to this:

163

Q: How do I participate in Meta and not die trying?

Meta doesn't like me; I can't seem to keep my points. How can I post better and be well-received?

discussion meta faq-proposed

user315433

The SO twitter account recently sounds a lot like Shog.

user315433

Anyway, if I did something good on Meta, it was a long time ago. I've lost my touch.

I sure hope not. He specifically claims to not understand Twitter.

People get so obsessed over downvotes. It really doesn't make sense to me.

user315433

11:43 PM

If all you have is 1 post and it's being downvoted, it's you, personally, being downvoted.

user315433

If you are an active user with a bunch of posts, it's easier to shrug off any votes.

Exactly. My content is me. That's the equation people make.

That doesn't make the downvotes bad, though.

Without downvotes, we have no way of expressing quality. We're specifically prohibited from deleting answers for being wrong.

Anonymous

Today at work, the outer bathroom door handle partially broke and fell down, and then the automatic door kept endlessly bashing it back and forth with a clanging that could be heard across the floor. I am simple and found this hilarious.

@Catija It's the missing dopamine. When you downvote, you're withholding my dopamine rush.

11:47 PM

Downvotes tell you "you have work to do to improve your post"... or at least, that's what they should mean. The problem I run into is when users downvote punitively - for example, for failing to search a site with millions of questions sufficiently well for a duplicate.

This is why SE works.

Dopamine.

@JeremyBanks HAHAHA ... That's just so sad.

user315433

user image

user315433

I don't think my downvote here meant "you have work to do to improve your post".

user315433

It was more along the lines of question-blocking the user forever.

11:50 PM

@SFTP Of course it did. :) "Your question is asking us to do the work for you. Start your project and ask us specific questions when you get stuck."

Clearly that question was not useful and needed downvotes. It didn't offer any money.

user315433

The post was deleted in 2.5 minutes after creation, btw.

Anonymous

@Catija Poor robots trying their best. :(

@SFTP Which I have no issues with at all. Clearly, it's a bad question and deserved that.

Finding the stuff that Ol' Slim has done on meta is... Hard. Both because there are so many different accounts and because, well, a lot of it is indirect - this is true for a lot of people; their contributions aren't delimited by posts or tags, but by the myriad connections they've made with others.

But that all sounds like a load of excuses, so here is a short list of posts matching specific criteria that are probably but not necessarily relevant:

https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/283263/magic-link-for-stack-overflow-in-spanish
https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/17671/how-much-experience-should-a-potential-moderator-have/17674#17674
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/251102/help-center-article-on-question-rate-limiting-should-appear-under-asking
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/250626/the-isanswered-search-parameter-documentation-is-incorrect
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/236943/pagination-of-network-wide-inbox-is-evil-and-buggy

user315433

11:54 PM

Okay, although that was mostly me trying to make Math.SE better, not SO.

user315433

Yeah, some of those were nice to see implemented.

hey, we all have ulterior motives.

@Shog9 What's "Ol' Slim"?

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