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Journeyman Geek

12:41 AM

FOUR PROPOSALS AND 11 SITES IN THE FUTURE....

hichris123

1:06 AM

@SFTP I have them with a first round upset.

Journeyman Geek

1:58 AM

→ 9 messages moved to Chimney

HTTP

2:08 AM

Four proposal in the morning?

Journeyman Geek

0

A: How should I request embargo on data access?

I don't think it works like that - that is to say, you can't pick and choose who gets to see the (limited) personal information out of the current or future moderation team. If you cannot trust the moderators (who all sign the same moderator agreement), and this information is necessary for th...

0_0

This reads a lot like "I want to choose which moderators see my personal information"

HTTP

2:29 AM

@JourneymanGeek is it better if you also disclose that you're a mod on another site? Because you know better than most of us plebs...

Journeyman Geek

hmm, maybe?

Rob

I don't think it's really relevant, to be honest

user315433

It's a reasonable concern at the time of contentious elections. There were some high-profile user deletions on SciFi in similar context.

user315433

And I got some site profiles deleted for this kind of reason.

user315433

I don't have to trust someone just because they got a few dozen votes.

Journeyman Geek

2:31 AM

DOne so right at the end.

Shog9

@Catija I don't rightly know what to make of that...

Journeyman Geek

@SFTP well as much as you can trust any mod.

but picking and chooseing which mods can see (the entirely optional!) personal information is a slippery slope.

Rob

Especially since their concern is that they can't trust the soon-to-be elected mods

Journeyman Geek

@Rob hypothetically soon to be elected mods

and that would indicate a bigger problem

and in a lot of cases we can't really do our moddy duties without them

@Rob in which case they can quit the site, talk about anonymising data or remove anything they don't want folk to see

HTTP

I'm curious why the OP doesn't feel insecure with current mods, which hints there's a personal conflict with some mod candidates..? (they haven't even been elected yet!)

Journeyman Geek

2:37 AM

So, as I understand it - there's "mod" or say "employee" flags on an account

but you can't go "I don't trust @journeymangeek not to sneak into my house and leave a warm present on my bed, as such, I don't want him seeing my PII"

or go "I only want mods who are disembodied heads to see my PII"

Rob

@JourneymanGeek Indeed. And I'm really unsure what PII he thinks mods have that could negatively impact him at work

Journeyman Geek

Yup

user315433

@Rob Being able to find out who that user is in real life. The negative impact would come from what's in their posts. (I imagine)

user315433

It's Academia... people ask "I cheated on an exam / plagiarised a paper / slept with my professor / etc.. what now"

HTTP

2:53 AM

I have that sentiment too though because it's also applicable on maybe Workplace and IPS

user315433

Or perhaps they did nothing particularly wrong, but discussed the shady dealings of their boss.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: can you set an to come to the desktop by Sqd Vuj on apple.SE

Rob

@SFTP Only if they added it to their profile. Otherwise, as far as I know, only their IP is exposed to moderators. I kind of get where they're coming from; but if they voluntarily provided their name to Stack Exchange, then, well..

Journeyman Geek

@SFTP @HTTP posting anonymously is an option.

user315433

@Rob Their email, tied to SE OpenId, could be firstname.lastname@university.edu and it's in the profile.

user315433

3:07 AM

@JourneymanGeek Posts are already there. Time Machine is not available.

Rob

@SFTP Yeah, hadn't thought of that. Good point

Journeyman Geek

hence more or less, don't share any information you're not comfortable with sharing with anyone

But he's literally saying "I don't want specific mods seeing my PII"

user315433

Yeah, of course the request can't be granted. But I see where it's coming from.

Journeyman Geek

In that case though - the mechanism is dissassociation?

HTTP

Dissociating all posts? That's the same as account deletion?

user315433

3:12 AM

Perhaps only 1-2 posts are potentially compromising, then those can be disassociated.

Journeyman Geek

yup

in both cases

and there was one case when someone posted anonymously, and was associated later

HTTP

Hmm, but I thought the concern is more on the poster's email as (S)FTP mentioned...?

(Email from account registration)

never mind~

Journeyman Geek

3:27 AM

well, that too is (kinda) optional. And once again, if you're not comfortable sharing it with one mod, you shouldn't be comfortable sharing it with any

also, TIL about stackexchange.com/legal/terms-of-service/usg

which I've never noticed before

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, +5 more: READ MORE @>>healthexpertproduct.com/viarexin/ by kamplazu on apple.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Repeating words in answer: How many times has the matter in our solar system been recycled from previous stars? by NotARealPerson on physics.SE

HTTP

@SmokeDetector not really wrong for its crypto- counterpart...

Journeyman Geek

4:01 AM

I don't have the problem with current moderators. However, under current EU law, I have a right to not provide an agreement to new parties that will be able if elected to access my private data. In this case, two possible ( not yet decided) moderators, I wouldn't like than to have my emails and location, bcs it can endager my career, and I wouldnt let myself be bullied out from SE. — SSimon 3 mins ago

this is kinda...

IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that this would literally make our current user-moderator system impossible if its interpreted the way he did

HTTP

@JourneymanGeek probably Stack Exchange Privacy Policy Update could help?

user315433

@JourneymanGeek Considering a new mod as a "new party" makes no more sense than considering a new employee such.

quartata

There's no way that works that way. Literally every website would collapse

user315433

The privacy policy says that SE may share personal information with moderators.

user315433

Certainly, I don't get to tell my bank that I will vet the employees they hire or contractors they deal with, and decide on case by case basis who gets to see my account balance.

HTTP

4:12 AM

@TylerH The name's in the policy itself. As far as I know, appointing a DPO is another thing we do for compliance with the EU regulations. We didn't hire someone just for that, although that's neither here nor there. — Adam Lear ♦ Mar 9 '17 at 16:49

hmm...

quartata

He's saying he wants a "restraining order" against a mod in the comments

...what is going on here

user315433

Someone forgot to take their medicine.

user315433

@HTTP Adam F is that real-life lawyer that they hired a while back.

quartata

taking it a little too far perhaps

there's definitely missing context here though

Journeyman Geek

@quartata someone trying to be an armchair lawyer

SmokeDetector

4:25 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: evermaxmaleenhancements.co.uk/cosmedique/ by raoikqikl on puzzling.SE

Journeyman Geek

So, problems here - we don't actually know if he's under EU jurisdiction - or what specific law he's referring to

HTTP

yeah, considering the displayed location is Macau.. either he's from there, or currently there

Journeyman Geek

Macau is... currently under chinese law?

HTTP

Certainly not EU ._.

Journeyman Geek

maybe with some elements of portugese, but certainly not part of the EU

HTTP

4:28 AM

I think this can be considered as the context

0

Q: I have anxiety and hard time asking questions because I am concerned that I can be identified

This is not my first question about privacy at Meta. In the recent year, I got more paranoid, but the following question where a user asked something, and literally, everyone can find out who he is, returned my fear of being exposed. I am so afraid that people can do even with me, that I hide my ...

Journeyman Geek

Eh, ya

user315433

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to meta rants. Meta rants lead to ragequit.

HTTP

apparently there are more contexts from their Meta Academia posts

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: brainfireadvice.com/cognivex-clarity/ by gujki kdo on puzzling.SE

SmokeDetector

4:51 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to tell an overweight person that the hike will be too hard? by Jhon on interpersonal.SE

HTTP

!!/report interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/11933/152 interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/11932/152

SmokeDetector

@HTTP Post 2: Already recently reported [ MS ]

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: How to tell an overweight person that the hike will be too hard? by Jhon on interpersonal.SE

quartata

5:16 AM

sd del

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad pattern in URL body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching product name in body: Life of wicked thoughts and desires d by user22221 on astronomy.SE

Ano

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/308046/…

quartata

5:36 AM

turns out there were still some DW problems

sorry for all the bother

SmokeDetector

6:40 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad pattern in URL answer: Use Backblaze online backup with Ubuntu by Joe on askubuntu.com

user315433

6:58 AM

IT'S MY NAME

Tweeted by sassiestone on March 16, 2018 at 2:42 AM

Journeyman Geek

7:09 AM

heh, I saw that one

John Dvorak

8:25 AM

blasst from the passt

Magisch

10:34 AM

@JourneymanGeek FWIW, I'm the data protection officer in my company and I have had to read that new EU law, and I think he has a limited case here

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch he does need to be EU based right?

Magisch

Only in so far as he can revoke his agreement for Stack to use his personal data then

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch which more or less is an account deletion/post de...wassname, right?

not a "I don't want specific people specifically to access my PII"

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek no

Journeyman Geek

ya

Magisch

10:35 AM

Stack operating in eu and/or the data being accessed by people in the EU is enough

Journeyman Geek

I didn't want to say outright he should delete his account then

Magisch

Yeah he can demand that Stack delete his data

So his account would be gone

Journeyman Geek

yup

But he dosen't want that

Magisch

PII is described as any information directly relating to a natural person, so UserID (not pseudo anonymized) and username fits that

So stack could fulfill their due dilligence by just deleting his account wholesale if he gets litigious

(IANAL I have to stress this)

John Dvorak

... or just wait patiently until he gets thrown out of court

SmokeDetector

10:44 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: What does this picture say in circular Gallifreyan? by My name is Doctor who slim on scifi.SE

Derpy

.... shouldn't someone at least wonder WHY an user would want to delete his account in order to protect his user info from a potential new moderator candidate? If he really has reason to do that, I think that there are bigger problem on hands that making fun of his concerns....

Magisch

@JohnDvorak Well he could demand SE delete his personal data and SE would have to comply

from what I know

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch which is more or less dissasociation

then no one can see it?

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek Stack could implement it that way, yeah

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy I'm not making fun of his concerns ._.

Magisch

10:54 AM

There is no reason and no right to expect stack to do a piecemeal solution

Journeyman Geek

nor should anyone be making fun of his concerns.

@Magisch which is more or less what I said ;p

SmokeDetector

11:12 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body: Linux/Unix environment variables by sujatha yarlagadda on unix.SE

Derpy

11:33 AM

@JourneymanGeek nope, I was referring to some of the comments on the thread that somehow seem to express the "ye are paranoid" message

Magisch

tbh though, that request is pretty arrogant

"The right to be forgotten" doesn't also obligate companies to continue to work with you. So I assume if he sent a deletion request (a C&D letter for PII storage, essentially) to Stackexchange they'd react by just deleting his account whole cloth.

Derpy

again, I am not commenting the request. I am just wondering why he had to ask.

I would like to remember you the nomination we got before Shog removed it...

Magisch

Inferring from the context probably because he had personal experiences with one or more of the candidates and fears retaliation within his field of academia if they find out who he is because he didn't endorse them / specifically not endorsed them

Derpy

precisely.

And that is either groundless paranoia from him or a valid concern based on solid precedents - in which case that person should probably be removed from the nomination

If a mod candidate is giving the impression that he will abuse his mod position even before getting elected....

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, bad NS for domain in body, bad NS for domain in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +3 more: freesupplementrial.com/vigoriax/ by user280267 on apple.SE

Rory Alsop

12:04 PM

@Magisch the right to be forgotten doesn't even require companies to delete the information they hold about you

@Derpy that is an entirely separate question though. If someone has a valid cyber bullying complaint against another user or mod on SE, that should go through the usual channel. If found valid, the suspension given would prevent someone becoming a mod anyway

@Magisch wording it "right to be forgotten" is going to cause all sorts of problems, as people think that is what will happen. In reality it is trumped by many other regulations and laws that require keeping logs, audit trails, references etc

Derpy

And again I don't recall to ever having stated the opposite. I only said that it is a little weird to see very few people wondering why the user is afraid of cyber bulling.

Journeyman Geek

12:26 PM

@Derpy kind of the general tone of his post I guess

Magisch

@RoryAlsop You do have a right to revoke your consent for the storage and usage of your PII though, afaik

It's actually a massive headache because the new law also requires companies to have a procedure to remove someone's PII from all backups and any place that data could be and there's some very specific mumbo jumbo with what counts as a backup vs an archive

@RoryAlsop I am thinking of filling request to police about cyberbullying if you have the police report about potential moderator than I think SE will consider revoking that user nomination, I think that is my only option if I wan to keep account — SSimon 49 mins ago

This now looks like the guy is just desperately trying to get SE to revoke someone's nomination

Derpy

on an unrelated notice, I just discovered a third special edition existed for Ni No Kuni 2.

And it has exclusive content too. Weird.

This way, no edition has every possible bonus item included

Rory Alsop

@Magisch nope. Not all of it. As an example, banks will continue to hold an interesting range of PII. GDPR is not a priority in all cases:-)

Magisch

12:42 PM

@RoryAlsop All of it that isn't required to be kept for audit purposes

Rory Alsop

And it isn't actually required to remove from backups - as long as you can ensure that if you restore from backups you have an effective way to remove the previously removed data again

Magisch

@RoryAlsop I've read a different article about that from the german association of IP lawyers

Although I admit I'm not a lawyer so I might be misinterpreting.

They make a distinction between actual backups and backups that are also used for archival purposes (for instance to satisfy retention dates of data). And require that delete-requested PII be removed from all backup media that is also used for archival purposes

Rory Alsop

@Magisch there is actually quite a lot that needs to be kept. For a number of reasons. I have a few lawyers, and I sat on my last banks GDPR programme so I'm pretty good on what banks need to do. We are a special case though

Magisch

@RoryAlsop In my company's case it's pretty much just invoice and billing information that needs to be kept

Banks I imagine have a metric ton of regulations on what they need to retain

Rory Alsop

@Magisch most regulators have agreed that isn't going to happen. That said, Germany has the best personal privacy protection laws in the EU so I can believe it there.

I'm in the UK, which is not quite as good at protecting citizens

Magisch

12:46 PM

@RoryAlsop It's a massive PITA for us. We basicly have to buy a second backup system to decouple from the first

Rory Alsop

It gets even more fun when your employer has to report to all the regulators globally. And they all have slightly different requirements

Magisch

The german regulators are fierce in that

You have to be very careful with any sort of PII. The first reaction over here was to re-examine what we need to keep and toss out a whole bunch of PII and stop collecting even more

Rory Alsop

For the individual, I like the German approach. But as a techie looking at how to put in those controls... Not fun

Magisch

I think it's a tad ham fisted

probably not helped by the fact that part of my job is now to deal with the ugly end of that stick

FWIW, OP is becoming less sympathethic by the minute:

> I oppose this candidate because of his detachment from reality and issue with other cultures. Fomite personally reported me to moderator team ower not agreeing with his approach. He attached the rude attributes to me. Why? he is not able to understand other culture and I am afraid my stay here will be jeopardized. I don't feel safe having him around as moderator because it is highly biased and represents only point of USA academia.

Rory Alsop

Is that on the academia election site?

Magisch

12:59 PM

yes

Spent a good long while trash talking 2 nominees over what was probably a rude flag on a comment. One because he believes the nominee cast it and another because another nominee defended Fomite.

Rory Alsop

Gawd. Well, I only have 129 rep there so can't even vote on the election, but I can flag etc...

Magisch

I think his problem is he believes to have a right to be here like this is some official institution.

When facing the very real threat that if you're going to make legal threats and openly talk about filing false police reports that a website might just decide that you're not worth the trouble anymore.

@RoryAlsop Might want to get a CM on that by the way, OP is asking for ways to file police reports to compel SE to do something. I imagine they'd want to know ahead of time if something like this is coming

Journeyman Geek

1:15 PM

@Magisch I assume cms read meta. And presumably here

Magisch

@JourneymanGeek You're probably right

Derpy

Totally not inspired by Breath of the Wild

John Dvorak

I doubt you can copyright an art style

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch you could flag tho

Magisch

Because I'm incredibly nosy I think I pieced together what the disagreement is/was

Probably missing a metric ton of context but I have somewhat of an idea now

HTTP

1:35 PM

I forgot the election chat room... grabs popcorn

Derpy

...And I doubt you took time to look at the whole site. There are more similarities than the art style. Also, to be fair, I didn't say "copied" or "stolen". I said inspired. That said, some may even argue that Extinction hasn't taken some inspiration from AoT, so I don't see much reason for arguing over it.

Rory Alsop

1:52 PM

@Magisch I have left a note for CMs - but I assume they are already aware

@Magisch I found as much detail as I could but ran out of time over lunch

Magisch

Normally I wouldn't care, and I don't really have any skin in the academia election, but this OP is trying to legally compel SE to do his bidding and take action against individuals with no proof presented or present. And then he talks about filing police reports with the express purpose of trying to get nominees disqualified - this sounds an awful lot like actual bullying to me.

And all of that because his comments got flagged and he (presumably) got a mod message telling him to cut it

I'm specifically very concerned about this:

@Magisch as I said, I need to file complain to police or criminal department? — SSimon 2 hours ago

If you deliberately allow the user that is under investigation access to data, that is pretty much unacceptable by both standards of law — SSimon 2 hours ago

Essentially admitting he'd file a fraudulent police report just to prevent SE from operating the community elections as normal

Derpy

2:16 PM

At the risk of playing devil advocate, I don't see where that message equals to "fraudulent police report".

HTTP

Me neither... he seems wanted to file a real police report

Derpy

The most probable actual scenario is that he had some fights with another user and that user is in a position to potentially take revenge on him in real life. Think for example of a student that has criticized the post of one of his teachers and so on, possibly escalating in comments war. He probably knows the real world identity of the "teacher", but the teacher doesn't know his.

Now he fear that if the teacher becomes a mod he could use mod level access to profile info to discover who "that impudent user that criticized me" was, and take revenge. If the "teacher" is an actual teacher in an university or a boss in a work place.... well, that is not completely unfair to fear.

I think I have already read in the past about bosses "suggesting" their workers to upvote their posts... Luckily never happened where I work, but I wouldn't totally exclude it.

That said, the way he is asking for "help" will indeed bring nothing good.

Either he has some real strong reason to ask and he is panicking right now, in which case it is better to contact the staff on a private channel and ask for help there, or he is trolling.

After all, we have people who think that fans of some shows must certainly be mentally ill... so you may never know...

Journeyman Geek

2:32 PM

@Derpy Hypothetically - If I had a user try to bully me, in addition to getting another mod to handle it, I'd report it to the community management team. The thing here is, he wants a thing that dosen't exist, and seems to have it based on a complete misunderstanding of EU law.

Derpy

and you are probably right. I only said that I wouldn't just assume he wants to fill a fraudulent police report with made up info.

Journeyman Geek

heh, I'm a bit more cautious with my words. Have to be.

Derpy

That said, I must also said that I didn't took the time to see who the actual candidates are, or if there are other users commenting about the same "issue" in some other chat rooms.

as I said, he may have a point to be worried or he may have just made everything up in order to discredit a candidate, but I have no other info to judge so I won't take any position but limit myself to be an outsider watcher.

HTTP

2:49 PM

summary: OP opposes 3 out of 4 candidates due to "dishonesty & biased in academia", and no one understood OP's argument because there wasn't any proof

Journeyman Geek

erf

Derpy

To be fair, even if he has some ground for his fear, he wouldn't have to give proof of it on the meta board. On the opposite, it would be very unwise to do so.

The only thing meta could help with would be suggesting him the best course of action

which partially has already been done

on the opposite, his current post does indeed fall in the "rant" category and would not bring him much help. Even assuming good faith.

HTTP

The only AGF:

in 2018 Academia Moderator Election Chat on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, yesterday, by Discrete lizard

@ff524 In fact, I'd go a bit further and say that SSimon's wild accusations have been useful, for once. For 3 out of 4 candidates (I feel padawan has been treated a bit unfairly, but ech, I do understand opposing all candidates is a bit of a tall order), SSimon expertly tested their response to accusations and/or other behaviour that can be interpreted as hostile.

Derpy

I still say that IF he has serious reasons to be worried, he has to contact the staff and give them the full picture so that they may decide if this is indeed a situation requiring intervention

A meta post will only result in dramma.

aaaand, based on the last quote from HTTP, this may not be the case.

probably trolling then.

HTTP

I'd put my bet on "extreme paranoid" then, from OP's history of Meta Academia posts...

Feeds

3:09 PM

I mean, we already live in a world of flying robots killing people. I don't worry about how powerful the machines are, I worry about who the machines give power to.

Derpy

Does the machine empire come with free black blindfolds that are actually really advanced augmented reality visors?

HTTP

???: AI becomes so much like a human, that they repeat human's history of war & peace

> @StrongBad Thank you, I would like to offically put embargo on my data for new moderators

and that's how it started...

(btw, apparently the context was revealed slowly on the chat, but still not convincing at all)

user315433

Wikipedia has "recent deaths" page, but no "recent births" page.

user315433

> Abu Zarin Hussin, 33, Malaysian snake handler and internet sensation, cobra bite.

Derpy

@HTTP that said, now I'm curios. What kind of agreement one has to sign when he is elected as a mod?

HTTP

3:23 PM

@Derpy academia.stackexchange.com/legal/moderator-agreement

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy stackoverflow.com/legal/moderator-agreement

or some site specific varient

user315433

On xkcd site, long tap on the image brings up context menu with alt text on top of it. At least in Brave... But that does not happen here in chat.

user315433

Perhaps not surprisingly, mod agreement is in English on localized sites as well.

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