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Derpy
Derpy
4:00 PM
does disk encryption even help in any other scenario than "stolen pc"?
I am trying Linux Mint, out of curiosity I used the encrypt my disc option during installation.
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
In before some tech-savvy politician bans all cryptography and the world comes crumbling
 
Magisch
Magisch
@JohnDvorak some shit decided to try that here
the idea lasted for roughly a day before some experts presumably sat him down and told him what he was about to try and get passed
 
Derpy
Derpy
I mean, in order to actually run at runtime the files are still uncripted, so any malware can grab them just fine.
 
Magisch
Magisch
banning math is pointless anyways
you can't ban a train of thought that just got actualized
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
now imagine Trump tried that
 
Magisch
Magisch
4:03 PM
Most developers worth their salt could implement their own crypto if forced to it
The common algos are well known. It's doable to implement your own bcrypt if you have to
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
which would put them in jail
 
Magisch
Magisch
In the end that'd just mean your enemies have crypto and you don't
 
Derpy
Derpy
@Magisch only means that the mad guy wasn't powerful enough. Didn't UK just passed a law that can allow "internal security agency" to force request encryption key to any entity?
 
Magisch
Magisch
criminals aren't gonna stop using it just because it's against the law
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Derpy helps with unauthorised access
and makes the barrier of entry higher
 
Magisch
Magisch
4:04 PM
@Derpy Hm? How would they enforce that? "I demand your encryption key at once, russian hacker" "no"
and then?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Magisch a wrench.
 
Magisch
Magisch
Want to sanction math itself with a court order?
 
Derpy
Derpy
@JourneymanGeek yes, or to put your "patches" into Canonical, as the guys on ask ubuntu were discussing
 
Magisch
Magisch
I find this authoritarian notion disgusting and ridiculous
You can't ban an idea
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
Cheap quantum machines will be Fun for the world of cryptography, too
 
HTTP
HTTP
4:06 PM
let's ban free speech...
since now, it'll cost SE rep per character...
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
@HTTP that's already done
 
Magisch
Magisch
truly free speech isn't a good idea anyways
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
"inciting hate speech"
 
Magisch
Magisch
Or do you really want people to go around doing things like yelling fire in a movie theathre?
hate speech is a definition problem
 
Derpy
Derpy
@Magisch and also, why do you assume that an evil government purpose would be to control criminals? You only control honest people. Those are the ones who bends to your "laws". The others you kill.
 
HTTP
HTTP
4:07 PM
you're such a Psycho-Pass
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Derpy mhm, and the more draconian you become the higher the chance that one day it's revolution time and then it's off with your head
 
Derpy
Derpy
By which I obviouly don't mean that the UK gov is evil, only that you should not assume that any hidden agenda is just to control bad people.
 
Magisch
Magisch
the social contract only works because a large majority abides it
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
maybe they'll let you live, and just cut you off from internet
 
HTTP
HTTP
uhh... okay... very summarized...
 
Anonymous
4:09 PM
@Derpy I shouldn't need to say this, but the different between "criminal" and "honest people" is hardly binary and is clearly influenced by things like convenience and consequences.
 
Anonymous
Incentives drive behaviour more than ideals.
 
Derpy
Derpy
@HTTP Since you mentioned it... are you sure that we are yet far away from that? IMHO we only miss the regulator guns.
 
Magisch
Magisch
The reason I stopped committing crimes (pirating songs, for one) is because it's very convenient to buy them now
 
HTTP
HTTP
@Derpy That's what I believe too...
 
Anonymous
You're worried about malware stealing people's photos?
 
Magisch
Magisch
4:11 PM
And there are subscriptions available that make it really easy
 
Anonymous
Is there any reason these photographers would be targeted? If not, that seems like a baseless concern.
 
Magisch
Magisch
Who wants to steal large uncompressed natural photography files
 
Anonymous
No broad attack, like most malware, has low-value IP theft as a goal.
 
Magisch
Magisch
I mean maybe I'm unaware but that seems like a very inefficient use of your time if you're a malware operator
 
Anonymous
The correct advice is "do nothing because the zero risk is not worth any cost to mitigate".
 
HTTP
HTTP
4:13 PM
the only winning move...
 
Anonymous
is the set of all possible moves.
 
Derpy
Derpy
and yet I still cannot drive off the felling that this is like refusing vaccine because you will never go close to someone infected by chickenpox
 
HTTP
HTTP
... and GMO?
 
Ano
Ano
The suggested target is tagged status-bydesign
@Catija Would this be NAA? I think so, but I'm on the fence.
 
Anonymous
4:50 PM
@Derpy A better metaphor would be refusing to wear a suit of armour because you don't expect to get in a sword fight in 2018.
 
Anonymous
Sure, there are some people for which that's not true.
 
Anonymous
but they already probably know that.
 
Anonymous
The parallel to antivaxinationism is very poor.
 
Catija
Catija
5:14 PM
@Ano I have 30 flags on IPS that haven't been handled... If you think something's flag worthy, flag it and we'll deal with it... but NAA doesn't come to mods first, it goes to the community.
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija I flagged it as NAA since I posted the message. I didn't want a declined flag, but then I realized that if it's going to the community it will be disputed, not declined, if users decide to keep it.
 
Feeds
Feeds
 
user315433
5:53 PM
@Feeds At the current rate, I'll finish watching TNG by the time The Hovering Ones arrive.
 
user315433
What's in the gap between 2161 and 2360?
 
user315433
@Feeds This is comic 1962, one of the last baby boomers.
 
user315433
-1
A: Who put forward, prayed, and drew lots in order to choose the twelfth apostle?

PhD Sadrija Sam BeljuliThey were the 120 disciples not the Apostles because the Apostles only gathered once during the 12 secret nights where Jesus And Mary were called by Archangel Erzekhel PhD. Sam Beljuli

 
user315433
"Archangel Erzekhel PhD" is an impressive title
 
Catija
Catija
6:57 PM
@FTP Eh... it's a signature. Removed in an edit.
 
Ano
Ano
7:41 PM
@Catija Is my R/A flag here correct? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11318/…
Also, are the current suggested edits on MSE only tag wiki edits?
@Ano Never mind, retracted it.
 
 
1 hour later…
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
8:50 PM
Signals his intent to be happy.
I usually leave outdated answers as is. After all, they were useful at some point in time. And it's not the author's fault that somebody else has the answer pinned up. I wonder why SO doesn't fix this though. Could at least allow the author to unpin his/her own answer. — VasyaNovikov Jan 31 at 18:55
 
MetaEd
MetaEd
@Catija I'm not seeing the edit, looks like it is waiting for editreview?
 
Catija
Catija
@MetaEd Yeah. I have no rep on BH.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
@AaronHall that's a really dumb sentiment IMHO...
Nice, I replied to myself and got a notification...
 
Anonymous
It's Stack's fault for pinning accepted answers. The system shouldn't do that, except as a tiebreaker.
 
Anonymous
This case, where the accepted answerer is even here to potentially edit, is less common than crap being pinned forever by answerers and askers who are both long gone.
 
Anonymous
8:59 PM
I endorse editing accepted answers in cases like this, as you suggest, but it's an unfortunate workaround.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
One could argue that's a good time for a fresh (and self-answered) question.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
@JeremyBanks On the one hand, pinning should be limited, on the other hand, sometimes the asker is around and actually accepts a brand-new excellent new answer.
That happened for my top 2 answers on Stack Overflow and my top answer on Superuser.
 
Catija
Catija
@JonEricson VTC as dupe.
:P
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
As long as it's in the direction old to new, that's perfect.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
@JonEricson make the new one the dupe target? Then I'd get accused of self-dealing, probably...
 
Travis J
Travis J
9:02 PM
@JonEricson - Any thoughts on this?
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
but we should probably do that for Python's enum Q&A...
 
Catija
Catija
OK, is there an explanation somewhere on MSE about when users with under 1 rep can post on a child meta?
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
In spite of being closed as a dupe, my self-Q&A gets more views than the original, and the Answer gets much more upvotes. The Q still attracts down-votes for some reason...
 
Catija
Catija
I know that there are exceptions... but I have a user who wrote an answer, it was deleted, and they can't ask a question about it on meta, even with a link.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
@TravisJ Interesting. I have just about zero knowledge of this. I assume it's a recentish change on our side?
 
Travis J
Travis J
9:05 PM
It was recent on your side, yes, but then even more recent was that when the rich/structured data display is used in google results, they omit any other results.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
Is the screenshot what you are talking about? I do see a "more results" link.
 
Travis J
Travis J
That one does show some related posts, there are 3 versions. Version 1: the question with a side sliding answer set and no other pots, Version 2: the question with an abstract and a list of questions (as shown in your image), Version 3: the question with an abstract and nothing else.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
I'm thinking this is a question for meta.
 
Travis J
Travis J
If you just search for IQueryable you will see version 1
There is only one result shown, of a potential 61,000.
You used to get the top 3-5 results at least.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
I'd probably argue that it's better for a general query like that to point to mostly general information. (I'd be singing a different tune if we still had Docs, however.)
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
9:12 PM
@AaronHall make that my top 3 answers...
 
Travis J
Travis J
Well, maybe more people will notice it in the future. I am now having to manually include stackoverflow in my search terms.
People unfamiliar with the site are going to definitely be more inclined to go elsewhere.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
@TravisJ I've always done that
 
Travis J
Travis J
@AaronHall You are an established user.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
16 mins ago, by Jeremy Banks
It's Stack's fault for pinning accepted answers. The system shouldn't do that, except as a tiebreaker.
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
agreed; let's remove the pin
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
9:15 PM
@JohnDvorak like, just altogether?
 
John Dvorak
John Dvorak
You can keep the checkmark, but let the answer float down
 
user315433
Oops, uploaded a wrong image. One can imagine the result being a lot worse, though.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I'd probably have a lot less rep without the pinning...
 
user315433
 
user315433
Source: magento.stackexchange.com/election (Chrome). Repro?
 
Ano
Ano
9:17 PM
@FTP Reproduced on Edge.
 
user315433
My guess: it's because Qaisar Satti formatted his nomination as a code block.
 
user315433
Not getting my vote.
 
Catija
Catija
Converting tables to divs is hard.
 
user315433
Is it the same with other elections?
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
@JohnDvorak When my answers go from unpinned to pinned, I start getting a lot more upvotes...
 
user315433
9:19 PM
No, for example cooking.stackexchange.com/election/5?tab=election has correct width of main content area.
 
Catija
Catija
The nominations page doesn't have that problem, though...
Nor the primary.
 
Travis J
Travis J
iRepro
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
@FTP Correct. If you use the developer tools to delete that nomination, the page works. This is why we can't have nice things.
 
Catija
Catija
FR: Ban code blocks in nominations.
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija File it
 
user315433
9:22 PM
My automatic disqualification criteria: (1) Single-digit candidate score; (2) No prior posts on Meta; (3) Formatting text as a codeblock.
 
Travis J
Travis J
What about your tie-breaker disqualification criteria?
 
Catija
Catija
... but do people say, on SO, use code blocks to spice up their nominations?
Is there a legitimate reason for it?
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Catija No.
No.
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija Have they ever won?
 
user315433
Maybe posting a table with some stats. Can be useful.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
9:24 PM
@Catija I edited the nomination. I probably ought to fix it twice (or ask someone else to), but I've got other things to do today.
 
Catija
Catija
I have 105 rep on SO... I can't participate.
 
Ano
Ano
@JonEricson Can current mods edit nominations, or is it restricted to employees/developers?
 
Catija
Catija
@Ano Staff only.
 
Travis J
Travis J
If you put text in a code block then mSO will come for you.
 
Ano
Ano
@FTP File a bug.
A bug is a bug.
 
user315433
9:24 PM
@TravisJ This isn't about ordering? If any of (1), (2), (3) applies, I no longer consider the candidate.
 
user315433
Need some quick rules to sieve through 19 mod candidates.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@FTP I mean, aside from disqualifying them, and considering they passed 1,2, and 3 - what criteria would you use to break a tie-breaker?
@Ano Sometimes a bug is a feature.
 
user315433
That's not algorithmic. How do you decide whom to support in mod elections?
 
Catija
Catija
@FTP You only need three to choose from... I think it'd be easier to start from the top than whacking off the bottom... particularly when they're thinking it's just going to look good on their resumes.
 
Ano
Ano
@TravisJ *That bug is a bug.
 
user315433
9:26 PM
Depends on what they write in nominations, on Meta. How they vote and review, etc.
 
user315433
A problem with Magento is that some very active users have impressive stats but no clue about moderating content.
 
Travis J
Travis J
"How they vote"?
 
Catija
Catija
@TravisJ Do they ever downvote...
 
user315433
This may apply to some of their current moderators as well.
 
user315433
Feb 26 at 22:00, by FTP
1576 reviews, 59 downvotes
2961 reviews, 23 downvotes
2347 reviews, 4 downvotes
2548 reviews, 30 downvotes
3842 reviews, 4 downvotes
 
Ano
Ano
9:28 PM
@TravisJ Close vote, delete vote, review, etc.
 
user315433
Can't see close and delete vote counts. :(
 
Travis J
Travis J
^
 
Ano
Ano
@FTP We once had a 20k+ rep user on SO acting very rudely after others merely admonished him for violating a rather fundamental policy
@FTP SEDE?
 
Anonymous
Evaluating Options for Amazon’s HQ2 Using Stack Overflow Data
Julia Silge on February 28, 2018

Amazon is a technology behemoth, employing half a million people globally and hiring nearly 130,000 people in 2017. Amazon has been headquartered in Seattle since its early days in the 1990s, but in September 2017, the company announced a search for a secondary headquarters elsewhere in North America. Over 200 cities entered bids to be considered, and last month, Amazon announced a list of 20 finalists. What goes into this kind of choice? Amazon says it wants a city with more than one million residents, access to an airport, and decent commutes. Here at Stack Overflow, we can offer a different view on the question. …

 
user315433
Not there either. Votes are not linked to users casting them
 
Catija
Catija
9:29 PM
@FTP You can see their badge progress for that queue, right? I mean, it's even part of the candidate score...
 
Anonymous
This blog post is bad... because it implies that there could be any valid choice but Toronto. :-D
 
Catija
Catija
@JeremyBanks What? I thought one of the metrics specifically said that the non-US options were stronger than the US?
 
Anonymous
The analysis is simple: notInAmerica("toronto") == 1.0. notInAmerica(any other) == 0.0. Therefore Toronto is infinitely better on the only metric that matters.
 
Catija
Catija
> If Amazon wants to choose a city with proportionally more mobile developers, Los Angeles, New York, and Toronto would be the best choices.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@FTP It annoys me that there is an assumption that pile on voting in the review queue leads to good moderator qualities.
 
user315433
9:31 PM
If they hire remote workers, does it matter where the HQ is?
 
Anonymous
The entire HQ2 "contest" is a charade to extract concessions from the Toronto government, since Bezos has known from the beginning that he wants a non-US alternative in case things go politically bad.
 
Catija
Catija
Oh, wait... it says outside North America.
 
user315433
Also, aren't we supposed to hate Amazon for treating workers badly?
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
@Catija Not sure about that. Traffic can be pretty bad here in Southern California. ;-)
 
Anonymous
@Catija Mobile is probably the area Amazon cares the least about, so i can't use that argument for my city.
 
Catija
Catija
9:32 PM
@JonEricson That's the point... working while in traffic is the definition there of "mobile developers".
 
user315433
I tried coding on a Greyhound bus (4-5 hour rides twice a week), can't recommend it.
 
Catija
Catija
@JeremyBanks If that's the case, why would they even mention it? That's odd.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
Can you be mobile if you can't move?
 
Catija
Catija
But you're "on the move"... actually moving is irrelevant.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
My default criteria in who I vote for for moderators, in general, is candidate score (prefer 40/40) and rep score (higher is better). Nomination posts and my personal experience with or knowledge of the individual can theoretically overrule that default though.
 
Anonymous
9:34 PM
@Catija I don't think Amazon ever mentioned that, only Julia's analysis did, because they need to find some way to pidgeonhole this topic into the data they actually have.
 
Catija
Catija
@JeremyBanks I think that the entire concept of taking the development community of a city with such varied corporate headquarters as Seattle... and trying to extrapolate what part of that is actually relevant to Amazon... eh.
 
Anonymous
Fortunately, the Toronto/Ontario government knows Amazon wants us, and is standing strong against this feeble trickery.
 
Anonymous
Silicon Valley 2.0 here we come!
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Amazon reached out to my meetup group, but I know I wasn't enthused to talk to them based on their reputation... can't speak for the other organizers, but I was the only one to respond to them too, AFAIK...
 
Anonymous
To be clear, I have zero interest in working for them.
 
Anonymous
9:36 PM
I have massive interest in them being a member of the local job market, to drive up prices and attract more talent to the city.
 
Catija
Catija
And spit out better, if slightly chewed devs for the rest of the ecosystem?
 
Anonymous
Sure.
 
Anonymous
Google will be building a big office in the city as part of Sidewalk Toronto. With Amazon growing in town, Microsoft may feel the pressure to move in from the suburbs to the core.
 
Anonymous
and before long you've got a great hub going in the city that brought you modern deep learning.
 
user315433
@Catija It wasn't easy to find three I'd want to support. Final list: sv3n, Murtuza Zabuawala, Amit Bera.
 
Catija
Catija
9:42 PM
@FTP Because of his hat prowess?
 
user315433
Yeah, the nominations are not exactly inspiring.
 
user315433
Bera as #3 because I expect him to win anyway, so putting my vote where it is more likely to make a difference.
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah, when there's a clear winner, sometimes I don't even vote for them... assuming that everyone else will... the one downside with that sort of voting is when everyone uses it, though. :P I do wonder... if elections have three spots, perhaps there should be additional votes.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
@Catija That's counterproductive. STV is designed to discourage tactical voting.
Tactical voting
In voting methods, tactical voting (or strategic voting or sophisticated voting or insincere voting) occurs, in elections with more than two candidates, when a voter supports another candidate more strongly than their sincere preference in order to prevent an undesirable outcome. For example, in a simple plurality election, a voter might sometimes gain a "better" outcome by voting for a less preferred but more generally popular candidate. It has been shown by the Gibbard–Satterthwaite theorem that any single-winner ranked voting method which is not dictatorial must be susceptible to tactical voting...
 
Shog9
Shog9
or at least, designed to frustrate tactical voters
...so, how we doing? Y'all frustrated yet?
 
Catija
Catija
9:49 PM
Let me take the ELL original election, for example... J.R. was the only active mod at the time... voting for him was sort of pointless (for me) because everyone was going to vote for him.
 
Shog9
Shog9
that just means your vote counts for your next choice
 
Ano
Ano
@Shog9 You lurker :)
 
Catija
Catija
@Shog9 Except only a fraction of it does...
 
Shog9
Shog9
you have no idea
 
Catija
Catija
There are many STV systems that allow more than three choices... some even just give you the chance to rank all of your choices.
 
user315433
9:56 PM
@JonEricson Even an obvious winner keeps about 50% of the votes they receive. So if I put them as my #1, the effect of my vote where it matters is halved.
 
user315433
Source: participation in many many elections.
 
Catija
Catija
... Not saying that there's anything inherently wrong with the SE system. If we used it for actual elections in the US, I'd be one of the happiest people around... I'm saying that tactical voting is still a consideration even in this system, it's just less so.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
@FTP Sure. But the prisoner's dilemma is a lot less dicey when your vote transfers. I could see swapping the order to gain a marginal advantage, but leaving the favorite off altogether is not so seductive.
The marginal advantage of tactical voting is probably not worth the effort.
 
Catija
Catija
I think that, with a first election, things are slightly different. The status quo tends to be voted in.
(assuming they run)
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
 
Catija
Catija
10:04 PM
Also, the electoral college needs to die.... you know...
Nice explanation, by the way :D I've really loved watching the C.G.P. Grey videos about it, too.
> There would also be people who leave both Rubio and Trump off their ballots resulting in “wasted” votes.
(assuming we were given only three choices.)
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
Still could happen if you gave as many votes as candidates. Meek's method handles this cleanly.
 
Catija
Catija
Well, in the case of there being only one seat, sure... half the votes will be "wasted"... But when you have three slots and 19 candidates, if you go through... 8-10 recalculations, the users who picked three edge case candidates will have their votes "wasted"... so you have to pick at least one high-likelihood candidate in your three... so you have to at least be strategic with your third pick.
If you get five picks, that means you can be strategic with one in five instead of one in three.
 
Ano
Ano
10:26 PM
@Catija National Popular Vote Interstate Compact
@Catija It's a great system for UK elections. Their "first past the post" system for electing MPs is a lot like our popular vote system for electing congressional reps, except they have much more than two parties
 
Catija
Catija
Most of the US already uses "first past the post"... and it's crappy.
 
Ano
Ano
Basically I saw a video about how back in 2015 this system resulted in a Conservative majority in the House of Commons, even though a minority of voters voted Conservative
@Catija You generally don't see the words "first past the post" used here...it's British lingo AFAIK
 
Catija
Catija
I've heard it plenty...
 
Anonymous
The US lingo is "voting" because they couldn't fathom anybody doing things different than them. ;)
 
Catija
Catija
HAHAHAHAHA
 
Ano
Ano
10:32 PM
@Catija I've not heard it used except very recently in relation to the 2017 UK election which resulted in a hung Parliament (in the news)
 
Anonymous
Since we're polling I'll say it's a well-known term in Canada from grade 10 civics and up.
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah... well... I'm older than you, my dad's partner taught high school government... and I'm active in political stuff... so...
 
Travis J
Travis J
Problem with the house of reps in the US is the total count is capped.
2018 != 1911....
 
Ano
Ano
@TravisJ They have to pay large salaries of around $174k to each of those 435 members
Increasing it to a large number would either require more taxpayer money or a cut in Congressional salary
 
Catija
Catija
Pretty sure it's more about the number of seats that can fit in the room than how much you have to pay them.
 
Jon Ericson
Jon Ericson
10:35 PM
If I recall correctly, the real problem is space in the capitol building.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Ano So? Pay them relative to the GDP they represent then.
If California had as many reps per gdp that georgia had then we would have the entire house.
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija Let's see...IIRC the House of Commons had some 600+ seats (sorry if I offend any Brits here)
...650.
 
Catija
Catija
ELU mod flag boxes are overflowing the popup window design. :(
@Ano You do know that's a completely different building, right?
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija File a bug
@Catija I'm not a Brit
 
Catija
Catija
@Ano But you know the building is in the UK and not in DC...
 
Ano
Ano
10:37 PM
@Catija But it looks the same size from the outside... :)
 
Catija
Catija
Please stop pinging me if there aren't any other messages between what I said and what you said.
 
Ano
Ano
Also, I sent that last message before I saw the ones mentioning size.
Okay, I'll stop.
(I actually prefer it when people use replies all the time. Helps me differentiate between messages directed to me as a back-and-forth and generally to the community, in edge cases. I just do it out of habit)
Also sometimes it's not clear what message someone is referring to if another one from the same author gets posted while one is composing a reply
@SmokeDetector tpu-
@SmokeDetector naa-
 
Travis J
Travis J
@JonEricson I was more talking about representation. California contributes a lot to the US economy, and yet we have less populous representation than Georgia by 2.2%, as well as the fact that they have 15% of our GDP.
Oh well, once tech turns Texas blue in the next decade none of this will matter.
 
Catija
Catija
@TravisJ That just seems like a great way to keep poor states poor? If they have less representation because they don't produce anything for the GDP, then the richer states have a louder voice?
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija Also here in Austin the districts are severely gerrymandered, so as to increase Republican representation. One northern district is also stretched to cover Waco.
 
user315433
10:48 PM
Became a popular topic in math circles, devising ways of measuring/detecting gerrymandering based on GIS data.
 
Ano
Ano
@FTP Did they detect the gerrymandering in Pennsylvania? It was recently detected and thwarted.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Catija How would that keep states poor?
 
Ano
Ano
@TravisJ Keep poor states with poor voices
 
Catija
Catija
@TravisJ If they have no voice to get funding for what they need because they have fewer representatives... then yeah...
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Ano Yeah, the whole country had that happen, a parting gift from the great George W.
So because they are poor, they should have a louder voice?
 
Catija
Catija
10:50 PM
No... You're the one who wants state GDP to be involved. I think population is fine.
 
Travis J
Travis J
Relative to their pay.
 
user315433
> Worked! Thank you kindly.
 
user315433
And no acceptance. :/
 
user315433
There should be an automatic detector for thank-you comments...
 
Travis J
Travis J
If balancing representatives is a budget issue, then state GDP should most certainly be an issue.
 
Ano
Ano
10:53 PM
@FTP @author Please don't add "thank you" as a comment. You can accept this answer if you found it useful, by clicking the checkmark.
 
user315433
That makes it two useless comments. And the OP is gone.
 
Travis J
Travis J
Public service shouldn't be a get rich quick scheme.
 
Catija
Catija
You haven't even shown that it is a problem?
 
Travis J
Travis J
That was when I first mentioned GDP, I only included it is as a side note with the population analysis as it seemed relevant to the conversation.
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija What do you think of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact?
 
Catija
Catija
10:55 PM
Reapportionment Act of 1929
The Reapportionment Act of 1929 (ch. 28, 46 Stat. 21, 2 U.S.C. § 2a, enacted June 18, 1929) was a combined census and reapportionment bill passed by the United States Congress that established a permanent method for apportioning a constant 435 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives according to each census. The bill neither repealed nor restated the requirements of the previous apportionment acts that districts be contiguous, compact, and equally populated. It was not clear whether these requirements were still in effect until in 1932 the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Wood v....
> Due to increased immigration and a large rural-to-urban shift in population from 1910 to 1920, the new Republican Congress refused to reapportion the House of Representatives with the traditional contiguous, single-member districts stipulations because such a reapportionment would have redistricted many House members out of their districts.
A reapportionment in 1921 in the traditional fashion would have increased the size of the House to 483 seats, but many members would have lost their seats due to the population shifts, and the House chamber did not have adequate seats for 483 members.
So, a bunch of representatives would have lost their seats, so they fixed it at that many seats and there were literally not enough chairs to seat 483 people.
 
Travis J
Travis J
That is contradictory then, and there should absolutely be more members.
There are currently only 435.
 
Catija
Catija
Contradictory of what?
No one's argued that there shouldn't be more people... but if they used the same apportionment as they did way long ago, there'd be... thousands.
 
Travis J
Travis J
To the claim there are not enough seats for more representatives.
So, from a physical seats perspective, we are covered.
 
Ano
Ano
@Catija Can't congressional reps join in remotely via videoconferencing now?
 
Catija
Catija
There are not more than that number of chairs and tables for actual representatives in the room.
 
Travis J
Travis J
11:01 PM
I just want it to be fair though, because I feel like it currently is not. Perhaps that means more, or perhaps that just means a better balance.
 
Catija
Catija
They have to base it on the census data... and they can't divide people in half.
 
Ano
Ano
Isn't the table and chair numbers in the room irrelevant if reps can join in meetings via videoconferencing?
 
Catija
Catija
Some states have one and they only get one regardless of their population because they have so few people... so they get slightly lower people to representative numbers...
But (other than it being close to the end of the decade), I don't think the percentages are hugely horrible...
They may decide to add more eventually... maybe they add a state and they decide that, rather than dividing up the existing representatives between 51 states, they create new seats based on the population of that new state...
Who knows... but with that act in place, I don't think anything's going to change.
 
Ano
Ano
We had new states added since the act was passed, and it still remained at 435.
 
Magisch
Magisch
I like how it's done in my country, where it's purely based on population %
so if 10% of the population voted for a party, they get 10% of the seats
That way, everyone's vote counts equally
 
Ano
Ano
11:13 PM
How is @Pseudohuman's avatar showing up here, even though it's a low-rep user? Do users with explicit write access get their avatar shown? If so, why is this not mentioned in the FAQ?
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah... because coalition governments are lots of fun ;)
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Catija better then a two party system
by far
Also better then making a rural voter's vote count more then a city voter's
 
Catija
Catija
Our districts are generally the same population, so I don't think that's an issue.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Catija - So, I analyzed the percents of all the states based on the 2010 consensus, it does seem they are fairly balanced by population. Or at least, perhaps as balanced as they could get.
 
Catija
Catija
@TravisJ Yep :D That's about what I figured... It will be really interesting to see what the 2020 census reveals... particularly since they're not really funding it at this point, so it's a bit scary.
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:20 PM
@Catija I mean more like the facts that rural states with like no people at all even have a say
Some states should count for less then low pop districts of LA
Because they're like 99% empty
Or was that the senate thing?
 
Catija
Catija
That's the senate.
 
Magisch
Magisch
hrm.
 
Catija
Catija
Two senators per state. Always. Representatives are population-based. They're not perfect, but they're not horrible, either. In 2010 Wyoming had only 568,300/representative (single representative) and Montana had 994,416/representative (single representative). The overall average was 710,767/representative.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Catija The largest population change by ratio compared to the previous rate used would be Montana, and only at 2.7%. I don't think that there will be any changes to the number of reps per state, and if there were, it would probably be an additional one for Montana.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Catija See I don't understand that. That means as far as the senate is concerned, rural voters have vastly more power then city voters
 
Catija
Catija
11:25 PM
@TravisJ Have they started forecasting that? I have a feeling Texas might pick one up... We've had three of the fastest-growing cities for several years now.
 
Magisch
Magisch
If 1% of the population live in very rural areas, they should have exactly 1% of the say
 
Catija
Catija
@Magisch It's because the people who started the country thought of us as separate "countries"... state means country... so each state had to have somewhere that they had equal power it's all about balance.
 
Travis J
Travis J
@Catija That was based on my analysis. Texas may have grown, but so did other states. The rate of growth with respect to the ration of population to representative in Texas was 1.9%, and it is relatively in the middle of the set.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Catija Might be time for a rational consolidation by now
 
Travis J
Travis J
To be honest, I don't particularly mind the two senators per state.
 
Magisch
Magisch
11:27 PM
No single voter should have any more say then any other single voter ... in any assembly
 
Catija
Catija
@TravisJ I don't, either... but as an American, that's how I grew up... so meh.
Eh, Magisch, you're assuming that they even listen to the voters.
 
Travis J
Travis J
The House representation feels off though, something certainly seems broken in the way the House represents the population. If it is not purely a population or totals issue, maybe it is purely a districting issue.
 
Magisch
Magisch
@Catija They should, they're representing them
 
Catija
Catija
 
Magisch
Magisch
Actually, they should listen to nobody but the voters
 
Catija
Catija
11:29 PM
@TravisJ That's where the gerrymandering comes in.
@Magisch That'd require changes to campaign finance and when you're allowed to campaign. The senators spend so much time raising money for their elections, they really don't get to spend much time with the actual constituents... only with the people who have money.
Ah, this one's from December 2017: dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/21/1726412/…
 
Ano
Ano
11:45 PM
@Shog9 Can you please explain meta.stackexchange.com/questions/290420/…?
 
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