Tavern on the Meta

99% of the chance the building project will start this year, although paper work can take months if you want better design ... also some delay due to neighbour's illegal excavation situation ...

HTTP

2:42 AM

Uhh... breaking news: quantum "OP cannot edit their own post because too minor"?

HTTP

4:19 AM

@FTP just curious, and certainly you're entitled not to answer this, but: is Meta Math.SE a bit sour recently?

user202362

have you considered changing your name to scp?

user202362

it's like FTP but more secure

HTTP

@TelautonomousKitty never heard of it before (other than different SCP)... good idea, but I need 20+ days :/

Ano

Or you could change your name to Gopher next

user315433

4:39 AM

Meta math was sour, bitter, salty, etc since 2010.

user315433

I don't remember it ever being a happy place.

user315433

The only winning move is not to care.

user315433

Although, the moderatorship of Daniel Fischer and quid helped to cool things down.

SmokeDetector

5:29 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Second conditional in future by Aarya on ell.SE

Feeds

6:01 AM

In-universe, Bart Simpson and Harry Potter were the same age in 1990. Bart is perpetually 10 years old because of a spell put on his town by someone trying to keep him from getting his Hogwarts letter.

user202362

6:18 AM

I wonder whether sour, bitter people attract each other

SmokeDetector

6:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Do these pictures depict the same man after two separate crises? by izraul on skeptics.SE

user315433

6:47 AM

@Feeds Harry Potter is Bart Simpson's secret identity.

Ano

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/307289/…

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected, blacklisted user: Do these pictures depict the same man after two separate crises? by izraul on skeptics.SE

SmokeDetector

7:19 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Stack Alert [Mozilla Firefox Add-on\] - Keep tabs on your inbox without needing to have a Stack Exchange site open. by kelli stark on stackapps.com

SmokeDetector

7:34 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: how can I recover my forgotten gmail password in android? by James Luther on superuser.com

Nog Shine

@MarcGravell Can I use this message of yours as an answer for this bug report? If that is the reason for such behaviour..

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Email in answer: To generate private key by ZubyFrank on bitcoin.SE

Ano

7:52 AM

cv-pls unclear: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/307290/app-crash-some-times

@Ano Deleted

SmokeDetector

8:25 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Is there a way to copy with verification or just verify copied data by Rurikov on superuser.com

Ano

@SmokeDetector tpu-

Derpy

@TimPost Bingo, that was the one. Thanks, Tim.

rene

9:05 AM

> We apologize for any inconvenience, but an unexpected error occurred while you were browsing our site. It’s not you, it’s us. This is our fault. Detailed information about this error has automatically been recorded and we have been notified.

Not even an error page is rendered for me, this url:stackoverflow.com/users/8928024/zf007

that text is just in the body.

5

Q: Systematic "This is our fault." on some links

It's unusual for me. I go to Performance questions about Generating Html Files from database. I tap on harmen's username. I'm directed to https://stackoverflow.com/error?aspxerrorpath=/users/176603/harmen with: We apologize for any inconvenience, but an unexpected error occurred while you w...

Rouge the Bat

yeah, I'm seeing the same

Stack Overflow not wanting to load, comments to working

it said it was down for maintenance for a while, then that error, and then buggy runs

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in body: Why logo is important for any business? by mobile app developer on softwareengineering.SE

the4kman

9:33 AM

It's still very sluggish for me. Edits and comments are also slow to send.

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 since you took the time to delete his question, can you also please reset this user's name? Also, he posted several comments ranting about how bad MSE is, in totally unrelated posts. Dunno if this justifies suspension, your call. Thanks!

@the4kman slow to send?? What do you mean?

Rouge the Bat

@ShadowWizard haven't you seen the stuff going on on SO?

Comments are slow to send, some times doesn't load, the site some times gives "This is our fault" and the page doesn't load

Shadow Wizard

@RougetheBat nope. SO works fine for me. What's going on?

Rouge the Bat

TL;DR: someone pushed a broken build

Shadow Wizard

Probably some DNS issue.

Rouge the Bat

9:35 AM

Nope

Shadow Wizard

@RougetheBat no, this would affect everyone.

Rouge the Bat

17

Q: Systematic "This is our fault." on some links

It's unusual for me. I go to Performance questions about Generating Html Files from database. I tap on harmen's username. I'm directed to https://stackoverflow.com/error?aspxerrorpath=/users/176603/harmen with: We apologize for any inconvenience, but an unexpected error occurred while you w...

bug error-message broken-link performance

It is

well, at least a large majority

and globally from the looks of things

Shadow Wizard

no it's not.

Rouge the Bat

it isn't link specific

Shadow Wizard

So it's not bug in the code.

Rouge the Bat

9:37 AM

See my comment

I just tried loading the main site and it failed

try again and it works

try something else and there's a chance that breaks

Shadow Wizard

No argue something is borked, but looks like it's not code, but DNS/hardware/etc

@RougetheBat so maybe cache is borked

Rouge the Bat

Nope

cache and cookies purged from the system, still doesn't work

doesn't work on mobile, desktop, this wifi, mobile data

Shadow Wizard

@RougetheBat server cache, not local cache. You can't control it.

Only SE devs can.

Rouge the Bat

oh

Shadow Wizard

On SE everything is cached, with REDIS.

Rouge the Bat

9:39 AM

still though, it wouldn't explain why some connection attempts fail

speaking of the devil... the CV dialog doesn't load

"An error has occurred, please try again"

and refreshing the page doesn't load it

the4kman

As I predicted. Off-topic questions on SO Meta rise after the doom. meta.stackoverflow.com/q/363736/3151675

Journeyman Geek

The Doom?

Rouge the Bat

@JourneymanGeek Stack Overflow is borked, question asking doesn't work as it should so people ask their questions on meta because it partially works

AAAND [status-repro] on SU too

the4kman

@RougetheBat ...and worst of all, it doesn't even display a polyglot when it's broken.

Rouge the Bat

yep

the4kman

9:44 AM

(I know 500 sites never displayed one, but shhh)

Rouge the Bat

And yesterday it was facebook, today it's SO. Facebook and SO are more similar than you'd think :P

the4kman

BTW I'll have my first remote Toptal interview, wish me luck. Any good advice?

rene

@the4kman Just panic and you'll be fine ...

3

the4kman

@rene kind-of-related xkcd

2

Rouge the Bat

lol

rene

9:56 AM

I'm losing points here, please fix this!

Rouge the Bat

Let's just wake Jon Skeet. He'll fix it

the4kman

@rene It's like a mini 1929.

rene

:D

Rouge the Bat

status-blame-the-devs

rene

devs-blames-sysdmins

Rouge the Bat

10:06 AM

sysadmins-blame-users

rene

sysadmins-blames- ..... nobody left to blame

Rouge the Bat

no, there's always someone to blame

users blame devs, devs blame sysadmins, sysadmins blame users

rene

users blame .... everything

the4kman

Updated Wheel of Blame

3

Rouge the Bat

Perfect!

the4kman

10:18 AM

https://writing.stackexchange.com/q/33613/29240
I can barely restrain myself from writing an answer containing "Like this." and nothing else

Ano

When in doubt, I always blame Shadow

the4kman

@Ano I'd love to have a job where I create customized wheels of blame all day.

Ano

@the4kman My request to bring back the 404 polyglot is getting close to +200

Journeyman Geek

@RougetheBat ah. meh? ;p

Derpy

10:35 AM

@Ano and yet the "won't change back" power level is over 9000.

Ano

@Derpy No, it's not status-declined yet

Derpy

no, it is even better : it is status-ignored

Ano

10:48 AM

Still waiting for Shadow to find the last Chaos Emerald

Rouge the Bat

Shadow has left the chaos emeralds behind. It's all about the elements of harmony now! :P

Ano

@RougetheBat No, they are the elements of harmony. I use them to rid the curse at the end of the original 1991 game.

SNAFU

We are tracking down the stability issues on Stack Overflow, please bear with us s we figure out what's stalling out. I have removed the currently angry servers from traffic pools while we dig.

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on February 23, 2018 at 10:45 AM

Derpy

@Ano he is too busy trying to understand what is the canonical level progression in "Shadow the Hedgehog". Or asking himself how he could actually decide to collaborate with GUN. Or any of its other 28758903046675 character inconsistencies :P

HTTP

@SNAFU looks like the next April Fool's idea: Angry Server: Traffic Pools Overflow.

Ano

10:54 AM

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/307297/toxic-links-slove

cv-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/307296/…

Derpy

@HTTP Rovio, the ones that managed to have malwertising inside their own games... I haven't touched any of their apps with a 6-8 meter pole since.

Rouge the Bat

@Ano chaos emeralds are not the elements. Chaos emeralds sound right up Discord's alley though :D

the4kman

@Derpy Interesting. Can you link an article about this?

Ano

@Rouge In case you didn't understand what I'm getting at, Shadow just needs one more Chaos Emerald before he can use Chaos Control on any question

Rouge the Bat

@SNAFU wouldn't it be ironic if StackOverflow's problems is caused by a StackOverflowException? XD

@Ano in english? :D

the4kman

10:59 AM

@RougetheBat Nomen est omen

Ano

@RougetheBat Shadow Wizard needs the gold badge for bug before he can close any MSE question as a duplicate (that he hasn't closed before or edited the tags of)

Rouge the Bat

Nomen ate Omen?! I didn't know Nomen was a cannibal!

@Ano oh, cool

Ano

@Rouge The reason I made that statement a bit earlier is because I spotted a blatant dupe that was tagged bug, so I couldn't chaos-emerald-pls anyone here

HTTP

@RougetheBat StackOverflow at renewing cache. Seems plausible.

Journeyman Geek

bleh

cache the cache.

then cache the cache cache.

Rouge the Bat

11:02 AM

Burn the cache into the pits from whence it came!!

Derpy

@the4kman there are multiple report of the fake Angry Birds download with bundled trojan viruses, but I can't find anything about the malvertising case. What I can tell you is that it happened to a friend of mine. I personally checked that the app was the original one, I also saw the bad advertisement being showed to the user with my eyes. My friend was auto-magically subscribed to one of that 5$/weeks "news/meteo/spam" message services after viewing the ads.

HTTP

deja vu about ForgedSource...

2

the4kman

@Derpy Wow, interesting, to say the least.

Derpy

I don't know if he "clicked" on the ads (or to be more precise: if the app decided to think that he clicked due to input lag and/or disingenuous behavior), all I know is that he lost 5€, immediately unsubscribed and luckily hadn't any other issues. That said, he also contacted customer support and never got a reply.

As a final notice... I somehow "despise" Gameloft and their inflated prices but I have to admit that every ads I ever saw in their games was about others games their produced (with one single exception - some mayor telephone company ads). Angry Birds on the opposite from what I saw was filled with random ads from providers that probably were found laying near the trash cans outside Rovio headquarters.

(Disclaimer: this happened on the Android app about 1-2 years ago. May have been an isolated case and things may be different now. I obviously never bothered checking again. Now my friend plays Pokémon Shuffle and he is pretty happy with Nintendo's ads free policy...)

Journeyman Geek

11:20 AM

ow

I never had issues with angry birds. Other than getting bored by it

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Calculation of magnetic field of Earth by difrex solution on physics.SE

HTTP

You don't get angry with Angry Bird, but you do with Flappy Bird.

Derpy

@JourneymanGeek I think that ads in Angry Birds are geo-targeted. So, if you live in a big state probably the ads are better because they have more honest providers to chose from. If you are in a small state with fever paying providers choices... be ready to get some bad spam.

Journeyman Geek

ah

singapore ;p

so kinda biggish?

HTTP

A country that is smaller than a city >_<

the4kman

11:24 AM

@Derpy I don't think they have a lack of providers. Ad companies should have stricter policies.

Journeyman Geek

hah

should have...

Derpy

^ this one. "Should" is the magic word. Then you have countries where you have to manually request that your phone company disables "added value services" on your line so that ads can't try to auto subscribe you.

Journeyman Geek

11:48 AM

ugh

HTTP

ugh

@Derpy come to think of it, I think that's my country...

or worse, you can't request them not to bug you.... but they're free to auto-subscribe mine

Derpy

once again, that little clip from Adventure Time with Jake explaining how laws came into existence seems very fitting.

Derpy

12:10 PM

the user that posted this now deleted post on SO now has reposted the same question here

^ any 10k+ users wanting to step in? I can't do much more than flagging as unclear again

the4kman

@Derpy Flagged it for the mods.

Derpy

@the4kman custom flag you mean?

yep, that could be one option

Ano

@Derpy I also left a comment on that post

the4kman

12:30 PM

@Derpy yup

Derpy

And deleted once again. Waiting for Repost Zone - Act 3.

SmokeDetector

12:44 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, username similar to website in answer: Simple search result browser for stackoverflow in kotlin by djlamberto on stackapps.com

Derpy

1:07 PM

I am pretty divided on posting a reply to a question on SO. On one side, I think I may have a fitting response. On the other....

> please post more code i am begginer for development(please post html and controllers code also)

Journeyman Geek

there's a perfectly good reply to that...

its called a downvote ;p

Ano

@Derpy Not deleted, I think you're clicking on the wrong link. (I made the same mistake; that's the removed message above.)

@JourneymanGeek And don't forget a close vote / RC flag

Journeyman Geek

@Ano not enough rep ;p

Ano

@JourneymanGeek "RC flag"

Journeyman Geek

and I don't really feel like flagging

Ano

1:18 PM

@JourneymanGeek RC flagging is not the same thing as mod-flagging. It just pushes it into CV queue. Same as a close vote, but without an actual vote. Mods are not pinged.

"Recommend closure flag" = "RC flag"

Journeyman Geek

@Ano I do believe I've made my feelings on "flagging" or "voting by proxy" pretty clear.

After aboooout 8 years on the network, I vaguely think I know the appropriate actions to take.

Ano

@JourneymanGeek But it's not a vote. If it's already in the queue, all it does is score you a helpful flag if someone else votes to close it later.

It doesn't do anything else in that case

Journeyman Geek

@Ano by which I mean, I really don't need to be told how to metamoderate

Ano

@JourneymanGeek Alright

Journeyman Geek

see, I made a flippant comment, rather than a specific piece of advice...

Ano

1:21 PM

@JourneymanGeek Meaning?

Journeyman Geek

Well, that said comment about downvotes do not reflect an endorsement of downvoting, or an actual downvote

Ano

IMO you should always vote or flag on the post's own merits, even though someone raises it up directly to you.

HTTP

1:38 PM

Gordon Freeman on Final Fantasy 15. Ha ha ha.

SmokeDetector

1:52 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: MetaMask, what is it and how to use it by PabloB0351 on ethereum.SE

user202362

Might as well write a novel about Princess peach fell in love with Bowser and the two live ever happily after ...

HTTP

@TelautonomousKitty I believe there are many already...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: How can I get involved in the ethereum community? by PabloB0351 on ethereum.SE

Derpy

@TelautonomousKitty To be fair, she tried to leave both of them on the moon.

HTTP

meow.

user202362

2:02 PM

I mean the whole peach & bowser situation is a lot like beauty and beast

Derpy

and I repeat, she was the one that tried to leave Bowser and Mario to live happily together on the moon.

HTTP

Why not give Luigi a chance?

Optimus Prime

I need the hard disk immediately. and gati is checking my patience

more than 2 days without any activity update

Derpy

@HTTP because he is more commonly paired with Daisy.

SmokeDetector

2:21 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Tkinter on Ubuntu 14.04 seems not to work by angelina subbs on askubuntu.com

Derpy

2:38 PM

oh, nice. Once again, due to some Huawei related news, some discussion started in the office about smarthpones and antivirus bans. A co-worker suggested me to check wikipedia page about Mr. McAfee..

Nice, never knew about that story before.

rene

I was still alive. as if we could expect a different outcome...

HTTP

That is a triumph?

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy maaaaan

THat's quite a tale

Derpy

@JourneymanGeek I don't want to restart the old discussion, but it is fun to think that I never eared about that before but I keep reading that Eugene was in espionage school almost every week.

I mean, the company received requests to disassociate from him and that story didn't go viral too?

Journeyman Geek

@Derpy erm, it kinda did?

I probably read it on /.

Derpy

2:59 PM

All I know is that no one ever suggested me to avoid McAfee. Or at least, they never give this reason.

Journeyman Geek

oh

intel owns it now...

not sure that makes it any more or less trustworthy tho

Derpy

BTW, I had also found out there are now declassified investigations papers about Huawey alleged espionage ties dating back to 2011. And yep, as far as they say, they give no real proof other than "they don't want to collaborate on our investigations".

And 7 year after we have yet nothing concrete. They really want to make us mad with paranoia.

Well, it seems that this may be a good year to switch to Linux.

Optimus Prime

Justin Trudeau was insulted heavily by us

**by India

And that was a clear warning to him that don't support terrorism in India

Ano

3:18 PM

@ShadowtheHedgehog chaos-emerald-pls meta.stackexchange.com/questions/307301/…

Optimus Prime

And that was a clear warning to him that don't support terrorism in India

Ano

@OptimusPrime Out of curiosity, why the duplicate message?

Derpy

so that the warning is clearer?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Why do not metals gain electrons and non-metals donate electrons? by Your dad on chemistry.SE

Optimus Prime

When I switched to this tab, an error is shown with the message saying the message timed out and along with retry cancel button. I didn't noticed that it is already posted

may be a bug

Ano

3:24 PM

@OptimusPrime Probably the message got sent, but you briefly lost your connection before you could receive the "roger" signal from the server, so the client thought it wasn't sent properly. When you clicked "retry", it sent again.

Meta Stack Exchange Sucks, Canada

82 12

discussion support user-accounts down-votes etiquette google policy

Previously "TechLord"

Derpy

I think this is karma striking back for the "We don't need a way to report users profile spam"?

Optimus Prime

Seen now. When I send a message and keep my system in idle, the last message is automatically appended once more, showing it is timed out, and 2 links to retry and cancel

Derpy

probably the scripts waits for a sort of "response" and when you are idle that response is lost?

So the system thinks that the server never replied and shows you the timeout message.

Optimus Prime

In Kerala, yesterday few people killed a tribal person who is mentally not normal

Derpy

another MLP question on SciFi, another reply, another little move towards the my-little-pony-fim tag badge.

SmokeDetector

3:39 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to remove [Deleted Video\] from Liked Videos list? by Cock on webapps.SE

Derpy

3:53 PM

> Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp will host a Mario themed event.
Obviously, it will start on Mar, 10.
Because..
Mar10

HTTP

Also, Mari0

Derpy

@HTTP and for a shocking revelation, please check the list of games they created. You can see it on the left side of the site.

rene

Hey @bluefeet it looks like @Taryn plagiarized your profileimage ... :'(

Taryn

@rene how dare they

rene

disrespectful times ...

HTTP

4:09 PM

searched 'how to report user'

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Non-brute force approach to finding permissible English word anagrams by Maximus on datascience.SE

HTTP

@SmokeDetector to rollback or to... forget it... flagged

Derpy

4:55 PM

the cat is back!

Taryn

@rene shameful, I should report them

rene

Yeah, or knock on their door.

Ano

5:07 PM

There are several Meta sites, the link I sent you is for electronic stack exchange. You will be better off to quit the Meta Stack Exchange and ask all of your questions on the proper Meta. I found this out the hard way. You are not likely to get much help here and your questions will get down-voted. Go to the right meta and your question will likely get answer right away because someone there most likely encountered the same problem. Just use the link in my answer, you will be glad you did. — Meta Stack Exchange Sucks 1 hour ago

Answer just got deleted, glad I inlined that comment here in time

Nog Shine

@Ano You will get downvotes everywhere when you ask stupid questions but they post there because there is no rep associated on per site meta.

Ano

I noticed that many users have trouble keeping up, and end up feeling shut out because we hold all questions to the same quality standards, while other forums tend to cut a lot of slack to newer users. Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few to actually pay attention to how new users feel when we take some sort of action.

While I don't disagree with the downvoting of their posts and our enforcement of our standards, I do share some feelings with this particular user.

Shog9

let's not beat around the bush here. This particular user didn't struggle to keep up. They posted like 5 different variations on the same stupid question and got rude with everyone who bothered to respond.

Ano

@Shog9 What was the "stupid" question?

Ranting about downvotes? Perhaps he would have ranted less if we had just linked to this:

163

Q: How do I participate in Meta and not die trying?

Meta doesn't like me; I can't seem to keep my points. How can I post better and be well-received?

discussion meta faq-proposed

They are a reasonable user, and not a troll, @Shog9:

-1

Q: Feature suggestion: How many minutes from the 40m are left to wait?

For new users, these 40 minutes are the 40 minutes of death. That is an exaggerated nickname, but I adapted it from "BSOD". 40 minutes of hell could also be their name. It would be useful, if the 40-minute-error also indicated the number of remaining minutes. I hope my feature suggestion to be ...

feature-request

HTTP

@Ano I don't know if you haven't known already, but that user was suspended before. Oh, and some of their aggresive questions on MSE have been deleted.

Nog Shine

5:21 PM

@Ano My first question here on meta was heavily downvoted and I tried modifying it even when I got downvotes. It was about an incident I faced on a site I participate. Users thought it was mine and downvoted. But I didn't rant about downvotes like this user did. After I came to know how MSE works, I modified accordingly and I love this site more than the site I first joined and provides more rep.

Ano

@HTTP I flagged that user's posts with requests to suspend them. Many of their posts are linked in my flag history.

Shog9

@Ano there are more than two options.

Ano

@HTTP Even if I was an uninvolved user who didn't load up their profile when they were suspended, the answer to the second question says they were suspended at the time.

@Shog9 What more options are there?

Shog9

@Ano a user who became so frustrated over something they couldn't let go of that they lost all perspective and turned all of their efforts toward futile attempts at laying blame elsewhere?

"Troll" is not a synonym for "someone who posts something unpleasant"

there exist an endless variety of motivations; trolling for responses is just one

Ano

@Shog9 The subsequent downvotes of those rants and their suspension were the right actions to take, I'm not disagreeing with that. But it also created a positive feedback loop with regards to their actions on MSE.

Shog9

5:26 PM

@Ano in this case, yes

Most people break out of that loop on their own. Some need external assistance.

Ano

Perhaps if we would have linked to that first question on their first downvoted post, that positive feedback loop could have been averted.

Shog9

that is unlikely

Go look at /questions/ask on meta. Pay close attention to the right-hand sidebar

Ano

This is similar to why I always leave a canned comment on off-topic posts, in addition to downvoting, RC flagging as off-topic, and posting a cv-pls message here

One user posted their SO question on Meta, and the subsequent (correct) moderation response led them to posting this strange Ripoff Report complaint.

Optimus Prime

@Ano just fyi when you leave comments under posts that already got enough downvotes, the victim may target you

Ano

Perhaps if we had also taken care to advise them that they are posting on the wrong site, this could have been averted.

@OptimusPrime How?

@OptimusPrime I'm very careful in the info I disclose online. I don't have any website links or ways to contact me in my profile.

Optimus Prime

5:31 PM

He can target your internet points.

Ano

@OptimusPrime We have a script for that.

Optimus Prime

One downvote a day, Keep the reversal script away

Ano

@Shog9 Doesn't the reversal script also consider overall votes, and not just daily votes?

Shog9

what?

Ano

@Shog9 The serial voting reversal script.

Shog9

5:33 PM

what about it?

Optimus Prime

I think votes in past 24 hour @Ano

Ano

1 min ago, by Ano

@Shog9 Doesn't the reversal script also consider overall votes, and not just daily votes?

Shog9

I don't know what you're asking, but... I'm not going to reveal the specifics of the voting reversal scripts anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Ano

@Shog9 But don't we reveal some details of some scripts? Such as the fact that questions more than 30 days old when deleted don't count towards Q-bans?

Nog Shine

@OptimusPrime Not even a day, take a gap of one hour.

Shog9

5:36 PM

@Ano that's not even precisely true, but even if it was we don't exactly define what "count" means

Ano

@Shog9 Curious question, part joke: Is there a backup plan in case a disgruntled exiting employee leaks the post ban algorithm (anonymously)? If so, what is it? Change it to something else that has already been drafted?

Optimus Prime

@Ano unlike that, this one can be misused.

HTTP

@Ano lol, that made my day

Shog9

@Ano how would you know it was accurate if they did?

Ano

@OptimusPrime Ah, yes, I understand exactly what you mean. I had a question, but I'm withholding it as it could end up disclosing it by implication.

Shog9

5:38 PM

Or, to put it another way... If I posted full details on the q-ban on meta right now, how would you verify I wasn't just pulling your leg?

Ano

@Shog9 Mods have access to some data that lets them know how close a user is to a ban, and whether or not they are banned. I'm sure that mods could go and check those info with the algorithm and see if it matches up.

HTTP

@HTTP We already have so many about that, like Why does Stack Overflow have so many negative critics? [closed]

Optimus Prime

Found a vulnerability in Facebook. When using a specific payload, the server took ~50 Seconds to respond

Ano

...and publicize their results

Shog9

@Ano so, you'd trust someone else to verify it

Optimus Prime

5:39 PM

@Shog9 You people are excellent in pulling legs [need citation]

Ano

@Shog9 No, I'd trust many other people to verify it. We have a lot of mods.

Optimus Prime

Mods don't have access to it

Shog9

@Ano if that were sufficient to verify the details, then a sufficiently-determined moderator could reverse-engineer it now

Optimus Prime

I mean internally. They can only use the outcome

Shog9

So either,
1. Moderators don't have sufficient access to determine / verify a ban algorithm, or...
2. ...there are no sufficiently-determined moderators

Ano

5:41 PM

@Shog9 A mod could create a whole lot of sock puppets, to see who gets banned and who doesn't. A similar thing was done for comment automatic deletion triggers: some users posted a bunch of test comments and had others flag them to determine the exact triggers for deleting comments with less than three flags.

Adam Lear

2

Shog9

@Ano again, what is stopping anyone from doing that now? You wouldn't even have to be a moderator...

Ano

@Shog9 They'd have to violate the moderator agreement, because they'd be disclosing non-public info, right? But if it gets leaked, it's already public, so there's nothing for them to leak.

Shog9

@Ano that may be an irrelevant distinction in the scenario you outlined...

But more importantly... I feel like we went over this a few weeks back: you're attributing a lot more skill and motivation to folks who get q-banned than typically exists.

Ano

@Shog9 So if I successfully reverse engineer the ban algorithm as a non-mod (not bound by any agreement), and post the (correct) ban algorithm online, what will happen to me

Shog9

5:43 PM

If you're interested in learning more about q-bans, you don't need a rogue employee or bored mod; you could create an account and try to get banned.

Ano

@Shog9 Yeah, to be fair I'm from a time when there were no warnings or rate-limits; one would just jump straight to a ban.

Shog9

@Ano you'd probably get suspended for creating a big ol' pile of banned accounts. But, that'd probably happen even if you didn't post the details.

Optimus Prime

@Shog9 My security bug report (delegated by you) was fixed by @Adam on the same day. Out of curiosity, did SO consider it as security issue?

Shog9

@OptimusPrime is this a roundabout way of asking if you get to be on the hall of fame?

Ano

@Shog9 Say that the only link between the banned accounts and me is my post with the findings, because I used a VPN to sever any known links.

Optimus Prime

5:45 PM

@Shog9 yeah. I asked that directly yesterday and didn't get any response :-(

Shog9

'cause that's up to Adam.

...or, our Yet-To-Be-Hired Security Officer. Honestly not sure how we're planning on doing that going forward. But traditionally, it was up to the dev who handled the request.

Adam Lear

@OptimusPrime I didn't see anything about that

Shog9

@Ano so why should anyone believe you?

Optimus Prime

didn't pinged you. When I asked yesterday, both of you are not here. So I don't want to disturb or distract you from your work

Shog9

that was very considerate, thank you.

Although, not especially productive

Adam Lear

5:48 PM

My personal take is that it was a minor issue. the same day fix had more to do with the fact that I had some time and it was an easy one than with the severity :)

Optimus Prime

Yet-To-Be-Hired Security officer in 6-8 days

HTTP

@OptimusPrime or, it could be you!

Optimus Prime

@HTTP nah. not me.

@AdamLear FMPOV, it's both minor and major issue. Minor because it can't be exploited from your side. It can be exploited only via a third party. Major because if it's exploited, it will prevent the victim forever. Since the attacker got the password, changing the email will lock the victim

HTTP

~~Oh, the forgot password on that site?~~ nvm, dunno what i'm talking about

Adam Lear

So, funny thing about that... the way our account recovery works, it's not necessarily sufficient to change the email.

Optimus Prime

5:54 PM

@AdamLear If the attacker changed the password, the victim can still request an account recovery and set a new password. But if the attacker changed the password, the victim can't do anything

Shog9

@OptimusPrime There's the side bit that if a provider did this they'd pretty much guarantee they weren't a trusted provider much longer.

Adam Lear

@OptimusPrime Do you mean "if the attacker change the email"?

The link is also valid for a one-time use within a certain amount of time. The window of opportunity to exploit this is there, but the odds are pretty small since you have to control the network.

Shog9

(and if you're worried about 3rd-party spoofing, game's pretty much over already)

Adam Lear

And no, changing the contact email on the account is not sufficient to prevent account recovery. Ironically, right now it actually straight up doesn't work - we don't look at the verified email in the slightest, and one of the locations we store email in that we do check isn't editable anymore.

Optimus Prime

@Shog9 If someone do an authentication bypass or got the credentials of SO on that site by bruteforcing or found an IDOR, then it can be exploited without the help of third party

@AdamLear agree with that. 30 minute lifespan

Ano

6:01 PM

@Shog9 (Not representative of me, just wanted to make the example flow) I would disclose the exact details of my tests and the user IDs of the accounts I used to do the tests, and I'd be willing to sacrifice my own account over the disclosure.

But no point talking about a joke.

Shog9

@OptimusPrime hmm

@Ano so...

- there is a non-trivial chance that someone has already done this (but not posted the details publicly as such)

Ano

@Shog9 That question was more of a joke, really.

Shog9

- there is limited value in actually knowing the details of the q-ban. We don't publish them because we don't particularly want folks to "work to the ban" if you know what I mean

Ano

@Shog9 I understood that the whole time, so that's why I described the question as a joke.

Shog9

If you're banned, there are only a few ways to get out of the ban. Knowing that question #38298321832 contributed more than question #389291818981 is of little value, but a major distraction.

Worst-case, you get folks on the very edge thinking "oh, I'll just undelete this question, problem solved" - but they're still on the very edge, now just to the other side. Next question likely gets them banned again.

Ano

6:05 PM

@Shog9 But it is useful to know to evade the ban, and not trigger it

Shog9

there are waaaay easier ways to do that

Ano

@Shog9 Can you please handle the recent flag I cast? I didn't want to make that issue public.

Optimus Prime

Nog Shine

in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 1 min ago, by HyperNeutrino

@ArtOfCode Maybe Shog9 got bored of being so All Powerful and All Knowing so he split his form into two, both of which only knew half of the original and only had half as much power, but then they both became All Powerful and All Knowing :P /s

lol

Optimus Prime

This happens on a third party plugin of GA

SmokeDetector

6:38 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Guest posting vs commenting for building backlinks by احسن سیال on webmasters.SE

SmokeDetector

6:54 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in answer: Do I risk destroying the fan if I use a vacuum cleaner on my laptop? by user875822 on superuser.com

Ano

7:13 PM

@Shog9 Is my behavior just being tested? Why was my most recent flag just "declined - No."?

Shog9

Seems self explanatory

John Dvorak

The answer seems obvious, but I'm curious what the question is

Ano

@Shog9 Meaning? I asked for a detailed explanation in that flag; are they declining the request, or refusing to provide the explanation?

John Dvorak

Yes

Ano

@Shog9 I don't just want my rep back. My request was purely based on principle. In fact, a while ago on SO, I once passionately argued that one of my questions should be undeleted, even though doing so would reduce my account rep by over 100 points (mostly from a bounty).

Shadow Wizard

7:57 PM

@Ano like I commented, with less than 1000, there's 0 chance Mr. Friend will reconsider the decision.

Ano

@ShadowWizard Commented where?

Shadow Wizard

With 1000 upvotes, there's a very very very small chance he'll reconsider, and much lower chance the decision will be reverted. Bottom line: I don't think there's anything we can do to affect major decisions like this.

(aka making SO/SE more boring.)

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