Tavern on the Meta

2:35 AM

@Abyx the words "flag it" in that screenshot he posted link to the post he commented on...

We created that pop-up specifically to link to this answer, @ThatBrazilianGuy... Which it does, in the last two words. I know, it's a long answer, but if you read it in full it describes multiple ways to flag things with nuanced suggestions for when to use each... Along with several other helpful tips for dealing with problems and avoiding them in the first place. Of course, most folks - like yourself - probably won't bother to read such a long answer, and so we tried to provide succinct guidelines in the pop-up itself. Don't complain that they lack nuance; that's rather the point. — Shog9 ♦ just now

@Shog9 Well, I guess 10 months late isn't bad ;)

Sorry, a year and 10 months.

Eh, it's a stupid comment and I probably wouldn't have bothered ever replying to it if someone hadn't taken it at face value.

The post is a long answer, part of an even longer guide - and one that's explicitly titled a guide, not a rulebook; taking one sentence from it and pretending that this is a hard rule is... Kinda disrespectful of the work that went into constructing that guidance.

True...

That was pretty much a distillation of at least 6 months worth of work with various chatrooms (plus years of experience); the goal is exactly what it states: to provide those who would moderate with guidance for doing so. It's a wiki precisely because it is intended to be a living document, and indeed multiple people have edited it since it was posted.

Honestly, it's the sort of thing we should probably do more. I've referenced (and seen others reference) that guide far more effectively than any ad-hoc discussion about chat in chat itself.

Is some of that work incorporating into the actual chat FAQ page?

2:49 AM

No; that's an item on the backlog, but...

Is it the content or the design of the chat FAQ that's causing more of a speed bump?

yes

can't do it ad-hoc; it's one big page that lives in the chat codebase

someone needs to sit down and do a thorough review, add links / change guidance / whatever

then submit that to devs & hope someone has time to build

We're bad enough about finding time to update pages in the help center, where we can do so piecemeal without assistance; this is probably a day's work + an unknown wait, so... It's been languishing on the backlog for someone to have a spare day.

I don't know... all of that seems like something that could be crowd sourced from people who are interested in helping... I mean, the FAQs here on MSE are written by users...

@Catija that's precisely why we started with a big wiki guide on meta: so others could help.

If we'd started with "let's re-write the chat FAQ", we'd have had nothing for two years now

So it's less about actually writing the content and more about formatting it and making it flow well in a useful way.

3:01 AM

I suppose; there's the additional subtlety that it's supposed to be a FAQ: answers to common questions, not a massive wall of text that nobody will bother to read.

Sure. Break it up into tidbits with questions people might actually have.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in answer, single character over used in post: How many censuses happened in the desert? by user16549 on judaism.SE

The big missing piece in the current FAQ isn't so much moderation (although a link to the meta guide certainly wouldn't hurt) as it is... Expectations.

Expectations ... for behavior?

@Catija for what chat even is

The current FAQ kinda tries to hit this a few times... Calling it "persistent" and noting that it's supposed to be kind of an extension of the main site.

but... Even if anyone reads it, that doesn't seem to get through.

3:06 AM

I guess it really depends... chat expectations and reality don't always align.

A suave way of saying "OMG, this is all public JUST LIKE EVERYTHING YOU POST ON THE MAIN SITE, and everything you say here WILL BE INDEXED BY GOOGLE FOREVER UNDER YOUR NAME" would probably help a good deal.

I mean, if anyone read it.

Oh... sure... what's wrong with that. :D The caps are good.

user315433

We will see about "under your name" part

user315433

It does capture the name used at the time, unlike almost anything else on the sites.

Comments.

3:08 AM

Yeah, that's the bit that trips people up.

Well, ok, the bit that trips people up is not realizing that anyone else can see what they're typing.

But once they've scraped their face off the floor from that, they inevitably change their name and try to pretend that they TOTALLY weren't posting nazi porn under their legal name.

I'm not sure where that expectation comes from...

The expectation is that it's like IRC or Slack: a place where information goes to die among memes and trolling. The idea that it would actually be searchable (at all or in any practical sense) is... foreign. Most popular chat systems don't really do that.

Hmmm... I've not really used either... all of the chat rooms I ever used were the public Yahoo chats from the late 90s.

Though, those were in java applets, so probably not permanent, either...

Probably not. Only Verizon and one of the many groups to hack Yahoo can read them now.

And deleted rooms are only visible to some people...

3:14 AM

see, that the current FAQ covers

So really, it tells what can't be seen but not what can and how available it is.

.... you're going to be disappointed... I'm making cakes.

I've nothing against cakes

Except making them

... you just don't like making cakes?

Why not?

3:34 AM

Too much work for... Well, cake.

I can easily make multiple pies in the time it takes to throw together a cake, and when I'm done I have pie.

Maybe it depends on the kind of cake... The pies I make take forever... I'm making bundt cakes... no leveling, frosting, other crap... just a drizzle of icing or glaze.

I don't make cakes that take work... so they're fast. :D

If I want frosted cakes, I make cupcakes... which just require a piped dollop of buttercream.

Ah. Well, that's more like a sweet bread, right? Batter inna bowl & bake.

Nothing wrong with that. Although I'd probably just do muffins, as I don't have a Bundt pan

It's still cake batter.

I have four... which is why I'm making four bundt cakes... well, technically I'm making three full-sized ones and 12 mini bundts... because... well... mini things are the best.

I'm calling it the "bundt bonanza"... because it's a three day weekend.

Should make a pie while they're baking...

Oh! It is a 3-day weekend! And here I was preparing for work...

Thanks for the reminder

Surprise day off?

3:45 AM

I guess I knew on Friday, but who knows how long ago that was

Well... it's Sunday, so about two days. :)

The math checks out, but that doesn't feel right

Nah, my holiday break was 12 days and it seemed more like 30...

... and not in a good way.

That which doesn't kill you makes you bitter

... assuming that the things are trying to kill you? Because there are a lot of great things that you can survive easily without becoming bitter. :)

My sister-in-law... not one of them.

4:02 AM

Just think of it as hard won insight into the composition of your old man

I might need some help understanding that.

Something I'd tell my wife when taking her on a tour of the family. Essentially that however strange, they all represent some part of what made me who I am.

Makes it seem less tedious

Ah. I'm guessing that means you have a big family... because I'm an only child so there's not much tedium in getting to know my family members.

The tedium is in not having any new ones to meet.

Andy, on the other hand... his mom's one of 8... I think he has 30 first cousins or so? I'm pretty sure I'll never meet them all.

Trying makes for a good road trip though I'll bet...

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: Female Muscle Bound Growth Tips by atinaevins on graphicdesign.SE

4:14 AM

Many of them still live in the same small town in Ohio. But one of his closest cousins is in Dallas and she has four kids, the youngest is only about a year older than Ben, so we went up for a day over the break. She's really nice and two of her sibs were also in residence when we came up, so it was fun... dozen kids total, 8 parents... more than my own family gatherings.

when you come from a family where the max number of people possible at an event is... about 20... and compare that to a family where the average you get is 40 and the full complement is something around 80... it can be a bit overwhelming.

A: What kind of clothes did Jesus wear?

5:59 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Why is installing .Net 3.5 SP1 so slow? by jewsdid911 on superuser.com

user315433

0

As a servant of our God. Jehovah God . Jezus never wore jeans his outer garments were simple. No need to go into spécifications

user315433

jesusinjeans.com begs to differ

Sensible Alexander

6:27 AM

... should I wear a watch? Many colleagues wear it, but I usually just take my phone from the pocket...

Unless it's to add something... fashion point?

alexolut

6:54 AM

@Abyx looks like your question about alternative chat is deleted now. I can't find it.

user315433

Old people used to write obnoxious thinkpieces about how people these days always wear watches and are slaves to the clock, but now they've switched to writing thinkpieces about how kids these days don't appreciate the benefits of an old-fashioned watch. My position is: The word 'thinkpiece' sounds like a word made up by someone who didn't know about the word 'brain'.

I like having a watch... I have a stainless steel bracelet style that I also use when I dive.

7:09 AM

@SensibleAlexander just put a chain on your phone and tuck it into your waistcoat pocket