Tavern on the Meta - 2017-09-28

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Journeyman Geek

12:07 AM

erf

0

A: Why Is SuperUser Designed to Be Hostile to Outsiders?

Kinda ironically, I'm torn between commenting on your blog and answering here. I'd like to start by saying I'll be reproducing sections of your blog post for the purposes of trying to address your issues. Having read through this though, I'm unsure that you'd be satisfied but I've tried my best. ...

spent much too much time answering this

We've been running on Redis 4.0.2 stable in dev and our DR data center for a while. Upgrading the active data center in a moment.

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on September 28, 2017 at 12:03 AM

user315433

@JourneymanGeek Why is the question tagged [stackoverflow]?

user315433

And why is is stackoverflow without a space?

Journeyman Geek

erm. GOOD QUESTION(s)

you should post on meta complaining about it. (seriously)

user315433

The latter is probably impossible to fix now, [stackoverflow] is in tags everywhere. Like in 5.5 K questions here, meta.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/stackoverflow

12:13 AM

Just add a "friendly name" field for tags that allows an alternate, properly-spaced + punctuated + capitalized + whatever those weird unicode symbols tacked onto French characters are called version of the name.

Journeyman Geek

diacritics?

@Michelle eh, if stack-overflow was correcter we could always synonimise/merge

user315433

Whitespace is represented by - in tag names already. Except when it's missing.

user315433

Same with stackexchange

user315433

But yes, friendly names... like Twitter usernames / 'real' names

user315433

@JourneymanGeek tl;dr especially because one has to read that blog first, which I'm not going to.

user315433

12:16 AM

A waste of effort.

Journeyman Geek

@Michelle TOTALLY why I reproduced parts of it

then I realised this guy just wants to drive traffic to his blog

user315433

Close reason: no Minimal, Complete, Verifiable Complaint.

Journeyman Geek

lol

When we rebrand to Stáck Överflow, friendly names for tags will become essential

Journeyman Geek

here's the problem for me here, from the community perspective

If I close it he can go "HELP HELP I AM BEING OPPRESSED"

If we don't respond, he thinks he's right.

user315433

12:18 AM

No, don't close. Downvote.

user315433

And he will think he's right anyway, so...

Journeyman Geek

because people are being hostile? ;p

quoting and answering... ;p

@Shog9 that seems a bit metal. Is this coming with the new black on black top bar?

user202362

12:49 AM

MOBILE CHAT NEEDS TO STOPPING LOGGING PPL OFF UNREASONABLY!!!

Journeyman Geek

it does?

user202362

Yes, doing it to me every time phone goes inactive

Journeyman Geek

odd

I've not had issues with mobile. One of my systems keeps logging out tho

3 hours later…

user310756

3:56 AM

@Telkitty welcome home :) we've missed you

user310756

user image

user202362

I can come & visit you and your horses next Sunday if you have time :)

user310756

@Telkitty yes!!

user202362

:D

user310756

also tell me when you have time for a quick chat about this job. I can give him your number if you give me the ok

Journeyman Geek

4:27 AM

meta.stackexchange.com/questions/301454/… .

Needs killing with fire.

user310756

4:40 AM

dead

Journeyman Geek

excellent

user310756

Mr Burns - Excellent (German)

6:21 AM

@Shog9 In light of yesterday's town hall, should I halt my weekly filling up of your ticket backlog and wait for what you're doing on SO?

→ 14 messages moved to Chimney

7:00 AM

@Magisch yes please :P

7:12 AM

@JNat I must have increased your workload by quite a bit over the last couple of weeks :p

Well, I was out last week, so... ;P

Well, I can't really do anything other then flag what I see or ignore it

at least you can deal with it more directly.

Yeah, I know. You do your thing, and I'll do mine :)

And wait for Shog to reply to your message above, to be honest. He might still take a while before he runs the thing, so much so that it might be better for you to keep flaggin' ;)

Journeyman Geek

@JNat if it was what he ran on AU - it should be .... interesting

@JNat I wonder, I saw shog mentioning a backlog. Right now I'm only flagging what happened last week every week. Is that creating an expanding backlog (meaning am I producing more flags then y'all reasonably can manually handle in a week)?

Or was that due to your vacation

7:23 AM

@Magisch you are, yeah

you increased the backlog by around 300% :P

Journeyman Geek

0_0

So if I kept doing that the backlog would only grow larger every week

I would assume

I mean it's like ~80 flags a week right now

As of a week ago I also made some changes to the script to catch more serial voters with fewer false positives, so I expect it'd be about a hundred next week

@Magisch though, every once in a while, me or animuson buckle down and get it back to 0, even if it's been steadily piling up

7:25 AM

I can imagine how hard that's to deal with it takes like 3 hours every week to just flag them all

that is with having the flag text 2/3 automated at this point

Welp, I'll wait for what shog has to say on it

;)

I'm actually kind of fascinated with how people try to abuse SO for their own ends, be it by artificially inflating reputation for some reason or spamming or subtle product placement

It's really fun to get behind how people are doing it and to devise ways to stop that

Journeyman Geek

I get the latter two actually

I'm not really sure of the value of a high reputation account at this point, outside... I donno, fun?

of course, all those things are a sign of... not getting it

@JourneymanGeek Some of my friends tell me how having reputation on SO is a good thing to put on your resume

There are so many ways in which people try to one-over SE it's fascinating to find out why and how people are doing it and how to detect it

That's why charcoal is so interesting

Journeyman Geek

@Magisch maybe SU reputation matters less, but that's something that would 1. Get you past a HR person who 2. Knows what SO is....

7:35 AM

Yeah

Journeyman Geek

but if you're faking it, you're going to get chewed up at the interview anywhere decent.

So many people are doing it though

And so many people don't end up applying "anywhere decent"

I can tell you right now you could use this as a bullet point on your resume at my workplace and they'd probably assume it's some kind of qualification

The peek behind the curtain of how the systems of abuse on SE work is so satisfying because you see all these complex schemes people have devised thinking they're so clever :D

Journeyman Geek

Its worth remembering as well, that while smokey is efficient, people still did ok clearing out spam on most active sites ;p

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Can't get Ubuntu 16.10 installation USB to boot Apollo Lake motherboard by Steve Madden on askubuntu.com

sure. With or without smokey, spam doesn't live llong

Journeyman Geek

7:39 AM

yup

(amusingly, smokey has a lot of value outside SE probably as a set of spam filters)

@JourneymanGeek nobody approached charcoal so far

8:27 AM

@Telkitty on Android, mobile chat doesn't log me off. Refreshing stale content (and probably websocket connection), sure, but not logging off. I guess you have enabled something related to... privacy?

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

8:37 AM

@Elias she is special, there is unique code that logs her off. Duh.

:D

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer: Trainings about mobile app testing by micah williams on sqa.SE

> How am I able to shutdown the system when I don't have SeShutdownPrivilege

and I thought SE as Stack Exchange, and then, "huh?"

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

lol

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

9:00 AM

throwing CW on @rene

9:12 AM

@ShaWizDowArd makes awesome header causing CW to land in Sha's Den

Journeyman Geek

@rene posts on meta complaining about the header

XD

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer: Can UPS with small internal battery used with large external battery ? what are the issues? by Ravi on electronics.SE

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

10:11 AM

Do we have spam wave on MSE? Don't remember so much spam there in the past.

Maybe the spam filters are borked? @TimPost

(Think I noticed around 10 spam questions in the last hours)

Nothing more than normal.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

hmm.... too bad I don't really keep track of those.

(10 isn't a LOT, but pretty sure it used to be less)

@ShaWizDowArd looks normal to me: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/…

Journeyman Geek

10:40 AM

this is awkward... / meta.stackexchange.com/users/369820/crawl-space-humidifier

@ShaWizDowArd I'm seeing a bit more spam than usual (in spite of smokey) on SU

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer: Is trading in the commodity futures much more riskier than trading in stock market futures? by MCX Prices on economics.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-Latin body, blacklisted user: TestDATA LSDKFJLDSNFKKKKKKKK by crystal guo on opendata.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly non-Latin answer, blacklisted user: TestDATA LSDKFJLDSNFKKKKKKKK by crystal guo on opendata.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Which rsync client can I use on windows 7? by Ankit Kumar on superuser.com

so.... I am crafting a web page with a table showing some data from a db. As usual, no specs at all. The table has 60+ fields (many of them being note fields), so displaying them would basically mean that the scroll bar handle would have the size of a coffee bean... Asked which field to show on the table and whose to only display in a detail view....

The reply I got was "keep them all on the table, make the font smaller so more of them fit in"

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

10:59 AM

@rene hmm... sure Smokey catch all the spam?

@JourneymanGeek nah, typical spam account

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWizDowArd nothing to flag ;p

I nuked them on SU

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Alternative reward levels to “Gold, Silver, Bronze”? by Anneke Sips on ux.SE

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@JourneymanGeek well, it's not indexed by search engines afaik, so no big deal. :)

All 8 non frozen MSE chat rooms were last active today. Nice.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

11:36 AM

tempted to insta-close the TeamDAG question just to see who voted to close it.....

;)

tempted to go hiding on a desolate mountain as an hermit in order to forget the horrors of software development

deceze got a big room on his face to accommodate his nose

Perhaps its Javr? o________o — deceze ♦ 4 mins ago

can anyone stop this sh*t. I am seeing this for the 3rd time today.

user image

Maybe more concisely: "How do you move a top 50 website from #AspNet to #AspNetCore without anyone noticing?" It'll be a fun adventure.

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on September 28, 2017 at 4:34 AM in reply to Nick_Craver

need moar space

user image

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

12:10 PM

@redhand what you talk about? Your rep gain? The downvoted question?

@ShaWizDowArd no. the achievements indicator. the green

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, pattern-matching website in answer: How to select the correct grinding wheel type for precision grinding of tool steels? by Suraj Tiwari on engineering.SE

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand you don't want to see when you get reputation?

Guess you can use some userscript to disable it.

I see the rep indicator light up many times, really no idea why it bothers you. :/

@ShaWizDowArd look the list below it. there is nothing highlighted. I've already seen it today morning. It showing the 130 for the third time

@ShaWizDowArd may be a they are planning to celebrate Diwali

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

It's the 100 bonus plus 3 upvotes on the answer below it

12:22 PM

@ShaWizDowArd yes,

I've already seen it in the morning

then it showed the green after few hours without any new rep change

again now

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

4

Q: Achievements dialog shows "new" rep earnings which aren't when hopping to a different site

Multiple times today, when I have clicked open a link to one of the sites in the network, I have seen a green highlight with something like "+49" as if I had recently earned an additional 49 reputation points since I last reviewed my reputation. But these reports are for reputation which was alr...

bug reputation achievements-dialog

already reported

@ShaWizDowArd yes. Still not solved and I am getting annoyed by it

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@redhand wait 6-8 months... then 6-8 more months. Repeat 6-8 times, and maybe it will be fixed.

(chance is around 6-8%)

1:09 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive answer detected: Why is it a good idea to teach chess in schools? by user14435 on chess.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: How to pick an embroidery machine by Aimee Aimee on crafts.SE

1:42 PM

Are there experiments and/or known conditions where the sitename in the <title> of question page is replaced with the pay-off: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/357195/578411

user315433

"Welcome to Where Developers Learn, Share, & Build Careers!" may be more accurate in the age of LinkeInization of SO.

That is also true, yes. I do realize the content of the title is not API contract.

Yet I can't repro

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

hmm... wonder who is Christopher Parnin and how is he related to the Mentorship project?

buh.... turns out the whole mentor project resulted in draft questions. Bummer.

user315433

2:00 PM

> Examines how mediums such as Stack Overflow, github, and blog posts enable a crowd of developers to more effectively learn, collobrate, and create software. Understand barriers and bias in online communities. chrisparnin.me

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWizDowArd sounded like the point

user315433

Official webpage of NCSU comp-sci department, csc.ncsu.edu/people/cjparnin

Journeyman Geek

Denae Ford sounds familiar...

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

> Assistant Professor & Assistant Professor

Huh? ^

Journeyman Geek

> What we’re working on is reducing the instances of scenarios #1-3. We’re working with Denae Ford, a CS PhD student at NCSU (you might recognize her from her wonderful research work on gender-based barriers to Stack Overflow usage). Our first attempt to resolve this problem and make Stack Overflow friendlier to new folks (and hopefully also write a paper about it!), is to test a lightweight mentorship program.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

2:03 PM

@JourneymanGeek yeah she is the researcher who led the project in the beginning

user315433

Just an off-by-one error, one of those hard things in computer science.

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

But didn't hear about Chris until now, saw him in the email we got

Journeyman Geek

@ShaWizDowArd could be in two different things...

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

Or like the M in M & M?

Journeyman Geek

Maybe

user315433

2:04 PM

If Denae Ford is a PhD student, then she has an advisor...

Journeyman Geek

Universities are strange

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@JourneymanGeek surely @Michelle can tell

Journeyman Geek

@Michelle and he's probably her advisor, since she's on his page

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

So he's her boss?

user315433

@JourneymanGeek Correct, www4.ncsu.edu/~dford3

Journeyman Geek

2:05 PM

@ShaWizDowArd "boss" .... is kinda the wrong phrase

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

@Michelle whoa. 2.22 MB picture.

Journeyman Geek

Clearly you've never read piled higher and deeper ;p

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

They surely don't care about their bandwidth...

user315433

One of her articles was 11 Signs Of A Frustrated Programmer

Journeyman Geek

at least that isn't her thesis....

Sha Wiz Dow Ard

2:12 PM

I think they spend to much mental efforts into it.

2:29 PM

@redhand the estimate is 9-15 months. I liked Jeff's estimates better ....

itsfoss.com/ubuntu-drops-32-bit-desktop

20 hours ago, by Shog9

A little over a year ago, I tested a new system on Ask Ubuntu. The accuracy was much improved, but the user experience left much to be desired. After a year of additional testing, tweaking and soul-searching, I’m preparing to run a similar test on Stack Overflow.

Journeyman Geek

@AaronHall the context/story behind it was interesting

Sorry I missed the town hall. But I'd like to go on record in support of this, even though I suspect it will have some negative affect on me, as I don't have a lot of rep-cap days, and I do get enthusiastic thank-you comments, probably several a month...

It's bad for the integrity and reputation of the site for users to vote for people over content.

2:45 PM

All your rep is from my sock-puppets .... mwahahahahaha

Journeyman Geek

@AaronHall timing dosen't work for me. I probably could set an alarm or something, but... ;p

@rene I sometimes worry about that. I'm probably too paranoid for my own good...

Journeyman Geek

and hah. For all the love I get from my users, I worry people vote for (my online persona) rather than my answers ;p

(granted meta's not 'my' users, but I think at this point I'm at least a little recognisable ;p)

negative e ffect.

worries he's gonna lose 20k rep...

But I could probably do some math and reassure myself that's not possible...

I don't like a lot of my rep coming from a few answers, but the upside is I know each upvote is a different account.

@AaronHall The backstory to this is that I was an annoying shit and increased the serial voting backlog on SO by 300%

Journeyman Geek

2:57 PM

;p

> The backstory to this is that I was an annoying shit

lets just stoooop there...

Kind as always, journeyman

Journeyman Geek

I aim to please. Or for the head.

(and as I did that - "Crouching Camper Hidden Sniper" started playing on foobar2k Perfect timing)

Whoever starred that... well played sir

raises his hand

stretches

Hmm

I should let my script search for aaron and unmask his voting ring conspiracy with @rene ....

That sounds as a plan

3:13 PM

My sockpuppet finding script shows @AaronHall is a sockpuppet off ... aaron hall

:D

No one likes to admit a mistake, but it feels good for rene to come clean.

I want to create a Meta room called "The Complaints Department" with the description "Where we bitch and moan and star stupid stuff". But I want to do a lot of things I never do...

user315433

MathOverflow is 8 years old today. Most viewed questions of last year are in their cherished big-list tradition: Mathematically interesting screensavers and The most outrageous (or ridiculous) conjectures in mathematics

3:29 PM

montypython.net/scripts/compdept.php

user315433

The youngest site, Augur, still has ridiculously unbalanced reputation: user #1 has 3928 rep, #2 has 926 rep.

I have a friend who works at BuzzFeed. The last time I saw him, I asked if he was still BuzzFed.

Journeyman Geek

or buzzfed up?

@AaronHall that's all of chat

@JourneymanGeek That's not true, I started a Haskell room that's starting to get traction...

Journeyman Geek

@AaronHall people will bitch and moan and star stupid stuff. In Haskell then

3:37 PM

:)

I'd like to try to find the first Haskell room (all prior have frozen) and unfreeze and try to keep it going there, but I've already given out the link to the new room.

AFK - out to lunch...

user315433

I have "activity" page as default so I don't usually see what users put in their "bio". Jon Clements has excellent philosophy of moderation there.

3:55 PM

I'm having a zen hot-dog lunch. I told the guy to make me one with everything.

Journeyman Geek

I hope you paid him exactly. Change must come from within

I did.

4:32 PM

@angussidney o hai! Time-shifted reply. We’ll definitely take this into account when putting the plan together. I like the every fourth town hall or so being “later” idea. Just need to gather some CMs who are willing to stay up late/get up early now and then. ;)

anyway, stay tuned & thanks for asking

user315433

4:59 PM

@JourneymanGeek Do you mean there is more spam that does not get not detected?

user315433

0

A: Can Alexa ever speak without being prompted?

My Alexa spoke out random last night. She was playing music, and I was reading an email. I said aloud "oh your so funny" and she stopped the music, and said "I'm glad you think I'm so funny" I did not say her name, and if I did, she couldn't have heard me over the music prompt her. Freaked me out!

user315433

The future is here... I hope the next invention is time machine that will travel to the time when this stuff didn't exist.

6:07 PM

1 hour later...

> Java Technologies, such as Spring, Hibernate, jQuery, JavaScript and SQL

hmm...

4 hours later…

10:29 PM

@hairboat thanks! Sounds great

user315433

Bitcoin needs more than 2 mods, they will draw in disguised spam without someone with spam experience reviewing every post.

@Michelle I'm working on it

user315433

10:45 PM

Now wondering what a drawing of disguised spam would look like.

user315433

> `They were learning to draw,' the Dormouse went on, yawning and rubbing its eyes, for it was getting very sleepy; `and they drew all manner of things--everything that begins with an M--'
`Why with an M?' said Alice.
`Why not?' said the March Hare.
The Dormouse [...] went on: `--that begins with an M, such as mouse-traps, and the moon, and memory, and muchness-- you know you say things are "much of a muchness"--did you ever see such a thing as a drawing of a muchness?'

user image

Journeyman Geek

11:16 PM

@hairboat or on a different timezone ;p

Granted, you guys just lost one of the two closest to my timezone :(

Journeyman Geek

11:39 PM

@Michelle hah. I actually was hunting a spammer ring yesterday, 17 accounts ._.

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