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1:00 PM
unrelatedly @ShadowWizard i.sstatic.net/rI9Ey.jpg this is my dog on his way home
@ShadowWizard i actually don't. i think poop jokes should be organic.
@JasonC :(
@JourneymanGeek nice! Looks like he love to travel by car... :D
oh hey
turns out it's trivially easy for us to change the wheel of blame people
1:04 PM
@ShadowWizard הo
it never registered to me that it was on jsfiddle
@Mithrandir הממ?
@ShadowWizard Hey oh.
@JasonC lol! But we can only create new versions, not change the original
right but i can update the room description
that's revision 12 anyways
1:05 PM
Oh yes you can!
@Mithrandir It's Shadow Wizard's fault.
on the other hand the wheel of blame is something that i've literally never cared about. the only reason it's still in the room description at all is i'm a sucker for tradition.
i think i might have clicked it once.
Right, !!/blame is easier :}
1:07 PM
But !!/blame usually miss lots of possible people to blame
!!/blame @JasonC
@Mithrandir It's Bart's fault.
Bleh, can't mod abuse it here :P
in Charcoal HQ on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 28 secs ago, by SmokeDetector
@Mithrandir It's everyone's fault.
1:09 PM
@SmokeDetector gone
there's also the crazy built-in wheel of blame, which i never activated before but man it's weird
run this:
var msg = $('.message').last().addClass('neworedit');
Eggs.WOB.blame(msg.parent().parent().attr('class').match(/user-(\d+)/)[1], msg);
it's like, a whole production. also warning: it makes sound
@JasonC New? O! Redit!
A: What Easter Eggs do the chat sites have?

pokeBecause this came up earlier in the Python chatroom: The chat script is made so all easter eggs, except the activated one, are removed at run-time, making them inaccessible. On StackOverflow, the activated easter egg is Cthulu. You can activate Cthulu by entering a regex that matches a HTML tag....

@JasonC I edited that with superpowers :P
@JasonC You missed the joke.
i'm confused but that's ok i'm just going to power through this
1:14 PM
Not sure the egg is activated on here..
@Elephant $.getScript('http://cdn-chat.sstatic.net/chat/Js/eggs.js'); + the appropriate Eggs init can get whatever one you want back
but i'm getting distracted, what i was really looking for was: does anybody remember that sneaky little url that gives you the list of pingable users in chat?
chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/pingable/89, don't remember if that's mod-only though
Woah... the Cthulu Tony the Pony, he comes!
@Mithrandir works for me, and also in rooms i don't own. sweet, thanks.
it's weird
for an arbitrary room is there a way to figure out what site those user id's are for?
It's Chat IDs
So, the IDs for chat.***.com.
1:19 PM
i guess that chat.meta.se ids are the same as mse ids. it was momentarily misleading.
@JasonC yup
@Jason do your stats have stars as well?
(aka are stars part of the stuff you scraped?)
@ShadowWizard He does ;p
i have the information about the stars in the downloaded transcripts although i do not have any code written yet to parse them. but i do have the info.
@JourneymanGeek like all kids... ;)
@JasonC hmm.... so Star Hall of Fame won't be trivial?
the only thing i'd be missing is new stars added to old messages that i already downloaded. which is relatively infrequent.
1:22 PM
(Obviously @Bart is #1, just wonder about the rest ;))
it wouldn't be trivial but it wouldn't be prohibitively difficult either
Q: I'm seeing stars! (I can see who starred a message and so can you)

DoorknobSo I was making a chatbot in Ruby for SE chat, and I discovered that I could find out the starrer of a message. I'm pretty sure stars, like votes, are supposed to be anonymous. Although this knowledge would help for cases of star trolls like this. Here's the specific slice of code that do...

however i'd probably want to redownload the previous 3 or 4 days of transcripts each time to keep the old message star counts fresh. it's too bad i can't download old info about timestamps of stars, i'd be curious to see the distribution of message ages.
@Mithrandir yeah i know about that. it's fun. but it's for real time stuff. here we're dealing with scraped transcripts for past data.
@Mithrandir nah, different thing. @Jason isn't using bots or sockets, just plain old screen scraping.
@ShadowWizard another data source could be scraping chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/89/tavern-on-the-meta/… but it's unnecessary for me since i have the transcripts. just fyi.
1:26 PM
@JasonC yeah, too bad it won't accept "user" query string parameter e.g. chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/89/tavern-on-the-meta/…
no but you can rebuild that on your end
@JasonC sure... just too lazy. :D
cheers to that
@ShadowWizard lol. When we change our car this year, one of the most important things we need to look at are arm rests the right height for him to look out of ;p
but whatever. at some point i'll do all this. i've been planning a little web site with the transcript scraping that gives you better search and fun stats for all the rooms.
it's a lot of data to store, though.
1:40 PM
Oh cool, wildcards work in favorite tags.
@JourneymanGeek that's adorable
@Mithrandir yeah but they auto expand IIRC, making them slightly less useful than they could be
@Stijn: Is this question in any way clear as to what it wants? Maybe the dupe is not a perfect fit, but don't re-open questions that should be closed any way. — Cerbrus 3 mins ago
^That looks like abuse to me.
Using gold badge powers to close as a dupe when it isn't, but leaving it closed because it's not a good question anyway.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly dots in answer: Eliminar Archivo o Caperta en C# by micky khan on es.stackoverflow.com
2:10 PM
@JasonC We once rented a minivan with arm rest that did not meet his standards. he was not happy
haha, aw. i wonder if there's some as-seen-on-tv invention for this.
2:25 PM
@JourneymanGeek lol... of course. You keep saying "we", you mean you and your dog?
(or do you mean your parents' car?)
@ShadowWizard ouch,I didn't saw it coming
@ShadowWizard my dad's car
brother borrows it quite a lot of the time.
@JasonC sounds good!
@JourneymanGeek and you the rest of the time?
we I suppose means the household in this case.
New meaning for "family car". :D
2:26 PM
Never bothered with a licence ;p
@JourneymanGeek oh, lol
@Fawad :P
Cars are pricy and I can get anywhere in singapore on public transport.
@Pëkka so you had a carrot cake recently? ;)
@JourneymanGeek that's good.... and totally not the situation here in Israel. I mean you can get anywhere, but it can take x5 time than with car. And also not cheap.
so why bother?
@ShadowWizard we're smaller
and cars are too expensive
@JourneymanGeek you mean the city? Or country? Israel is smaller, I bet. ;)
2:30 PM
@ShadowWizard erm same difference
singapore essentially is a city and its suburbs ;p
We'd probably fit inside tel aviv
23.52 million ppl in Taiwan.... only 7m in Israel :/
So.... nope.
Taiwan is far away
Admit it, you are bigger!
2:33 PM
I live in singapore.
under 6 million I think
@JourneymanGeek right, and there are over 5 million other people living there as well
@JourneymanGeek 5.399, though probably more now. See my screenshot :)
We're smaller. Nyah
2:35 PM
@JourneymanGeek bigger than Tel Aviv!
@ShadowWizard land area ;p
@JasonC that can't be good
Singapore is tiny, but densely populated
What you broke this time? @Jason
oh if it's so tiny maybe @Journeyman can look for the long lost @UniKitty? ;)
2:37 PM
i keep falling into this spiral of thinking that my cat's illness was preventable. i seem to be obsessed with finding environmental factors. is my other cat a carrier for some disease that i should've got her tested for? should i have taken recent water quality problems more seriously? should we have tested for e.g. chronic copper toxicity or something? it's driving me nuts.
i'm taking my other cat to the vet on thursday to have her tested for all of the big name contagious diseases.
she's not eating well either but i can't tell if it's a problem filtered through my paranoia vs. her getting used to the lack of presence of the other cat.
@JasonC no no no. no. No. NO. Stap it. Really.
I mean..... you could do nothing more/better/before, you did the best. And you know it.
i know. but there is a reasonable part of this, too. if it is an environmental factor i want to make sure it doesn't happen to my other cat. at least that's how i'm partially justifying this.
@JasonC very partial excuse.... but just ask the doctor, he surely knows more than you, and more neutral on this so will be more focused.
and if she is a carrier for something i need to know. i have zero plans on getting another cat but some day down the line if i do i'd need to know it was safe. or if i ever have a room mate with a pet.
@JasonC do cats even have such things? Never thought of that.
(e.g. like HIV for cats??)
2:41 PM
Still, even if your other cat does have, you couldn't possibly know.
they can be asymptomatic carriers for felv, fip, fiv, and distemper. all of which are possible underlying explanations for my late cat's symptoms.
we never were able to determine what was going on. we couldn't get a positive confirmation of lymphoma. we had so many theories. i wasn't keeping you guys up to date in here but it was a hellish week.
yeah i can have her tested for all these things.
And testing a new pet for all possible diseases is just crazy, if even possible.
Maybe for some common, but then what if she had uncommon disease?
they both are up to date on rabies and distemper vaccines. she was fiv negative 3 years ago. these diseases are also communicable from street cats by flies and fleas, of which there are plenty this time of year.
i can't test her for uncommon stuff. i know.
but i can test her for the big killers.
none of them had fip vaccines.
there are other odd things that have been happening in the last few months too that we weren't able to connect. my living cat got sick, drooling, a few months ago. but her teeth weren't in great shape. so we cleaned them, through her on antibiotics, and called it a day. but could she have caught something from e.g. a flea bite and just became a carrier?
i've been depressed and not changing their litter as often as i should. a lot of these diseases are communicable through feces. could something have been trasmitted?
my late cat's black coat turned orange since december last year. we explained it as salivary staining, very common. but it's also a symptom of certain chronic metal toxicity, and the copper levels have been slightly elevated but not above epa limits in the water here for the past 6 months. i put them on bottled water 2 months ago because of a lot of sediment appearing in my tap water.
the orange is also explainable through dietary deficiencies.
There's not much you can do about bug bites.
2:49 PM
it's just, there's sooooo many data points we had, and we just couldn't connect the dots. it's driving me crazy. even the doctors felt like we were missing something. but we had 4 internal medicine specialists and 2 critical care specialists problem solving at the hospital. i feel like we avoided the tunnel vision problems. but it still feels weird.
i deal very poorly with unsolved/unsolvable problems in general.
i talked to the hospital, unfortunately we don't have enough remaining biological samples to do metal toxicity tests, and we never took a liver aspirate, ultrasound and xrays and bloodwork didn't point to the liver as the primary problem, and he wasn't jaundiced until the very end, and we were focused on the more obvious things (his spleen was enlarged, he had chronic ibd, and a massively enlarged lymph node, severe anemia).
(we had to give up when his calcium levels suddenly plummeted sunday morning and he had a seizure. he was in poor condition but stable prior to that.)
4 cytology tests (3 lymph samples, 1 spleen sample), no positives for cancer. there was an unusual distribution of lymphocyte sizes in his lymph node but not unusual enough to make a conclusion. dude we were in full on problem-solving-against-the-clock mode. and never got an answer.
@JasonC yeah I can see that...
he's got one more lab test that hasn't returned yet. if it shows a rarer cancer then we know (although we still don't know if an environmental factor triggered it, e.g. felv sharply increases lymphoma risks), and if it's inconclusive, we never know.
2:56 PM
But @Jason thing is, many times doctors fail to do those things even with humans, it's just too complicated, and too much data to process... so really, even with all of this, no reason to feel bad.
unfortunately, i can't tell if this is somehow me rationalizing things and dealing with grief vs. my normal obsession with solving problems, or a dangerous combination of both.
You give your cats better treatments than many people get in their lifetime, you know.
@JasonC I'd say combo, hopefully not dangerous...
yeah... in any case, i am sure, no matter what, that in time i'll have a more concrete grip on how i feel about all this.
i hate this waiting-it-out phase of emotional disturbances though. silly human brains.
for now i'm just avoiding all social interaction until i have faith in my sanity again. except for the tavern, which for some reason seems to be an acceptable outlet for general insanity, lol.
@JasonC that is because here mad is sane, and sane is mad. :D
3:02 PM
But what about the project? @Jason (I mean.... money is something we just need, not much choice)
i wrote a thank you letter to the hospital and explicitly thanked the poor front desk staff for somehow putting up with my relentless anxiety.
i need to get back into work
@JasonC heh, yeah.... and still about money, they didn't really do it all for free... that's also a factor. :)
and my total 2017 vet bills are $20,500. which... ugh.
@JasonC whoa.. and it's not even half year yet.
that's like student loan debt level
it's fine. it's motivation to get my shit together. i can make that money if i work like a normal person instead of sitting around.
3:04 PM
Worst case, guess you can take loans from friends/family. No?
my parents agreed to help me pay for cognitive behavioral therapy for my motivation issues, which is a long time coming.
@JasonC huh. But it still does not cover that 20k debt
yeah i mean... my parents will help me out if i'm in a bind, they want to help me, but it's this whole complicated personal thing. i hate, hate, borrowing money from people. there's no reason i shouldn't be able to be self-sufficient at this stage in my life.
i know. but i've got good credit, a few good credit cards, i just finished paying one off last week actually. my total debt right now is down to about $12000, i actually did manage to pay $8500 off so far.
i've got about half of it on a 6-month no-interest card (after that i'm fucked).
@JasonC it's not just self-sufficient, it's like you have kids. and they cost tons of money. You're not living alone and isolated. :)
so all i've really got to worry about is 19% apr on the remaining $6000.
3:06 PM
but the thing is
if i keep the freelance work coming
and work 40 hours a week like a normal person
Most freelance work isn't per-hour, but per project. No?
i can gross $240k/year. obviously that's waaay upper bound. but right now, with lack of motivation, i'm making like $40k/year.
I mean, you can work 200 hours in a week and get paid for the whole project, you can choose your own hours.
i think i can realistically make $100k
no i always bill hourly unless it's looking like a crazy huge project, in which case i work with the client and bill fairly.
3:09 PM
@JasonC 40k/year isn't much indeed, true. It's about the average here though.
@JasonC oh, didn't know. so you report how many hours you worked every month and get paid according to this?
it's very case-by-case. for example with my longer term client we did a weekly flat rate with a certain amount of hours built in, whether i worked those hours or not, since the projects were so unevenly distributed, and then i charged double overtime on a weekly basis. that worked well.
@ShadowWizard yeah. sometimes. every client is different. i try to work with them.
@JasonC and the current client? With the lights?
but i have some base rates that are always my starting point.
for him it's my standard hourly rates, and daily travel rates for off site work.
he's the client i used to make the weekly flat rate for. that's when i worked for him almost full-time.
(and now you see why i haaaaaaaaaaaaate writing invoices)
3:12 PM
But guess it's a must, otherwise IRS will be all over you... no?
i don't want to talk about the irs
let's just say i have some catching up to do
> In the 2015 fiscal year, the IRS processed almost 240 million returns and collected approximately $3.3 trillion in revenue, spending 35¢ for every $100 it collected.
scaring away slowly
i've been subconsciously blocking it out but the reality is i am going to owe the irs a lot of money in back taxes.
i filed for an extension this year and will be working with an accountant during the off season, i think i'll tackle it in june/july.
@JasonC sounds bad... hope it won't be so bad when the time comes. :)
it will. oh it will. lol.
but you know: deny, deny, deny!
3:15 PM
Stay strong.... and you might ask @Bart to give you his Smiting Stick just in case. As a loan. ;)
freelancing is fun too because for that type of payment there's a 29% base tax rate, period. so no matter what, i owe a third of what i've made in the past i-don't-want-to-think-about-it years.
fortunately, the irs does have some amount of compassion. they do payment plans. as long as you are clearly attempting to pay your taxes they'll generally be satisfied.
people give them too much hate.
i think john oliver did a nice little bit about feeling bad for irs employees.
Well, if they will let people off the hook too much, the government would lose billions upon billions of dollars, and they simply can't afford it.
USA itself got a HUGE debt, no?
I remember it being a big issue few years ago.
yeah but
i don't understand economics at all
somehow it's supposed to have a certain amount of debt. for reasons i don't understand part of it is a good thing. way beyond me.
i have no idea how it relates to taxes
What I understand is that a country got its income from its own population, aka taxes. That is used for everything. So less income, less budget. Greater debt. Bad things.
yeah but we also borrow money from other countries and somehow that relates to keeping value to money or something.
3:23 PM
So those who avoid taxes just harm their own country.
yes absolutely
i am definitely not anti taxes
@JasonC sure, that's where things get complicated
i want to pay them
i mean that's why e.g. my roads are paved and i have running water
it's just... i get so intimidated by the process
I think I saw not long ago that USA can't possibly ever go to war with China due to their debt or something like that. Might also be nonsense. lol
who knows
also lol i love john oliver
3:25 PM
@JasonC yeah, I know :)
@JasonC fiat currency only has value as long as everyone pretends it has value. Not having debt provides less incentive to pretend what you're owed isn't worthless.
The Ben Franklin effect is a proposed psychological phenomenon: A person who has performed a favor for someone is more likely to do another favor for that person than they would be if they had received a favor from that person. An explanation for this would be that we internalize the reason that we helped them was because we liked them. The opposite case is also believed to be true, namely that we come to hate a person whom we did wrong to. We de-humanize them to justify the bad things we did to them. It has been suggested that if soldiers who have killed enemy servicemen in combat situations later...
(I highly doubt there's much relevance there on a national level, but...)
woo hoo a new wikipedia hole to fall in to
although right now i'm busy watching michael bolton serenade the irs, lol
just remember, "you never miss your anus 'til it's gone"
Is SE workforce sufficiently connected and engaged on Google+?
3:38 PM
Google's internal G+ wasn't even particularly active any more. I can't imagine it's a hit inside very many other companies.
3:51 PM
I imagine, in about 7 years, my company is going to look at G+ and say "Wow! Look at this new thing! We should migrate to it!" then spend 3 years migrating us.
4:44 PM
> I'd like to encourage more diverse questions. Our user base lately feels like its shrunk considerably while the world of Graphic Design has and continues to grow. -- graphicdesign.meta.stackexchange.com/q/3133
Unclear if there's data to back up the feeling of shrinkage.
As a consolation prize, GD recently overtook Ask Different for second spot in the spam ranking, behind SO of course.
Consider that GD gets about half as much spam as SO; while getting 0.17% of SO's question volume overall.
5:09 PM
SO is the 99%! We want more spam for SO! #OccupyGraphicDesign
5:22 PM
Vasudha is now the PM for Docs; I somehow missed her first post announcing this.
7:15 PM
@Gerry heh, she got a typo in her name either on SO or in LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/vasudhaswaminathan
So Swaminthan or Swaminathan? Guess only she knows.
Easy to make mistakes with such a name, but still....
It's her effing name!
Yup. But what is her name?
Hmm, maybe it's some kinda mountweasel?
7:17 PM
mount who?
@Gerry I don't think Docs had any PM for long long time.
And that's probably why it's nearly dead.
Like, she'd know which profile info is exposed when the spammers use her name
umm... also, she's just a product. o_O
So... Documentation is just a fake. It's all about her. :P
@ShadowWizard I suddenly had a weird vision of a twisted dystopian future
7:21 PM
@M.A.R. nah, spammers are afraid of PMs
@M.A.R. share! Please! :D
@M.A.R. this?
@Gerry heh, I was part of internal social network of a big Israeli company (amdocs), it was launched with bells and whistles (and late night party), and died rather quickly after nobody used it.
Anyway.... plus.google.com/+StackExchange looks dead to me indeed.
Will it onebox? Let's see... nope. But funny they said "and neither is this Google Plus page" - this was one of the last messages.
@ShadowWizard Well, less of the cute cupid and more of The Island
@M.A.R. Island? Like England?
Nah, it's a movie
Mindless Michael Bay action, but still
7:37 PM
@M.A.R. lol I know. Love trolling you. :P
@ShadowWizard Bad troll
If the guy doesn't feel trolled you're either very good or mediocre.
@M.A.R. :(
But what was your vision?
A factory with different packages containing humans, that lead to QC to get stamped
@JonEricson sometimes the most optimistic thing to do is quit when you're ahead. I guess, that ship sailed months (years?) ago for Documentation. Now, it's at an even worse spot - do you wipe everything out when you eventually revamp it (thus alienating the only people currently even interested in it)? Or do you just accept Docs will have massive tech debt in terms of low quality documentation and just hope for something miraculous to occur where all the users you've spent a year or more frustrating magically come in and save the day? — enderland 1 min ago
Kinda struggling to see where you're going with this, @enderland
7:46 PM
He's not pingable here... unless this is a super ping?
it is
hence the edit, since I pinged the wrong person first :-/
heh, we mortals can't tell.
@Shog9 going to meta.SO
Where else? o.o
Mike B - how you made such mistake? @Shog
> Last seen Sep 22 '16 at 11:30
7:48 PM
@ShadowWizard don't onebox: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/133240
Probably he won't join us anyway
@ShadowWizard There's an autocomplete with usernames
@M.A.R. so it's using the chat user name.. and it's not synched with actual name... huh. Poor @Shog.
What I get for relying on tab completion
@Shog but what if you want to super ping a Dan? How you choose?
7:51 PM
@ShadowWizard I'd rather be able to super-ping mistakenly than not super-ping at all
@ShadowWizard why would I ever want that?
@Shog9 dunno, there are thousands of them.
Super-pinging Jeff
Hello @@1 what's up?
@Shog9 Well, he has a point. There are a lot of generic names
7:52 PM
@ShadowWizard for that, I'd have to remember the name of the database here, and it's long and annoying.
Tim, Tom, Tam, Tym . . .
@M.A.R. so you just look up the user ID and be done with it
@M.A.R. Who are you calling "generic"?
@Andy "Andy" reminds me of the Nokia generic ringtone
7:53 PM
@ShadowWizard No. Almost always delete.
Get a non-generic name, generic-name
If you turn in homework and your professor finds it on Stack Overflow, it doesn't help you much if your name has been removed from it.
Ditto for turning in homework and all of your classmates turning in the same answer 'cause they found your question on SO.
So they want it gone, not disassociated.
oh, not many Dans on MSE: meta.stackexchange.com/…
Only ~100 or so
I somehow tend to have better things to do than match submitted HW against SO (or Math). But I suppose there are people who feel stronger about this / have more time.
@Shog9 but that only bury the user deeper in the question ban.
7:56 PM
@ShadowWizard and?
@ShadowWizard Try Tim, John, Matt, Gill Bates, Arun and Kumar
Folks who care enough to try and get out of the question ban < folks who care enough to try to not get kicked out of school after blatantly cheating for months
@Shog9 I mean users who try to get out of question ban by asking to disassociate their downvoted questions from their account.
@ShadowWizard that doesn't work anyway
We just delete them and now they're extra q-banned.
@Shog9 how so? I've seen cases it was done by CM's and it actually lifted the ban.
7:57 PM
@ShadowWizard This is pretty rare.
@Shog9 of course, but those who see it, know they can ask too
@ShadowWizard sure. And we'll send 'em back a canned message that sez, "we don't lift q-bans upon request"
Alex, John, and Chris are most common names on SO: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/660336/…
@Shog9 exactly my point. :)
But wonder how many of these you get?
@Gerry no Dan??? Weird.
Although Mike+Michael could beat them if combined.
7:59 PM
@ShadowWizard Same thing, split between Dan and Daniel.

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