Tavern on the Meta

user202362

12:11 AM

Of COURSE you don't! You're a moderator! Expecting you to "buy it" is like expecting a police department to find a cop in the wrong for shooting an unarmed civilian! How often do you expect THAT to happen?

user202362

Reminds me of the time when I mentioned that we should have transparent little bins at train station some 10 years because of the bomb scares that there were no bins at train stations, and my colleague was like 'what are we going to do with transparent little bins?'

user202362

Guess what, now we have transparent little bins at train stations

user202362

And many years ago I guessed that people should get money back for exercising. And guess what? Now it's implemented by health insurance companies.

user202362

And the couple of times when my idea got 'borrowed' after I pitched them ...

bjb568

12:29 AM

I'm sure the government has surveillance just on you so as to find the best policies to implement.

user335633

squash one bug, get something to work, find another bug... cycle repeats.... i HATE Android

user335633

why is it so complicated to clear a listview

user202362

@bjb568 the sad thing is that, if it did, those policies would have probably been implemented much earlier

user202362

I was literally laughed at for telling such ideas

hichris123

@DamienPaul It shouldn't be? stackoverflow.com/a/7400519/2581872

SmokeDetector

12:40 AM

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user335633

I must be dumb, can't quite figure out where that goes

user335633

I need all the listview to be cleared

SmokeDetector

1:02 AM

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user335633

@hichris123 didn't work

user335633

Android is uselessly complicated I am finding - thankfully I will not be required to use it after this project

hichris123

Can't really help you then, sorry. :P It's been a long time since I tried to deal with Android stuff.

SmokeDetector

3:48 AM

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4:53 AM

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5:59 AM

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6:21 AM

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6:56 AM

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7:13 AM

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Derpy

7:42 AM

@Telkitty Ideas that get implemented are 1% creation, 75 % money and 30% knowing the right persons

user202362

@Derpy 106%?

Derpy

@Telkitty If Willy Wonka can do percentages that add up to 105%, I don't see why I can't go even further and reach 106.

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user202362

I was pointing out, not saying that you can't

user202362

8:08 AM

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, 2 days ago, by Telkitty

also why do we have to work harder than our ancestors? Aren't machines and computers save us for 'better' things ... like innovation?

user202362

@Derpy there is nothing new, you must have thought about that right?

Derpy

9:08 AM

@Telkitty well, since you asked, here is a little slice of life episode. When I was very little and going to elementary school, I was pretty amazed by those dynamo you had on bikes that would lit a light when you made the wheel turn....

Magisch

@Telkitty In theory they were for that. In practice, they make for faster and more intensive wealth aggregation - which means everybody else (the ones without hereditary, self increasing wealth) now have to be better then the machines and provide more value then a comparable machine to still be worth employing.

Derpy

So, I drawn a nice plan. You took a candle, put it under a glass of water and above the glass you have a pinwheel attached to a dynamo.... The vapor would rise and make the pinwheel turn and lit your light.

"This is brilliant! I will be rich"... those was my though.

Bart

Can I interest you in some solar roadways?

Derpy

Then, I discovered that thermal power stations had already be invented...

Bart

PS10 solar power plant

The PS10 Solar Power Plant (Spanish: Planta Solar 10), is the world's first commercial concentrating solar power tower operating near Seville, in Andalusia, Spain. The 11 megawatt (MW) solar power tower produces electricity with 624 large movable mirrors called heliostats. It took four years to build and so far cost €35 million (US$46 million). PS10 produces about 23,400 megawatt-hours (MW·h) per year, for which it receives €271 (US$360) per MW·h under its power purchase agreement, equating to a revenue of €6.3 million per year. == Suppliers == The mirrors were delivered by Abengoa, the s...

Derpy

9:16 AM

It also seemed that my related idea to use vapor to move a vehicle was stolen "some years before" by a guy called Richard Trevithick.

I promised myself I would never forgive him.

I still think he must certainly be a time-traveling criminal from a far away future than came to my era, stole my idea and then went back again even further to make it profit before I could

(.... this could actually be a funny plot for a book)

Derpy

10:23 AM

@Bart start from here, go forward.

You will find this very funny, trust me.

Energy Catalyzer

The Energy Catalyzer (also called E-Cat) is claimed to be a cold fusion reactor which was devised by inventor Andrea Rossi with support from physicist Sergio Focardi. An Italian patent, which received a formal but not a technical examination, describes the apparatus as a "process and equipment to obtain exothermal reactions, in particular from nickel and hydrogen". Rossi and Focardi said the device worked by infusing heated hydrogen into nickel powder, transmuting it into copper and producing excess heat. The international patent application received an unfavorable international preliminary report...

Bart

I'm already laughing at E-Cat

hichris123

10:40 AM

→ 14 messages moved to Chimney

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11:07 AM

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11:27 AM

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user315433

A Monero mod decided to start Community Promotion Ad by copying the standard meta post of this kind...

user315433

0

Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2016

It's 2016 now, and we've made some changes to the sidebar size. As such, we can now restart the Community Promotion Ads for 2016! Keep in mind, we have updated some of the guidelines compared to previously - the changes are marked in bold in the Image Requirements section. What are Community Pr...

M.A.R.

@zaq They're 2quick4u

I love the irony of the name

Shadow Wizard

11:49 AM

No, you can't do it. Only SE employee (usually CM like Grace Note) can start Community Ads on a site, as it requires special template to be added. (Please delete that "question") — Shadow Wizard 4 mins ago

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user315433

Quite honestly, I think the easiest way to solve this would be to remove voting to close entirely for all but the most popular questions. For your average... Let's say -∞ to 5 score question... it would remain open as long as there is one more privileged person interested in it than there are folks who dislike it; only once it'd managed to gain some serious traction would folks have to vote to close or reopen it. Vote-to-close was an expedient solution for a time when there were no limits on how often you could vote and folks were fixated on popular fluff... — Shog9 ♦ 11 hours ago

user315433

12:05 PM

Good idea. For low-activity tags it means no closing, period. (Since there are no gold tag badges, and nothing ever gets above 5 in score).

user315433

But in effect, this is how they operate already. A close flag is cast... it creates a review task... in a few days an overworked reviewer sees it and casts a close vote... a few more days, another reviewer reads it, shrugs and presses "skip"... several more days, the flag and vote expire and things are back to Stage 1, with a bit of time wasted by a few people.

Shadow Wizard

@Shog9 is it possible to make the community-ads tag employee-only on all meta sites, to prevent mistakes such as this?

Derpy

I say we try and hide user names and rep scores on post, just to see what that would cause....

user315433

Eh. I think when a site's mod doesn't know how the system works and is sloppy enough to copy an employee's post without removing "we did" statements... there's a bigger problem and that should be evident.

Shadow Wizard

@zaq nah, it was honest mistake IMO, that can happen to anyone, i.e. simple misunderstanding of the concept.

He thought it always exists, and just needing meta question with the proper answers.

user315433

12:23 PM

@zaq but I'd replace the restriction "score > 5" with "has > 5 up/down votes in total". This is an indicator of attention the question gets. A lot of negative attention can mean something needs to be removed, but it won't be roomba'd if there is an answer.

user315433

Unless this change is coupled to a roomba upgrade.

Magisch

Imo we need to close more questions, not less

and single high rep users shouldnt be able to open them so they can answer

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user202362

who says that we need more questions, we need more answers & better answers :p

Bart

What do we want? Answers! When do we want them? Better! ... no wait ...

user315433

12:34 PM

It's sad that folks can no longer have Careers in software industry. They just sell their Talent to get a Job.

SmokeDetector

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Derpy

points a remote control at @Bart, tries to switch to another show

The TV Guide said "Drama".

Where are the tears? Where are the rants about the downvotes?

Bart

Glasses don't have tears

But indeed, this chat has become fairly uneventful

Derpy

@Bart <Rarity>You are so.... démodé, darling. Why, let me show you the latest trends.</Rarity>

user315433

Is the underwater portion of an iceberg a metaphor for a yet-unseen problem that's larger than one might think?

user315433

12:46 PM

user315433

Generally, something ominous. This is what I think of when I see the Developer Story problem.

Shadow Wizard

@zaq problem? Why is it a problem? (Not that I'm a fan of it, but wonder what's your reasoning)

Derpy

@zaq yep, it is.

user315433

"The candidate's resume looks bright, but they have a hidden dark side that may sink your company"

user315433

Shadow Wizard

12:49 PM

@zaq where is it quoted from? Up to this moment I didn't realize it's an iceberg, lol. But it's still nice...

user315433

Not a quote, that's my reading of the Dev Story banner.

user315433

@Derpy Should I be glad that I don't recognize either of two logos?

Derpy

@zaq you mean that the company may not be happy to hire the creators of Legends Of Equestria?

@zaq yep, you should.

user315433

@zaq s/problem/banner/

Shadow Wizard

Lol

user315433

1:02 PM

Problems, problems everywhere. Too much time on Meta.

Shadow Wizard

I still wonder if Community's Developer Story is intentional joke, or kind of bug/overlook.

(Shog didn't reply)

user315433

Probably intentional, Nick Craver earlier gave it Not A Robot, so this could be another of his easter eggs.

Shadow Wizard

@zaq yeah, fits Nick.

Derpy

> `Yes, that's it,' said the Hatter with a sigh: `it's always tea-time, and we've no time to wash the things between whiles.'
`Then you keep moving round, I suppose?' said Alice.
`Exactly so,' said the Hatter: `as the things get used up.'
`But what happens when you come to the beginning again?' Alice ventured to ask.
`Suppose we change the subject,' the March Hare interrupted, yawning.

`I'm getting tired of this. I vote that @Bart tells us a story.'

Shadow Wizard

`I'm getting tired of this. I vote that @Bart sings us a song.'

Derpy

1:12 PM

`I'm getting tired of this. I vote that @Bart bring us some cupcakes.'

(yep, this one should be better)

(but it is also probably best to stop the pings here)

(at least until Bart replies)

Derpy

1:52 PM

@ShadowWizard seems the behavior is the same on the main chat site too.

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy true

Magisch

@Shog9 How do you imagine that with the single close/reopen votes? You'd have to set the rep requirement so high that 90% of current close voters would not be able to anymore

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Shog9

@Magisch would we?

Magisch

@Shog9 Imo if its single votes for close/reopen it would have to be at least 50k if not 100k if all you gate it by is rep

Pitfalls of gating by the one indicator of all the stats we track that is maybe least corresponding with ability to moderate.

Shog9

2:08 PM

The major, major flaw in vote-to-close has always been smaller tags and smaller sites

smaller sites, we lower the rep threshold

smaller tags...

Magisch

Imagine if you had the current rep limits for that "Oh, I could answer that dupe reopens"

Shog9

@Magisch what do you think is the bigger problem: dups getting reopened, or dups not getting closed at all?

Magisch

As is its damn demoralizing that you see some obviously off topic bs get 5+ answers in the time it takes to rally the close voters necessary

Shog9

ain't like folks don't answer dups today

Magisch

@Shog9 The problem would be under your system single users (some high rep users defiantly and openly don't follow the off topic rules) could negate any moderation the community puts forth

Shog9

2:09 PM

hard enough to even identify a duplicate before it gets answered in a lot of cases; waiting for five votes makes it even more likely that it'll get answered.

Magisch

imagine you have one guy who just doesnt believe in closing trash

after fgitwing enough dupes suddenly he has sole authority to reopen at will and harvest more rep that way

Shog9

@Magisch ...who gets one vote per question and only N votes per day.

worst-case, requires two people to close any post he interacts with

which is still 3 less than today

Magisch

after he posted his answer

the only way that works is that if you made it so that if any question is closed any rep gained from its answers is reverted retroactively

and thats a whole nother can of worms

@Shog9 Maybe make it that non-dupe closed Qs take 2 votes to reopen

Questions not being reopened enough isn't a problem imo. Them not being closed enough is

Shog9

@Magisch what's the point of closing?

Magisch

@Shog9 twofold

one don't waste time of potential answerers by having them re-discover that a question isn't worth answering when opening it

two to prevent people asking bad questions from getting rewarded (= answered) for their site-damaging behavior.

Shog9

2:17 PM

you missed the rather obvious one

Magisch

Basicly the idea is that bad questions without answers get closed and downvoted maybe once or twice and then disappear into the roomba

thats the ideal scenario

Shog9

closing prevents answering

Magisch

hence point 2

if anyone above X rep can reopen single handedly you may as well just not make closing effect them

Shog9

so does deletion of course

Magisch

because it doesnt in practice

Shog9

2:18 PM

we could just delete questions

Magisch

This is all hypothethicals anyways

Shog9

unlike closing, deletion blocks answering and removes all rep gains

Magisch

a change this big would take years to go through anyways

Shog9

which better satisfies your two rationales

so why do we close?

Magisch

multiple meta posts, a endless discussion from both sides, you know, the works

@Shog9 on the one off chance OP comes back and edits it into shape

which is why the delay between closing and the roomba exists

Shog9

2:20 PM

right. We close so that questions can be reopened.

Magisch

not primarily

Idk about you but about 95% of questions I close end up deleted I'd wager

Shog9

we close, rather than simply delete, because closed questions can be reopened

Magisch

right

Letting single people reopen is still dangerous though

Shog9

granted, folks who hate closing tend to ignore this fact

and folks who love closing love to ignore it as well

but the system does not really exist for its own sake

Magisch

@Shog9 surely you know this, but there are lots of high rep users who care absolutely nothing about the quality of this site and just want to answer whatever gives the most points.

And these are the people you want to entrust the site's moderation to without peer review

GrenadesPlus

2:24 PM

hey @Shog9

hichris123

But there are also the people who don't try to answer any questions and just want to "uphold" the rules. There's people on both sides of the spectrum.

Magisch

the rules are there to be upheld and have been made for a purpose

the goal should be to get as much compliance with them as possible

Shog9

Well, we're short of that right now

It's been a matter of prioritization for years - try to get rid of the worst

Which also means less reopening, because... Most of what gets closed can't be fixed

Also means lots of stuff that can be fixed doesn't get closed, doesn't get fixed

Magisch

I'm the biggest challenge facing SE right now is the torrent of awful demotivating and drowning out experts

Shog9

you?

I KNEW IT!

new plan: get Magisch

Shadow Wizard

2:36 PM

@Shog9 how much does he cost?

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Magisch

Auto correct from imo <_<

@ShadowWizard about 500 euro a month if you ask my current employer

Shadow Wizard

2:55 PM

@Magisch cheap!

Final close vote needed here, with -9 it's off the radar aka home page.

(so might stick around for long hours and even days)

Magisch

@Shog9 I'm floating like you, so you'd have a hard time catching me

Shog9

I have a net

Magisch

But you're tilted so you're slower

:P

seriously though how I know SE changes to closing things would take like 2-3 years to get implemented and discussed through :p

Shadow Wizard

Better late than never...

user315433

3:18 PM

So, it looks like changes to closing would have to be bundled with changes to deletion.

user315433

3:29 PM

Allow deletion votes to be cast on questions where the total number of upvotes on question and its answers is <= 5.

user315433

(Even if not closed.)

user315433

It's the total number of upvotes, not total score. To safeguard against mob-downvoting.

user315433

Also, disable close votes on such questions. If they are bad, and have nothing particularly notable about them, they should simply be deleted.

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user315433

3:44 PM

> There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere.

user315433

<-- not attempting to answer any questions, at least for the time being

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Magisch

4:00 PM

I'd like to answer some more questions, but when ever I get motivated and browse c I get 10-11 bad qs in and remember again that I have to clean up some more

user315433

Looks like navigation among questions is a problem, then. One shouldn't have to browse... just get a sample of a few that are probably not disgusting.

user315433

Like the "interesting" sort but within a tag or a few.

anonymous2

4:53 PM

Say, have a question for some knowledgeable person.

If you're about to cap the 200 rep and you give away a 50 rep bounty, do you cap at 200 incoming or 200 combined (250 incoming)?

anonymous2

5:10 PM

Okay, never mind, found the answer at meta.stackexchange.com/questions/117622/…

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user315433

5:50 PM

Hey let's launch the.... Nope, wait, 11th hour, have to change the domain for security reason. Dammit. There goes my day.

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on October 20, 2016 at 5:03 PM

user315433

For the record: after a full day of mocking all the new top level domains, @kylembrandt and I just had to buy one. Karma's a bitch.

Tweeted by Nick_Craver on October 20, 2016 at 5:06 PM in reply to Nick_Craver

user315433

Buying a TLD? Is that .overflow or .stack or...

@zaq .porblem

stack.overflow

!!/alive?

5:56 PM

@Undo Wow, you killed him even here

user315433

Is .idk available? Or .plzhelp

Magisch

!!/alive

SmokeDetector

@Magisch Of course

M.A.R.

@zaq .urgant

That's be a boost to the number of posts

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user315433

6:28 PM

Meta.math periodically gets concerned about "urgent" in titles, most recent incarnation meta.math.stackexchange.com/q/25134. I never saw them as a problem: it's a useful indication of what kind of question it is. Suppressing it would suppress information.

M.A.R.

@zaq Well, that's another POV I guess.

user315433

When a site gets 600+ questions per day, one tends to like whatever it is that helps in triaging questions without opening them.

M.A.R.

I guess you either fix all the titles, or fix none.

Being left in the middle does waste some time.

Of the by-standers, and the editors.

Shivers

I thought of a twisted reality where chem also gets that many questions.

user315433

I'd rather fix things that are worth fixing, and delete the rest.

M.A.R.

My beloved site . . .

@zaq You're one side of the spectrum, and the guy that never deletes for whatever reason is the other. That's why the site works. None of you are more than a voice. The only problem here is that the majority is shifted towards the no-delete thing, which is why a lot of people on, say, chem or phys, think of math.SE as a wasteland. Including myself.

user315433

6:35 PM

I'm not planted at one point of the spectrum... In particular, I began to favor implicit deletion over explicit actions.

user315433

If a question never gets an answer, it's as good as closed. If in addition, it never gets read after a day or two, it's as good as deleted.

user315433

SE had good ideas about reducing visibility of certain questions, but never went beyond the homepage of one site. And the homepage is totally not what I look at, so that was disappointing.

hichris123

7:18 PM

105

Q: What should the system be deleting automatically that it already isn't?

So this question got me thinking... We have several automatic processes in place for cleaning up cruft, deleting questions that are very unlikely to help anyone else. They're fairly conservative though; an awful lot of lousy questions hang around much longer, occasionally cropping up to annoy fo...

discussion deleted-questions automatic-deletion se-quality-project

user315433

Number_of_times_this_post_was_linked++

hichris123

Huh, there's also this one:

75

Q: We should clean up posts that should be improved but haven't been and won't be

It's been about 5 months since we started testing Triage. There've been a fair number of hiccups, and there's still plenty of work to be done refining the criteria, but at this point I think the process is working pretty well: with over 1800 questions reviewed every day on average (over 20% of al...

feature-request review triage automatic-deletion

user315433

That was over-reaching, it never had a chance.

hichris123

I upvoted it apparently but yet I have no recollection of that post.

user315433

That was back when Triage seemed relevant; i.e., long ago

user315433

7:21 PM

Deleting posts just because some reviewers clicked "needs improvement/editing" (or whatever that button is called nowadays), when their deity only knows what they meant by that...

user315433

Maybe they meant the author writes i in lowercase.

hichris123

Triage can probably help. It's just a question of how much and is it worth the effort.

Maybe the rep restriction should've been 500-2000. That way higher rep users didn't waste their time.

user315433

It's kind of hard to decide whether a post is answerable when you don't work with the technology involved. Yeah, there's skip. But Triage only makes sense when it's fast. If reviewers are waiting for an expert in farbizzle.js to show up, might as well drop the reviewing. Of course in reality they don't.

user315433

I could honestly see replacing "First Posts" with Triage on most sites. Having both of them is a waste of folks' time though. — Shog9 ♦ 18 hours ago

hichris123

@zaq But some posts are just easily detectible as not enough info, off-topic, etc. Give two options: should be closed or meh.

user315433

7:30 PM

Yes, reroute the middle button to Looks OK (just to reduce resistance to clicking OK on a "meh" post). Ditch the sad HIQ.

user315433

But that's still a lot of reviewing, and the gain is still unclear because what do I need the homepage for?

user315433

Just fishing for things to close in a stream of questions? Thanks, got better things to do.

hichris123

I'd almost go as far as to say some number of should be closed -> automatically closed. Or gives an automatic downvote or something like that.

user315433

I can give downvotes without a review queue...

hichris123

Other people think it's mean though so they don't. But the former makes more sense to me: if x people think it's bad, just make it so it disappears quickly.

user315433

7:40 PM

When Google sees someone opening a page from search results and quickly closing it without interaction (coming back), they take it as a -1 for the page.

user315433

Visitors don't need to vote up, down, or sideways.... they still get directed to places they want.

hichris123

That requires visitors to actually find it though. Which, for a decent amount of posts, they probably will only do once in a blue moon...

M.A.R.

I hadn't realized how much I enjoy you two talking meta stuff. Go on

user315433

never mind, was a temporary glitch

user315433

@hichris123 But the bad part is "meh". The thing that drains out the will to participate is not spam or outrageously off-topic posts... it's a thousand paper cuts, inflicted by someone's incompetence or desperation. Of which there is always more than one can handle.

user315433

7:54 PM

Speaking of incompetence and desperation, I have a faculty meeting to attend. cya

hichris123

@zaq Hmm, fair. But then couple that with some roomba task that deletes meh questions with little activity...

Maybe? I don't know, that might just stop some of the pain.

user202362

8:57 PM

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: Install a printer without physically connecting it? by Luckas Benjamin on superuser.com

user335633

9:22 PM

Just occurred to me, that when I posted an opinion/suggestion (as an answer), that I was out of line for presuming to make any suggestion - mainly due to me being here for a very short period of time (coupled with very low rep). Apologies for that!

rene

9:33 PM

Ok, sure ... don't let it happen again ???? ...

user202362

ultimate level for tr011s - the 1337 level, when mods and CMs go around you ...

user315433

10:00 PM

user315433

The coffee steam is the best part. The angle between monitors seems excessive, unless one is trying to set up some VR experience on the cheap.

user202362

Red signals passion, love ... and bloodshed. The red implies the ferocity the software engineer would hit the keyboard after drinking it!

user202362

also such a thick and short keyboard

Nick Alexeev

10:40 PM

I'm inclined to migrate this to meta.SE .

1

Q: Please add  to delimiters for inline MathJax

(see also Inline LaTeX doesn't seem to work) I see that this site uses the nonstandard \$ delimiters to MathJax rather than $ and $ which are used in most other sites. Since MathJax allows multiple delimiters, and asymmetrical delimiters are more robust, could you add these? syntax as per htt...

feature-request mathjax

user315433

10:59 PM

For one thing, \$ \$ is specific to Electrical Engineering

hichris123

For another, I've never ever seen $ $ on any SE site.

user315433

But the objection to proposal is likely to be SE-wide. The characters [ ] ( ) have a special meaning in Markdown; formatting of links. Therefore, one must be able to enter them so that they are understood literally; in Markdown this means escaping by \: \[ \] . And this would directly clash with the proposal.

user315433

@hichris123 It's the "right" way to do inline LaTeX formulas. But... not so often followed.

hichris123

Ah. So more of a TeX thing than a MathJax thing?

user315433

In LaTeX, $$ ... $$ are deprecated in favor of [ .. ]. I certainly avoid $$ .. $$ there. I can't be bothered to enter $...$ though, too much typing.

user315433

11:03 PM

@hichris123 LaTeX thing, not TeX thing.  don't exist in TeX, they were added by LaTeX.

hichris123

Shows you how much I know about all of that...

user315433

Well, you're less than half the age of TeX, so pass granted.

hichris123

Some people like Doorknob (who is unpingable) use TeX/LaTeX for papers, so...

user315433

It's rare that someone would encounter an actual TeX document these days. It's nearly always LaTeX. But then people start using them as synonyms, etc.

hichris123

Why would you even use TeX now adays? Stuck in your old ways?

user315433

11:10 PM

As opposed to...

user315433

TeX is still alive, as the lower-level thing that LaTeX and other things like ConTeXt wrap around.

user315433

It's just that using plain TeX isn't practical for complex documents. No automatic enumeration of chapters/sections/formulas/etc, all this stuff appeared later in LaTeX.

hichris123

Oh, I see.

user315433

BTW I'm currently grading homework that's submitted online in LaTeX. And is graded by me editing in the notes and grades...

hichris123

We finally use Canvas for an LMS. Although it's not great in the first place...

user315433

11:40 PM

I use our CMS (Blackboard) for three things: posting grades, collecting/grading homework that's not in LaTeX (e.g., Matlab scripts), and sending classroster email. A hundred other features are mostly worthless. And even the email is borked, the text-entering box does some weird invisible character insertions for no good reason, breaking links in emails. Or maybe HTML formatting with <span>, same effect.

user315433

@SmokeDetector notspam

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