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6:00 PM
I do love me some midwest prog-rock
@JeffAtwood A large majority of sites use a white background with a contrasting color for text. I like Jin's design, but perhaps the blackboard approach isn't .. well .. working?
If I wasn't maintaining my own reskin, maybe...
Wait, what's going on?
Hi again! :)
6:01 PM
I have a few eye problems, and that design does hurt a little
@TimPost it works, it's just that white-on-black vs. black-on-white is a religious issue
@TimStone Not a t-shirt giveaway, that's for sure. And I'm not just saying that to eliminate competition. For something that doesn't exist. Nope, nope, nope.
You'll recall me grabbing other people's kids at the arcade?
this Vim vs. Emacs thing, look into it!
is an expert web designer
6:02 PM
Every room I create on Chat.SE has the SO logo. Is this the supposed behavior?
@TimPost I totally support an alternative, in the form of the aforementioned user script
@JeffAtwood - Is it cheating to ask for an unminified all.css from SO?
@Nyuszika7H It looks right to me, at least in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/26/unix-and-linux
@JeffAtwood What I'm saying is, people who appreciate white on black can use black on white, but not the opposite.
@PopularDemand Now I'm even more curious, since it's apparently t-shirt worthy :P
6:03 PM
@Moshe we use less.css with a base so it's .. complicated
I'm just speaking from the context of having very recent problems with my sight.
@TimStone He's looking for volunteers to write a userscript that would convert any SE site to a minimalist black-on-white layout.
@MichaelMrozek edited my message
@JeffAtwood Ah ok. So I guess Inspector will have to do.
I will learn Greasemonkey for this.
6:04 PM
@Nyuszika7H Ah. IIRC it uses whichever site your account is currently associated with. I have a out to let the user choose on the create page
@PopularDemand Ah, that seems easy enough. I won't ruin your fun. :P
@TimStone Based on YiJiang's past comments, I'm not so sure. Also,
@JeffAtwood - We essentially want a grayscale SO?
7 mins ago, by Jeff Atwood
it's not all or nothing.. happy to t-shirt anyone who assists significantly as well
@MichaelMrozek So if I copy my SU profile to all accounts, can I open a chat room with the SU logo?
6:04 PM
I found an unconverted sketchy all.css
Missed breakfast. Gotta go find lunch.
@Nyuszika7H Go to chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/26/unix-and-linux, click "edit" next to "parent user", and choose a new site, and any rooms you make will be associated with that site
@JeffAtwood Thanks.
I think it suddenly hits home when you realize you can't see certain things that you did last month.
@TimPost again, I totally support the user script
6:06 PM
@MichaelMrozek ah ok :)
@Jeff - Should you create a question on MSO, I'll gladly toss in 500 rep
@JeffAtwood Nice to see you there! :)
Speaking of userscripts, hopefully I can get the improved comment auto-complete out the door tonight, and the script posted on StackApps, hooray.
@JeffAtwood Presumably there will be something in /faq or /about telling people how to use it?
CSS? You should totally drop that and use jQuery
$("link[rel=stylesheet]").attr("href", "http://meta.stackoverflow.com/content/stackoverflowmeta/all.css")
6:08 PM
probably better to use sketchy there @badp
since that's "the way it was"
var oldTheme = "stackoverflowmeta";
var newTheme = "photometa";
var stylesheet = $("link[rel=stylesheet]");
var href = stylesheet.attr("href");
var logo = $("#hlogo a");
var background = logo.css("background-image");
eh, Sketchy isn't really "clean"
hmm @badp brings up a good point -- perhaps rather than a script with a bunch of embedded styles, we should officially maintain the "clean" css and support switching to it as specified
6:09 PM
The logo handling is meh.
perhaps if you guys put together the clean css we can host it
@JeffAtwood I think switching is the better idea.
meaning, as close as you can get to de-styled without everything looking, er, terrible
I'm working on the CSS now.
@JeffAtwood Let me click a d*** button, not install something
6:11 PM
@TimPost it's really easy, it is basically clicking a damn button (in Chrome at least). See stackapps.com/tags/script/info
it's like 3 clicks
The logo is the only thing stopping it from being a totally switchable-to-anything thing. And even a "clean" css won't totally fix that.
ok, so you guys and gals decide what makes sense and @RebeccaChernoff will coordinate
Hahah, lucky you @RebeccaChernoff :p
6:12 PM
Heck someone could just take the jQuery ^^^^ and make it general with a dropdown to select the site you want to use as the theme...If not for that darn logo.
@JeffAtwood Do you mind if I'm blunt?
what's the name of the Sketchy CSS?
As a person who is experiencing recent issues with vision?
@RebeccaChernoff Canvas!
@JeffAtwood "Does this page cause you physical pain? Just follow these five steps" is second to the greatest F*** you on the internet: "We don't like your country, you can't watch this video, go away .."
@JeffAtwood Just use a style switcher :)
6:15 PM
You can even pull the list of sites from the api for the dropdown select (;
Either one, I close the tab.
@TimPost Wait, what? You can still watch the video.
Also having a separate watered down "low-fi" version of a site is common, if not required by law
@badp I know, I can set up a SOCKS proxy to any one of four data centers easily. I'm just sayin.
A big "F*** YOU" would be "you know, the CSS of the site is publicly available, go ahead and change it for yourself" (like the "it's FOSS, bi***" argument)
@badp - In SE Asia, you'd be amazed at what we can't get to without knowing how TCP/IP works.
6:18 PM
I like the euphemism for "China" :)
@badp Sorry, I just can't help it.
@badp I'm in The Philippines
@TimPost eh, I know the language standards are higher here; sorry.
'Morning, all. Discussing the physically painful theme on Gaming, were you?
@Shog9 Not quite.
@badp, @ChrisF, anyone using answers.onstartups: have y'all seen the onstartups portal not found error this week?
6:19 PM
@Shog9 Actually no, Physics'.
@Shog9 Not yet, currently Physics
@RebeccaChernoff I don't really visit the site much, let me try
ah, well. Wake me when you move on to dissin' Gaming.
I have no issue now.
@Shog9 Ok.
6:21 PM
@Shog9 I don't like it either ;)
Physics and Gaming are possibly my two favorite themes, so apparently I'm backwards
@badp Yeah, but I thought you didn't like it because the text was too readable...
@Shog9 the problem is you're using Windows
that font is bad when rendered by Windows.
OOH! Physics is beautiful! I want to spend time on that site now, even though I'm a physics dunce, just to be near that theme
same can be done with chat :P
6:23 PM
I want to watch the sunset with it, take it to bed and snuggle all night long. Then wake up and cook it breakfast.
@Shog9 Congratulations, Newton would be proud. You've just turned an Apple into Physics.
@TimPost Well, Newton did that. He turned an apple into Physics.
brb, crashing X
plugs keyboard in
@Moshe I was being sardonic.
Heh, the tag bubble actually looks kind of at home on Physics.
6:24 PM
@badp True. Fortunately, almost no games run on Windows.
@TimStone I was waiting for that, but I expected 'Pinball'
misses pinball
Who on Earth would know how to play Hearts if not for Windows?
6:26 PM
@TimPost Best. Windows. Game. Ever.
I still don't know how to play Hearts.
@PopularDemand I know how to use a hex editor because of Hearts for Windows.
@PopularDemand The world does not know how to play spades due to higher ups at Microsoft fearing riots.
@JeffAtwood - I can't style the moderator stuff, btw, since I can't see it. ;)
@TimPost Bah, Hearts is a gateway game, and they know it. Once you learn it, you move on to Spades, then Bridge....
6:27 PM
@Moshe - I'm starring that for honesty.
@Shog9 Where's the connection there?
@PopularDemand funny, I moved on to Gin. The liquor, not the card game.
Does "Clean" mean that ads are set to display: none? :P
@TimPost Thanks, bows
@PopularDemand Used it to change the player names on Win3.11... Don't remember why anymore though.
@PopularDemand and for the seriously addicted, there is canasta
6:29 PM
@TimPost I had a friend try to teach me canasta once. Didn't go well.
@PopularDemand That's because you should never play canasta with friends :)
One last thing @JeffAtwood, the stylesheet you posted has broken styling for the top buttons apparently:
Any game played with two decks will always result in "You know, you annoy me when you do [this]". Friends don't play canasta with friends.
@TimPost If you say so. I just meant the rules confused me.
(Yes, I added the gray)
6:32 PM
@Moshe Yep, that's basically how 40% of our visitors see it. How did you know?
The Sketchy theme uses background images for the top buttons, and shifts the text out of view to accommodate that.
@TimStone Ohh
I'll assume the buttons then, and make my own colors. Whoever takes this to the next step can recolor the images later.
@TimStone Notice the broken drop shadow though?
The text colour of the top bar in the Sketchy theme is light blue.
(I assume that's what you're talking about)
See the drop shadow in my screenshot, looks a bit off there
I'm testing in Safari, comparing with the original in Chrome
6:38 PM
I can't wait until the designers companies hire realize that people actually want to use, not just behold, any given site.
@TimPost Indeed. But fancy sites are still awesome, IMHO You'd probably bug out if you saw this: hayon2010.com
@Moshe Lets fire up team viewer and let you view them from here :)
@TimPost Hrm? ok. not now though. I'm working
Can we do it in a bit?
@Moshe Standing invitation for next week :)
6:41 PM
@Moshe My Skype ID is on my profile, feel free to add me
@TimPost Sure.
@TimPost Don't have Skype. I have multiple gmail accounts though.
@Moshe (or anyone else) [email protected]
added to google talk
I'm quite good at ignoring people when I'm busy, and that address is on the front page of my site.
It's not like it's a secret :)
BRB, My favorite BBQ vendor just opened up, I smell the kebabs hitting the grill
wut? Tim Post is tinkertim? I remember tinkertim!
6:46 PM
@Shog9 For better or worse, that's me :)
@TimPost Where are you, where you can smell your barbecue guy opening for business?
@TimStone - Where does the red background come from on the answer count boxes? I couldn't find it.
The smell comes from Libertad Street, my window is a few meters from it.
@TimPost Okay, that was what I meant.
6:48 PM
@Moshe .unanswered ?
yea, it just has a single color rule
unless, I have an old version of the file
A causal stroll down Libertad exposes you to 100+ street vendors, but only one uses cumin in the BBQ mix, and I can smell it.
Yes, because again, Sketchy uses background images here.
SO does not, and has a background colour set.
I've been here for six years, you get used to certain things :) BRB, I'm hungry
Wait, what's sketchy? The beta style?
6:49 PM
Yes, I assume that's the stylesheet you're using based on what you're seeing.
You appear to be overlaying it on top of the SO stylesheet.
Now I'm imagining an elaborate scheme wherein restaurateurs pay contractors to vent their delicious, delicious exhaust into office buildings.
@TimStone I am trying to for now. Simplest way to test. Browser's user style
@TimStone the SO minified stylesheet has original class names, so I can still search it, yes?
Yeah, minified CSS just has the whitespace removed.
6:52 PM
Ok, gonna grab that then.
aw, no fair - KatieK left chat before posting about IE6. My IE6 comments are waaay more appropriate for chat.
@popular I can add the precise mathematical unambigous criteria of the Outspoken badge to the list if you want it :)
Not sure if that's more helpful
I seem to have lost 15 points, but the action isn't showing up in my "mail box". How can I find out why I lost these points?
@jsumners Somebody probably unaccepted one of your answers
@MichaelMrozek, still I would like to see why so that I know how to improve my answers.
6:58 PM
But I have no indication as to which one it was that has been unaccepted.
I was just crushed between two very morbidly obese entities. I now know how butter feels.
Please, be kind to butter.
Q: Please show us when we lose an accepted answer

cletusSometimes (like today) I see that an answer of mine that had been accepted is no longer the accepted answer. Thing is, I have absolutely no idea which one and I'd really like to see which one to satisfy my curiosity. Please add that to recent history or something.

Q: Reputation notification of deselected answer?

TroggyThis was never an issue before, but now I notice it now that I have many answers accepted as the "accepted answer". We receive +15 rep for an acceptance. We receive notification in our reputation tab about "acc +15". However, when someone de-selects the answer, our rep decreases accordingly, bu...

Oh, and why not...
Q: Notification when my answer is unaccepted?

fbreretoI just lost some reputation, presumably because someone changed their selected answer from mine to someone else's. Can these losses of reputation be noted on my reputation page similar to the other ways in which my reputation fluctuates? I'd like to figure out which answer was unaccepted so I can...

@TimStone - Why must I use !important to override everything?
@Shog9, thank you.
7:03 PM
@Moshe Because it's not important
@jsumners I can assure you nothing 'fishy' is going on :)
@Shog9 Erm, no.
That's how the userstyle works, which is why that ends up being a pretty annoying way to do things.
It's disappointing that this issue is so old and not resolved.
@jsumners I checked all your posts marked accepted in the last data dump (9 Feb), and they're all still accepted, so whichever answer it was has been posted since then
7:04 PM
@TimStone So can I write a userscript to replace the main stylesheet with my own, which will fix the need for !important?
@TimPost, I didn't think that there is. But how am I supposed to learn why if I have no idea where the loss occurred?
@jsumners It's... Less important than it seems. I'm sure it'll get fixed eventually.
Yes, I think @RebeccaChernoff even already wrote that code somewhere above.
@RebeccaChernoff - ping!
@Shog9 I always assumed it was silently ignored to prevent retaliatory down votes.
7:05 PM
Do you have JS code to replace a stylesheet with my own?
I just save /reputation every now and then to do diffs. :P
@jsumners a few of your recent answers were either migrated or deleted.
I'd like to not have to add !important to every line of CSS.
@Moshe ...scroll up, or meh I'll find it for you. >_<
56 mins ago, by Rebecca Chernoff
var oldTheme = "stackoverflowmeta";
var newTheme = "photometa";
var stylesheet = $("link[rel=stylesheet]");
var href = stylesheet.attr("href");
var logo = $("#hlogo a");
var background = logo.css("background-image");
7:06 PM
@jsumners look here: stackoverflow.com/reputation
@RebeccaChernoff Oh, that.
@TimStone That's not a bad rationale!
@RebeccaChernoff So I just roll that into a .user.js file and install it? Well, i need to host it somewhere obviously and update the script to load that.
@jsumners That is a blow by blow of every post that contributed to your reputation. Often, questions get closed, deleted or migrated
7:08 PM
@Moshe Take 5 minutes and think about it instead of just firing off questions. (:
@TimStone You should totally add that as an answer to one of those questions I linked to.
@RebeccaChernoff Will do. I really have to work on that.
sighs at self
Work first, Meta later. ;)
@jsumners And sometimes, a re-calculation of your reputation is triggered. Don't fret it
Don't deleted posts not show up on /reputation?
7:10 PM
function changeCSS(siteName) {
    siteName = siteName
        .replace('SO', 'stackoverflow')
        .replace('MSO', 'stackoverflowmeta')
        .replace('SU', 'superuser')
        .replace('SF', 'serverfault')
        .replace(/^meta([a-z]+)/, '$1meta');

    $('link[rel=stylesheet]').attr('href', 'http://sstatic.net/' + siteName + '/all.css);
Thank you for the help folks.
@MichaelMrozek No, deleted posts don't not fail to show up on /reputation.
@Shog9 You're especially unhelpful today
@MichaelMrozek It's Friday.
7:16 PM
@Moshe You'll need some magic inject code:
function inject() {
	for (var i = 0; i < arguments.length; i++) {
		if (typeof arguments[i] === 'function') {
			var script = document.createElement('script');
			script.textContent = '('+ arguments[i].toString() +')(jQuery);';

then place your code inside inject(function($) { [code] });
@Nyuszika7H kinda. But want to replace the stylesheet, not add it to the document, otherwise I'll still n eed !important all over the place.
What happens if you combine a velociraptor with a yeti?
Do you get a yetiraptor?
The Yeti or Abominable Snowman is an ape-like cryptid said to inhabit the Himalayan region of Nepal, India and Tibet. The names Yeti and Meh-Teh are commonly used by the people indigenous to the region, and are part of their history and mythology. Stories of the Yeti first emerged as a facet of Western popular culture in the 19th century. The scientific community generally regards the Yeti as a legend, given the lack of conclusive evidence, yet it remains one of the most famous creatures of cryptozoology. The Yeti may be considered a sort of parallel to the Bigfoot of North America. Et...
Said to. Like it doesn't exist. We all know the Yeti is a real creature. Disney has one, so they must be real. Right?
7:24 PM
@ircmaxell Link to yetis never existing or it did not happen
lol, wait what?
@TimStone :
/ ==UserScript==
// @name	Stylesheet Switcher
// @namespace	mosheberman.com
// @description   Load a stylesheet into a website
// @include       *
// ==/UserScript==

var pathToStylesheet ="http://mosheberman.com/test.css";

$(document).ready(function() {
	return false;
shouldn't that work?
1. You can't access jQuery in the userscript
2. You don't need jQuery
@TimStone - Okay, so what should I do there instead?
hang on...
Wait, how do i wait for DOM ready than?
7:34 PM
you don't really have to.
@Shog9 So my script will just know when to insert itself into the page?
Greasemonkey always waits to inject your script 'til the page (or at least the DOM) has loaded.
Maybe that's a bit too radical
Holy Cr@p!
@ircmaxell I want whatever software made that visualization
7:47 PM
I forget what it was, I've used it before tho
function loaded(){
	var linkElements = document.getElementsByTagName("link");

	for(var i=0; i<linkElements.length; i++){
		if(linkElements[i].getAttribute("rel") == "stylesheet"){
			linkElements[i].href = pathToStyleSheet;
			alert("href:" + linkElements[i].href);
Is that right?
@MichaelMrozek Congrats
Suddenly I start questioning the sanity of my approach
@badp - If I could figure out this userscript thing to load the stylesheet, I'd have something nice in B&W.
7:57 PM
This isn't just B&W, this is text only :P
I know.
after some :before and :after abuse
But @badp do you know any of this userscript stuff?
When it is Friday, I miss Welbog.
not really
8:02 PM
@badp what's that? A chrome extension?
@drachenstern - around?
@TheRenamedException - around?
@Moshe overwhelmed
// ==UserScript==
// @name	Stylesheet Switcher
// @namespace	mosheberman.com
// @description   Load a stylesheet into a website
// @version
// @include       *
// ==/UserScript==

var pathToStylesheet ="http://mosheberman.com/test.css";

window.onload = loaded();

function loaded(){
	var linkElements = document.getElementsByTagName("link");

	if(linkElements.length > 0){

		for(var i=0; i>linkElements.length; i++){

			if(linkElements[i].getAttribute("rel").toString() == "stylesheet"){
> Status: away - busy with work. Will pop in to the Tavern later
8:09 PM
@TheRenamedException ok, good luck then.
@TheRenamedException Just needed some eyes on this script to explain why it won't work.
> Status: aimless
@DanGrossman Wanna help?
Oh, how does the status script work? does it work?
I don't have it
oh ok
8:12 PM
@DanGrossman - You know JS?
is struggling
I guess
I have no way to help debug a user script
I have never used a user script let alone written one
Are there any blatant syntax errors in my posted code?
not that i see
> for(var i=0; i>linkElements.length; i++){
your loop won't ever run
0 > # ? false
I need a good audiobook to listen to in the car
can't really read a programming book as an audio book, unfortunately
"for left-parentheses var i in x right-parentheses left curly brace..."
8:19 PM
@DanGrossman - thanks.
@Moshe My code actually replaces the old stylesheet.
Attention: I have a userscript that will load a replacement stylesheet. It works sans jQuery and right now needs work, but it functions. Now to test a new CSS file on SO.
Hi again! :)
@Nyuszika7H - As does mine.
stackoverflow will have a big red border and no other styles.
at your own risk
@Moshe 404 Not Found
8:22 PM
@Nyuszika7H really?
Click the link, works in userscript-land only. (Chrome/FF/Hacked Safari)
@Moshe Interesting, it installs when I click on the link.
@Nyuszika7H It should load my stylesheet into stackoverflow now. You'll see subtle differences for now.
@Moshe Some images are removed and that's all.
Q: PHP OOP CURL proxy error

IsisHello. <?php class Isis_Expl { const USERAGENT = 'Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ru; rv: Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13'; public static $ch; public static $proxyType; public static $proxy; public static $postFields; public static $cookie; publi...

^^ Has open proxy info in the edit history
@Nyuszika7H I noticed the lack of images, but there's more. Look at the Answered boxes. Some are gray now.
8:26 PM
@Moshe yeah
That's my stylesheet.
okay 1st, fixing those relative image paths
"Use the luffa!"
(For some reason, I have the "Shiny Suds" song stuck in my head. Stupid allergies.)
@TimStone - There are inconsistencies in the stylesheet.
absolute paths mixed with relative paths
@TimStone - What's the path to the sprites file?
got it
8:54 PM
@balpha It would satisfy my curiosity.
Q: I would like to make a local copy of the Internet. How should I proceed?

MaxI would like to make a local copy of the Internet so that if I am offline, I am still able to retrieve the information that I need. I am on OS/X. I have tried: curl * But it does not work. I do not understand the instructions for wget. Can anyone help?

7 upvotes. SO is really depressing sometimes
Q: What to do with old hard drives?

calibanI have over 100+ old hard drives, ranging from 100MB Quantums to 200GB WDs, most of them PATA, some SATA. Most still working. The squirrel mentality runs in my family - hoard everything, discard nothing. Thus, and this is a relevant question - any suggestions on how to put these drives to use (a...

user image

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