Tavern on the Meta

12:00 AM

@soup You should tweet that to Joel. Maybe he'll respond.

As far as training for chat flags, the specific chat message is rarely relevant to the room specifically, it'd be better to get validated-and-invalidated per-room counts

also my bot is pretty crap, ChatExchange can do that if you specify the event type

user248725

@Quill I can't install Python 2 on my system, and the Python 3 port errors out when I follow the installation instructions.

Quill

okay

user248725

Is your bt written in Python 3?

Quill

JavaScript, the language of gods

2

user248725

12:10 AM

...Is it a userscript?

Quill

No, it's a node project

user248725

Whoops never mind plane is taking off bye

Quill

Wait who starred that, I don't see bjb in the user list

user315433

SO has too many queues. A bunch of problems would be solved by eliminating the big one.

user315433

Outrageously bad things would get closed anyway, through users stumbling on them. Duplicates can get closed by OP, or left as they are, with a comment linking the posts.

user315433

12:21 AM

Unanswerably vague questions can be downvoted and left for Roomba.

user315433

What is CV review for, then?

Quill

merging queues feels like you're doing a lot more work (even though it would be about the same)

user315433

I'm not proposing merging. Just drop CV queue from SO; a lot of stress goes away, and a lot of time can be reclaimed for something useful.

user315433

NE election update: question collection fell short of a riot

Jon Ericson

@soup Preach it, brother.

user315433

12:30 AM

I remember that. Slightly different in that I'm in favor of keeping close votes (and some close flags).

user315433

Flags are useful for duplicates - generating a comment that puts a relevant question in Linked is already something. And there is a prompt for OP to confirm or deny.

user315433

Hm, there would be nothing to do with other close flags, though. Those can go away.

Jon Ericson

Yeah. I don't know if I actually think close voting is a waste. However:

> But maybe it's time we stopped thinking of closing as our only defence against poor questions.

user315433

The blog post linked from the question appears to call me a Nazi. :/

JamesENL

Morning

Quill

12:42 AM

Hmm, I wonder how well the Town Hall discussion model would work for individual sites

Ignoring the obvious "mods don't want to see timeouts and stuff spamming up their mod notifications"

user202362

I wonder if any site could potentially becoming hoarder site ... like if you don't take out all the unwanted stuff.

user315433

Hi @MichaelStum, welcome to your new role at SO!

user315433

May I interest you in a bunch of bug reports? (jk)

Quill

12:59 AM

Welcome to the Tavern, @MichaelStum

Michael Stum

@soup Thanks :) Don't worry, I'll have plenty of those on my plate

Quill

Second time I've been logged out of chat in 20 minutes.. ;-;

user315433

I get kicked out of rooms on semi-regular basis, both here and CHQ.

user202362

@Quill Don't you feel, that sometimes, you could just be a guinea pig on certain sites? :p

user202362

here, here, piglet :p

Quill

1:05 AM

If guinea pig is defined as a user of code with bugs, then any user is essentially a guinea pig, unless you wrote the code

user202362

I become guinea pig for my own code all the times

user202362

it's called white box testing

user202362

being a guinea pig is part of job description for being a software developer/engineer

Jon Ericson

@Telkitty I did once propose a Framed Garbage site on Area 51. I don't think Robert was amused. ;-)

Quill

Did he close it as a duplicate of LifeHacks?

Jon Ericson

1:10 AM

Waaaaaay before Lifehacks. This was 4 years ago.

user202362

were you a CM 4 years ago?

Quill

ah, that kinda kills the joke

Jon Ericson

@Telkitty Nope. I wasn't even much of an SO user at that point.

user202362

CM is a bad abbreviation, it could easily be mistaken as Cake Maker

Jon Ericson

That would be a baker. We're secretly candlestick makers.

user202362

1:13 AM

Candy maker!

user202362

everyone on stackoverflow gets a candy!

hichris123

@soup In CHQ I keep getting kicked out to the rooms list about once/day.

128

Q: The problem with extrinsic motivation

TL;DR: Stack Exchange favors standard, fast, and complete answers at the expense of novel, creative, and excellent answers. This bias results directly from reputation ratings, badges and other extrinsic motivations, which form the core of the system and can not be removed. Therefor, the quality o...

user202362

I have not been kicked out from any chat for ages

user202362

But I have been having other scarier experiences

user202362

1:28 AM

internet is an unsafe place

SmokeDetector

2:15 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps answer, offensive answer detected: LeBlanc Combos? by BigDickBandito on gaming.stackexchange.com …

Quill

sd rude

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: Scales and Ascending/Descending differences by Axel Rose on music.stackexchange.com …

JamesENL

sd k

Quill

2:30 AM

sd rude as hell

user248725

3:16 AM

No kidding

hichris123

3:28 AM

It seems that the VLQ option is gone for answers older than 7 days. — Pang 1 hour ago

This does seem to be the case. Was there any meta post about this?

Shadow Wizard

3:52 AM

@bjb568isnotapebble for you. I'm sure many people think this same thing towards many MSE memes when seeing them used.

bjb568 is not a pebble

MSE isn't a main SE site. Content on main SE sites should be curt and devoid of fluff.

user202362

I am still question banned on MSE

Quill

Speaking of memes, PPCG locked their meta post on memes with a historic lock

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Offensive answer detected: What's the difference between "jelly" and "jam"? by Anonymous on english.stackexchange.com …

Quill

4:08 AM

sd rude

SmokeDetector

4:35 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Pattern-matching website in answer, blacklisted user: how to restore windows 7 without losing data by Naveed Butt on superuser.com …

SmokeDetector

4:48 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title: www.chirbit.com/testadroxbuy by georgima on gaming.stackexchange.com …

JamesENL

sd 2k

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: A Skin Care Product Delivers by jasionhayward on askubuntu.com (@kos) …

[ SmokeDetector ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: cleanserenewnorway.com/active-cleanse-plus/ by garrytbowman on workplace.stackexchange.com …

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: When Should You Start Benefits Of Anti Aging Skin Emulsion? by Michafent on drupal.stackexchange.com …

user315433

5:10 AM

@hichris123 Not just for answers, for questions too. We've discussed it here a while ago...

user315433

May 6 at 18:14, by Meta

Do VLQ flags on questions that are more than a week old serve any purpose?

user315433

(I tested on Math to avoid confusion with SO-only VLQ policies)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body: Electra Hair Brush Reviews by loocmei on workplace.stackexchange.com …

Shog9

5:32 AM

41

Q: Fixing the disconnect between VLQ and Triage

tl;dr; When flagging questions as VLQ, we're inadvertently sending too much noise to the moderators to handle. Over the past year, the reviewers here on Stack Overflow have shown themselves able to accurately sift through the majority of these flags, but due to various assumptions, the system sti...

discussion flags low-quality-posts triage

JamesENL

sd k

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in answer: Connect to server using SFTP and public ssh key using FileZilla on Windows by Lipika Dhal on superuser.com …

Quill

@Shog9 Are you going to write up an answer, or is it a "bluefeet and shog special"?

JamesENL

sd k

Quill

5:56 AM

Hmm, I got invited to a jobs networking event... maybe I ought to go

JamesENL

Quill

> "Speed dating for jobs"

I don't think my employer would take kindly if I took a day off for that

abc.net.au/news/2016-05-23/…

Yeah... no.

Fiksdal

Hi, I need help finding a dupe

Quill

What's the question?

Fiksdal

Let's say you see a question with multiple answers. You think all the answers are great, but on the bottom there's a truly excellent answer that you want to rise to the top. You obviously upvote that answer. Under normal circumstances the other anwers would have also clearly deserved upvotes. But in this case you don't vote for them because you don't want them to compete with the excellent answer at the bottom. Is that consider good etiquette?

I wanted to ask this in Meta, but I'm sure it's been discussed before.

Quill

6:10 AM

CC @ShadowWizard

Etiquette doesn't really matter, votes are personal. With that said, it probably has been asked before

Fiksdal

Haha, yeah, he's the master

He always finds the dupes

Right... Well, I think downvoting the great answers would probably be bad behavior, if nothing else?

Shog9

0

A: Unable to flag as 'very-low-quality' (for answers)

bluefeet's been doing a bit of analysis and soul-searching with regard to the Very Low Quality flag lately: When flagging questions as VLQ, we're inadvertently sending too much noise to the moderators to handle. ... Problem 1: Currently, when a question is older than 7 days and it recei...

Quill

> Kudos to Michael Stum for implementing this change - also, please join me in welcoming him to the core development team!

Fast... nice

user315433

Also nice to see a developer being hired to work on the Q&A.

Quill

whatever happened to the "Your choice of first bug to fix thing"?

user202362

6:24 AM

chef is just chief without ego ('i') - Telkitty™

user315433

We're gonna just mark all remaining inbox messages "read" for this little event and call it done. — Shog9 ♦ 14 hours ago

user315433

^ no more ToS change notifications for slow readers.

Shog9

still caught 5500+ readers on Monday. Which was a drop from what it was, but... Still a lot.

Quill

I've been trying to write another chat flag thing, but I need to know the HTML structure for flags, yet I keep missing them when they arrive ;-;

I'm holding out on AskUbuntu chat for some hope

user315433

Flags are SE-chat-wide, AU isn't separate from the rest

Quill

6:31 AM

Yeah, I know. Watching for when the incoming chat messages come in is more effective, I suppose

user315433

Or you could post something, your know...

user315433

Through a sockpuppet, I guess. Else wouldn't see the flag.

Quill

I'm gonna grab the message id from the flag dialog and get the adjacent messages to display as "context"

@soup Yeah.... I'm not really interested in sock puppeting a chat flag

It looks the average is about 1 every 6 hours

user315433

Michael Stum's User Id on SO is two digits.

Quill

I could always open a WS connection and do it manually ;-;

@soup I got a single digit id on Language Learning :)

but to be fair there's only like 10 users

user315433

6:35 AM

Employees come and go more often nowadays, the blog no longer has welcome posts for them.

Quill

That seems to be mostly non-dev roles

user315433

Back in the days it wasn't. E.g., blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/06/…

Quill

I'm just waiting for the day I see another podcast in the sidebar... and then I can have faith back in humanity

Quill

6:56 AM

I'm excited for the town hall... I might actually make some notes beforehand this time, instead of springing crap from the top of my head

Derpy

7:24 AM

in Mos Eisley on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 3 hours ago, by Politank-Z

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: Non-EU married to a British citizen. Must we travel in Schengen zone together? by Gopal Patel on travel.stackexchange.com …

Bart

@Quill I had almost forgotten we used to have podcasts

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Manually reported answer: What is the proper way to dispose of a kitchen knife? by Magnetic Virtual Assistant on cooking.stackexchange.com …

Shadow Wizard

7:45 AM

@Bart used to? No more podcasts?

Bart

Haven't seen one in a long time. I guess it's simply on a hiatus

Shadow Wizard

@Bart yup, last one is 5 months ago

Podcast #70 - David Was Wrong And Jason Was Right

Abby T. Miller on January 7, 2016

Welcome to the Stack Exchange Podcast episode #70! Today's podcast is brought to you by the BB-8 droid. Today your hosts are joined by developer Jason Punyon, whom you may remember from way back in Podcast #21. Punyon works out of balmy Buffalo, NY. (Here's the Buffalo sentence they talk about for a weirdly long time.)

Quill

SE staff are busy people

Bart

I sure it's all down to "priorities" ... pfff

Quill

hiring a "dedicated podcasts manager" is a little much

Shadow Wizard

7:48 AM

@Fiksdal not really. You should upvote good content, period.

Quill

The CMs have been busy handling all the usual drama suspects, Joel is so busy he has to hire a Chief of Staff and I don't know about the other podcast hosts because they're too busy we don't hear from them!

Fiksdal

@ShadowWizard So you're suggesting it's better to upvote all the great answers?

Bart

Upvote the stuff you think deserves an upvote. Downvote what deserves a downvote. Strategic voting is kinda pointless given that you can't really make a big dent anyway in the overall scheme of things.

You're not so much helping an answer to the top as you are holding back well deserved votes from other good contributors.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Pattern-matching website in body: Ultimately, they claimed that by Kashmala zabi on arduino.stackexchange.com …

Fiksdal

8:13 AM

@Bart So if there was a really excellent answere at the bottom, I should just view the other answer based on their individual merit? (Like, pretend the truly excellent answer wasn't there, and ask myself whether I would upvote the others?)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in answer: Whatsapp images lost by mayinjune on android.stackexchange.com (@meatball) …

Bart

@Fiksdal pretty much, yes. Nothing stops you from just seeing the one answer, upvoting it and leaving. But I wouldn't go out of my way to try and get something specific to the top.

Fiksdal

8:34 AM

@Bart OK. Thanks for the input

Magisch

@Quill well Joel is the CEO of a multimillion dollar business

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps answer, few unique characters in answer, repeating characters in answer: Why don't airlines have in-flight video recordings like buses do? by VENKAT on aviation.stackexchange.com …

[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body: The Muscle Building Training That Works by Frank Baumann on drupal.stackexchange.com …

JamesENL

sd 2k

TIPS

9:12 AM

I just got the swag after a looooong time. Hugs @JNat

Quill

:) The Stack Overflow shirts are great

Bart

I want swag!

Quill

Speaking of swag, apparently I can email the team about getting a mod hat (which apparently is just for elected mods)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps answer, few unique characters in answer, repeating characters in answer, blacklisted user: Why don't airlines have in-flight video recordings like buses do? by VENKAT on aviation.stackexchange.com …

Quill

aaaand I got the flag dialog.... time to develop

TIPS

9:37 AM

@Quill *Chem.SE

Quill

oh. that kinda swag... cool

wasn't there a beaker mug?

Quill

9:50 AM

damn that's cool

TIPS

@Quill BURN

Quill

not as cool as my duck, though

these oneboxes are large

TIPS

@Quill Why is your duck looking at its nose?

Quill

Because it knows it's the better item

TIPS

Yeah keep telling that to yourself. :P

SmokeDetector

9:57 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Blacklisted website in body, link at end of body: All in all whilst understanding at by ribianelly on askubuntu.com (@kos) …

TIPS

Honestly they should play fair.

Why do we get the cooler stuff?

Quill

3 mins ago, by TIPS

Yeah keep telling that to yourself. :P

TIPS

6 mins ago, by TIPS

@Quill BURN

TIPS

10:30 AM

1

Q: How come I got the tenacious badge

Well, I have been awarded the Tenacious badge an hour ago... But I don't think I actually deserve it (even though it's nice to get badges). As I understand, I need more than 5 accepted answers with zero score. Fine, I have 6 of them. But it needs to represent more than 20% of my total answers, a...

discussion badges

I never understood these badges.

Quill

You actually get them for playing the guitar

TIPS

Oh, figures.

Quill

T-minus 7 hours

TIPS

I didn't know how to play any musical instrument.

In some parallel universe, it would be one of my primary insecurities.

Shadow Wizard

10:53 AM

@Fiksdal what @Bart said is what I would have said myself. Just keep it simple. No need to over-think voting so much in my opinion. :)

@TIPS lol, my first SO gold badge was Unsung Hero, which I got after less than three months. Felt good! :D

TIPS

@TIPS Who is @OP? You can't do that, you don't notify anyone extra here. Also, if a commenter was named OP or O P, you would notify them this way. — Έρικ Κωνσταντόπουλος 6 mins ago

Maybe they thought they found my weak spot or something.

rene

oh that question ...

Shadow Wizard

11:09 AM

@rene which?

rene

the one @TIPS referred to with their comment @ShadowWizard

TIPS

@rene which?

Fiksdal

@ShadowWizard o.k. thanks :)

rene

@TIPS weren't you set to combust?

Shadow Wizard

@rene he's stuck in Auto mode

TIPS

11:12 AM

I'm not a vehicle.

@TIPS prove it

Proves it

waiting for proof

I just proved it.

@TIPS I for one see an Autobot insignia on your flank.

Shadow Wizard

11:17 AM

switching to True Seeing mode

Derpy

But maybe that's is just your cutie mark?

TIPS

@Derpy WTH is Autobot insomnia

rene

switching to through seeing mode .... Ooops

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy ^

TIPS

@TIPS (not pinging me) Li'l evidence — Έρικ Κωνσταντόπουλος 2 mins ago

Could someone poke this guy?

Preferably with a stick.

Preferably @Bart

Derpy

11:18 AM

Shadow Wizard

@Derpy lol, it was in the Hats sprites couple of years ago

@TIPS I already did, on @Oded's answer. This is a lost cause. He's not there for any discussion, and fixed on his own wrong ideas.

TIPS

@Derpy I am Optimus Prime. Leave this chat alone because I'm coming for you.

@DanBron Just a spelling correction; Thai -> this. — Έρικ Κωνσταντόπουλος 1 min ago

More like feeling like it's Troll Day @Sha.

Happy Troll Day @Sha

Shadow Wizard

oops... sorry @Oded didn't mean to ping you, just a habit. Promise! :D

Oded

Oh, yes. He doesn't like it, so we must change it. Despite the fact that it is just him :)

Shadow Wizard

Yup ^

TIPS

11:20 AM

@Telkitty Says who

Derpy

@TIPS Ponies are authorized in any Autobot owned area by default.

Quill

I just spilt rotten mandarin on my desk.... it smells like wine

Derpy

TIPS

@Derpy But this place is owned by Shog. A decepticon

Derpy

@TIPS Shog is not a decepticon. He is the master of all Medusa's head from Castlevania.

Bart

11:22 AM

@ShadowWizard awww, I missed drama? I don't get enough drama on this site any more.

Oded

@DanBron You got it all wrong. I said Stack Exchange should be a main site, and the meta should be called "Stack Exchange Meta", not reversed. This should be a meta, not a main. Also, the meta.stackexchange.com confuses me because I expect a meta, and I get a main instead. — Έρικ Κωνσταντόπουλος 20 mins ago

Ha. So, he wants us to change se.com to be where we discuss the network, and MSE to be where we discuss se.com...

Quill

@Oded Hmm... I thought there was a word for selective omnipresence

Shadow Wizard

@Bart it's still ongoing... you can poke him too...

TIPS

@Oded Just tell him a "sure thing buddy" and move on

Oded

@Quill sure. Stack Exchange Moderator.

Bart

11:24 AM

@Oded could you not automatically redirect visits from his IP to Yahoo Answers?

TIPS

@Bart POKE POKE POKE POKE POKE . . .

Oded

:)

Shadow Wizard

@Bart POKE POKE POKE POKE POKE . . .

Bart

@TIPS SMITE SMITE SMITE SMITE

Quill

@Oded Hmm. must apply to employees and elected mods.... I'm not seeing it yet

Oded

11:25 AM

:P

Bart

Wow, Youtube is actually down. gg

TIPS

Still managing to make @Quill feel inferior. Good job

Quill

Are you the dev scheduled for the ~~slaughterhouse~~ Town Hall, @Oded?

Derpy

@bart pika pika pika PIKACHUUUUU!!!!!

Bart

@Derpy stick to ponies please

Quill

11:26 AM

I was gonna bring up some sort of Jabber-XMPP-in-chat integration FR, but I doubt many people care

TIPS

@Derpy OK the nerdy vocab went above my pay grade.

Oded

@Quill nope. But I was planning on hanging around for it.

Bart

Town Hall? When? Where?

Quill

cool :)

@Bart http://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/89/tavern-on-the-meta?tab=schedul‌e

Oded

Today, here. 17:00 UTC

Derpy

11:27 AM

^ @ShadowWizard I invoke your search spell... there should be an old picture I made of the Castlevania Shog's head enemy somewhere....

Bart

Oooh, that doesn't leave me with much time to prepare rants, racist statements and other shouty contributions ... That's what happens in those, right?

Quill

remove the racism, and add lots and lots of stars and you're about right

rene

@Bart yes

TIPS

11:39 AM

@Bart Even ranty and bullshit contributions are still contributions.

Bart

@TIPS that's my life motto

TIPS

Cats with Brainfreeze

2

Bart

hahaha

bjb568 is not a pebble

:3

TIPS

Good topic for the town hall too

JNat

11:59 AM

@TIPS Glad to hear that ;) Enjoy

SmokeDetector

12:17 PM

[ SmokeDetector ] URL in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, link at end of body, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title: health-wellnessworld.com/celexas-male-enhancement/ by satione18 on drupal.stackexchange.com …

Shadow Wizard

@Bart prove you're worthy! ;)

@Derpy didn't find, maybe you'll have better luck... here's all the pictures you posted: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/…

TIPS

@ShadowWizard chat.meta.stackexchange.com/…

This must be Castlevania Shog's head.

Magisch

12:33 PM

@Oded How do you guys manage to not slack off? I slack off when using SE all the time and to get work done I have to limit my daily SE time quite a bit. You guys however work AT SE. So you're the people running Procrastination Headquarters

Oded

Um. Yeah. We're... em. Yeah.

TIPS

@Magisch Joel has uploaded himself to all of their computers and is watching them, so he's watching them and they can't slack off.

Quill

@Magisch It's a bit different when you're on the clock ;-)

Magisch

I am on the clock right now

I'm convinced much of the appeal of SO and SE sites in general comes from the fact that they look so professional and are such a household name that you can slack off on them without your boss even knowing you're not knee-deep in some sort of problem solving process :p

Quill

Yeah, it's a bit harder to get away with the mod dashboard and chat though

user311528

12:37 PM

When is the town hall again?

Magisch

Welp, I'm an apprentice, so until 2018 at least I get 4-5 hours daily of my 8 hours for learning and self improvement

Quill

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ http://chat.meta.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/89/tavern-on-the-meta?tab=schedul‌‌e

Magisch

Which means I have lots of time to close questions on SO and flag things

\o/ procrastination

Quill

New airport! (@ Munich Franz Josef Strauss Airport in München, Bayern) https://www.swarmapp.com/c/3mwAEnytc6P https://t.co/221RGh05MW

Tweeted by alexlmiller on June 22, 2016 at 10:38 AM

yay for holidays

user311528

@Quill oaky thanks

Magisch

12:41 PM

What brings you to Bayern, the texas of germany?

user311528

majik

user311528

and mods

Oded

@Quill I don't think he's on holiday. He sure was working yesterday when I saw him in London.

Magisch

@Oded Does SE have a permanent office in london?

Oded

Yep

Quill

12:47 PM

@Oded Oh, I see.

yay for Air Travel, I guess

Magisch

Are you guys doing tours?

Quill

yeah. it's a rep perk at 1m rep

Magisch

Aww damn

Oded

@Magisch not really. The London office is mostly a sales office, I only go in once every couple of weeks, mostly to meet up with other London based devs, who also mostly work at their homes.

Not enough "mostly" in the above.

Magisch

Mhm

I was asking because I'll probably be in london for the winter holidays this year

user248725

12:51 PM

Hmm that makes me wonder if I could get a tour of the NYC offices

user248725

Seeing as I live there, and in college I'll live only a few hours north of there

Quill

You can get a virtual tour on Google Maps

user315433

61

A: I'm on vacation in NYC. Can I visit/tour the Stack Exchange Headquarters?

Generally, the answer is "no". Most of the people working out of New York are sales people who cannot be interrupted or we will run out of money and have to stop sending out so many free t-shirts. We don't really have anyone whose job it is to show people around the office. With that said, you...