Tavern on the Meta

8:00 PM

@JNat just make it 6 to 8 weeks to be inline with expectations ..

@canon we think a console offering would be an awesome benefit (and win-win, could enable / disable it probably within snippets). Just need to find time to implement.

fredley

abby hairboat

That's all, folks! This message marks the official end of our first Community Town Hall event. Thanks to everyone for hanging out with us today, and feel free to continue these conversations here or elsewhere. We really love seeing all the productive thoughts flying around in here today and appreciate everyone's time! Stay tuned on Meta to hear about future events, tweaks to the format, and other related follow-ups. Thanks again!

8

Bhargav Rao

Thanks @abbyhairboat for moderating a wonderful discussion.

PhMgBr

Scatter again!

rand al'thor

8:00 PM

@fredley Me too.

Haney

Thanks CoGro team for trying this experiment!

9

canon

@Haney great!

bwDraco

@abbyhairboat A dedicated room for Community Town Hall events would probably be the best answer.

3

Mast

No loot?

2

bjb568

> productive

TylerH

8:01 PM

CoGro is an interesting name

ArtOfCode

"You have fully used your vote allowance for today"... long time since I saw that

Double AA

Chat survived the stress test!

Tim Stone

@abbyhairboat Everything didn't blow up, mission accomplished!

Mogsdad

@Mast Free stars!

S.L. Barth

Must say I'm glad it's over. This was interesting, but it really needs a little more structure.

Vogel612's Shadow

8:01 PM

@ArtOfCode wow... and that's why PPCG is falling behind CR chat wrt. stars

Shog9

3

Monica Cellio

@abbyhairboat thanks to the team for joining this!

PhMgBr

OK now really wondering whether CM's are now disappointed, or happy.

Mast

@Mogsdad I'm used to The 2nd Monitor, I'm used to free stars :-)

bwDraco

Thanks, folks.

Vogel612's Shadow

8:01 PM

@Mast lol.autostar

abby hairboat

@PhMgBr i can't speak for everyone, but i'm definitely pleased

S.L. Barth

@PhMgBr I think they're mostly exhausted.

Doorknob

4

Shog9

@PhMgBr like, in general?

Doorknob

@Doorknob >_<

Shog9

8:02 PM

because, yes.

abby hairboat

@Doorknob drat! i'll break it up into parts

Monica Cellio

I ran out of stars halfway through. :-(

abby hairboat

or maybe i have Powers

3

Haney

@Doorknob just take out everything @Shog9 says; it's mostly nonsense anyway :P

2

Sam

@Doorknob LOL

rand al'thor

8:02 PM

@Doorknob Wow. I was going to say, I wonder how many messages there were in that hour.

ɥʇǝS

@Doorknob wheel of blame picks @balpha

bjb568

Stay around, everyone, for happy hour, the Tavern star fist!

Tim Stone

@abbyhairboat Just make @balpha fix it

Undo

I don't think this went really poorly. We chose one of the toughest and vaguest issues ever to talk about on the first one, but it worked decent given that.

PhMgBr

@Shog9 About the event and how it went on.

hichris123

8:02 PM

Now it's time for the after party.

Jon Ericson

@Quill For what it's worth, JNat compiled a list of features we did last year.

3

S.L. Barth

@bjb568 At least half of us ran out of stars....

NobodyNada

That was pretty great! The problem, though, was that messages were coming so fast we couldn't talk about a single topic for more than about 15 seconds.

enderland

it would be great if CM messages here were a different highlight color, too

3

Mast

@bjb568 s/fist/fest

Jaydles

8:03 PM

@PhMgBr wonder no more: The format felt even more chaotic/intense than I thought, but I was really happy with the discussion. We ned to think about how to add structure, but personally was really happy with the input and just having a place to respond more to folks questions, etc.

Quill

@JonEricson any communication is great is better than no communication; thanks :) CC @JNat

5

bjb568

@S.L.Barth UTC midnight

Shog9

Afterparty hangout

2

enderland

fairly hard to skim and see the official SE messages

Ana

FWIW this is exactly the kinda chaos I expected. We can improve on this, but I'm real glad we gave this a shot. :)

bjb568

8:03 PM

@Mast nah, ask @Jason

Jon Ericson

@enderland I'm sure that could be done in a userscript. ;-)

enderland

@Ana me too! I thought it was good

rand al'thor

@Ana Unfortunate typo there.

enderland

@JonEricson well it'd be useful for the room and townhall format though

PhMgBr

@Mast Do you not think we'll be punching everyone who remains alive in the end of event 2?

Monica Cellio

8:04 PM

@Jaydles I found it hard to keep up so I appreciated the 2-minute timeouts throughout.

Ana

@randal'thor was tempted to leave that....

Monica Cellio

@enderland +1

Gilles

@Shog9 SE is going to reincarnate Geocities?

Shog9

YES!

bjb568

nooo

rand al'thor

8:05 PM

@MonicaCellio I couldn't keep up even with the timeouts. Still, the transcript will be a very interesting read. Lots of good stuff here.

S.L. Barth

@Shog9 So THAT is why Retrocomputing.SE went into private beta!

Mast

@PhMgBr Heck should I know.

Haney

hey @canon what kinda license do you have on your stopgap console js there? ;)

yo'

@Jaydles as I said, I think that the followup of this chaos is a discussion in "tripartite": powers, mods, users. With limited number of well chosen people in. (In a private chat room possibly)

bjb568

Well, at least the starboard is fresh now.

Tim Stone

8:06 PM

@JonEricson My election town hall chat script could probably be retrofitted

Monica Cellio

@randal'thor yeah, I still lagged sometimes, but without the timeouts I'd have been doomed. On a threaded venue you can choose to abandon some threads, but we don't have that (nor do I know if that would even work).

Mast

@bjb568 For some values of fresh.

canon

@Haney I think I blindly picked MIT

Ixrec

I suspect the biggest structural change that would help is a CM driving the conversation by providing very specific bite-size questions we can all answer quickly and get an instant consensus on (or at least show all the major sides), rather than providing discussion prompts for us to talk over each other for five minutes

Haney

good, good

Ixrec

8:06 PM

like that part Shog screenshot earlier where he asked a question and got 6 people giving very similar one-line answers all at once

Quill

@Shog9 I'm scared to click that ;-;

Shog9

YOU SHOULD BE

bwDraco

20 mins ago, by Shog9

Undo

@Quill Mostly safe

abby hairboat

MSE Town Hall #1 (Part 1)

1 hour ago, 31 minutes total – 380 messages, 48 users, 481 stars

Bookmarked 53 secs ago by abby hairboat

MSE Town Hall #1 (Part 2)

35 mins ago, 28 minutes total – 360 messages, 50 users, 226 stars

Bookmarked 24 secs ago by abby hairboat

enderland

8:07 PM

@Ixrec lol I had a few times where I kept getting pinged. over. and. over. I blame shog :P

Shog9

@Vogel612'sShadow is playing folk music

Vogel612's Shadow

and I muted now ...

Ixrec

@enderland I did not. I guess this means you beat me.

bjb568

@abbyhairboat you can see star ratelimit

Bhargav Rao

700 STARS!!

Vogel612's Shadow

8:07 PM

also it's metal now.

Shog9

CRANK IT UP THEN

PhMgBr

@abbyhairboat Star fatigue

abby hairboat

star power wore off

Shog9

sounds like Tenacious D, not Metal

Ana

@Ixrec One thing we maybe could have clarified better is that we didn't expect to definitely solve anything in this hour. The goal wasn't to arrive at The Answer, the goal was to look more closely at some long standing questions.

Haney

8:08 PM

@canon see my job gets easier when the groundwork has been done for us... MIT license would let us adopt this readily. I'll see what team thinks next week

PhMgBr

Also @CM's what will the next topic be? Some of us might start getting ready for it.

Vogel612's Shadow

@Shog9 killjoy :D

Ixrec

@Ana from my point of view, any reasonable person would have assumed as much long before this started, so I wouldn't worry about that

canon

@Haney Sweet ;)

Ana

@Ixrec I don't know any reasonable people, nor am I one, but I'm glad you do. :)

Ixrec

8:10 PM

not having to be in charge of a network of several dozen websites with highly opinionated users probably allows me to be more optimistic

Undo

'several dozen'

Gilles

@abbyhairboat can you please rename the bookmarks to include the theme?

Quill

several hundred

abby hairboat

@Gilles good call

Ixrec

@Undo I assumed I didn't have time to go count

Gilles

8:10 PM

@Undo a gross and a few

hichris123

Oh was the topic for this conversation really just comments? Having one set topic for 1 hour seemed to just encourage talking about the same things over and over again.

PhMgBr

No really, @Abby, what will the next topic be?

Gilles

@hichris123 people weren't repeating themselves, just each other

abby hairboat

@PhMgBr I don't think it's decided yet. Stay tuned :)

PhMgBr

I'm sure people will be more productive with something prepared about the topic.

Ixrec

8:11 PM

I didn't see a lot of repetition either

Gilles

I didn't feel that this was particularly useful: everybody was talking at once, it went too fast to discuss anything in depth

3

PhMgBr

I am tuned. I worry about you guys. :P

hichris123

@Gilles Yeah that's true.

PhMgBr

@hichris123 Not really, to me it was like "OMFG I GOT A CHANCE TO TALK TO A CM"

Ixrec

"what's wrong with comments" is way too broad a prompt to ever achieve depth imo, no matter what the structure was

S.L. Barth

8:12 PM

@Gilles I did think some good ideas were floated. It's a brainstorming session. It was just too fast. Too popular for it's own good.

2

PhMgBr

Enthusiasm blows.

Sam

@Gilles Yep

Quill

@PhMgBr Shog's usually up for a conversation... about miracle whip

PhMgBr

@Ixrec We couldn't have reached depth anyway. This was #1, remember.

PhiNotPi

I edited my page's CSS to reduce the padding between chat messages, to reduce the amount of scrolling

Ixrec

8:13 PM

yeah, I suspect even without any changes this will work better next time just by not being #1

PhMgBr

abby hairboat

@Gilles done: part 1, part 2

hichris123

@PhMgBr Seems like a pretty bad idea to waste an hour without getting any depth...

abby hairboat

gotta go not squint at a screen for a little bit - thanks for the hang, everyone!

Gilles

@abbyhairboat thanks

Ana

8:16 PM

@Gilles Really? I yell into the void on the regular just because it feels cathartic, y'know?

yo'

@abbyhairboat thanks for the tough job of keeping us at least a bit aligned :)

PhMgBr

@hichris123 So many bad ideas in my life. One more doesn't hurt a lot.

Ana

Jokes aside, this was the very first attempt at this experiment and there's room to improve the signal to noise ratio, no question.

PhMgBr

Jokes aside, I do think this wasn't fruitless.

yo'

@hichris123 not true at all.

Gilles

8:16 PM

@Ana I think a less broad topic would work better

TCPMAN.EXE

Jokes aside, I think you'll be ready to manGo again in a week.

Okay, jokes not aside.

hichris123

Okay, someone dropped the ball: we went over 1 million messages in here (actually, 5 thousand over).

TCPMAN.EXE

How many of them are 'Oy' though.

Gilles

like: do “what are comments for?” one week, then “how are comments misused?” next, etc.

hichris123

@TCPMAN.EXE Not enough.

TCPMAN.EXE

8:18 PM

It'll be at least 6 months before we get over one million non oy messages.

D:

rand al'thor

@hichris123 Actually, 50 thousand over.

hichris123

@randal'thor Oh oops, so I can't read.

yo'

does it mean that Tavern has over 20% of all chat posts? wow

hichris123

In other terms: SE staff talks ~4x as much as we do in here.

yo'

btw, I think that the star limiter should show me a visible counter. It would encourage people to give smaller number of stars to fun crap.

ɥʇǝS

8:20 PM

@yo' of all chat posts where?

Bob's sock puppet

@Ana Great with one exception please see here

142

Q: Can we get an indication comments are hidden between the comments?

When there are several comments some of them get hidden, which I don't mind, except when comments in the middle are hidden and I don't realize it till I get to the end. Then I have to unhide the comments and try to figure out which ones I haven't read. The comments stay in order as they should s...

yo'

@ɥʇǝS everywhere? your message I reply to is number 4883280

ɥʇǝS

@yo' nah. My site's relatively quiet room is already over 1.3 million :)

Bob's sock puppet

See my profile for more info

meta.stackexchange.com/users/132547/…

ɥʇǝS

@yo' that only applies to the MSE chat network.

In which case you would be correct.

rand al'thor

8:21 PM

@yo' This is meta chat though, separate from normal chat.

yo'

@ɥʇǝS ah damn, thanks for that

Ixrec

so who else earned an MSE "Outspoken" badge from all that chatter?

hichris123

You didn't already have that? Slacker.

Ixrec

I have it on the sites where I normally chat

yo'

@Ixrec not yet...

hichris123

8:23 PM

Obviously you're not active enough in here then. :P

Ixrec

well normally this is just Smokey's room =P

hichris123

Nope not at all. Smokey only posts ~30-35 messages/day, compared to the room's 330/day.

The Guy with The Hat

@hichris123 Really, that few?

Catija

I guess this is one of those parties you don't want to be fashionably late to?

Ixrec

then I must've had really bad timing over the last few days I had this tab open to make sure I didn't forget about the town hall, because it seemed like over half the posts where Smokey

hichris123

8:25 PM

@TheGuywithTheHat chat.meta.stackexchange.com/users/266345/smokedetector (I added about 10 to that, I don't believe it includes deleted messages).

The Guy with The Hat

@hichris123 Wow, it seems like so much more.

hichris123

Only if you're active during spam o'clock. :P

Monica Cellio

@Ixrec none here, to my surprise.

Ixrec

@hichris123 I'll blame my UK timezone then

rand al'thor

@Ixrec Me and fredley, at least.

hichris123

8:32 PM

@Ixrec Yep that would do it. See the last graph on metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/graphs.

TylerH

@Ana re: separating out comments by subject, I know that "hiding comments isn't fixing any problems" but you could use this as a basis and have different tabs (or a totally different scheme). I think people would be less interested in leaving bad/useless comments if they weren't guaranteed exposure.

Quill

Looks like the Tavern's slowly returning to normality

canon

Nope, I'm still here... and I certainly don't belong

Kasra Rahjerdi

Hi, I combined the two bookmarked conversations into one:

MSE Town Hall #1: Comments

2 hours ago, 59 minutes total – 380 messages, 48 users, 482 stars

Bookmarked 22 mins ago by abby hairboat

the count is wrong, it's actually something like 500+ but i don't feel like manually updating that field

Quill

Awesome!

Vogel612's Shadow

8:37 PM

Thanks a lot @KasraRahjerdi

Andrew T.

Hi @Kasra , The mobile apps room is... frozen

hichris123

I bet Kasra's been having a lot of fun with Google Wave...

canon

@Gilles I would agree except that I got my chief concern addressed. :P

Kasra Rahjerdi

@AndrewT. ughhhhhhhh, on it

Andrew T.

@KasraRahjerdi thanks!

Catija

8:46 PM

@hichris123 Wait... that was killed, right?

Tim Stone

@KasraRahjerdi Excellent hax

Andrew T.

Does the latest Chrome 50 removed the highlight on pinned tab, when there's update (e.g. new chat message)??

Sam

@AndrewT. It's changed colour for me.

Was white, now black (might have something to do with my theme though).

Andrew T.

I see, it doesn't on default theme (previously it's there).

Let me test other theme...

hichris123

in SE Podcast on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jan 20 '15 at 22:01, by Shog9

@KasraRahjerdi When are we building Wave support into the SE mobile app?

Andrew T.

8:51 PM

@Sam Changing the theme helped, thanks!

hichris123

Obviously @KasraRahjerdi needs to get on this.

Sam

@AndrewT. np

ɥʇǝS

I liked Google wave :(

I never had a use for it.. until now lol.

bjb568

9:23 PM

hichris123

9:35 PM

Yay, they released the Physics 1 FRQs. @bjb568 secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/ap/…

user315433

@AndrewT. Speaking of pinned badges: I choose Chrome theme primarily based on how visible the activity highlight is. (Answer: never enough.) It's high time for bold, bright, material-designy [n] badges on pinned tabs.

Undo

@hichris123 Did you take this?

user315433

I like those FRQs, they are less computational than I expected. A math major who doesn't like physics is not a real math major.

hichris123

@Undo yep.

Undo

Neat. I just did calc AB this morning.

Surprisingly easy

hichris123

9:47 PM

@Meta Although most students who take Physics probably need a more applied understanding for engineering/etc.

Alexis King

2 hours ago, by Shog9

@Ixrec can we define "Lightness" as a network-wide comment problem?

Bahahahaha.

Sorry to see I missed the discussion, though it seems perhaps I didn’t miss out on too much.

Doorknob

FR: make replies on conversation pages not horribly broken. They don't highlight on hover, and when you click one of them to see where it leads, it boots you to the transcript. Making the Town Hall conversation even more insanely difficult to follow.

Actually that applies for the transcript too... they have the hover thing, but clicking a reply reloads the whole page even if it leads to a message on the same page

Alexis King

Searching the Tavern for the name “Lightness” is an interesting exercise...

hichris123

Some names give even more colorful responses.

Quill

10:16 PM

@AlexisKing I'm assuming it was helpful for the Community Growth team to get some feedback, and helpful for the users to have some communication and validation that their concerns matter

Beyond that, no "light bulb moments", really

Alexis King

10:31 PM

Yeah, it looks like it was good! I didn’t mean to demean it in that way. Just seems like it was a bit chaotic, too.

Quill

There was like 5 concurrent discussions at any one time... they chose a really broad discussion topic

Shog9

@Quill we dodged a bullet. As late as yesterday we were still considering "quality" as an option...

Vogel612's Shadow

I'd have needed popcorn for that...

user315433

@Doorknob RR: a platform into which a conversation can be imported, producing proper hyperlinks and generally more bloggy look and feel

yo'

@Quill yes, but frankly, if now someone goes through the starred messages and grabs all those that contain some feature idea, it can have a value.

Shog9

10:36 PM

@Quill weren't expecting any. This was all about @hichris123's blood and guts; if you get a lightbulb in there, you're doing something very, very wrong.

Quill

@yo' Most of them already have status-declined posts on Meta somewhere

Vogel612's Shadow

@Quill that's probably your impression only there...

yo'

@Quill even better. Filter those out and you're left with the feasible ones

Quill

@Shog9 fair enough

yo'

Also, many have status-declined because they are not well thought out or would be applied out of context, but could make sense as a part of a larger batch of changes

Shog9

10:39 PM

conversely, many of the ones that aren't status-declined aren't because I'm lazy and/or am still trying to avoid that gold [status-declined] badge

yo'

@Shog9 lol

Quill

@yo' Most of them are more thought out than 25 characters of bold text

They just like resolution... No is easier than maybe later

yo'

@Quill but still could be out of context. If something has to be done with the comments, it's clear it has to be large, because all small changes are already out. (Well, that's not the reason, the reason is that the problem is really complex.)

hichris123

@Shog9 Hey so I didn't need a meta post to get a ball rolling.

user315433

(1) Identify the sites that have problems with comments. (2) tarball those sites. (3) problem solved.

Quill

10:41 PM

@yo' There is no "context", it's meta

@Meta (2.5) add Lifehacks to that list

yo'

@Meta that would include SO, so I think the biggest problem of the network is solved.

user315433

No, not that kind of problems, at least. I don't see discussion boards under SO posts.

Shog9

@hichris123 well, you really did... But we picked up the slack for you. YOU'RE WELCOME.

yo'

@Quill Sorry I think I lost you there

Quill

They're feature requests to a specific problem, the post needs to (1) layout the background (2) describe the issue and try to describe its importance

There isn't a context

bwDraco

10:45 PM

!!/report gaming.stackexchange.com/a/264727

bjb568

@hichris123 Looks easy. Needs more dynamical systems.

Vogel612's Shadow

@bwDraco aaand 20k user edits the link out...

hichris123

@Shog9 THANKS SHOG! I'll let you know the next time something needs fixing but I don't want to write a meta post on it.

@bjb568 I was surprised there wasn't more wave/electricity stuff.

user315433

Isn't E&M Physics 2?

hichris123

we do a little electricity in 1. Mostly just electrostatic attraction and ohms law stuff.

user315433

10:49 PM

That's quite different from E&M.

bjb568

You can't understand electricity unless you go deeper with differential equations and Fourier stuff.

Pfft, ohms law. Just of definition of resistance.

Impedance is amazing.

hichris123

@Meta right, but we scratch the electricity surface a little bit.

bjb568

1 & 2 is a whole bunch of topics and not a lot of depth, all without calc.

Undo

Just found an ooooold circuit board with through-hole components... nice big ones, and well-labeled.

hichris123

@bjb568 Yeah pretty much. Except for kinematics... (even then though no instantaneous velocity, etc)

Undo

10:52 PM

Heck of a lot better than trying to work with SMDs :P

bjb568

Real electronics are surface mounted.

bwDraco

@bjb568 I've seen cheap hand-soldered through-hole devices. Just cheap workmanship that doesn't hold up.

Undo

also, has a bunch of potentiometers on it. Bet those'll be fun to play with.

bjb568

Ooh, TEH KITTEH WILL TWIDDLE ALL THE POTENTIOMETERS!

user315433

A good FR from today's discussion: For protected questions, require local reputation to comment by Monica Cellio on meta.stackexchange.com

Quill

11:06 PM

No assigned issues for the day... nice. I might go on an extended lunch later and knock off some SO questions

Shog9

11:41 PM

Looks like at least 4 canes made it through the transplant and winter, @tchrist.

Also a mint plant I didn't realize I'd grabbed.

Quill

Plant Wars 2: The Coldening

MSE Town Hall #1 (Part 1)

MSE Town Hall #1 (Part 2)

MSE Town Hall #1: Comments

Transcript for