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12:00 AM
Someone seems a bit confused about how the system works.
> hehehe, why down votes? haters :D but I dont care, keep it comming. P.S. please remember to also down vote my other questions, click on my nick and you will get the list.
12:31 AM
@Moshe: there's an iOS app that has an option to download all of Wikipedia (text only, no pictures). Works, but the formatting's all wonky.
Pardon me, "iDevice" app.
@MichaelPetrotta - heh, cool. I'd suspect the formatting be like that - it's scraping wikipedia. What do you expect from a scraper? Highly formatted "pretty picture" text?
I demand nothing less than perfection.
I'm often disappointed...
@MichaelPetrotta - Wanna see a useless app?
I mean completely useless.
Um, sure?
Are you on iOS 4.x or iOS 3.x?
12:36 AM
Downloading. What are you setting me up for, @Moshe?
there's no need to scrape wikipedia (and there's probably not enough time to do it anyway) - the data dump is downloadable
@MichaelPetrotta - I'm not setting you up.
@GregHewgill - Where? Like my Facebook user profile data?
but I'm not sure what that has to do with your facebook profile
12:40 AM
@Moshe, why?
Rated you five stars, though.
@GregHewgill - Facebook allegedly recently launched a "download your profile" feature.
@MichaelPetrotta - Why what?
okay. But facebook isn't the wikimedia foundation.
It was my first app.
@GregHewgill - I was taking the opportunity to mock FB.
Why did you create that?
@Moshe account settings
12:41 AM
Learning iOS development?
@MichaelPetrotta - It was my first app. i was learning iOS development.
I am working on something bigger now. A kiosk app for synagogues.
No point in keeping it secret, everyone I know knows already.
I felt like a bit of a fool, shaking my iPad for eyeball jokes.
@MichaelPetrotta - Fair enough.
@Moshe: neat. What will it do?
It was made before iPad though.
@MichaelPetrotta - Well, Jewish prayer times are based on a different "hour" than the 60 minute hour
There are times by which a Jewish person is required to have prayed in the morning, afternoon and evening.
Aside from which, there are social announcements which are often made after services, most often on the sabbath (saturday).
So, the app will be able to calculate the times and display them in a slide show, also providing slide templates for all other relevant times.
Then, I can rework the engine for other usage scenarios and settings.
I have the engine done, I am working on the templates now.
I did a field test and discovered something important, btw.
If the system posts an alert to the user, an app will terminate after 10 minutes even in the foreground.
12:47 AM
@Moshe: I don't understand. A foreground app without notifications will stay in the foreground indefinitely, but a foreground app with a notification will terminate after 10 min?
I don't do iDevice development, but that seems weird.
@MichaelPetrotta - If a notification appears from a different app and you don't dismiss the notification, the app is considered in the background.
Say you're playing angry birds, and "mail" or "Facebook" sends you a Push notification.
Pretend you walked away for 20 minutes and then you come back.
If you dismiss the notification, the app regains foreground status, but it's been longer than the 10 minute span
So... it crashes.
I have a crash log to prove it.
@MichaelPetrotta - does that make sense now?
yep. weird.
i know.
So my kiosk app will need to be the sole app on the device.
This also effects the idle timer, btw
If your app enables it in the `- (void)applicationWillResignActive:(UIApplication *)application {
` method.
It will become enabled and your screen will shut down.
I ran the app from before Sabbath, yesterday afternoon ~4:00pm.
It was still running at 12:00am according to a family member.This morning, it was off.
(Electronics usage violated the sabbath laws, so I had to wait until sabbath ended ~5:30pm)
Looking at the Console logs shows nothing, but the crash logs showed:
Incident Identifier: 6A264B98-343E-46CC-8783-B1A040091DC3
CrashReporter Key:   2c62d43967a95a09159b4849958b7142cf075b69
Hardware Model:      iPad1,1
Process:         Gabbai [132]
Path:            /var/mobile/Applications/05C1B5A9-4F84-4DB5-B9C8-278E01B411C0/Gabbai.app/Gabbai
Identifier:      Gabbai
Version:         ??? (???)
Code Type:       ARM (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [1]

Date/Time:       2011-01-01 17:39:03.194 -0500
OS Version:      iPhone OS 4.2.1 (8C148)
Report Version:  104

Exception Type:  00000020
@MichaelPetrotta - As far as Uncle Fred goes, I do plan on making it into a task management utility, as if there aren't enough of them.
And for the iPad version, I definitely will include a button so you can stop shaking the iPad.
Uncle Fred does have potential, it just needs work. A lot of work, but just work.
Anyhoo, thanks.
Well, good luck with it. Kiosk apps have their own unique challenges.
Yes they do.
btw, cool feature idea for your apps, if you ever need it -
My app allows people to download the announcements to their iPhones and iPod touches via GameKit and Bluetooth.
Take the announcements with them.
@GregHewgill - Where can I get the latest dump of Wikipedia? I'm having trouble with that page.
1:03 AM
the english wikipedia dump takes so long they often have problems with it
I have a copy, let me check what the date is
the one I have (which contains the full history of all pages) is from january 2010 and is 34 GB
the dump that contains just the current versions of page is somewhat smaller
1:26 AM
I've engaged the troll, and I need someone to tell me to stop.
A: How to tag question that ask us to find a bug?

waiwai933Please don't tag such questions with a special tag. Many questions are about finding bugs—it's not necessary to separate such questions. I think it deserves to have it own's category - this way beginners can learn from each other and people that want to learn how to read complicated code can ...

@MichaelPetrotta I would, except I did the same thing on Please remove code-sample tag I edited in
@MichaelMrozek: it's like an addiction.
I want an auto-brightness dynamic range control on my iDevices. Auto-brightness modifies the backlight by maybe 10% - I want it to turn it all the way up in sunlight, and all the down in dark.
@MichaelPetrotta I'd tell you that feeding the trolls is bad, but sometimes I can't help myself either.
1 hour later…
2:59 AM
Hola Tyler
3:25 AM
So bored..
@TylerChacha Then go and engage the new Meta troll that has appeared :P
@YiJiang Eh .. same old same old..
The troll is being sexually assaulted by captchas.
Q: Please remove captcha for editing and tagging

01I just did my first edit and as always I was attacked by captcha. I often make language errors, so I have to fix it later. I know why the rule exist, but for power-editing other people questions there should be no check (it would be cool also if you remove checks for fast changing your own questi...

"I just got attacked and raped(I mean I feel raped, there was no sexual contact between us) by captcha"
thanks for the clarification
what a troll...
3:41 AM
@MichaelPetrotta why has that question not been downvoted into oblivion?
@Moshe +6/-6 - questions asking for reduction in CAPTCHA frequency are always winners
My dad just showed me a cool programming trick
Even if the question is terribly asked and is probably a dupe of some other question
you use a number between 100000 and 600000
I meant, when comparing a citation
it's complicated to explain, forget it.
No, try anyways, now I'm curious
3:46 AM
Okay, fine @drachenstern
@drachenstern Are you familiar with the way the 5 books are broken up?
I believe I am, depends on what you mean by being familiar with it
but by and large, yes
There are chapter and verse numbers, but there are also weekly portions that are read in synagogue weekly during sabbath service
I am familiar with that, yes
so I want to be able to take book/verse/chapter and determine the weekly portion from that
so book = ten thousands place
chapter = hundreds and thousands place
verse = tens and ones place
So you mean for your error codes to put some constant in them for sections of codeblock?
3:48 AM
I'm not sure what you mean, but it;s like this:
You read hebrew?
So what's the purpose of this trick?
I do not read Hebrew
and can your computer display it?
oh ok
So I have a citation from the bible
I want to know what weekly portion it's in
@drachenstern following?
I am
presume that if I don't comment I'm following
So I take the book, say genesis = 100000
and then the chapter for the beginning of the second weekly portion, noah, is chapter 6
so add 600 to that
and noah start at the beginning of chapter 6, so add 1 for verse 1
excuse me, verse 9
so it's 106009
is the first verse of the portion of noah
so we take the current citation and compare it against all of the numeric representations of the beginning and see where it falls in the "number line"
That tells me what portion it is.
@drachenstern - Did I explain it correctly?
I'm still not certain. You said it was a programming trick, yes?
3:54 AM
Yes, it is.
did you really only mean an algo trick?
I have a string representing a verse in the 5 books
Yes, I understand that
but what is the aspect for programming?
@drachenstern - could be, same to me, I haven't started college yet so I don't know the diff between an algo trick and a programming trick.
How does it come to be a computer program?
3:55 AM
<short version>Each week's portion is given a numerical representation. Integer comparison can be used to determine what week a specific verse is contained in.</short version>
I think you mean that it's an algorithmic trick
@RebeccaChernoff - Thank you.
@drachenstern - Yes, but I find it fascinating. Part of an app I'm maintaining returns verses from the 5 books.
@RebeccaChernoff I got that part just fine, I was curious how it was a programming trick
I'm adding this check to the program
Nice. Don't misunderstand me, I like having new algo's in my toolbag too. I was curious if it was a more generalized thing ;)
3:57 AM
It is technically
Think of analyzing any text, where you have only part of the info
And integer representation can be used elsewhere, I just cant think of anything now. :D
Yes, but there are already good ways to search and to index text, and defining an arbitrary index (which you're doing) is only good when semantics are being determined
And semantics being a human quality, you rather must rely on humans to define the semantics
Any chapter/verse numbering is inherently semantic in nature
My mum just saw Justin Bieber's Baby music video on TV, and thought that he was a girl...
True, but the 5 books citations are in Hebrew so I can't use native string, methods, at least not easily
@Moshe Hebrew doesn't translate into Unicode?
It does.
I'm working in Objective-C
4:00 AM
translate is probably the wrong word there
Obj-C doesn't do Unicode?
The other option here is to use a dictionary/map
What a backwards language ...
@drachenstern - It does
Perhaps I gave the wrong excuse there.
perhaps so
Aren't numbers more "native" to computing anyway, so comparisons would go a little faster with, say "int"s, than strings?
4:02 AM
Depends on what you're using to look for information
I would suggest you to look at database indexes ;)
However, are you going to return the "identifier" for a portion of the Torah based on a keyword/keyphrase?
Is your app going to contain the whole of the Torah within it and you're going to provide lots of information/searching on the books?
How will you store the Torah then in the app if so?
look it up, if you have itunes
I shall
Anyhoo, results from the current parsha (portion) are to be highlighted
So that's what I'm doing now. (Aside from chatting.)
The text is already stored as needed and I can't really change that so much. I'm reduced to parsing string values, so this does it pretty neatly and hopefully quickly
Ah, now you're getting somewhere ... what's the hash/lookup from a chapterverse to the week? since 106009 (to use your previous example) and 106011 are in the same grouping? Will you define the "260" parsha-starting-points (to invent a number for discussion sake) or will you have some other method?
I'm not sure what you're asking
I basically pass a method a citation and get back an integer.
4:08 AM
I thought you wanted to highlight specific passages if they were current?
@Moshe yeah, so don't you have an internal table structure in memory?
@drachenstern Table containing what?
starting verse (eg 106009) corresponding to a given week
well, I have a library that gets the current week's portion
libhdate by yaacov zamir
4:09 AM
so you only care about the verses for the current week?
@RebeccaChernoff - no, I want to highlight them
does anyone here know what "gematria" is?
...but only for the current week?
the assigning of a numeric value based on the content of the word
@drachenstern yes, @RebeccaChernoff no
@RebeccaChernoff - I want to show all word matches, but highlight words that occur in the current week.
So I take the citation and convert it to an integer
then i compare that integer to the integer mappings of all portions
then i compare the match with the current portion
make sense?
I believe I would have to see it in action, but I grasp what you intend
4:12 AM
so, @drachenstern do you have an iDevice?
I just think I would personally do it a different way, and I'm not sure how you can use the data from another app in iOS so I can't pass any value judgement there on the sanity of the plan
but I believe you
I do
But I don't write ObjC
I have the source code to that app
And I don't see any apps share data between them
I am working on an update to that app
Which doesn't mean they can't just that it's not my experience to witness that behavior
4:13 AM
I am updating that app
Why am I redacting the name of the app?
I don't like doing that, and I would appreciate understanding the reason to redact that information
I prefer it like that.
So to go back to my earlier question, you do have the full Torah in your app already.
Do you realize you talk in circles a lot?
4:16 AM
@drachenstern - Thanks for pointing it out.
My mistake.
Additionally, I'm confused why you don't take a week, get the verse-set for that week, construct an array of unique words in that verse-set, then when you display text, for each word to be displayed, compare it against the list of words in the unique list.
@Moshe I'm not that worried about it, just trying to understand the mechanics of the situation
The words are not at all in order, they are pre sorted by value.
I can't make the weekly list.
which words are not in order?
the words in the database are not sorted by parsha, they are sorted by numeric value
Why would one do that?
4:17 AM
to save processing time
That is not how they are presented in the Torah
download the app, it will explain a LOT.
So it's to be a double-lookup then?
I apologize if I am not being clear.
I was trying to share a cool algo, but I may be discussing proprietary information by going into the source code any further.
@drachenstern - but yes, in a sense.
I would rather not download the app, I'm not Jewish for starters, and I don't read Hebrew for another, and I don't really hold to the assigning of numeric values for words in my language, even tho I recognize the practice
4:19 AM
fair enough
but yes, a double lookup, based on numeric value and portion
@Moshe so then query for the list of words in the parsha, and highlight based on if the first match matches a value in the second list, or something like that. The brunt of my previous statement is still correct, you just get to skip a step
@JacobRelkin - Enjoy reading the transcript :P
Anyways, what an interesting way to store data ... I guess it's a cultural thing, that I just wouldn't understand in almost any case
I wouldn't expect someone not from the US to understand the prevalence of things like Walmart or McDonalds or the nearly passionate desire we as a culture have to have those things around us. Or the delight when we come across them when we are not in the country.
I probably wouldn't expect a person who didn't speak English fluently to understand our hangup on double negation either ;)
4:23 AM
@drachenstern: I'm a snob, but - I ran across no McDonalds (or BK, or any other chain I could recognize from the US) in Israel, and that made me very happy.
@MichaelPetrotta You're Jewish?
@Jacob: well, that's an interesting question.
Depends who you ask. I don't practice, was raised Roman Catholic, but my mom was, and I was steeped a little in the culture.
@MichaelPetrotta interesting observation. I came across a McD in Nice, Fr but didn't go into it.
Best of both worlds, in Jerusalem. Very little cultural Americanism (and so a nice contrast), but plenty of English if I needed it.
and I did.
4:28 AM
@MichaelPetrotta Well, if your mom is Jewish, then technically you are Jewish.
@MichaelPetrotta - Yep, I second @JacobRelkin.
@Jacob: yeah, I guess. We need new words. I guess "secular Jew" works well enough.
@MichaelPetrotta - that word's okay.
"secular Jew who is baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic church, but no longer observes". Too wordy, maybe.
@MichaelPetrotta Still.
4:30 AM
...what the heck? meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/73643/… (specifically the last line)
Unless you want to want to be called an "oy jew". Heh (just kidding)
That's your cue, I think, @Rebecca.
@MichaelPetrotta o:
I've got so much client work this holiday weekend, it's ridiculous. I KNOW IT'S THE HOLIDAYS, but this particular client doesn't really care.
4:31 AM
does that mean something, "oy jew", or just an expression of exasperation?
@MichaelPetrotta I made it up.
(I know "oy", of course)
@MichaelPetrotta This conversation is frickin' hilarious
@RebeccaChernoff first off that should've been closed within seconds so shame on @MichaelMrozek for answering ;) secondly ... still reading
@drachenstern Well, the FAQ post is several hours newer than that post, probably created as a result of that post.
4:33 AM
@Jacob: you want something else to lol at? I made my teachers crack up as a kid; my catch phrase was "Oy vey, Mama Mia". Two guesses where the other side of my family is from.
Yeah, I shouldn't have gotten involved, but I'm an optimist.
@MichaelPetrotta haha, nice
@waiwai933 but that's not the first time that question has been asked is it? It's just got to have been asked before 23 hours ago
@MichaelPetrotta - my turn to say it:
4:34 AM
@MichaelPetrotta are they Roman Catholics? ;)
Yeah, I probably should've looked for a dupe. Bad Rebecca!
@drachenstern No, but it was closed as a dupe of that, so I'll give @MichaelMrozek the benefit of the doubt
About to hit 31k.........
@drachenstern: yes?
4:34 AM
@JacobRelkin - And it's all my fault. What have I done?
@MichaelPetrotta the roman was the point there .. "Mama Mia"
@Moshe LOL
@JacobRelkin downvote time \o/
btw @JacobRelkin - When doing integer math
we need ASCII animation in here.
or maybe not.
4:36 AM
looks around, sees that @RebeccaChernoff is blaming herself for something, nods, and disappears again
@RebeccaChernoff LOL You better not!
@JacobRelkin are you trying to discourage me? I'm pretty sure that just encourages me...
@waiwai933 no no, I'm looking for the answer I intend ... hang on
@TimStone oy.
@drachenstern: please. Sicilian. sniffs
4:37 AM
@RebeccaChernoff If you have good reason to downvote me, then by all means... Otherwise... feel free to upvote! :)
@MichaelPetrotta lol, finally! :p ;) ... no diss was intended, of course ;) ... please! they're the only kneecaps I have!!!
> @Rebecca, Ooops you are a moderator!! They are not sexist at SO, and that's a good news :-) Ok, so I must probably convey that my assumptions were not correct. Pretty hard to endure a loss. But a nice and interesting discussion!
@JacobRelkin Challenge accepted!
Wow, I just saw a really bizarre IBM commercial about preventing food spoilage.
raises brow
@drachenstern: No worries, my grandparents were peasant farmers at best. But I like the assumptions people have, need to figure out how to use it.
@TimStone - Did they have server cooling involved? That would keep the food fresh.
4:39 AM
@MichaelPetrotta I'd be intimidated by your cool sunglasses.
@Moshe No, they didn't really mention anything related to IBM, which is why I was surprised to find out it was an IBM commercial.
@RebeccaChernoff Awesome.
@MichaelPetrotta - Yes, cool sunglasses.
So...if someone starts their question with Hi there and ends it with Thank you, is that a good reason to downvote someone? (:
4:42 AM
@RebeccaChernoff Yes
I edit them always, remove salutations
and thanks
@RebeccaChernoff Especially if that user has 31k rep—he should know better /quicklycontrivedreason
@RebeccaChernoff No, I actually don't think it's that bad
@waiwai933 HAHAHAHA
Dammit @Moshe!!
Oh, yeah, those... they're glacier glasses, closed on the sides. That's a self-portrait, from the top of Mt St. Helens in Washington state. In the higher-res version, you can see the crater in the reflection.
@RebeccaChernoff - What greets?
4:43 AM
I can't downvote it if you edit it!!
grumbles ):
@RebeccaChernoff - Too bad... :P :D
@RebeccaChernoff I'm confused by your attention to technicalities.
@RebeccaChernoff no it's a good reason to edit ...
@TimStone I need your googlefu
@MichaelPetrotta Nifty :D
@drachenstern It may be hampered at the moment, but shoot.
4:44 AM
r u on your phone?
changes mission. must now downvote @Moshe.
@RebeccaChernoff - Erm, no fair.
Nah, watching the Fiesta Bowl :P
I know this is a dupe meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/73643/… but can't find a first one
@TimStone lol
4:45 AM
@RebeccaChernoff - But I warn you - I can make more puppet accounts than you can make backwards smileys.
so don't mess. :P
@RebeccaChernoff Which question are you talking about?
@drachenstern Jeff closed it 15 minutes ago, you aren't satisfied with that? :P
pages the SO Dev team to be on alert for sock puppet accounts (;
or is that ugh can't backwardify the letter P:
4:46 AM
@RebeccaChernoff ;)
bah, I got my curiousity piqued because I know I've read it before
Oh I should mention that I asked that question A LONG TIME AGO
oh right, lowercase Q
That question is a dupe like 20 times over, heh. Sec.
@JacobRelkin - I know, judging by the question, which, is a good one for one starting out.
4:46 AM
I know
@RebeccaChernoff q:
Would someone mind being the last to close this question? It's annoying to see the "close (4)".
@waiwai933 - flagged
not until you post a link (;
"Please close this"
4:47 AM
@RebeccaChernoff he has.
dammit it is hard to see the link
@RebeccaChernoff What's wrong with with being grateful?
Make your userscript make links flash multiple colors and then grow.
4:48 AM
Yes it is, someone should /blame @JeffAtwood to shame him on the link css values ;)
@waiwai933 It's not really noise, it's an actual feature-request
@JacobRelkin - Nothing, but we try not to post salutations on SO.
@RebeccaChernoff Why do you have a problem with someone ending a question with "Thanks"?
Close as noise or pointless? why?
I feel like that's probably a dupe.
But noise/pointless?
Considering the way it's phrased, esp. the 2nd paragraph, and it's that particular user, it tipped me into the close boat.
4:50 AM
@RebeccaChernoff You should see on Gaming's chat, it's even worse.
But it's probably a dupe too
I've just been editing his questions to...uh...suck less
Normally if you keep the first paragraph and delete everything else they improve dramatically
@RebeccaChernoff I'm not sure how you managed to win an argument I've been in for over a day with "Ooops you are a moderator!!"
I loved Hans' comment.
"I saw your comments. Think 5 minutes before you post them."
@MichaelMrozek LMAO
is just that damn good ^__^
@drachenstern Maybe this, but this before it, if I read the question you linked to right.
4:55 AM
@MichaelMrozek given the other comments regarding my gender, I presume I was being profile stalked due to that. >_<
@MichaelMrozek This was the one you were talking about earlier?
Ok, reread. Did he come on to you in a MSO comment?
@TimStone neither of those but I think we* all are familiar with the concept of a volatile point system and trigger threshholds, so I'm not sure why other developers of 2k SO point stature aren't...
@MichaelPetrotta That he did, sadly enough
@drachenstern Guess it depends on where they got those 2K reps from. :P
@RebeccaChernoff Yeah, that was...weird. I don't think I've ever felt the need to comment on something like that

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