Tavern on the Meta

12:10 AM

[ SmokeDetector ] Repeating characters in answer: Word for group of noisy people by vhjvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvy on ell.stackexchange.com

Kevin Brown

@SmokeDetector tpu-

hichris123

@InfiniteRecursion done

So... what did I miss from WWDC / everything?

bjb568

Yay, I'm enrolling in the Apple Developer Program now.

hichris123

> In preparation for the move, we will be relocating these services to our New York facility in a window of around 8-9pm EST

Oh, well great.

Also, I think you meant EDT.

If chat goes down right now... :/

bjb568

12:28 AM

@hichris123 A lot

Kevin Brown

@hichris123 Nothing you couldn't have guessed

bjb568

@hichris123 … then you can move to DD!

@KevinBrown Really? There was a lot of great stuff in there…

I just watched the keynote in its entirety. I wasn't entirely unsurprised.

hichris123

Heh, so a lot of what we saw at I/O.

Feeds

Data Explorer (http://data.stackexchange.com) will be down for a few minutes while we migrate it to New York.

Tweeted by StackStatus on June 9, 2015 at 12:25 AM

bjb568

@hichris123 with less invasion of privacy…

hichris123

12:31 AM

Swift 2.0 looks nice but other than that...

@bjb568 That's what they want you to think.

bjb568

Oh, right, like there isn't a concrete measure of privacy in the legal documentation…

hichris123

'cause there isn't.

bjb568

Lack of privacy is rarely a secret. It only comes as a surprise if you choose to ignore it.

@hichris123 What do you mean?

hichris123

'cause your (lack thereof) legal documents on DD isn't supportive of anything at all.

bjb568

What's DD have to do with anything? It's a startup and the legal docs are being drafted.

Kevin Brown

12:33 AM

@bjb568 Alright, some of the iOS 9 things I didn't see coming, but the announcement of Apple Music, OSX 10.11, and the Watch(kit) updates... not as much

bjb568

Apple and Google both have very complete privacy policies.

hichris123

@bjb568 ... and do you really think Apple cares more about your privacy than Google does?

bjb568

@KevinBrown Well, sure, iOS and watchOS are going to have some incremental improvements.

@hichris123 Obviously. Data is fundamental to Google's business model.

From tosdr:

> Google keeps your searches and other identifiable user information for an undefined period of time
> Google collects a lot of information about the services you use and how you use them, including when you visit a website using a Google service for advertisement. In the past, Google stated in their Privacy Policy: *“We strike a reasonable balance between the competing pressures we face, such as the privacy of our users, the security of our systems and the need for innovation. We believe anonymizing IP addresses after 9 months and cookies in our search engine logs after 18 months strikes t…

hichris123

@bjb568 same with Apple. How else can they provide you with relevant information on your iOS device?

bjb568

Oh, parsed "on" wrong.

Kevin Brown

12:39 AM

At least you can use Google to create a Weapon of Mass Destruction
You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons.

bjb568

The can provide information that's good for anybody with anonymous aggregate data collection. Or, locally they can personalize my results in a way that keeps my data secure. They don't sell data to advertisers like Google does.

hichris123

@KevinBrown Markdown doesn't work in mutli-line messages.

:(

Kevin Brown

Second time this week I learned that lesson :(

bjb568

It works properly on DD…

You can even have multiple onebox images in one post!

Or, a damn caption.

hichris123

@bjb568 ... and you know this... how, exactly? How do you know they don't sell your data to advertisers? And how do you know Google sells your data to advertisers? (there's a difference between providing aggregated data & selling specific information)

bjb568

12:42 AM

It's stated in their respective ToSs.

or privacy policy or whatever doc it is

Feeds

Data Explorer is back online, we're working on moving the chat data now - outage will be a bit later.

Tweeted by StackStatus on June 9, 2015 at 12:41 AM

hichris123

:(

@bjb568 And you've read every word and paragraph of both documents?

bjb568

Of course not, you have?

hichris123

no, but you seem to be an expert on the situation, so I'm asking how you became an expert.

bjb568

> Non-personally identifiable information: This is information that is recorded about users so that it no longer reflects or references an individually identifiable user.
> We may share [snip] non-personally identifiable information [snip] with [snip] publishers, advertisers or connected sites.

That's pretty broad.

@hichris123 I make no claim of expertise, but I have heard about each respective company thru publicly available information and drawn conclusions on such information.

Kevin Brown

12:46 AM

@bjb568 Your local grocery/chain store does it as well, they just don't tell you about it.

hichris123

> Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising.

bjb568

@KevinBrown Oh, sure, I know about that. Especially with all the rewards cards and stuff…

@hichris123 That's then further limited in other parts of the privacy policy.

hichris123

> Apple shares personal information with companies who provide services such as information processing, extending credit, fulfilling customer orders, delivering products to you, managing and enhancing customer data, providing customer service, assessing your interest in our products and services, and conducting customer research or satisfaction surveys. These companies are obligated to protect your information and may be located wherever Apple operates.

Kevin Brown

@bjb568 They tell you about the rewards cards (usually), I'm talking about the semi-anonymous purchase data that is sold

bjb568

I don't know much about that since it isn't me that goes shopping, but I'll look into it.

It seems less offensive for, well, data about how many watermelons I buy.

But I am still concerned about targeted advertisements in meatspace.

 With your consent

            We will share personal information with companies,
            organizations or individuals outside of Google when we
            have your consent to do so. We require opt-in consent
            for the sharing of any sensitive personal information.

Transcript for