Tavern on the Meta

rchern

7:00 PM

Pull request merged.

Tim Stone

I got emails this time. :o

rchern

(:

Handy, aren't they?

Tim Stone

Yeah, heh.

Uh oh

I may have left log statements in the code..

rchern

naughty!

Tim Stone

Yeah, crap. Those are kind of costly.

rchern

7:02 PM

does a search for console

Tim Stone

Line 325

(and 328)

I'll fix things for @Chacha102 and fix that too.. (now)

I feel so special

I just did a push (:

Ah, thanks :)

what?...

0

Q: What happens to a blocked Facebook account's email address?

What happens to a blocked Facebook account's email address?

facebook

Default

7:06 PM

what are you guys coding?

rchern

(Though just removing the 2 lines)

Tim Stone

Yeah, I'll take care of the rest.

rchern

hehehehehe

Default

@Fosco: interesting

Tim Stone

@rchern Hahah, sneaking up there ;)

rchern

7:07 PM

in Chat feedback on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Oct 28 at 15:06, by rchern

Keyboard shortcuts and /commands for chat: Install Link and Github site

Fosco

I only stop by WebApps.SE to see the dumb questions.

Uh oh :P

who is TMS?

Some weirdo.

and why does all his code suck..

Tim Stone

7:09 PM

sheds a tear

Default

@TimStone: what are you guys coding..?

Tim Stone

2 mins ago, by rchern

in Chat feedback on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Oct 28 at 15:06, by rchern

Keyboard shortcuts and /commands for chat: Install Link and Github site

rchern

@Fosco grumble grumble

Default

oh

Chacha102

32 secs ago, by Tim Stone

2 mins ago, by rchern

in Chat feedback on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Oct 28 at 15:06, by rchern

Keyboard shortcuts and /commands for chat: Install Link and Github site

Fosco

7:11 PM

@rchern :D

Default

Fine, Sry! :P

rchern

@Fosco Not like you've asked any good questions. Or any bad ones for that matter...

Fosco

Link for the README on the user scripts: github.com/rchern/StackExchangeScripts/blob/master/README.md

@rchern Yeah that's kinda my thing... I have all the answers. :P

rchern

@YiJiang needs to fix this still. >_<

@Fosco oy.

4

Tim Stone

I don't ask questions because @Chacha102 will talk smack about my code :(

Hahah

Chacha102

7:13 PM

Yes .. I will blog about how bad your code is for all 5 of my monthly visitors to see

tylercarter.org

Tim Stone

@Chacha102 Nice

rchern

@MichaelMrozek, the feature-request you flagged on MWA is from after our design.

Michael Mrozek

@rchern Really? You guys launched forever ago then

rchern

...yes?

(;

Moshe

7:29 PM

@Chacha102 - Nice site.

Tim Stone

@Chacha102 See if this works for you (remember to disable the other one)

Moshe

HTML4 ? Really? You' have't joined the HTML5 uprising? :P

Chacha102

@TimStone Which buttons am I pressing again?

Command Up and Down?

Tim Stone

Yeah

Chacha102

am I required to be in the text box?

Tim Stone

7:32 PM

Command Down should send you to the input box, then Command Up from there

rchern

yes

Tim Stone

(though if Command Down works then I imagine it's OK)

Chacha102

nope..

Tim Stone

Really? Argh.

rchern

solution: don't use mac.

Chacha102

7:33 PM

I'll play around with it later today

since I have a mac it would probably be easier for me to trial and error

brb

Michael Mrozek

I believe I've set a new personal record for most confusing single line in a shell:

awk '/^C  \[Xyzzyd.*_ZN/ {sub(/+.*$/, "", $3); print $3}' `ls -1t hs_err*.log | head -n1` | xargs -n1 c++filt

Take that, GUIs

Moshe

Anyone know why some Meta.SO posts receive no attention from Jeff and Co?

I'M not trollng, but I did put in a feature request and it hasn't been denied, but it hasn't been noticed either.

Fosco

status-avoidance

Moshe

It has nine up votes too. What would cause that?

willjcroz

Hi there, anyone know of a mechanism to deal with the following situation on SO where if you ask a question and it gets a really bad answer early on

rchern

7:38 PM

@Moshe 9 people like it or agree with it.

willjcroz

and it then gets ignored

oops

rchern

status-serious-face

Moshe

Ok, so why would it be ignored by The Jeff?

Fosco

@willjcroz I've wondered about that too... My feature request would be for the question asker to be able to delete an answer.

Moshe

Is it that bad that he doesn't want to a adress it?

@Willjcroz - you could down vote and or flag the answer, I guess.

rchern

7:40 PM

@Moshe Maybe it is being discussed internally? Dunno.

willjcroz

yes agreed, it seems harsh but the answerer really made no attempt to think it through

Moshe

@Willjcroz that is what down votes are for.

Fosco

I usually go for new, unanswered questions.. so if I see it has an answer, I may not even look.

Moshe

@Rchern it wasn't such a big request.

Tim Stone

@Moshe I'd just be happy it wasn't marked [status-declined] / [status-bydesign]

Michael Mrozek

7:41 PM

@Moshe There are rather a lot of requests

willjcroz

yes but it will still show up as 'green' in the questions list and miss many views for that reason

Michael Mrozek

And assuming you're talking about the quote source thing, it's fairly unimportant

Moshe

@MichealMrozek yes and agreed

Tim Stone

And beyond that, some things are less important than others, other things are overlooked, and being impatient about it won't change much.

Moshe

@TimStone true.

I guess I should just wait patiently then.

But if anyone has input on that question and how it should be implemented, perhaps that would help get things moving along.

Michael Mrozek

7:42 PM

Yeah, two weeks isn't very long. I just had a bug report fixed that's been open about a month, and that was a bug, not a feature-request

Fosco

@Moshe He'll look at it within 6 to 8 weeks.

willjcroz

@Moshe do questions with only negative rated answers appear differently to answered questions then?

Fosco

@willjcroz Nope.

Moshe

@Willjcroz - no, but thats a good feature request there. (IMHO)

Just in terms of usability.

Fosco

@Moshe Agreed.

Michael Mrozek

7:43 PM

@willjcroz If you mean the "unanswered" tab, questions with no upvoted answers show up there

willjcroz

@Michael good to know thanks :-)

Moshe

@MichealMrozek people don't always use the tabs, I look at the home page only.

Default

86

A: The Many Memes of Meta

Meme: 6 to 8 Weeks Originator: Jeff Atwood First Heard: May 13th, 2008 Cultural Height: In about 6 to 8 weeks Definition: The time estimate given "off the top of my head" when the Stack Overflow team has only a vague idea of how long a task will take because they have little-to-no formal sche...

Moshe

@Willjcroz what was the question, btw?

willjcroz

@Moshe how to add a feature request? ask as question on meta?

Michael Mrozek

7:44 PM

@willjcroz Yeah, there's a tag for it: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/ask?tags=feature-request

willjcroz

@Moshe stackoverflow.com/questions/4324221/…

@Moshe I put a lot of effort into the question, and have exhausted any reasons to edit/bump it

The problem has been driving me crazy, I was hoping a Swing 'guru' might just see it and have some advice even if it was a suggestion to abandon the general approach for a better way

Moshe

Sorry, I'm not a java programmer (now - I do tend to jump around between languages)

Have you googled the particular call you are using?

Sorry, but the obvious question needed to be asked.

willjcroz

heh thanks for the upvotes people :-)

Moshe

@WilljCroz - as far as editing the question goes, you may want to reformulate the title to Why does XYZ cause flickering? Or something like that.

@Willjcroz honored. (starred it too.)

willjcroz

@Moshe I've spent whole days googling for it and reading about Swing

thanks for the advice :-)

Moshe

7:52 PM

Well, good luck then. No clue. Sorry. Although I will leave you with a last price of advice.

willjcroz

damn I just tried to downvote the answer but I need 125 rep :-(

Moshe

This past week, I had a leak in my iPad app. I thought I knew where it was, and I spent two days looking for the source of the memory leak and I couldn't find it.

I asked several questions on SO, about different code sections of my app.

Finally, I got a an answer that hinted to the source of the problem.

The moral of the story:

Perhaps your bug is not where you think it is. It could be something else.

willjcroz

yes very good point

Moshe

Lots of luck, I gotta run. I'm curious to see what happens. Go through the rest of your code, particularly your UI layout and stuff.

Bye. :-)

willjcroz

cheers Moshe :-)

Moshe

7:57 PM

Thanks.

drachenstern

8:30 PM

@willjcroz couple questions:

You still there?

Dan Grossman

Let myself sleep for 5 hours and nothing exploded, guess I set up the load balancers right

Dan Grossman

8:51 PM

/saves e-mail from Zendesk.com about re-entering credit card in case I ever need to copy their wording when switching payment processors

drachenstern

9:03 PM

@DanGrossman glad I'm not the only one that does that ;)

Dan Grossman

This female friend of mine just got propositioned by a 17 year old in Senegal through Facebook. "Please Jen of God have my babies. I want to make the sexual contact!"

George Marian

@DanGrossman I'm sure it made her feel special.

Dan Grossman

>> you believe l don,t love for you no after the friendly it,s love l am in love with you

<< I can't afford to come to Senegal, sorry!

>> no i heart you have many money in the bank
>> You call your father he sent you a money

George Marian

lol

Dan Grossman

<< no

>> I am hapy bijou

George Marian

9:10 PM

That reminds me of the good ol' days of "a/s/l" ;)

2

Dan Grossman

googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/…

George Marian

Hmmm....interesting. What problem does this "algorithmic solution" solve exactly?

Dan Grossman

It solves the bad PR problem from news stories about the eyewear company.

George Marian

So, "don't be evil" translates into drowning bad reviews?

Dan Grossman

9:27 PM

If they did it right, they penalize the companies with bad reviews on searches not directly about the company.

i.e. "[name brand] glasses", but not "[company name] reviews"

actually they don't even need to do that, since the reviews aren't on their own website

George Marian

How do they differentiate between legitimate and generated reviews? Just because it's on another site doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't real.

Dan Grossman

:shrug:

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian Did you read the NY Times article? Clearly something had to be done, heh.

George Marian

@TimStone Won't someone please think of the children?!?

:D

Tim Stone

Hahah

George Marian

9:37 PM

So, here I am rocking out with my headphones, and I just remembered that I'm expecting a package today. I gotta get some real speakers soon.

Tim Stone

Whoops, heh :P

Dan Grossman

Urgh, the AWS Management Console doesn't support modifying DB Parameters for Amazon RDS yet. Gotta spend 20 minutes installing Java, security certificates and command line tools to make a one-line setting change.

I just need to change MySQL's time zone :(

George Marian

@TimStone Ironically, it has already been delivered. It was sitting outside my door. I wonder just how softly the letter carrier knocks (if at all) or if it did just happen to be delivered during that 15 mins I had my headphones on my head. :)

Tim Stone

There's really no way to do that with RDS via the management console? That's disappointing.

@GeorgeMarian Ah, at least you didn't have to sign for it then.

George Marian

@DanGrossman Don't you just love jumping through hoops for no good reason?

Dan Grossman

9:45 PM

My adoption of Amazon Web Services almost always coincides with when they put them on the Management Console. I hate setting up all the command line tools for the API.

though I did use SimpleDB and that's still not on the console

drachenstern

@TimStone (and whoever else here is bored, since the js.chat.SO isn't getting any love right now) here's a fun one for you to play with instead of fixing your own bugs and building your own features, jsfiddle.net/drachenstern/5fYVv I want to do the first block (commented out) instead of the nastiness that is the second block but I'm not sure if I even can...

George Marian

LOL "arias sung in the key of livid"

Tim Stone

@drachenstern If you want to do it that way, you'd need to start with var blue = $('.blue'), red = $('red') so that you get the DOM nodes groups per their original state.

But hrm..

drachenstern

10:00 PM

@TimStone hence my ifelse block to try and negate the need for that, but still... going for elegance over readability. Nobody can mistake the "ifelse" supernester for anything else, and we all know exactly what it does, nes?

also, does such a "execute function" extension method exist? I wish it did, without having to resort to an each or something...

George Marian

> “They wrote to me, ‘We’d like to talk to you; we should take a proactive approach.’ ” Mr. Borker sneers and rolls his eyes. “I sent him a photograph of this,” he says, raising his middle finger.

I'm really liking this article.

Tim Stone

@drachenstern Can you give some context for the relationship between the class swapping and what you want to do in that function?

Like you want the function called for each one that you swap, or only after a certain round of swapping is complete?

Tim Stone

10:25 PM

Heh :D (It's too specific to your example to be useful, but I did it anyway :P)

George Marian

Ok Facebook, WTF? Why are you suggesting people that don't share any friends with me? Oh, she's single, interested in men and living in my area... =/

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian I wrote a userstyle that hides all of that. They colourfully prefixed those element IDs with "ego"

George Marian

LOL

Tim Stone

shakes head at Facebook

George Marian

Yah, they drive me nuts. I spend less time on the site as a result. One thing that seriously annoyed me was that they default to the "Top News" view. When I checked the site regularly, it was useless to me.

Tim Stone

10:38 PM

Ugh, yes!

George Marian

The thing is, it is actually useful for keeping in touch with friends. So, I can't drop it entirely.

Tim Stone

It's always switching back to that.

George Marian

Yup, it sometimes sticks to "Most Recent" for a while, after clicking on it several times.

Why can't I just pick the default view that I want to see?

Tim Stone

Yeah, it stays there for me most of the time, but it does require a few clicks the first time it switches back to Top News.

Which annoys me to no end. I've made my decision, remember it.

George Marian

Exactly.

drachenstern

10:43 PM

@TimStone sorry had to run but am back now

Wes

@GeorgeMarian actually I think you may find some of those are adverts made to look like suggestions

Tim Stone

I'm just sitting here playing Minecraft anyway, nothing to apologise for, heh ;)

Wes

@TimStone Just thought it may have something to do with what I said about minecraft earlier. obviously not

drachenstern

@TimStone called after each swap ... it checks a set of checkboxes that match certain conditions beneath the next of the parent of the clicked on element

George Marian

@Wes Ads? What ads? AdBlock FTW!

Tim Stone

10:45 PM

@Wes Er no, @drachenstern

@drachenstern Ah, OK.

George Marian

And, yet again, I'm logged out of chat.SE...

Refresh...and I'm logged back in...grrr

Tim Stone

@Wes Oh, no.

drachenstern

@TimStone yeah, I'm toggling values based on the clicked cell, I wanted to boil the jsfiddle down to the bare operating parts

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian Hrm...who to blame...

@drachenstern Ah, in that case I definitely took it too far with my update. ;)

Wes

My last message didn't come up on my screen. I'm going to play minecraft now.

Tim Stone

10:47 PM

@GeorgeMarian balpha's fault, seems reasonable.

George Marian

@TimStone Well, I am running Minefield...so, who knows?

drachenstern

I think the naive but brute force way is potentially faster, altho I could probably get faster still by taking the class of the clicked element and looking for a substring of the compared name, but this way reads cleaner instead of running a lot of checks

George Marian

@TimStone lol

drachenstern

@TimStone jsfiddle?

Tim Stone

@drachenstern jsfiddle.net/TvZHD/3

It was more of a "because I can" than it was an actual solution.

@GeorgeMarian Hm..

drachenstern

10:50 PM

actually tho it's a pretty spiffy solution ... just not sure which is more "maintainable" for this group ...

George Marian

Marc said that they do some funky things with cookies to make the auth work. I suspect that's the real issue. :)

Or is it Mark? heh

Tim Stone

@drachenstern It would break horribly if your elements had more than one class assigned, though.

Wes

So all you guys at work?

drachenstern

@Wes for the time being

Tim Stone

Since the function to toggleClass gets the whole class attribute string, I believe.

I'm always at work :P

Wes

10:54 PM

funny that I always sign on here at home

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian Yeah. I wish I could help you on that one, but if Marc can't figure it out there's zero chance I could, heh.

drachenstern

@TimStone I could always add a third parameter to the array, no? Then continue with the same structure that's already there and instead of toggle, remove, add

Tim Stone

So we'll stick with blaming balpha per the WOB ;)

George Marian

Works for me.

Tim Stone

@drachenstern True, you'd only have to remove too, since the return value of that function takes care of the implicit add for you.

Though I feel like my logic failed me somewhere there, but yeah. :P

drachenstern

10:58 PM

yep, and I'm thinking if only I could chain the remove to the end and still use the value of the array

George Marian

On a totally different topic, now that the water in my fish tank has finally cleared up, I notice the fish staring at me. I wonder if it's because they're hungry.

Tim Stone

@drachenstern Hmm, I might need a mock up so my brain can sync with your hypothetical changes. ;) That, or I'll just nod and you can continue on since you know what you're doing anyway.

drachenstern

@TimStone lmao, yeah right :p

I'm gonna experiment tho

Tim Stone

@GeorgeMarian Ah, it's all cleared up now? Nice. And yeah, food is always good..

Wes

@GeorgeMarian I don't think fish are that clever?

George Marian

11:02 PM

@Wes They rush to the top of the water whenever I feed them, so they must have figured out something. :)

Wes

@GeorgeMarian thats reaction to stimuli. Do they rush to the top if they see you are bringing over the food?

why's minecraft updating

was there a release?

George Marian

@TimStone It's funny how suddenly it cleared up. I was had been improving slightly and then overnight, it cleared up almost completely. I've actually noticed a difference from this morning.

@Wes Precisely. I don't really think they're staring at me wondering when I'll bring the food, but you never know. :)

Wes

was there two replies to me just there? I heard two notifications but I only see one from George

George Marian

That's because I edited that message.

Wes

@GeorgeMarian good to know but confusing.

George Marian

11:07 PM

@Wes Yup. I guess it could be changed, so it only notifies if the edit has added a notification.

Tim Stone

I asked for it to be rate-limited, but I don't think that happened.

Wes

Okay cool thanks guys.

George Marian

@TimStone That'll probably get fixed at the same rate as the envelope got fixed. :)

Tim Stone

The envelope got fixed? ;)

Wes

@TimStone beat me to it.

Tim Stone

11:10 PM

I just favourited something the other day and it notified me of the answers that were already on the question before I favourited it. :P

George Marian

@TimStone Ah yes, fair enough. That's still busted.

Edits do show up on the page, though. At least that annoyance is gone.

drachenstern

@TimStone so what it boils down to is I'll need a shitton of code and I'll still have to maintain a pair of arrays, so the boilerplate ifelse is cheaper by far for maintenance, even it if's not as elegant

The Unhandled Exception

Hey there everyone. How are we all today?

drachenstern

but yes, I could do it with a add and a remove if I wanted to

Tim Stone

@drachenstern Makes sense :)

The Unhandled Exception

11:14 PM

I'm stopping by for quick drink in between tasks :-)

drachenstern

Josh!! Welcome back sir, how goes life?

Tim Stone

@TheUnhandledException Not too bad :P

Wes

@TheUnhandledException hey josh

The Unhandled Exception

@drachenstern Heh. Been better,m that's for sure! I'm hanging in though. Things are at an 11 on the crazyness scale :-p

@TimStone Glad to hear it

drachenstern

@TheUnhandledException can't find the limits if you don't push the bounds, right?

The Unhandled Exception

11:15 PM

@Wes Hey. How goes? How's the peer review proposal coming along?

@drachenstern Something like that, LOL

Wes

@TheUnhandledException did you ever get that womans email sorted?

The Unhandled Exception

4 hours ago, by rchern

@Fosco oy.

Glad to see that nothing changes in here :-)

Wes

@TheUnhandledException its not really I don't think. Wasn't my proposal, but I liked it.

The Unhandled Exception

That's always a comfort, LOL

@Wes I am still working back and forth with her on it, believe it or not!

George Marian

@TheUnhandledException I'm seriously feeling this full bodied cigar I decided to smoke midday.

The Unhandled Exception

11:17 PM

@GeorgeMarian HAHA :-)

George Marian

It was still good to the lip burning nub!

Though, I may need to lay down for a spell. ;)

Wes

@TheUnhandledException Oh I believe it all right. I've just spent 3 hours on a support call taht was obviously internet. (and I don't work for an ISP) but I can't say no I won't look

Wahoo more red stone

The Unhandled Exception

Well, I gave this person a whole bunch of things to try on Wednesday and didn't hear anything even after repeated pings over the holiday, until Monday when someone else fro the company said the owner's email was down

And I said, yes, we know, we asked her 5 questions and are waiting for her reply

Her replies are very delayed. If it's a priority for you, sit down and address it :-)

The issue is, she's doing too many things at once, and thus doing none well :-(

Wes

I know what thats like. To rely on someone like that or to be that person.

Worst thing about support calls to me is logging a follow on support call to some poor sap in your datacenter even though you know its not going to be thier problem.

Protocol needs to be obeyed. Gosh I'm glad I've less than two weeks work left there. But finding a job may become imporant.

George Marian

@Wes Well it may be their problem, due to protocol, but they won't be able to solve it.

Wes

11:26 PM

I know

Just passing the misery on

@GeorgeMarian you know you get a feel for the errors so its technically possible that its their problem. But you Know in your heart it isn't.

George Marian

@Wes Yup. It makes it harder to fill-out the form objectively.

(Dang left-handed keyboard. The number pad's enter is right by the ctrl key.)

Wes

hahaha

George Marian

LOL Google's "algorithmic approach" seems to be a black-list.

Tim Stone

11:42 PM

@GeorgeMarian I'm sure they use an algorithm of some sort to sort that sucker and seek out matches ;)

Wes

Anyway got to shoot. Thanks for the chat.

George Marian

@TimStone List bad reviews and have some underpaid employee add them to a list? ;)

@Wes See yah later.

drachenstern

@GeorgeMarian if it's good enough for google ... oh, yeah, I see your point ;)

George Marian

lol

Not that having a live human in the loop is a bad thing. Seems to work just fine for the military...

sigh You'd that think someone who puts charts out daily would know how to read a chart and understand statistical significance.

> but we were surprised to see Ballmer is ranked lower than Carol Bartz at Yahoo

businessinsider.com/…

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