How can I have pinned it given that I haven't and aren't RO?

@bjb568 Which message is it?

Doesn't matter, same for any.

Yay, my parenting post passed @Doorknob 's in votes!

@bjb568 no it didn't :P

They're both at 29

Oh, well we're even now.

RACE TO THE 30!

Redditors are such armatures. Only 35 measures of resting intensification?

stackoverflow.com/q/27764122/3622940 help watch the self vandalism

!!/hats?

@Unihedro HATS ARE AWESOME. Winter Bash will end in 0 days, 3 hours, 47 minutes and 13 seconds. :(

@Doorknob冰 I'd downvote both if I could. :P

:( So it would have gone by the time I wake up

pffff

tuts ... I'll give you a tuts ...

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/27753707/…

@Behaviour That reminds me: I used to have a question from a closed site on my top network questions on the redesigned profile page.

Not there anymore, though. :(

cv-plz stackoverflow.com/questions/27660042/…

sees as @rene gives tuts around

takes cover

you better hide...

@hichris123 Why mine? It's actually a genuine question. :P

@Doorknob冰 ... oh really. You're writing in a third person POV as if you're your parent. And you're assuming your parent is ignorant about programming‌​.

> note: I am actually the child, not the parent, in this scenario, but questions from a child's point of view seem to be on-topic as per meta. Nevertheless, I have posed this question as if I were the parent.

Also, yes, my parents are ignorant about programming...

Pretty much same here.

@Behaviour Uhh... my goal isn't to teach my parents how to program

@Doorknob冰 A little bit of Google goes a long way.

I mean one did learn how to use punch cards and the other is a product manager for a code-y thing…

But they don't know programming.

cyber gap

They don't have the dedication or motivation. Or basic skills needed to use a computer properly.

@bjb568 There's a thing called teaching someone...

@hichris123 Yeah, they don't know how to use Google either. (Well, not effectively, anyway.) And that's not even the main point of the question.

@hichris123 You can't teach somebody who won't be taught.

You can't learn Vim in a few Google searches.

Google sucks. What about duckduckgo?

@Unihedro What's wrong with Google?

Everything. They invade your privacy and sell your life.

@bjb568 ... who says they won't be taught?

@bjb568 Well thanks, that's real helpful

cv-plz rec stackoverflow.com/q/27770023/1223693

@hichris123 Usually, them. But it's probably obvious anyway that they don't want to ever learn.

Faking "results returned" number, giving ads services and keeping crappy websites on the air with ad services, not celebrating SysAdmin day and International Programmers Day...

Oh so much to tell about how Google sucks.

@Unihedro Who cares about a number? What do you mean, "giving ads services"? Well DuckDuckGo doesn't celebrate National Ugandan and Czechoslovakian Underwater Basket Weaving Day, now does it? That offends me!

You can use hashbangs on DDG.

!so this is an SO search

!mdn this is an MDN search

site:stackoverflow.com

site:developer.mozilla.org

Way longer.

And doesn't redirect to their own search.

... Who cares about National Ugandan and Czechoslovakian Underwater Basket Weaving Day?

So set up a custom search in Chrome

@Doorknob冰 Custom being DDG, yes

@Unihedro Does celebrating some arbitrary holiday somehow make a search engine better than another?

It could.

@Doorknob冰 No.

All else being equal, of course.

@bjb568 Why go through a search engine when you could use the site's search directly?

It mostly shows that they're kewl!

@Doorknob冰 More clicks

s, enter, click, type, enter vs !so type enter

And sysadmin and programmers' days are not arbitrary.

@Doorknob冰 laughs No one can use Google effectively. And how is that not the main point? "Now, I have no idea what any of this means, because I'm not a programmer myself." - go Google it. There's wikipedia for a reason. "Considering this, how can I help him interact with other programmers at a similar skill level?" - there's Google for that, too. Have any family friends who are programmers? Introduce them to the kid. etc.

@bjb568 Nope, more like s <foo> enter / mdn <foo> enter.

@Doorknob冰 "He has already made plenty of acquaintances on Stack Overflow and other programming-related SE sites (and chat)," - you just contradicted yourself. Didn't you say you knew nothing about programming? Then how do you know what Stack Overflow is? If your kid explained SO but not any code to you... that seems frankly like you don't care.

@Doorknob冰 You have to hit enter and click on the search bar (using mouse!)

@Doorknob冰 I did. really, all you need to know is :w, :q, and :q!.

@bjb568 Tab.

@hichris123 Okay, if the part about "I don't know anything about programming" was removed, would it still be a meh question?

@Unihedro Oh, still 2 chars. With mdn it's worse, since browser won't autocomplete since developer. is a common subdomain

@hichris123 Well it's better than "He has already made plenty of acquaintances on some Overstack thing and an Exchange website or something."

@Doorknob冰 Unless it's written from a parent's POV, I think yes. You're a kid. You simply cannot introduce all the relevant context without being a parent going through this experience.

@bjb568 F6 -> s -> (type something) -> enter

@Doorknob冰 What's f6?

@bjb568 Focus the omnibox (in Chrome, at least).

Oh

You assumed?

@Doorknob冰 Brings up another point: if you didn't know what it was, then how did you know it was about programming? Right, you Google'd it. Therefore, you can use Google. Therefore, you can read Wikipedia. Therefore...

@hichris123 And of course, C-x M-x is the only useful Emacs command ever :P

@hichris123 Pointless discussion is pointless.

err, that's not even the quit command. C-x C-c? I don't even remember :P

@hichris123 Because my child told me? "Hey, what's this overstack thing you're doing?" "It's a programming website." "Oh, okay."

Anyway, Google is evil since it tracks searches for IP, cookie, users… They also track where you visit on the internet thru ads and analytics.

Thank god they didn't say it was a forum

Also, the other thing @Doorknob about your question: "How can I help my child who is advanced in programming to meet others at the same skill level?" - that makes it sound like you're trying to make a hobby of your kids' into a job. A "I do this for fun!" thing into a "You must master this or else!" thing. Maybe "How can I help my kid who is advanced in programming to strive to learn more?"

@bjb568 So? As long as you're getting more relevant search results (and even ads), who cares?

@hichris123 wat … how?

@bjb568 And their CSS stylesheet is crappy and unnecessarily large.

@Doorknob冰 I do. This is wrong. It's none of their business.

And I block trackers and ads.

@bjb568 So does everyone. Including Stack Overflow.

@bjb568 You're evil.

@hichris123 Source?

@hichris123 Well, it's actually something that I actively want to do. Perhaps I should edit that into the question.

@hichris123 No.

@bjb568 ... don't do that. :/

Why?

Why not?

@bjb568 They use Google Analytics. They track IPs with HAProxy. Hold on a sec, I'll get the big meta post.

@bjb568 Because that's how The Internet™ works. If everyone did what you did, none of us would be here. (Yeah yeah, tragedy of the commons and all, I know.)

@hichris123 Siiigh, ok, maybe I should add to the DD about page that we're free and don't have ads and don't track you and all that. DD is the future! :D

@Unihedro You're not supporting the website you love.

@hichris123 I don't love their ads.

@bjb568 Nah, DD is in the past. 20 years into the past.

If I had monehz, I'd donate.

@hichris123 elaborate

@bjb568 Then they don't make money and can't exist. If every user did that...

@bjb568 I doubt there were ads 20 years ago on websites.

> the tragedy of you're a dick

@hichris123 They most would have money and would donate and everybody would feel good and good things would be funded.

Yeah, basically that

@hichris123 But I watch the "Work from home if you are a dog" ads!

@Doorknob冰 Perhaps. But it still sounds out of place, like "I want this kid to be the best" vs " I want to encourage him to grow".

Yeah, fair point.

Is the starboard going to become exclusively xkcd now?

I should try my luck with Parenting.SE.

@Unihedro They'll accept anything.

Keep the stream of programming going!

Ask about formal education for programmers or something.

A boring obvious topic like that.

@bjb568 Translation: "Feel free to dump your trash on the poor users over there who actually care about quality" ?

I noticed that it's the youngsters on today… :D

@bjb568 You accidentally a word. Also, you can't conclusively say that. Look at some very worthwhile charities that get very little in donations.

No, I meant I'll probably ask a more parent-like question than the ones by you two. :P

@hichris123 Charities ≠ Services

@Unihedro Please don't. Then I have to yell at more people on how their question is crappy.

@Unihedro Why?

@bjb568 Exactly. Charities are better than Services because they support a cause. And some struggle to get donations. If people don't want to donate to a Charity... why would they donate to an internet service?

Because they rely on the internet service for something.

I donate to Wikipedia every year.

Services benefit people. Charities benefit other people.

@bjb568 ... so what you're saying is you should only donate to things that will directly benefit you? That's... really selfish.

@bjb568 Do they? Do they really care that much?

@Doorknob冰 I'm describing the situation not saying it's ideal. It's awful of course.

I think only 1% would. (but remember kids, 99% of all statistics are made up!)

@hichris123 But... I have a real question that fits their scope

@hichris123 If mdn disappeared, :eek:, so I would want to give them money.

@Unihedro Just ask it.

@hichris123 That's not that bad.

@Unihedro ... but you're asking in the parent's POV, right? Therefore, it's not a real problem you're experiencing.

@bjb568 Perhaps not, but enough to survive on?

@hichris123 So?

@hichris123 It is a real problem, just posed from a different point of view so as to appeal to those who are answering it.

@hichris123 It depends on your audience, I suppose. There are definitely situations when the model doesn't work. I'd advocate for payed service in that case.

@hichris123 My better bet is to wait for Mentoring proposal to air, which is unlikely to be on time.

@bjb568 Mostly off-topic. stackoverflow.com/tour "Focus on questions about an actual problem you have faced."

@hichris123 Not really a rule. And meta parenting has decided it's ok.

@Doorknob冰 No, because have you ever heard your parents trying to do that? No? Is it that you want your parents to?

@bjb568 ... which is exactly why SO is free & has ads.

@hichris123 They are quite bearable.

@bjb568 Rule? Kinda. Rule for determining if it'll be a crappy question? 70% good.

@hichris123 Actually, yes. Unfortunately, it was in all the wrong ways. "Hey, you should try this 'coding club' that's really just a bunch of people drag-n-dropping these block thingies in Scratch!" And yes, that is what I want my parents to do, and I'm sure they would support it as well.

@bjb568 huh?

@hichris123 In reality, it doesn't really matter if you think it's a crappy question.

@hichris123 They are less bad that the average ad.

@bjb568 Oh really. Says the person who has complained about the crappy answers to your question.

@hichris123 Complaining doesn't do anything.

support @Doorknob冰 - if only my parents consulted advice on my interest from the right people and not my "computer science teacher"

@Doorknob冰 ... puts on psychiatrist hat Are you trying to get your parents to do these things by asking a question on how to help you? Are you expressing your sadness at not having your parents support you in the right way?

@bjb568 Actually, having a constructive argument achieves quite a bit. So much so that SE team made entire subsites devoted to it (called "meta").

takes off hat

@hichris123 …

@hichris123 Another parent might see the question upon Googling.

@Doorknob冰 Not a whole lot to do tho with it.

@hichris123 did that.

Protecting might help a bit. @Doorknob's question was protected.

You're improving another teenage programmers' life potentially.

@bjb568 That was kinda sarcasm. But kinda not.

@hichris123 Uhhm... no, I'm trying to figure out what "things" there are to do, so that I can actually do them.

@hichris123 Get rid of the but kinda not part.

@Unihedro agree

@Doorknob冰 Yes, the question is useful, on-topic, and well-written. I don't see a problem.

@Unihedro Perhaps. But it's written in a way to guarantee crappy, unhelpful answers.

@hichris123 So? Is that really an awful problem?

Anyway - Focus on the pilot, not visitors @hichris123

(Area51 motto)

Helpful and good answers and stories float to the top by community voting, so volume is no concern.

@Doorknob冰 I don't think it's a useful way to get help. You're asking a group of professionals, some probably programmers. Each person is different. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here then -- what do you think you need help on?

OT

@bjb568 ... yeah...

@hichris123 What are we supposed to do about it? Besides replacing the question with another one entirely?

@Unihedro In what sense are we using pilot here? Pilot of a TV show-ish?

@bjb568 Write a better question. Don't try to be a parent. Be yourself.

> how can I help him interact with other programmers at a similar skill level?

@Doorknob冰 Interact how? Talk? Code? Work together?

@hichris123 area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/create?category=arts click on the Who is this site for? box

@hichris123 So delete the question and the value in the thread and… what? It isn't like you can just become a parent and write the question again in another perspective that's magically better.

@hichris123 Yes. (that was only slightly sarcastic)

The problem is just that there's nobody around me who can understand and talk about and work together on anything that I do.

@Doorknob冰 me?

@Unihedro Ah. Didn't get the reference.

> Don't try to be a parent. Be yourself.

@bjb568 No, like actual real people, not pixels on the internet.

@hichris123 Then it's not a parenting question!

@Doorknob冰 sobs

The problem I'm seeing in these questions is you're writing for advice as a parent would. And a parent's advice to a parent doesn't especially help a kid.

@bjb568 Then maybe it doesn't work on Parenting..

@hichris123 So what's the point in jumping thru all these hoops to correct answerer's behavior?

@Doorknob冰 Then find someone. Tell your parents. But I don't think this question is solving your problem.

> But I don't think this question is solving your problem.

@hichris123 How so?

@hichris123 Find how? Asking parents won't help. The question is the most likely bet.

@hichris123 Yeah, that's exactly what I've been trying to do. And it hasn't been working, at all. Hence the question.

@Doorknob冰 ... this is the time where I feel like I've been arguing and I'm wrong. But maybe I'm not. But maybe I am...

You are.

@hichris123 In any case, it's been an interesting discussion.

I'm going to go edit the question to fix some of the things you've mentioned.

Oh, very interesting and worthwhile indeed.

@Doorknob冰 You can also shorten the I'm not a parent part.

I may be wrong, but I am never right.

@Unihedro parseerr

@Doorknob冰 Yep. And helped me to not do work!

:D

@hichris123 Yeah, we couldn't let that happen. ;)

lol

:D

Same here…

:D

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you... Awkward silence

Hallo Awk

nuke-plz stackoverflow.com/q/27770780/1223693