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2:02 AM
!find hichris123
Um… no kik plox
so close to not too late
On the plus side, !find is no longer borked.
Oh no
How has bjb not racked up an auto-moderator flag with all of these kicks, @Shoggingthroughthesnow?
2:05 AM
how do you know he hasn't?
@bjb568 lol what was that?
@Shoggingthroughthesnow ... you're right, I don't. :P
@hichris123 That was borking
> If it is the third or more time the user has been kicked within 24 hours, the ban will last for 30 minutes. In addition, the user is automatically banned from creating new rooms and from sending invites. This automatic ban does not expire and can only be removed by a moderator.
Ah, within 24 hours is the big penalties.
There are still no real moderators on MSE, although the possibility was discussed sometime... I think Shadow, Martijn and Tim Stone would fit the bill perfectly.
2:07 AM
!find why?
@Behaviour I don't see a real need.
Of course, we also want Python questions answered and SEDE features added... so maybe just Shadow.
2:09 AM
@bjb568 Try raising a custom flag on MSE and measure the response time.
Compare to the sites with active moderators.
@Behaviour Oh. But when do you ever raise a custom flag on MSE?
@bjb568 If something locked needs to be unlocked, or conversely. Same with protection.
:2841924 hi
Hm… fair enough.
2:21 AM
So, replace Martijn and Tim with @Braiam and @gnat.
There will be no more off-topic programming questions lingering at -11 on the site.
what the...
@Braiam NBD, just nominating you to moderate MSE.
== English == === Initialism === NBD next business day no big deal...
2:24 AM
@bjb568 Next Business Day, just nominating you to moderate MSE. :P
@Behaviour I don't believe anyone knows how many views we're getting. There was some discussion about this over in the blog chatroom back at the beginning of the endeavor, but nothing ever came of it. We have a stats page, but no one seems to have "sufficient permissions" to access the page.
It's been discussed to include a tracking image from a 3rd party somewhere on the site theme and bypass the SE stats tracking, but that didn't get developed fully.
@Shog probably has sufficient permissions
I think Grace Note deals with the blogs for the most part. S/he's not often in chat, though.
Grace Note was the most involved SE employee when we were setting up the blog. One of the things they mentioned was that SE was putting blogs on hold for the most part, so if something not absolutely necessary was broken it probably wouldn't be fixed.
2:32 AM
Maybe because it logs too much, like IPs. The it'd make sense that only employee can access that area.
I remember supporting the introduction of a blog in one of my earlier lives, but the present incarnation is indifferent to the blog. I barely find the energy to update my own.
@Behaviour He's a he. But apparently doesn't mind people calling him she? shrugs
@anorton (Of course, it's been a while, so my memory may have distorted the extent of the lack of desire to fix stuff.)
I think GN prefers to remain ambiguous on this point, so I was following their preference.
@hichris123 They
@hichris123 S/he is in the realm of quantum physics, so s/he's both she and he at the same time!
2:33 AM
@Behaviour Ah, lol.
@Braiam Eeeek!
@Braiam ಠ_ಠ
> Chris is a gamer by heart and heritage, and thus a lot of her life comes from his love for video games.
> Chris is a bit private in nature
That too.
@anorton I'm skeptical that page actually exists. Where'd you find a link to it?
nm, I see it - the broken link in the header
Given it's broken...
2:37 AM
> Yes, it’s an in joke. :) We’re used to it over on Gaming.
> Grace has declined to comment on her gender in the past. Additionally, she seems comfortable with whichever pronoun you choose to use.
sigh I hate it when my chat client doesn't load the latest messages.
@hichris123 mm? your or someone's? and chat client? don't you use crappy mobile chat?
@Braiam Sometimes mobile chat. But this time it was on desktop, and my chat window didn't show Shog or anorton's messages. So it looked like my last 4 messages were all in a bunch, whereas there's actually messages in between the groups of two.
@anorton what browser
@bjb568 Firefox.
I cut off my tabs in the screenshot.
2:40 AM
Ok, just an ugly theme.
WordPress.com Stats "Future upgrades to WordPress.com Stats will only be available in Jetpack." - yeah, that doesn't sound like something that's gonna work.
People use WP? WP sux.
@bjb568 What do you use for blagging?
I'd much rather see unstyled HTML.
@Behaviour I don't.
If I did, I'd make a custom node app tho.
So there. I would not use WP if not for that purpose.
2:41 AM
@Behaviour people now is leaning for django and tumblr-like
I don't normally think of django as a CMS...
@bjb568 Rolling your own is fairly stupid. People have done it before... and probably a whole lot better & more optimized.
in Unix and Linux on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, Jun 20 at 0:47, by Gilles
@Braiam one of several CMS whose existence I learned when they launched an SE site
^ how many of us feels about CMS's
I'm using WP currently, but I like the look of Ghost.
@Shoggingthroughthesnow Ok... so I guess we can write off finding blog stats. thanks for investigating.
2:43 AM
@hichris123 Well, WP sux
@bjb568 s/WP/PHP/
@bjb568 How so? And take a look at ghost.org
Jul 26 at 1:01, by bjb568
@BenCollins Wow. I don't get why we need crappy CMS, let alone a dedicated Q&A site to them.
@hichris123 Meh
For starters, it took over a second to load.
@hichris123 Looks good, if you feel like hosting it yourself. Which I don't. Hosting with them is $10/month, which is pricey.
@bjb568 blog.codinghorror.com is running on Ghost.
2:46 AM
a CMS is one of those things you're sure you can write yourself in an afternoon if you ever need it, until you need it and find yourself wasting way too much time supporting your little hack-job. So you look for something that can replace it where someone else is doing some of the heavy lifting...
...now you have two problems.
@hichris123 The CSS there is crappy
@Shoggingthroughthesnow that's not true... you have 3 because you used regex
So you find yourself wasting too much time fighting with the bone-headed design decisions whoever wrote the off-the-shelf CMS you picked made, and decide you can do better...
@bjb568 ... you seem to have a lot of opinions, but you never back it up.
And you fork it, or start from scratch & release the results, and get a few other frustrated users signed on, and y'all spend weeks building this thing into something less insane than the one you started with, and now you're doing the heavy lifting for a bunch of other suckers who got tired of their own hack jobs and...
...that's when you find Area51
2:49 AM
Q: Will the maximum speed of a network card reduce the impact of an incoming DDoS attack?

TheJamaicanGuyI’m wondering if the maximum speed of a network card would reduce the chances of a DDoS affecting a home-hosted website. In this scenario, I’m hosting my website from an Android Tablet where the maximum speed incoming/outgoing is 10mbps.

> I’m hosting my website from an Android Tablet
I need to bookmark this conversation as "how all CMS sites are born"
@hichris123 Yikes!
@hichris123 Pro Home Tablet Server Edition 1337
Ok, quick question: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/167259/…? On my side, the accepted answer shows up as #3 when sorted by votes. I thought that accepted answers were always supposed to show up on top when sorted by votes...
@anorton accepted answers don't float to the top if it's by OP
2:51 AM
@Unihedro Amazing +1 5 stars.
@Unihedro Oh... I can't believe I missed that.
@anorton when something doesn't looks OK, blame OP... then blame caching
(filerepairforum back)
flag the question too, probably.
Spam seed!!
2:56 AM
Yes, given that the OP was not responsive to a question about Excel version... spam seed.
@hichris123 how that thing passed trough the FP queue!?
@Braiam I dunno, ask @Shog
One can find the review history on SEDE
@Behaviour Yeah, but that takes work
Gilles has one in his SEDE account
@Braiam because someone clicked "no action needed", of course.
And this is the query: Find All Reviews Pertaining to a Particular Post
^ Rude and will be quickly deleted
@Shoggingthroughthesnow omg pls increase re queue entry rep lim
2:59 AM
@Behaviour If Shog has a message deleted... bad things happen. :P
Is the all-caps warning a success, by the way? I think it should be SE-wide.
the amount of NAN that guy has scares me stackoverflow.com/users/1031929/…
let's have a look...
@Braiam First one reviewed at stackoverflow.com/revisions/27595459/1 ... hmm... no action needed to you? :P
@hichris123 uggg.... all those i's... D:
3:08 AM
So... looks like Engineering will be the next beta to launch? The description is kind of vague.
@Behaviour here's the results for folks who ignored the warning at least once:
Attempted Title                Attempts Posted as                                                                 UserId Outcome
------------------------------ -------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ ----------------

  IN PREDICATE CALCULAUS    4                                                                                  null   user not found

 .......................... 1                                                                                  null   user not found
Eh, not ideal for analysis; do you have it in your Google Drive?
Or gist.
@Shoggingthroughthesnow Outcome: user not found
3:11 AM
@Unihedro == didn't post, didn't create an account
or, did post, then deleted
if there's a post
@Shoggingthroughthesnow oh... I thought it means post -> (process redacted) -> user not found
@hichris123 Don't want stuff cluttering up my account. :P
@Unihedro it could, but not seeing any of that on math
@Shoggingthroughthesnow HELLLPPP!!! CALCULUS OPTIM seems cut off...
3:14 AM
(... because it is)
@Doorknob冰 perhaps. Or the OP's of those were just weirdly incompetent.
Not "perhaps"... because it is. (they all are... scroll down)
@Behaviour just copy the content, click "Ask question", then indent the whole thing
@Doorknob冰 Perhaps it's not perhaps.
@hichris123 Perhaps you are right
3:16 AM
@hichris123 Ok: no is responsive
@Braiam That doesn't calculate percentages for me. But I can see that the posts did not fare well.
@hichris123 I think this is how the script captured the titles, after a certain length was reached.
@bjb568 ... and that makes a site horrible? Stack Exchange isn't responsive. Yet you use it.
Not horrible. Just crappy CSS
So, the all-caps titles should just block the post outright. With some extremely vague error message.
@Behaviour Or a generic "You suck at asking questions. Try to make it suck less." message.
Because I saw users changing the very last letter of the title to lowercase. Only the last one.
What is the difference between user not found and deleted in the "User outcome" column? Does the former indicate "nuked by mod"?
Those are separate columns. User. Outcome.
Thanks, my bad
3:33 AM
What did I say about chat not updating...
@Behaviour Such a change would render Smokey useless
The all caps reports are often ignored anyway. I know how to convert case, but usually the title needs more help than I can give.
I can't fix any of the "Attempted title" entries on my own, because they have more significant issues related to their quality
^ @hichris123 will see these messages after some time :P
@InfiniteSnowflakes lol
3:43 AM
@bjb568 Fun fact: Duck don't sing.
You quack, close enough.
@bjb568 I drink juice, water, coffee, and milk - none of which influence my quacking
Same here except meeewing and no coffee.
@bjb568 ಠಿ_ಠ
3:48 AM
@bjb568 Jan's list might be different, because he calls us kids. Ask him :D
@Jan ? ^ ! :P
@hichris123 Question/user stats are of April, maybe state current ones? stackexchange.com/sites#traffic
(I know, I could/should do it myself. Gotta get used to editing Wikipedia.)
Editing wikipedia is a nightmare.
3:56 AM
@InfiniteSnowflakes so the way this works is, there's a log of every attempt to post where a blacklist entry is triggered - even if the entry doesn't block posting. Each contains the input, the expression matched, the user, and a timestamp.
To get the outcome, I need to try and correlate that with an actual post made by the same user.
If I can't find the user, then that's not going to happen
[[file:Conolampas diomedeae MHNT.jpg|thumb|Test of ''Conolampas diomedeae'']]

The '''test''' is the [[Seashell|shell]] of [[sea urchin]]s and microorganisms such as [[radiolarian]]s, testate [[foraminiferan]]s and [[testate amoebae]].

In [[ascidian]]s the test is composed largely of [[cellulose]] (historically termed "tunicine"). From 1845 (when this was discovered by [[Carl_Schmidt_(chemist)|Schmidt]]) until 1958 (when cellulose fibres were found in mammalian connective tissue), ascidians were believed to be the only animals that synthesised cellulose.<ref>Endean, [jcs.biologists.
not human intelligible
So "user not found" means either the user gave up and never posted (hit the other quality checks, etc.) or was deleted (quite possible for man of these)
"deleted" just means I found a likely post, and it was deleted.
Why aren't users soft deleted?
4:00 AM
because nothing assumes that users can be soft deleted
is there not a lifehacks.se twitter yet?
and the longer we go on, the more stuff exists that assumes users aren't deleted when they exist
not really something we could just bolt on
@Sompuperoo SE stopped creating Twitter bots a long time ago.
The last one to get it was Arduino. None of the sites after that have a Twitter account.
@Shoggingthroughthesnow Siiigh… when I add deletion, I just go thru files looking for (e.g.) dbcs.programs. Then I add like 1 line of code (e.g.) deleted: {$exists: false}
4:03 AM
Soft deletion of so many spam accounts per day will be a waste of space
@bjb568 Users wishing to be removed have the right to have their information (at least OpenId and email) actually wiped out, not just hidden. Or so they think. Or so I think they think.
@Behaviour Fine, those can be overridden.
You're not quite getting it, @bjb. It's not like there's logic all over the place asking user objects if they're deleted or not, and we just need to add a flag somewhere instead of hard-deleting the info. The assumption is that if you can get info on a user, then that user isn't deleted.
So, let's say we add this flag. Users.Exists=0|1
@bjb @Behaviour Wikipedia has a visual editor. It's in beta though.
@hichris123 ooh kewl
4:05 AM
Then we add logic to all the obvious places; post display, profiles
And look for everywhere a user is being requested from the db.
not just a user
A post
An edit
Every comment
Posts should be deleted when users are deleted.
@bjb568 Absolutely not.
4:06 AM
Nor are comments, nor are edits
I mean the ones that aren't given to community.
You seriously gonna argue we should purge edits when an editor is deleted?
Naw. So every edit needs this check.
@bjb568 Why? It's licenced CC, and others should learn from their knowledge.
It's bjb, he argues for everything.
Every reply, every notification - someone checks their inbox, you gotta check this for everything in it
4:08 AM
My point is when the deletion of a user affects the state of something else, something else needs to be updated.
Every vote, every flag, bounties...
There's a crapload of stuff, and more being added all the time
And we're not even touching on the optimization headaches
Oh, alright.
If you have a large and complex system, it may be a waste of time to screw with it.
It's not like SO runs on some heavy-weight ORM; most of it is raw SQL and Dapper. It's pretty optimized. So you make some change that requires changing how you query for stuff, it tends to touch a lot of places.
chuckles at "touch places"
What happens when you run out of optimization tricks? SO is already less responsive and less full-featured than other SE sites.
4:13 AM
Buy moar servarz!
Remember, I'm not a dev - I'm not really qualified to talk specifics here. But if you've seen the public schema you gotta at least have a rough idea of what's involved here.
That's not to say soft-deleting users isn't ever gonna happen, or isn't ever gonna be worth trying...
but it's not trivial.
And if we did try it, then we get into all those messy legal & ethical headaches alluded to a few pages back
Ever tried to delete your account on Facebook?
Kiiiinda sketchy
@Shoggingthroughthesnow I did, a few times.
Facebook Deleters Anonymous
4:15 AM
@Unihedro Hay, I watch those guys!
@Sompuperoo fake
Why CVs on the question? It's fine.
Are you really… John Skeet's Girlfriend? — bjb568 6 secs ago
4:19 AM
@bjb568 John != Jon, stop trolling
@Behaviour depends on what you're talking about. Some stuff just isn't very optimized yet. Some likely just isn't worth scaling (going to the last page on Suggested Edit review history, etc) and could be disabled. Some might just need more/smarter rate-limiting to keep bots / rude users from abusing it.
@InfiniteSnowflakes Good point. Deleted comment.
But, I'm kinda talkin' out of my ass there - again, not a dev.
Does anybody feel like I'm over-starring?
wait, staring or starring
just stop staring
a star-ring :P
4:21 AM
Don't smile, it's not Christmas
I just realized I missed starring one of Shog's posts…
Fixed that.
@Shoggingthroughthesnow Close enough!
^ Shog has a botling too :P
Maybe not
4:32 AM
@Behaviour probably, his profile is spam-like
This is where having an actual mod would be useful. I have to think if it's spam or not. They would just click delete.
@bjb568 An outdated and too short answer in need of an edit?
Stars are above everything, so it's impossible to over-star.
4:46 AM
Question: If I create an account on drupal.SE to flag that ^^ as spam, and then delete my account, does the flag still exist?
@anorton The flag will be resolved (hopefully) within minutes, by deletion of the post. Then it does not matter what happens to your account.
But why delete it? I like Drupal. 241 helpful flags there.
@Behaviour But what if I delete my account before the flag is handled?
@Behaviour I try to keep my account count to a minimum... I don't like all the 100 rep association bonuses inflating my SE-wide rep that shows up in chat. (goofy reason, I know, but that's why...)
Ah, but Drupal is special. It's the honeypot for spam targeting SE.
Don't worry, nuked it for you.
4:50 AM
In that case, I'll create an account there. :)
@anorton I thought only 200+ rep accounts adds to the network total?
Hm, maybe I'm wrong. I know the rep leagues require 200+, but I thought I had noticed the network rep (that shows up in chat) increase once when I opened ~5 new site accounts in a day. :)
darn... I can't get flags when shog's here :/
@anorton SE chat used to add up all accounts, but since April 2013 it only adds those with 200+. I just checked on mine: the number (32.4K) matches the sum of 200+ accounts. And I have plenty of 101s.
Interesting how @bjb568's FR suddenly began getting upvotes after undeletion today.
Your answer is now not needed!
But it's a good idea.
5:09 AM
@Behaviour Good to know. Now I won't delete my 101s. Goodnight, all.
6:28 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] All-caps title: GPS POSITIONING METHODOLOGY by K ARIVOLI on aviation.stackexchange.com
@SmokeDetector ignore
@Behaviour Post ignored; alerts about it will not longer be posted.
(I submitted an edit, but who knows when it'll get approved.)
How's this about page?
(besides awful, as it probably is)
On most screens, two columns will not fit. How does it reflow?
The black-white contrast hits the eyes. Consider softening the black.
The line height is too small.
6:38 AM
@Behaviour The black is supposed to be black! Buy a crappier screen :P
Fixing line height…
"fixing language... issues" is too informal. "correcting".
"Users who break ... are corrected" is kind of threatening. How about "The rules of behavio**u**r are enforced by the community".
Do they need 50 rep to comment on answers to their questions?
k NO U
That orange sure is compressed (by imgur)
Well. Picking colours is not really my thing. Run a spellchecker on this: "privileges" and "receive" are misspelled.
I'd have it on by default if it wouldn't screw with my code.
WTH spellcheck insists internet is capitalized.
I think sublime implemented a custom one. OS X isn't that stupid.
6:56 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] Score of 51.1410: Dramatically improves the appearance of sun damaged skin on drupal.stackexchange.com
@hichris123 tp (yeah, I know; not confirmed as a robot)
Meh, too much blank space.
Not on my screen.
I actually think the layout works. But orange-for-emphasis does not.
Those words feel toned down instead of emphasized.
7:10 AM
Maybe increase their font weight?
Meh meh meh. I guess we have different design tastes.
I also hover over words like "meta", "editing", "noise" thinking they're links.
They will be :P
I need to create a help center.
Night, meta!
7:24 AM
It's yet to be seen which article is correct. While SO exists, it's "a repository". After DD overtakes it in popularity, driving SE out of business, it will become "the repository".
Chances are bleak, because SE has Shog and DD has bjb.
Never underestimate the power of responsive design and CSS transitions!
I never underestimate the power of inverse colour schemes and language trolling.
[ SmokeDetector ] Bad keyword in title: How To Lose Weight Quickly by Sallu Merzzu on drupal.stackexchange.com
[ SmokeDetector ] Score of 52.8822: How To Lose Weight Quickly on drupal.stackexchange.com
7:35 AM
@SmokeDetector tpu
@Behaviour Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad' and blacklisted user.
7:53 AM
we should make smokey post on drupal chatroom too....
@Braiam If the Drupal room agrees, we can.
FR being able to select Y site links are posted in X room
@Braiam Oh, we can. We already post spam in the room of EL&U and Ask Ubuntu.
... or do you mean that you want to choose a message in the Tavern to post in room X?
@ProgramFOX only ELU and AU spam or site wide?
@Braiam Only ELU and AU spam.
7:55 AM
> The last message was posted 5 days ago.
^ Drupal main room
Are there really no mods in their room?
aha, I found one
but looking at the room activity it's probably pointless to post spam alerts there
inb4 it gets autofrozen with all the mods stuck in the ice
@JanDvorak What I'm wondering: do main rooms for a site get frozen? The room for Home Automation, which was closed in private beta, was still not frozen after a month.
... and is still not frozen after 43 days.
7:59 AM
So, users can talk in a room of a dead site? Spooooky.
> The last message was posted 829 days ago.
Not frozen.
I never heard of this room.
I want to post something there, any suggestions?
8:03 AM
@Behaviour "Let's make the room inactive for 1000 days! Oh wait..."
in Mathematics Meta on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 11 secs ago, by Behaviour
Pardon the interruption, but what is this room for, again?
I think we have established that the main rooms do not freeze. :)
8:34 AM
[ SmokeDetector ] URL in title: How did chictopia.com, lookbook.nu or any other website with user generated content start up? by Franco on ux.stackexchange.com
inb4 the room gets freezed 60 days from now
8:51 AM
@bjb568 Halp! DevDoodle is down!
@SmokeDetector tpu
@ProgramFOX Registered as true positive: added title to Bayesian doctype 'bad' and blacklisted user.

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